No, it doesn't. If your fireball gets countered, it doesn't prevent you from casting shield in the same round
That's just action economy. If you have quicken spell, you can cast pact weapon twice in one round.
It's absurd, is what it is
Pact cantrips are a dumb concept
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Don't agree. This can effectively remove the warlock from combat for two entire rounds.
Round 1: Warlock casts pact weapon. Enemy caster counterspells. Warlock's contribution to the fight: nothing, and the enemy caster hasn't used an action to nullify the warlock.
Round 2: Warlock casts pact weapon again. It requires an action. Warlock again contributes nothing to the fight.
So counterspell can easily remove one player character from the fight until the third round of combat. If the party only has four characters - or fewer! - this isn't insignificant.
I really don't understand your logic here. How is this any different than if you were a tomelock and they counterspelled your Eldritch Blast? Or if instead of countering your cantrip, they countered your cleric buddy's Spirit Guardians, or your Fireball? Are they also removed from combat for a round? Of course counterspell is going to nullify someone's action in the party, that's what it does. No matter what you or anyone else cast, somebody would be losing an action in that scenario, bladelock is not under some kind of unique disadvantage here.
Well, first, because up until now, the pact weapon wasn't something that could be dispelled. That in and of itself is a big change.
Second, because I'll say again: treating warlocks as eldritch blast machines is boring and IMNSHO lacks imagination. Bladelocks are meant to be frontline fighters; if a warlock is within reach of a hostile but suddenly lacks an actual weapon to hit that enemy with, they either have to use a ranged spell attack at disadvantage and/or retreat (and risk an opportunity attack unless they burn an action using Disengage which means: no eldritch blast).
A warlock is not an EB machine just as a Paladin is not a smite machine. But EB is a major part of their kit and balance, just like smite is for paladin.
No, it doesn't. If your fireball gets countered, it doesn't prevent you from casting shield in the same round
That's just action economy. If you have quicken spell, you can cast pact weapon twice in one round.
It's absurd, is what it is
Pact cantrips are a dumb concept
They are no more dumb than any other spell or cantrip. You example of how someone would get rid of a pact weapon has been proven invalid. Counterspell doesn’t work because warlocks are not giving up an action to cast the cantrip during combat. They are coming to the fight with the weapon. Casting dispel magic to get rid of a cantrip is a major waste and the rest of the party will be happy as they kill the idiot villain who wasted a turn dispelling a weapon. There are plenty of things to gripe about, but pact cantrips isn’t even worth your energy.
No, it doesn't. If your fireball gets countered, it doesn't prevent you from casting shield in the same round
That's just action economy. If you have quicken spell, you can cast pact weapon twice in one round.
It's absurd, is what it is
Pact cantrips are a dumb concept
They are no more dumb than any other spell or cantrip. You example of how someone would get rid of a pact weapon has been proven invalid. Counterspell doesn’t work because warlocks are not giving up an action to cast the cantrip during combat. They are coming to the fight with the weapon. Casting dispel magic to get rid of a cantrip is a major waste and the rest of the party will be happy as they kill the idiot villain who wasted a turn dispelling a weapon. There are plenty of things to gripe about, but pact cantrips isn’t even worth your energy.
Eh, the whole class ability as spell thing is pretty dumb. It doesn't break the game or anything, but its going to have weird hickups due to spell logic, the scribe spell thing on wizard is a good example.
Eh, the whole class ability as spell thing is pretty dumb. It doesn't break the game or anything, but its going to have weird hickups due to spell logic, the scribe spell thing on wizard is a good example.
It's a kinda odd decision, but it's mostly irrelevant.
No, it doesn't. If your fireball gets countered, it doesn't prevent you from casting shield in the same round
That's just action economy. If you have quicken spell, you can cast pact weapon twice in one round.
It's absurd, is what it is
Pact cantrips are a dumb concept
They are no more dumb than any other spell or cantrip. You example of how someone would get rid of a pact weapon has been proven invalid. Counterspell doesn’t work because warlocks are not giving up an action to cast the cantrip during combat. They are coming to the fight with the weapon. Casting dispel magic to get rid of a cantrip is a major waste and the rest of the party will be happy as they kill the idiot villain who wasted a turn dispelling a weapon. There are plenty of things to gripe about, but pact cantrips isn’t even worth your energy.
Eh, the whole class ability as spell thing is pretty dumb. It doesn't break the game or anything, but its going to have weird hickups due to spell logic, the scribe spell thing on wizard is a good example.
Actually the logic of scribe spell is pretty simple. It the question of which came first the chicken or the egg. There are three possible answers.
1. Magic already existed and natural casters where casting like crazy. The first wizard through research and trial and error figured out a way to write Magic down. Then he taught others how to write it down.
2. Someone researching the universe stumbled across the ability to scribe spells by accident by placing certain runes and old text together. One they had that they could cast magic, making them the first wizard.
3. Probably the one that makes the most sense for Dnd lore. When the God of magic gave mortals magic she gave those with the mind to learn arcane magic Scribe Spell. While many were gifted in magic innately those with the mind to attempt to understand it were given this great boon. They taught it to the next generation and so on. Now most wizards don’t look at the God of Magic as the originator, but believe either 1 or 2.
No, it doesn't. If your fireball gets countered, it doesn't prevent you from casting shield in the same round
That's just action economy. If you have quicken spell, you can cast pact weapon twice in one round.
It's absurd, is what it is
Pact cantrips are a dumb concept
They are no more dumb than any other spell or cantrip. You example of how someone would get rid of a pact weapon has been proven invalid.
And what example is that? Or are you confusing me with someone else?
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The new Pact Weapon is disappointing because you can't shunt a magical weapon you've bonded with into the extradimensional space anymore. I don't understand why they changed that.
Personally I'd like them to change it so you can make one weapon attack with the weapon with the same action you use to summon it.
No, it doesn't. If your fireball gets countered, it doesn't prevent you from casting shield in the same round
That's just action economy. If you have quicken spell, you can cast pact weapon twice in one round.
It's absurd, is what it is
Pact cantrips are a dumb concept
They are no more dumb than any other spell or cantrip. You example of how someone would get rid of a pact weapon has been proven invalid. Counterspell doesn’t work because warlocks are not giving up an action to cast the cantrip during combat. They are coming to the fight with the weapon. Casting dispel magic to get rid of a cantrip is a major waste and the rest of the party will be happy as they kill the idiot villain who wasted a turn dispelling a weapon. There are plenty of things to gripe about, but pact cantrips isn’t even worth your energy.
Eh, the whole class ability as spell thing is pretty dumb. It doesn't break the game or anything, but its going to have weird hickups due to spell logic, the scribe spell thing on wizard is a good example.
Actually the logic of scribe spell is pretty simple. It the question of which came first the chicken or the egg. There are three possible answers.
1. Magic already existed and natural casters where casting like crazy. The first wizard through research and trial and error figured out a way to write Magic down. Then he taught others how to write it down.
2. Someone researching the universe stumbled across the ability to scribe spells by accident by placing certain runes and old text together. One they had that they could cast magic, making them the first wizard.
3. Probably the one that makes the most sense for Dnd lore. When the God of magic gave mortals magic she gave those with the mind to learn arcane magic Scribe Spell. While many were gifted in magic innately those with the mind to attempt to understand it were given this great boon. They taught it to the next generation and so on. Now most wizards don’t look at the God of Magic as the originator, but believe either 1 or 2.
Even if you can invent a reason for scribe spell coming to be, it is still a dumb decision as the wizard is in effect forced to keep it in their prepared list at all times for the off chance their books are destroyed, as the rules don't include a way to learn and scribe spells without scribe spell. As even in all those 3 examples even if the god of magic came down and taught them scribe spell, they still could not prepare it to cast it to scribe the scribe spell into their spell book. And on top of that its just a pointless change for the purpose of change. They clearly fit better as class abilities. Likely they saw the complaints about a lack of unique spell lists and this was their ham fisted solution.
The new Pact Weapon is disappointing because you can't shunt a magical weapon you've bonded with into the extradimensional space anymore. I don't understand why they changed that.
Personally I'd like them to change it so you can make one weapon attack with the weapon with the same action you use to summon it.
It should be a object interact to summon it, but give it a real duration like 5-10 minutes. As is it just feels like a normal weapon in your kit, the summoning of it is off screen.
We will have to see what they do with magic weapons, some people are suggesting resistance to non magical is going away. I hope not magic weapons with it. Personally I'd like some way of imparting a magic weapons abilities into the pact weapon, so you can still style it a bit as you want with each summon.
Just looking at pact weapon during this discussion has made me think it might be a great 1-level dip for a fighter that wants to go thrown weapon. Finally, you don’t need to depend on the artificer to make you a returning weapon. And you could even be wisdom based and qualify for the multiclass, since wis is a pretty useful stat for fighters. Use light hammers which give you nick, take crusher for the push and you can knock people all around. Only a d4 damage, but but kind of cool add on effects. Kind of strange, since I thought they were trying to tamp down on those kinds of dips.
That seems like a fun but fairly minor boost for a 1 level dip. Compared to before giving you some hugely significant boosts for certain 1 level dips.
For those asking for more invocation options for a melee combat warlock, perhaps that would be a good place for Hexblade to come in and fill the heavy warlock gaps. Heavy armor, and or heavy weapons for Pact Weapon. I don't feel it would be necessary to allow all pact blade warlocks to access that particular functionality. Granted someone walking into a bar and suddenly they have a Great Axe in their hands from nowhere is pretty funny.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
The new Pact Weapon is disappointing because you can't shunt a magical weapon you've bonded with into the extradimensional space anymore. I don't understand why they changed that.
Personally I'd like them to change it so you can make one weapon attack with the weapon with the same action you use to summon it.
It should be a object interact to summon it, but give it a real duration like 5-10 minutes. As is it just feels like a normal weapon in your kit, the summoning of it is off screen.
We will have to see what they do with magic weapons, some people are suggesting resistance to non magical is going away. I hope not magic weapons with it. Personally I'd like some way of imparting a magic weapons abilities into the pact weapon, so you can still style it a bit as you want with each summon.
Just give it "duration: instant", like the Book of Shadows has. I don't understand why it would need to have upper limit at all.
Even if you can invent a reason for scribe spell coming to be, it is still a dumb decision as the wizard is in effect forced to keep it in their prepared list at all times for the off chance their books are destroyed, as the rules don't include a way to learn and scribe spells without scribe spell. As even in all those 3 examples even if the god of magic came down and taught them scribe spell, they still could not prepare it to cast it to scribe the scribe spell into their spell book. And on top of that its just a pointless change for the purpose of change. They clearly fit better as class abilities. Likely they saw the complaints about a lack of unique spell lists and this was their ham fisted solution.
It's called a playtest, they can plug holes like this with our feedback. And even if they don't, a wizard dedicating one of their prepared spells to Scribe is not going to stop them from being the most powerful class in the game. There's no need for all this melodrama.
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That's just action economy. If you have quicken spell, you can cast pact weapon twice in one round.
It's absurd, is what it is
Pact cantrips are a dumb concept
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
A warlock is not an EB machine just as a Paladin is not a smite machine. But EB is a major part of their kit and balance, just like smite is for paladin.
No way to have Heavy Pact weapon.
No Way to have pact weapon affect creatures immune/resistant to non-magic weapons.
The blade pact warlock can cast the cantrip in the morning. No enemy to counter the spell.
Why would someone dispel a warlock's sword? Why would they think to?
They are no more dumb than any other spell or cantrip. You example of how someone would get rid of a pact weapon has been proven invalid. Counterspell doesn’t work because warlocks are not giving up an action to cast the cantrip during combat. They are coming to the fight with the weapon. Casting dispel magic to get rid of a cantrip is a major waste and the rest of the party will be happy as they kill the idiot villain who wasted a turn dispelling a weapon. There are plenty of things to gripe about, but pact cantrips isn’t even worth your energy.
Eh, the whole class ability as spell thing is pretty dumb. It doesn't break the game or anything, but its going to have weird hickups due to spell logic, the scribe spell thing on wizard is a good example.
It's a kinda odd decision, but it's mostly irrelevant.
Actually the logic of scribe spell is pretty simple. It the question of which came first the chicken or the egg. There are three possible answers.
1. Magic already existed and natural casters where casting like crazy. The first wizard through research and trial and error figured out a way to write Magic down. Then he taught others how to write it down.
2. Someone researching the universe stumbled across the ability to scribe spells by accident by placing certain runes and old text together. One they had that they could cast magic, making them the first wizard.
3. Probably the one that makes the most sense for Dnd lore. When the God of magic gave mortals magic she gave those with the mind to learn arcane magic Scribe Spell. While many were gifted in magic innately those with the mind to attempt to understand it were given this great boon. They taught it to the next generation and so on. Now most wizards don’t look at the God of Magic as the originator, but believe either 1 or 2.
I'd like to see someone counterspelling Scribe Spell.
Probably happens all the time at Wizard school
You know Malfoy was keen to counterspell Potter's spell scribing.
And what example is that? Or are you confusing me with someone else?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The new Pact Weapon is disappointing because you can't shunt a magical weapon you've bonded with into the extradimensional space anymore. I don't understand why they changed that.
Personally I'd like them to change it so you can make one weapon attack with the weapon with the same action you use to summon it.
Even if you can invent a reason for scribe spell coming to be, it is still a dumb decision as the wizard is in effect forced to keep it in their prepared list at all times for the off chance their books are destroyed, as the rules don't include a way to learn and scribe spells without scribe spell. As even in all those 3 examples even if the god of magic came down and taught them scribe spell, they still could not prepare it to cast it to scribe the scribe spell into their spell book. And on top of that its just a pointless change for the purpose of change. They clearly fit better as class abilities. Likely they saw the complaints about a lack of unique spell lists and this was their ham fisted solution.
It should be a object interact to summon it, but give it a real duration like 5-10 minutes. As is it just feels like a normal weapon in your kit, the summoning of it is off screen.
We will have to see what they do with magic weapons, some people are suggesting resistance to non magical is going away. I hope not magic weapons with it. Personally I'd like some way of imparting a magic weapons abilities into the pact weapon, so you can still style it a bit as you want with each summon.
No need to multiclassing - a Pact of the Chain Warlock can have the Find Familiar spell and the Pact Familiar Cantrip.
That seems like a fun but fairly minor boost for a 1 level dip. Compared to before giving you some hugely significant boosts for certain 1 level dips.
For those asking for more invocation options for a melee combat warlock, perhaps that would be a good place for Hexblade to come in and fill the heavy warlock gaps. Heavy armor, and or heavy weapons for Pact Weapon. I don't feel it would be necessary to allow all pact blade warlocks to access that particular functionality. Granted someone walking into a bar and suddenly they have a Great Axe in their hands from nowhere is pretty funny.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Just give it "duration: instant", like the Book of Shadows has. I don't understand why it would need to have upper limit at all.
It's called a playtest, they can plug holes like this with our feedback. And even if they don't, a wizard dedicating one of their prepared spells to Scribe is not going to stop them from being the most powerful class in the game. There's no need for all this melodrama.