I don’t understand how anyone could argue that Eldritch blast wasn’t that good when the research shows that everyone was dipping to get it. The reason they were dipping is because of the way cantrips scaled. Someone else made the point that imagine if two level dip in fighter gave you extra attack and 5th, 3 attacks at 11th and 4 attacks at 20th. I bet every martial would take that dip. Imagine if a 2 level dip in Paladin gave you not only smite, but improved smite at 11th. It doesn’t matter that you are multi classed only your character level matters. If we were just talking about Eldritch blast as a cantrip it would be fine. It’s the fact that it’s a multi hit cantrip and Agonizing blast applies to each bolt. I suppose instead of making Eldritch blast scale with warlock levels they could move agonizing blast to 5th level invocation and create a new invocation that adds Cha mod to any cantrip once a turn. Obviously tome pact and anyone who takes agonizing blast will swap it out at 5th
Personally, I agree with the point made previously that just because it’s strong doesn’t make it game breaking. They wanted to incentivize people to not just dip warlock clearly. I feel like they succeeded well with that, outside of Eldritch Blast only scaling with warlock level. They shouldn’t have done that because 1) it wasn’t actually game breaking, merely strong, 2) it was popular, and 3) I’d have at least liked a choice whether to dip or not. To the third point: now, I have more of a serious choice to not just dip warlock because of the amazing mechanics of the new class. I would still have at least liked the choice.
They stopped the dip for eldritch blast sure, but they didn't really give a reason to stick with or take warlock in the first place(outside blade dip). There will always be dips that are useful, enough cleric to get heavy armor, enough fighter to action surge for your gish, a couple levels of barbarian for rage etc. What a lot of classes need is a reason to stick with them for the long haul. Warlock does not have that as you are better off just being a wizard or sorcerer, barbarian does not have it, rogue probably not either, fighter only if you really want a 4th attack, generally just the full of pure casters have reasons to stick with a class. The issue is usually less a reason to dip into a class but more there are too many reasons to dip out.
I like some of the 1DND changes, like the customizable backgrounds and level 1 feats.
I'm almost okay with half casting Warlocks, providing they can properly integrate the pseudo-full casting. Invocations are a cool concept, some are very good, but most are not.
However, when it boils down to it, why would I give up a level 12 Hexblade capable of rolling almost 150 damage a round, for a regular bladelock that barely reaches a third of that?
Even if Hexblade ends up getting some new stuff it won't achieve the heights it used to.
It’s no supposed to. Your Hexblade is over tuned and dealing far too much reliable damage per turn.
Definitely true, I am imagining it's done via using a 1d10 Polearm, polearm master. Hex, Hexblade's Curse, 1 smite and life drinker. Getting up to three attacks a turn, 2d10+1d4+5*3+5*3+3d6+4*3+6d8. If you ignore the accuracy of an attack rolls, you're talking I believe, 103 damage... for level 12, if you have a +2 polearm, an extra 6 damage.
That is still missing another 41 damage, I can only imagine the additional 41 damage comes from the Opportunity Attack with another Eldritch Smite on top. But you're burnt out after this 1 round display, need a short rest before you can repeat. However, even without the Eldritch Smites, it's a lot of damage. 66 DPR, or 54 without Hexblade's Curse. Hexblade+Pact Blade is by far the strongest Warlock build... if ultra specialized it just gets insane and the passive DPR is enough to beat half of the dedicated martial characters.
Level 12 Hexblade: Great Weapon Master, Polearm Master, Glaive. Improved Pact Weapon. Thirsting Blade. Lifedrinker. Spell: Spirit Shroud. Ability: Hexblade's Curse. Variant Human to ensure you have GMW and PAM along with 20 charisma at level 12.
It does take two turns to bring it online because Hexblade's Curse and Spirit Shroud take two bonus actions, and then you'll be on turn three before you're making maximum damage with Polearm Master, which basically means it's a build for big boss fights, but it'll kill most things in those first two turns.
Damage is (potentially, neglecting hit rolls): 2(d10 + 1(IPW) + 5(LD) + 5(Cha) + 10(GWM)) + (d4 + 1(IPW) + 5(LD) + 5(Cha) + 10(GWM)). That's 2d10 + d4 + 63 as your baseline, which equates to 66 to 87 damage. Then we add Hexblade's Curse, which adds +4 damage per attack at level 12 for 12 damage, and Spirit Shroud which, cast with your level 5 slots, does 2d8 damage per hit for between 6 and 48 damage.
That gives a total damage range of 84 to 147 damage, and since Spirit Shroud has a duration of a minute you can maintain that for up to 10 rounds.
Of course at level 12 you do have two slots free to throw at Eldritch Smite, which do 6d8 damage with fifth level spell slots, for 6 to 48 damage each. Since you crit on 19 or 20 against your Hexblade's Cursed target they had the potential to be pretty big too.
That's without your DM giving you any magical equipment. You're doing it purely based on spell, feat, and invocation selection.
Other classes might be able to pump out more spike damage, like a Vengeance Paladin, but for sustained DPR over a longer combat I don't think there's much to touch the properly built Hexblade.
The class that really wanted to take a warlock dip was paladin (once hexblade existed) -- it gave you charisma scaling on your weapon attacks and a good ranged attack (which paladins generally lack). Hex isn't really a big component of that, though.
The Hex change is more related to the reduce max dealt damage per round that is being applied to all One D&D rules, like with Divine Smite, and all others. I think is better that if you want to deal more damage, spend more resources instead everything auto-scaling from level 1-2.
Also, EB is better than others cantrips, so enclosing it to the Warlock level seems fine to me. If you want to deal range damage with cantrips, well get fire bolt and be like any other, including full-casters. Then the advantage of EB is for pure Warlock only.
Also agree that the main issue currently are the "charisma fighters". Even if using your casting ability score is good for Warlock, not so good for others to get it so easily. But how the whole mechanics are made, seems hard to fix it.
Also agree that the main issue currently are the "charisma fighters". Even if using your casting ability score is good for Warlock, not so good for others to get it so easily. But how the whole mechanics are made, seems hard to fix it.
They need to fix multi classing in general. My suggestion is to tag certain abilities as core class abilities, sort of like armor in 5e and how that does not cross train over the same, and its not like you double your skills or saves, some things just don't come over. Personally I think the class you started in works for the skills, but everything else I'd tie it to level. You can't use warlock core class abilities and pact boons would be one of those, concentration free hunters mark on ranger another, your saves another, unless your class level in that class exceeds the level in your other classes. So you want pact of the blade, well your warlock level better be your highest level. This would basically stop all dips cold.
I don’t understand how anyone could argue that Eldritch blast wasn’t that good when the research shows that everyone was dipping to get it. The reason they were dipping is because of the way cantrips scaled. Someone else made the point that imagine if two level dip in fighter gave you extra attack and 5th, 3 attacks at 11th and 4 attacks at 20th. I bet every martial would take that dip. Imagine if a 2 level dip in Paladin gave you not only smite, but improved smite at 11th. It doesn’t matter that you are multi classed only your character level matters. If we were just talking about Eldritch blast as a cantrip it would be fine. It’s the fact that it’s a multi hit cantrip and Agonizing blast applies to each bolt. I suppose instead of making Eldritch blast scale with warlock levels they could move agonizing blast to 5th level invocation and create a new invocation that adds Cha mod to any cantrip once a turn. Obviously tome pact and anyone who takes agonizing blast will swap it out at 5th
Because it was good, but it feels a lot of people are saying it was game breaking good; and it came with the downside of delaying your spell progression by 2 levels. Spells like Hypnotic Pattern, Wall of Force, Mass Suggestion, etc. were the main powerhouse spells for casters; control had a lot more impact than blasting. Now EB+AB was a strong blasting option that was strong enough to make it worth the 2 levels of delayed progression.
Ironically though, the changes to Pact of the Blade basically is probably going to make it a very popular dip for gish builds as it has the main aspect of Hexblade that people dipped into it for.
I don’t understand how anyone could argue that Eldritch blast wasn’t that good when the research shows that everyone was dipping to get it. The reason they were dipping is because of the way cantrips scaled. Someone else made the point that imagine if two level dip in fighter gave you extra attack and 5th, 3 attacks at 11th and 4 attacks at 20th. I bet every martial would take that dip. Imagine if a 2 level dip in Paladin gave you not only smite, but improved smite at 11th. It doesn’t matter that you are multi classed only your character level matters. If we were just talking about Eldritch blast as a cantrip it would be fine. It’s the fact that it’s a multi hit cantrip and Agonizing blast applies to each bolt. I suppose instead of making Eldritch blast scale with warlock levels they could move agonizing blast to 5th level invocation and create a new invocation that adds Cha mod to any cantrip once a turn. Obviously tome pact and anyone who takes agonizing blast will swap it out at 5th
Because it was good, but it feels a lot of people are saying it was game breaking good; and it came with the downside of delaying your spell progression by 2 levels. Spells like Hypnotic Pattern, Wall of Force, Mass Suggestion, etc. were the main powerhouse spells for casters; control had a lot more impact than blasting. Now EB+AB was a strong blasting option that was strong enough to make it worth the 2 levels of delayed progression.
Ironically though, the changes to Pact of the Blade basically is probably going to make it a very popular dip for gish builds as it has the main aspect of Hexblade that people dipped into it for.
I think a lot of people took it for power builds because they listened to the wrong people. Power Builds always work based on a set of assumptions and if those assumptions don't happen at your table, the power build likely wont work for you. For most tables given what the polls are saying with number of encounters per day I'd suggest EB+AB was a bad call for a sorcerer build. They are not likely to run out of big spells that out pace EB in damage, and the difference in damage with it quickened vs firebolt is not large enough given how few of those you can pull off per day for the step down in damage losing another fireball or whatever. If you have enough encounters where your spells are depleted either way and you need to rely on cantrips a lot its probably a good choice, but it seems like that is not a common occurrence outside levels 1-5.
Every martial class can take Magic Initiate: Primal at level 1 for the Shillelagh cantrip, which gives casting stat based melee with a d8 weapon, which is 99% of what Blade Pact gets, without any need to multiclass.
Warlock doesn't give them anything else they'd need.
Every martial class can take Magic Initiate: Primal at level 1 for the Shillelagh cantrip, which gives casting stat based melee with a d8 weapon, which is 99% of what Blade Pact gets, without any need to multiclass.
Warlock doesn't give them anything else they'd need.
Depends on where weapon masteries got for the classes that would want chr/wis based attack stat. Being stuck with the stick mastery might not swing it for you.
Every martial class can take Magic Initiate: Primal at level 1 for the Shillelagh cantrip, which gives casting stat based melee with a d8 weapon, which is 99% of what Blade Pact gets, without any need to multiclass.
While true, I think a lot of paladins would prefer to not to use a club or staff. Bladelock still won't let you use a great weapon, but it does let you use a longsword.
Level 12 Hexblade: Great Weapon Master, Polearm Master, Glaive. Improved Pact Weapon. Thirsting Blade. Lifedrinker. Spell: Spirit Shroud. Ability: Hexblade's Curse. Variant Human to ensure you have GMW and PAM along with 20 charisma at level 12.
It does take two turns to bring it online because Hexblade's Curse and Spirit Shroud take two bonus actions, and then you'll be on turn three before you're making maximum damage with Polearm Master, which basically means it's a build for big boss fights, but it'll kill most things in those first two turns.
Damage is (potentially, neglecting hit rolls): 2(d10 + 1(IPW) + 5(LD) + 5(Cha) + 10(GWM)) + (d4 + 1(IPW) + 5(LD) + 5(Cha) + 10(GWM)). That's 2d10 + d4 + 63 as your baseline, which equates to 66 to 87 damage. Then we add Hexblade's Curse, which adds +4 damage per attack at level 12 for 12 damage, and Spirit Shroud which, cast with your level 5 slots, does 2d8 damage per hit for between 6 and 48 damage.
That gives a total damage range of 84 to 147 damage, and since Spirit Shroud has a duration of a minute you can maintain that for up to 10 rounds.
Of course at level 12 you do have two slots free to throw at Eldritch Smite, which do 6d8 damage with fifth level spell slots, for 6 to 48 damage each. Since you crit on 19 or 20 against your Hexblade's Cursed target they had the potential to be pretty big too.
That's without your DM giving you any magical equipment. You're doing it purely based on spell, feat, and invocation selection.
Other classes might be able to pump out more spike damage, like a Vengeance Paladin, but for sustained DPR over a longer combat I don't think there's much to touch the properly built Hexblade.
Spirit Shroud instead of hex would add a fair bit of damage. Theoretically it's a lot of damage, if you hit which is less likely but the crits are some what of a consideration too. Is it actually worth using Great Weapon Master tho? Using a fairly chance to hit on attack of 65%...
You're actually losing 2.375 damage on your normal (non-bonus action) attacks. The potential to upgrade the bonus action to a 1d10 instead of a 1d4 is being worse then offset by using Great Weapon master in this way. You'd need to ensure you get advantage, which admittedly can be done multiple ways (including prone from Eldritch Smite), but even with advantage, I believe GWM is only edging out not using GWM by less then 0.35 damage a hit. When you're not using your bonus action else where, the increased crit chance to switch a 1d4 in favour of a 1d10 only results in around a 0.57 DPR increase.
I feel like Sentinel, Slasher or Piercer are just much better choices. Sentinel and Slasher are obviously not damaged focused but the effects they add can significantly limit another creatures actions.
By switching to a Pike, you can choose piercer which is going to be an extra damage die on crit and a damage die reroll, I feel like that is going to out do GWM fairly significantly.
Every martial class can take Magic Initiate: Primal at level 1 for the Shillelagh cantrip, which gives casting stat based melee with a d8 weapon, which is 99% of what Blade Pact gets, without any need to multiclass.
Warlock doesn't give them anything else they'd need.
That's an additional bonus action you need to use at the start of every combat, it's also still a d8, compared to the d10 you can get with a versatile weapon. While also being a bonus action, you get Hex from Warlock which is then adding an additional 1d6 per turn, or you can grab a spell like shield and twice a day get a +5 bonus to AC. You can also use Pact Weapon with ranged magical weapons, the only restriction is the Heavy Property. On top of that you get 2 cantrips, you can pick-up some utility spells, or pick-up a normal damage cantrip that still scales with character level, like fire bolt or shocking grasp.
Every martial class can take Magic Initiate: Primal at level 1 for the Shillelagh cantrip, which gives casting stat based melee with a d8 weapon, which is 99% of what Blade Pact gets, without any need to multiclass.
Warlock doesn't give them anything else they'd need.
Sound interesting but it has the drawback of stuck at quarterstaff weapon only. Then seems more balanced than getting 1 level of Blade Pact.
At level 12 the Hexblade would be +10 to hit, or +5 with GWM.
AC 10: 1.0 or 0.75
AC 11: 0.95 or 0.7
AC 12: 0.90 or 0.65
AC 13: 0.85 or 0.60
AC 15: 0.75 or 0.5
AC 20: 0.5 or 0.25
So basically whatever the probability of hitting with normal attacks, it's - 0.25 when you activate GWM.
If we take averages:
avd10 + 21 + av2d8 = 35.
avd10 + 11 + av2d8 = 25.
So at what AC does it make sense to drop GWM? i.e. at what point do you gain more damage from hitting than you do from the bonus damage?
AC 10: 25, 26.25
AC 12: 22.5, 22.75
AC 13: 21.25, 21
AC 15 18.75, 17.5
Sheesh, at the low low AC of 13 it's better to attack without GWM activated. That's kind of a disappointment.
I guess the high damage potential of Spirit Shroud skews the results. If it was a character that didn't have the same kind of damage boost it'd favor GWM more.
On Shillelagh, it's a cantrip. You just make sure it's cast every minute you're in hostile territory.
Sheesh, at the low low AC of 13 it's better to attack without GWM activated. That's kind of a disappointment.
That is even lower than I was thinking, and yea, when you have a lot of other damage modifiers adding a lot of damage to an attack the +10 -5 quickly can become a negative, more so on GWM, SS removes a lot of issues for ranged characters that allowed them to get a very high attack, making the -5 to attack much less meaningful. Which is likely why it was nerfed in the the Expert Classes UA.
The GWM of that UA would be great, since the critical potential can mean a lot of hitting two targets for the price of one, but you'd need to get a martial weapon proficiency from somewhere...
Level 12 Hexblade: Great Weapon Master, Polearm Master, Glaive. Improved Pact Weapon. Thirsting Blade. Lifedrinker. Spell: Spirit Shroud. Ability: Hexblade's Curse. Variant Human to ensure you have GMW and PAM along with 20 charisma at level 12.
It does take two turns to bring it online because Hexblade's Curse and Spirit Shroud take two bonus actions, and then you'll be on turn three before you're making maximum damage with Polearm Master, which basically means it's a build for big boss fights, but it'll kill most things in those first two turns.
Damage is (potentially, neglecting hit rolls): 2(d10 + 1(IPW) + 5(LD) + 5(Cha) + 10(GWM)) + (d4 + 1(IPW) + 5(LD) + 5(Cha) + 10(GWM)). That's 2d10 + d4 + 63 as your baseline, which equates to 66 to 87 damage. Then we add Hexblade's Curse, which adds +4 damage per attack at level 12 for 12 damage, and Spirit Shroud which, cast with your level 5 slots, does 2d8 damage per hit for between 6 and 48 damage.
That gives a total damage range of 84 to 147 damage, and since Spirit Shroud has a duration of a minute you can maintain that for up to 10 rounds.
Of course at level 12 you do have two slots free to throw at Eldritch Smite, which do 6d8 damage with fifth level spell slots, for 6 to 48 damage each. Since you crit on 19 or 20 against your Hexblade's Cursed target they had the potential to be pretty big too.
That's without your DM giving you any magical equipment. You're doing it purely based on spell, feat, and invocation selection.
Other classes might be able to pump out more spike damage, like a Vengeance Paladin, but for sustained DPR over a longer combat I don't think there's much to touch the properly built Hexblade.
Now the GWM feat has been revised, it is on the Expertise classes UA, it inflicts your proficiency bonus as extra damage and only once per turn, also Lifedrinker is 1d6, so the average is 3.5 instead 5 (or your CHA). And, if the d4 part is for the PAM, it uses the bonus action, so you can only do it once per turn, as the extra attacks don't get extra bonus actions.
Total: 62. It is even a lot. Can later add some extra spell.
We can notice that most of the damage are the fixed ones, and that's why they are removing them or limit to apply only once per turn. So probably the classic Hexblade will be removed or its Curse modified. If we remove the Curse amount are 15.
Obviously must be revised, all those high fixed damages must be gone or limited to once per turn but for the ability score one.
Also looking at the Shillelagh cantrip, I miss adding the ability score to the damage of all cantrips. If required their damage rolls should be revised (or not, as their damage scales for dice but you can only cast one per turn) but adding the ability score, as that fixed damage is important. Using your action and rolling 1-2 is really disappointing. It would be like you only apply the base ammunition damage to range weapons. If they add your ability score, why not for cantrips?
Hexblade's Curse is proficiency damage per attack, so +4 at level 12.
The proposed Pact of the Blade doesn't get heavy weapons, so there're no polearms to get polearm master with. That might change for Hexblade or the Improved Pact Weapon invocation, but we shouldn't rely on it. Double-bladed scimitar is a non-heavy two-handed weapon that weaponizes the bonus attack, which makes it the best option for Blade Pact Warlocks, but it is an Eberron weapon so it'd need your DM's approval.
Looking at that, I'd add some options to HexBlade like the heavy weapons, but would not add more damage, at least at base and applied to all attacks. With the new behavior those kind of things unbalance the game. Take a look at the Barbarian that is supposed to be the damage dealer, the Rage Damage is applied to all attacks, but is some low and progress slowly.
Instead giving damage "for free", it sounds better to give options, like getting more type of weapons, and weapon mastery, as some of them add (a bit of) damage (but fits in game balance) and allow other interesting features.
One thing they definitely should fix is about that seems the most important thing are the number of attacks, to sum all those fixed and/or repeatable damages, instead i.e. focusing in a powerful attack with an impressive weapon. More dice and less fixed.
The proposed Pact of the Blade doesn't get heavy weapons, so there're no polearms to get polearm master with. That might change for Hexblade or the Improved Pact Weapon invocation, but we shouldn't rely on it.
I noticed this before, I actually think Pact of the Blade should be switched around, instead of making you proficient with a weapon that Pact of the Blade should only be usable with weapons that you are already proficient with and then it should add proficiency with all one-handed or versatile martial melee weapons. So if you want Hexblade with Polearms or longbows, it's not impossible to get with either a level dip or a feat.
Sheesh, at the low low AC of 13 it's better to attack without GWM activated. That's kind of a disappointment.
That is even lower than I was thinking, and yea, when you have a lot of other damage modifiers adding a lot of damage to an attack the +10 -5 quickly can become a negative, more so on GWM, SS removes a lot of issues for ranged characters that allowed them to get a very high attack, making the -5 to attack much less meaningful. Which is likely why it was nerfed in the the Expert Classes UA.
The GWM of that UA would be great, since the critical potential can mean a lot of hitting two targets for the price of one, but you'd need to get a martial weapon proficiency from somewhere...
On Shillelagh, it's a cantrip. You just make sure it's cast every minute you're in hostile territory.
I feel a lot of DMs would point out it has a vocal component and so it breaks stealth every minute, or more easily gives away the party position.
I want official rules like in Pathfinder for continuously casting cantrips or ritual spells. Right now I've HBed that continuously casting spells means you automatically fail any ability check you might be required to make at the same time - e.g. perception / stealth. But it would be nice to have something official.
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I don’t understand how anyone could argue that Eldritch blast wasn’t that good when the research shows that everyone was dipping to get it. The reason they were dipping is because of the way cantrips scaled. Someone else made the point that imagine if two level dip in fighter gave you extra attack and 5th, 3 attacks at 11th and 4 attacks at 20th. I bet every martial would take that dip. Imagine if a 2 level dip in Paladin gave you not only smite, but improved smite at 11th. It doesn’t matter that you are multi classed only your character level matters. If we were just talking about Eldritch blast as a cantrip it would be fine. It’s the fact that it’s a multi hit cantrip and Agonizing blast applies to each bolt.
I suppose instead of making Eldritch blast scale with warlock levels they could move agonizing blast to 5th level invocation and create a new invocation that adds Cha mod to any cantrip once a turn. Obviously tome pact and anyone who takes agonizing blast will swap it out at 5th
They stopped the dip for eldritch blast sure, but they didn't really give a reason to stick with or take warlock in the first place(outside blade dip). There will always be dips that are useful, enough cleric to get heavy armor, enough fighter to action surge for your gish, a couple levels of barbarian for rage etc. What a lot of classes need is a reason to stick with them for the long haul. Warlock does not have that as you are better off just being a wizard or sorcerer, barbarian does not have it, rogue probably not either, fighter only if you really want a 4th attack, generally just the full of pure casters have reasons to stick with a class. The issue is usually less a reason to dip into a class but more there are too many reasons to dip out.
Level 12 Hexblade: Great Weapon Master, Polearm Master, Glaive. Improved Pact Weapon. Thirsting Blade. Lifedrinker. Spell: Spirit Shroud. Ability: Hexblade's Curse. Variant Human to ensure you have GMW and PAM along with 20 charisma at level 12.
It does take two turns to bring it online because Hexblade's Curse and Spirit Shroud take two bonus actions, and then you'll be on turn three before you're making maximum damage with Polearm Master, which basically means it's a build for big boss fights, but it'll kill most things in those first two turns.
Damage is (potentially, neglecting hit rolls): 2(d10 + 1(IPW) + 5(LD) + 5(Cha) + 10(GWM)) + (d4 + 1(IPW) + 5(LD) + 5(Cha) + 10(GWM)). That's 2d10 + d4 + 63 as your baseline, which equates to 66 to 87 damage. Then we add Hexblade's Curse, which adds +4 damage per attack at level 12 for 12 damage, and Spirit Shroud which, cast with your level 5 slots, does 2d8 damage per hit for between 6 and 48 damage.
That gives a total damage range of 84 to 147 damage, and since Spirit Shroud has a duration of a minute you can maintain that for up to 10 rounds.
Of course at level 12 you do have two slots free to throw at Eldritch Smite, which do 6d8 damage with fifth level spell slots, for 6 to 48 damage each. Since you crit on 19 or 20 against your Hexblade's Cursed target they had the potential to be pretty big too.
That's without your DM giving you any magical equipment. You're doing it purely based on spell, feat, and invocation selection.
Other classes might be able to pump out more spike damage, like a Vengeance Paladin, but for sustained DPR over a longer combat I don't think there's much to touch the properly built Hexblade.
The class that really wanted to take a warlock dip was paladin (once hexblade existed) -- it gave you charisma scaling on your weapon attacks and a good ranged attack (which paladins generally lack). Hex isn't really a big component of that, though.
The Hex change is more related to the reduce max dealt damage per round that is being applied to all One D&D rules, like with Divine Smite, and all others. I think is better that if you want to deal more damage, spend more resources instead everything auto-scaling from level 1-2.
Also, EB is better than others cantrips, so enclosing it to the Warlock level seems fine to me. If you want to deal range damage with cantrips, well get fire bolt and be like any other, including full-casters. Then the advantage of EB is for pure Warlock only.
Also agree that the main issue currently are the "charisma fighters". Even if using your casting ability score is good for Warlock, not so good for others to get it so easily. But how the whole mechanics are made, seems hard to fix it.
They need to fix multi classing in general. My suggestion is to tag certain abilities as core class abilities, sort of like armor in 5e and how that does not cross train over the same, and its not like you double your skills or saves, some things just don't come over. Personally I think the class you started in works for the skills, but everything else I'd tie it to level. You can't use warlock core class abilities and pact boons would be one of those, concentration free hunters mark on ranger another, your saves another, unless your class level in that class exceeds the level in your other classes. So you want pact of the blade, well your warlock level better be your highest level. This would basically stop all dips cold.
Because it was good, but it feels a lot of people are saying it was game breaking good; and it came with the downside of delaying your spell progression by 2 levels. Spells like Hypnotic Pattern, Wall of Force, Mass Suggestion, etc. were the main powerhouse spells for casters; control had a lot more impact than blasting. Now EB+AB was a strong blasting option that was strong enough to make it worth the 2 levels of delayed progression.
Ironically though, the changes to Pact of the Blade basically is probably going to make it a very popular dip for gish builds as it has the main aspect of Hexblade that people dipped into it for.
I think a lot of people took it for power builds because they listened to the wrong people. Power Builds always work based on a set of assumptions and if those assumptions don't happen at your table, the power build likely wont work for you. For most tables given what the polls are saying with number of encounters per day I'd suggest EB+AB was a bad call for a sorcerer build. They are not likely to run out of big spells that out pace EB in damage, and the difference in damage with it quickened vs firebolt is not large enough given how few of those you can pull off per day for the step down in damage losing another fireball or whatever. If you have enough encounters where your spells are depleted either way and you need to rely on cantrips a lot its probably a good choice, but it seems like that is not a common occurrence outside levels 1-5.
Every martial class can take Magic Initiate: Primal at level 1 for the Shillelagh cantrip, which gives casting stat based melee with a d8 weapon, which is 99% of what Blade Pact gets, without any need to multiclass.
Warlock doesn't give them anything else they'd need.
Depends on where weapon masteries got for the classes that would want chr/wis based attack stat. Being stuck with the stick mastery might not swing it for you.
While true, I think a lot of paladins would prefer to not to use a club or staff. Bladelock still won't let you use a great weapon, but it does let you use a longsword.
Spirit Shroud instead of hex would add a fair bit of damage. Theoretically it's a lot of damage, if you hit which is less likely but the crits are some what of a consideration too. Is it actually worth using Great Weapon Master tho? Using a fairly chance to hit on attack of 65%...
( 1d10 + 1 IPW +5 LD + 5 CHA + 2d8 ) * 0.65 + ( 1d10 + 2d8 ) * 0.1 = 18.025
( 1d10 + 1 IPW + 5 LD + 5 CHA + 2d8 + 10 ) * 0.4 + ( 1d10 + 2d8 ) * 0.1 = 15.65
You're actually losing 2.375 damage on your normal (non-bonus action) attacks. The potential to upgrade the bonus action to a 1d10 instead of a 1d4 is being worse then offset by using Great Weapon master in this way. You'd need to ensure you get advantage, which admittedly can be done multiple ways (including prone from Eldritch Smite), but even with advantage, I believe GWM is only edging out not using GWM by less then 0.35 damage a hit. When you're not using your bonus action else where, the increased crit chance to switch a 1d4 in favour of a 1d10 only results in around a 0.57 DPR increase.
I feel like Sentinel, Slasher or Piercer are just much better choices. Sentinel and Slasher are obviously not damaged focused but the effects they add can significantly limit another creatures actions.
By switching to a Pike, you can choose piercer which is going to be an extra damage die on crit and a damage die reroll, I feel like that is going to out do GWM fairly significantly.
That's an additional bonus action you need to use at the start of every combat, it's also still a d8, compared to the d10 you can get with a versatile weapon. While also being a bonus action, you get Hex from Warlock which is then adding an additional 1d6 per turn, or you can grab a spell like shield and twice a day get a +5 bonus to AC. You can also use Pact Weapon with ranged magical weapons, the only restriction is the Heavy Property. On top of that you get 2 cantrips, you can pick-up some utility spells, or pick-up a normal damage cantrip that still scales with character level, like fire bolt or shocking grasp.
Sound interesting but it has the drawback of stuck at quarterstaff weapon only. Then seems more balanced than getting 1 level of Blade Pact.
At level 12 the Hexblade would be +10 to hit, or +5 with GWM.
AC 10: 1.0 or 0.75
AC 11: 0.95 or 0.7
AC 12: 0.90 or 0.65
AC 13: 0.85 or 0.60
AC 15: 0.75 or 0.5
AC 20: 0.5 or 0.25
So basically whatever the probability of hitting with normal attacks, it's - 0.25 when you activate GWM.
If we take averages:
avd10 + 21 + av2d8 = 35.
avd10 + 11 + av2d8 = 25.
So at what AC does it make sense to drop GWM? i.e. at what point do you gain more damage from hitting than you do from the bonus damage?
AC 10: 25, 26.25
AC 12: 22.5, 22.75
AC 13: 21.25, 21
AC 15 18.75, 17.5
Sheesh, at the low low AC of 13 it's better to attack without GWM activated. That's kind of a disappointment.
I guess the high damage potential of Spirit Shroud skews the results. If it was a character that didn't have the same kind of damage boost it'd favor GWM more.
On Shillelagh, it's a cantrip. You just make sure it's cast every minute you're in hostile territory.
That is even lower than I was thinking, and yea, when you have a lot of other damage modifiers adding a lot of damage to an attack the +10 -5 quickly can become a negative, more so on GWM, SS removes a lot of issues for ranged characters that allowed them to get a very high attack, making the -5 to attack much less meaningful. Which is likely why it was nerfed in the the Expert Classes UA.
The GWM of that UA would be great, since the critical potential can mean a lot of hitting two targets for the price of one, but you'd need to get a martial weapon proficiency from somewhere...
I feel a lot of DMs would point out it has a vocal component and so it breaks stealth every minute, or more easily gives away the party position.
Now the GWM feat has been revised, it is on the Expertise classes UA, it inflicts your proficiency bonus as extra damage and only once per turn, also Lifedrinker is 1d6, so the average is 3.5 instead 5 (or your CHA). And, if the d4 part is for the PAM, it uses the bonus action, so you can only do it once per turn, as the extra attacks don't get extra bonus actions.
Now the sum would be, taken averages from dice:
Attack: 5.5(d10) + 1(IPW) + 3.5(LD) + 5(CHA) + 5(HexCurse) + 4(GWM) = 24
Attack: 5.5(d10) + 1(IPW) + 3.5(LD) + 5(CHA) + 5(HexCurse) = 20
Attack: 2.5(d4) + 1(IPW) + 3.5(LD) + 5(CHA) + 5(HexCurse) = 18
Total: 62. It is even a lot. Can later add some extra spell.
We can notice that most of the damage are the fixed ones, and that's why they are removing them or limit to apply only once per turn. So probably the classic Hexblade will be removed or its Curse modified. If we remove the Curse amount are 15.
Obviously must be revised, all those high fixed damages must be gone or limited to once per turn but for the ability score one.
Also looking at the Shillelagh cantrip, I miss adding the ability score to the damage of all cantrips. If required their damage rolls should be revised (or not, as their damage scales for dice but you can only cast one per turn) but adding the ability score, as that fixed damage is important. Using your action and rolling 1-2 is really disappointing. It would be like you only apply the base ammunition damage to range weapons. If they add your ability score, why not for cantrips?
Hexblade's Curse is proficiency damage per attack, so +4 at level 12.
The proposed Pact of the Blade doesn't get heavy weapons, so there're no polearms to get polearm master with. That might change for Hexblade or the Improved Pact Weapon invocation, but we shouldn't rely on it. Double-bladed scimitar is a non-heavy two-handed weapon that weaponizes the bonus attack, which makes it the best option for Blade Pact Warlocks, but it is an Eberron weapon so it'd need your DM's approval.
At level 9, with Spirit Shroud, and Lifedrinker:
2(2d4 + 5 + d6 + d8) + d4 + 5 + d6 + d8. A d4 averages 2.5, d6 3.5, d8 4.5.
2(5 + 5 + 3.5 + 4.5) + 2.5 + 5 + 3.5 + 4.5 = 53.5
If you add Hexblade's Curse (+ 4) and Improved Pact Weapon (+1) that's an additional +15 for an average of 68.5.
That's... actually not terrible.
Looking at that, I'd add some options to HexBlade like the heavy weapons, but would not add more damage, at least at base and applied to all attacks. With the new behavior those kind of things unbalance the game. Take a look at the Barbarian that is supposed to be the damage dealer, the Rage Damage is applied to all attacks, but is some low and progress slowly.
Instead giving damage "for free", it sounds better to give options, like getting more type of weapons, and weapon mastery, as some of them add (a bit of) damage (but fits in game balance) and allow other interesting features.
One thing they definitely should fix is about that seems the most important thing are the number of attacks, to sum all those fixed and/or repeatable damages, instead i.e. focusing in a powerful attack with an impressive weapon. More dice and less fixed.
I noticed this before, I actually think Pact of the Blade should be switched around, instead of making you proficient with a weapon that Pact of the Blade should only be usable with weapons that you are already proficient with and then it should add proficiency with all one-handed or versatile martial melee weapons. So if you want Hexblade with Polearms or longbows, it's not impossible to get with either a level dip or a feat.
I want official rules like in Pathfinder for continuously casting cantrips or ritual spells. Right now I've HBed that continuously casting spells means you automatically fail any ability check you might be required to make at the same time - e.g. perception / stealth. But it would be nice to have something official.