It is a term that's still in use with real life belief systems, so I can see why they might decide it's more polite not to appropriate it for a game that is not claiming a connection to those systems.
And for the folks who think the "flavour" of the class is more important than real-life cultures (...), also consider that giving it a less culturally-specific name allows for flexibility in how players flavour their own Monk characters rather than aligning it with specific cultures/religious systems.
That's all well and good, I just wish they picked something easier to say & write. "ki" is one syllable and two key strokes, Discipline is three syllables and 10 key strokes, and requires you to specific "discipline points" to not be confusing. Could we use something quicker and easier? like "stunts" maybe? or "martial points" (MP)?
It is a term that's still in use with real life belief systems, so I can see why they might decide it's more polite not to appropriate it for a game that is not claiming a connection to those systems.
Oh I realize that, I just don’t like the polysyllable they selected for this playtest.
Just call the points "disc", it's not that much more to type than ki. And it's easier to shorten than "spirit" which is what I thought they were going to go with.
I think we have bigger fish to fry where the monk is concerned, like convincing them that d10 HD and an extra ASI aren't going to send them to the moon.
Just call the points "disc", it's not that much more to type than ki. And it's easier to shorten than "spirit" which is what I thought they were going to go with.
What do you mean? Personally, I was looking forward to asking my party for a short rest because I'm low on sp'it.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Just call the points "disc", it's not that much more to type than ki. And it's easier to shorten than "spirit" which is what I thought they were going to go with.
What do you mean? Personally, I was looking forward to asking my party for a short rest because I'm low on sp'it.
flavor(ed sp'it) is free. free as a complimentary mint toothpick.
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unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
Your access to this energy is represented by a number of Discipline Points
Right Discipline Points is just a mouthful that is horrible to say. Already I’m shortening it, already disc is morphing into di*k points
@WotC, call them Spirit Points if you refuse to use Ki, Qi or Chi
There are many criticisms that I believe have merit, but I personally see this as being a bit nit-picky. Discipline Points takes no more effort to say than Sorcery Points does and less than Bardic Inspiration, Pass without Trace (always gets an 'a' added), or Prestidigitation.
Saying to the monk "do you want short rest to have some more DP" might make some people giggle.
I really like the new Elements Monk. It's almost like the Ascendant Dragon Monk (and almost/mostly makes the Ascendant Dragon obsolete). Ascendant Dragon was DEFINITELY a better Elemental Monk than the 2014 4E Monk.
Plus, I think it paves the way for the Monk to have a 1/3 caster subclass. Part of the old 4E goes to the new Warrior of the Elements, and now the Monk needs a caster-ish subclass for the other aspects of the old 4E Monk.
For multiple attacks, could you not do do one unarmed strike, an offhand attack with the dagger and use nick, and then do the bonus action unarmed strike? It's a small thing but I don't see why you couldn't get that little bit of extra damage with the rules for light weapons.
I could be missing something.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
For multiple attacks, could you not do do one unarmed strike, an offhand attack with the dagger and use nick, and then do the bonus action unarmed strike?
No, because an unarmed strike doesn't fulfill the prerequisites for an offhand attack. Once you get extra attacks one of your attacks as part of the attack action can be unarmed, though.
Unarmed strike wouldn't count as a weapon with light, that... makes enough sense. Would be nice if they gave an exception, but that could be some what 'abusive' of rules. Bummer was hoping to get more use from simple weapons than that. That may be the most disappointing thing with the monk. Here's a new mechanic that you 'almost' get punished using. At the least it's a bit net zero in terms of power.
I guess it does give opportunity for versatility. Sacrifice damage to get an added effect, slow, save your BA for other effects etc.
Having a mace and hand axe to potentially do vex and sap does sound pretty cool for control early on. Ok I am getting more on board with the weapon mastery options even if the weapon damage doesn't scale with martial arts die. That's what magic weapons are for right?
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Unarmed strike wouldn't count as a weapon with light, that... makes enough sense. Would be nice if they gave an exception, but that could be some what 'abusive' of rules. Bummer was hoping to get more use from simple weapons than that. That may be the most disappointing thing with the monk. Here's a new mechanic that you 'almost' get punished using. At the least it's a bit net zero in terms of power.
I guess it does give opportunity for versatility. Sacrifice damage to get an added effect, slow, save your BA for other effects etc.
Having a mace and hand axe to potentially do vex and sap does sound pretty cool for control early on. Ok I am getting more on board with the weapon mastery options even if the weapon damage doesn't scale with martial arts die. That's what magic weapons are for right?
That appears how WotC is looking at it. I believe you could do something like double daggers, hand axes, light hammers, clubs, sickles (or a mix) and attack 3 times as an action (5th level +) and bonus action unarmed strike/FoB.
Unarmed strike wouldn't count as a weapon with light, that... makes enough sense. Would be nice if they gave an exception, but that could be some what 'abusive' of rules. Bummer was hoping to get more use from simple weapons than that. That may be the most disappointing thing with the monk. Here's a new mechanic that you 'almost' get punished using. At the least it's a bit net zero in terms of power.
I guess it does give opportunity for versatility. Sacrifice damage to get an added effect, slow, save your BA for other effects etc.
Having a mace and hand axe to potentially do vex and sap does sound pretty cool for control early on. Ok I am getting more on board with the weapon mastery options even if the weapon damage doesn't scale with martial arts die. That's what magic weapons are for right?
That appears how WotC is looking at it. I believe you could do something like double daggers, hand axes, light hammers, clubs, sickles (or a mix) and attack 3 times as an action (5th level +) and bonus action unarmed strike/FoB.
Woo, by not playing like a monk you can excel at low levels. Lord Two Shanks the monk. Nothing like rules not supporting the narrative of the class.
Stunning Strike can now work with Thrown weapons and Shortbows, that's great for being extremely annoying, especially with Sharpshooter.
Nick is probably way too good and means you have no excuse for not using a Handaxe & Dagger until at least level 5, and probably until level 11. I would need to really review the verbiage but at a glance, your options are Slash/Kick/Stab and Slash/Stab/Kick/Kick with Flurry of Blows. Vex is gonna be really good to get on those 1d8 Unarmed Strikes, but you're probably still better off with a Vexed Nick dagger than nothing.
I'm a big fan of Kensei monks and all these special weapon features jive really well with it. You can lean hard into the Shortbow and exchange your Bonus Action for Kensei's Shot for big numbers with thrown daggers or Shortbow attacks, which can now stun; with the Shortbow in particular, you'll just need to hit on the first shot and you'll be able to set up a chain of Vex Advantage attacks.
I get the sense that Spear and Quarterstaff are somehow now worse than Clubs. Flex and Versatile do nothing for a Monk, and do nothing for anyone else because everyone else will usually have access to a better Martial weapon (flail or rapier). The only way I can see them being useful would be for Polearm Master, which would be an extreme stretch because you're probably already in melee with your enemies anyway, so the Polearm Master's attacks of opportunity would never appear. I kinda think Spear needs Reach (would be a 1d8 reach weapon for monks and go well with a Shield for non-monks) and Quarterstaff needs Push (moving enemies around is always fun).
Also if a new Kensei monk comes out it'd be cool to get that one feature from Fighter that lets you add weapon Masteries to your weapons, adding Nick to my wind-and-fire wheels that are statistically considered Handaxes would be very cool.
I'm trying to wrap my head around the Bonus Unarmed Strike rules. Thinking aloud here. This is truly a peculiar situation.
When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or a Simple Weapon on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action on the same turn.
The current UA Bonus Unarmed Strike allows Level 1 attacking with 2 Light Weapons (one with Nick) + Unarmed Strike. Assuming handaxe + dagger gives 1d6 + DEX + 1d4 + 1d6 + DEX = 15.5. Using Vex from the handaxe complicates the numbers. But that is with no Disengage. Looks like Tavern Brawler is necessary. Compared to double Unarmed Strikes 2*(DEX + 1d6) = 13. Looks like in Tier 1 simple light melee weapons (one with Nick) offers more damage and combat tricks (such as club for the slow property).
Now thinking through level 5 with Extra Attack and 1d8 Martial Arts. Three unarmed strikes is 3*(DEX + 1d8) = 25.5. Is Unarmed Strike + Light Weapon + Light Weapon with Nick + Bonus Action Unarmed Strike legal? If so, that is DEX+1d8+DEX+1d6+1d4+DEX+1d8 = 27. If all main action attacks need the Light property, then handaxe+handaxe+dagger+Unarmed Strike is DEX+1d6+DEX+1d6+1d4+DEX+1d8=26. Seems like light weapons are slightly better than pure unarmed strikes. I was not expecting that.
At level 11 with 1d10 Martial Arts, the Unarmed Strikes are better than plain Light simple weapons. If +1 weapons occur, the power shifts back to the weapons, especially the handaxe.
Now thinking through level 5 with Extra Attack and 1d8 Martial Arts. Three unarmed strikes is 3*(DEX + 1d8) = 25.5. Is Unarmed Strike + Light Weapon + Light Weapon with Nick + Bonus Action Unarmed Strike legal? If so, that is DEX+1d8+DEX+1d6+1d4+DEX+1d8 = 27. If all main action attacks need the Light property, then handaxe+handaxe+dagger+Unarmed Strike is DEX+1d6+DEX+1d6+1d4+DEX+1d8=26. Seems like light weapons are slightly better than pure unarmed strikes. I was not expecting that.
RAW, yes, it says attacks with a light weapon, not only with a light weapon. So long as one attack is a light attack we're all gucci.
Am I the only one who wishes they would allow Monk's to wear light or medium armor?
It'd make it easier for strength monks to exist and would allow builds that reflect many fantasy tropes. I don't see any significant boosts in power. It would be similar to the Barbarian's unarmored defense...
Am I the only one who wishes they would allow Monk's to wear light or medium armor?
It'd make it easier for strength monks to exist and would allow builds that reflect many fantasy tropes. I don't see any significant boosts in power. It would be similar to the Barbarian's unarmored defense...
But barbarians unarmored defense is mostly a trap for warrior builds. If you are going stealth fighter its not terrible. I would not mind a subclass that does it, but I don't think the default should allow it. But who knows they are not the same classes so maybe it would work out. There are a lot of factors going into it. Personally I think they need to find a way to remove the MAD from monk which I guess could help with strength builds though I am not sure why that is a goal. Outside the recent warlock thing no one is saying we need Wisdom mages, charisma clerics, intelligence druids, why there is this fascination with shoving a off stat onto a martial build I don't get. And a lot of those tropes probably could be built off a fighter subclass just as easily. Make the samurai have some basic unarmed strike they can do as a bonus action after a melee attack, give them a discipline pool and some maneuvers like the battlemaster but more monk themed and go.
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It is a term that's still in use with real life belief systems, so I can see why they might decide it's more polite not to appropriate it for a game that is not claiming a connection to those systems.
Discipline points doesn’t bother me that much. Spirit points was ok. But I could also go for focus points or something else
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
That's all well and good, I just wish they picked something easier to say & write. "ki" is one syllable and two key strokes, Discipline is three syllables and 10 key strokes, and requires you to specific "discipline points" to not be confusing. Could we use something quicker and easier? like "stunts" maybe? or "martial points" (MP)?
Oh I realize that, I just don’t like the polysyllable they selected for this playtest.
Just call the points "disc", it's not that much more to type than ki. And it's easier to shorten than "spirit" which is what I thought they were going to go with.
I think we have bigger fish to fry where the monk is concerned, like convincing them that d10 HD and an extra ASI aren't going to send them to the moon.
What do you mean? Personally, I was looking forward to asking my party for a short rest because I'm low on sp'it.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
flavor(ed sp'it) is free. free as a complimentary mint toothpick.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Saying to the monk "do you want short rest to have some more DP" might make some people giggle.
So is druid - maybe they should change that to "mystic hippie"?
(For those lacking a sense of humor - I'm a druid, and I'm not offended by the use in D&D - though I wish I could wild shape.)
Check out my books on Amazon - Jon R. Osborne
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-YXqOMcVirc
I really like the new Elements Monk. It's almost like the Ascendant Dragon Monk (and almost/mostly makes the Ascendant Dragon obsolete). Ascendant Dragon was DEFINITELY a better Elemental Monk than the 2014 4E Monk.
Plus, I think it paves the way for the Monk to have a 1/3 caster subclass. Part of the old 4E goes to the new Warrior of the Elements, and now the Monk needs a caster-ish subclass for the other aspects of the old 4E Monk.
For multiple attacks, could you not do do one unarmed strike, an offhand attack with the dagger and use nick, and then do the bonus action unarmed strike? It's a small thing but I don't see why you couldn't get that little bit of extra damage with the rules for light weapons.
I could be missing something.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
No, because an unarmed strike doesn't fulfill the prerequisites for an offhand attack. Once you get extra attacks one of your attacks as part of the attack action can be unarmed, though.
Unarmed strike wouldn't count as a weapon with light, that... makes enough sense. Would be nice if they gave an exception, but that could be some what 'abusive' of rules. Bummer was hoping to get more use from simple weapons than that. That may be the most disappointing thing with the monk. Here's a new mechanic that you 'almost' get punished using. At the least it's a bit net zero in terms of power.
I guess it does give opportunity for versatility. Sacrifice damage to get an added effect, slow, save your BA for other effects etc.
Having a mace and hand axe to potentially do vex and sap does sound pretty cool for control early on. Ok I am getting more on board with the weapon mastery options even if the weapon damage doesn't scale with martial arts die. That's what magic weapons are for right?
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
That appears how WotC is looking at it. I believe you could do something like double daggers, hand axes, light hammers, clubs, sickles (or a mix) and attack 3 times as an action (5th level +) and bonus action unarmed strike/FoB.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Woo, by not playing like a monk you can excel at low levels. Lord Two Shanks the monk. Nothing like rules not supporting the narrative of the class.
A few things that I'd noticed in particular
Stunning Strike can now work with Thrown weapons and Shortbows, that's great for being extremely annoying, especially with Sharpshooter.
Nick is probably way too good and means you have no excuse for not using a Handaxe & Dagger until at least level 5, and probably until level 11. I would need to really review the verbiage but at a glance, your options are Slash/Kick/Stab and Slash/Stab/Kick/Kick with Flurry of Blows. Vex is gonna be really good to get on those 1d8 Unarmed Strikes, but you're probably still better off with a Vexed Nick dagger than nothing.
I'm a big fan of Kensei monks and all these special weapon features jive really well with it. You can lean hard into the Shortbow and exchange your Bonus Action for Kensei's Shot for big numbers with thrown daggers or Shortbow attacks, which can now stun; with the Shortbow in particular, you'll just need to hit on the first shot and you'll be able to set up a chain of Vex Advantage attacks.
I get the sense that Spear and Quarterstaff are somehow now worse than Clubs. Flex and Versatile do nothing for a Monk, and do nothing for anyone else because everyone else will usually have access to a better Martial weapon (flail or rapier). The only way I can see them being useful would be for Polearm Master, which would be an extreme stretch because you're probably already in melee with your enemies anyway, so the Polearm Master's attacks of opportunity would never appear. I kinda think Spear needs Reach (would be a 1d8 reach weapon for monks and go well with a Shield for non-monks) and Quarterstaff needs Push (moving enemies around is always fun).
Also if a new Kensei monk comes out it'd be cool to get that one feature from Fighter that lets you add weapon Masteries to your weapons, adding Nick to my wind-and-fire wheels that are statistically considered Handaxes would be very cool.
I'm trying to wrap my head around the Bonus Unarmed Strike rules. Thinking aloud here. This is truly a peculiar situation.
When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or a Simple Weapon on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action on the same turn.
The current UA Bonus Unarmed Strike allows Level 1 attacking with 2 Light Weapons (one with Nick) + Unarmed Strike. Assuming handaxe + dagger gives 1d6 + DEX + 1d4 + 1d6 + DEX = 15.5. Using Vex from the handaxe complicates the numbers. But that is with no Disengage. Looks like Tavern Brawler is necessary. Compared to double Unarmed Strikes 2*(DEX + 1d6) = 13. Looks like in Tier 1 simple light melee weapons (one with Nick) offers more damage and combat tricks (such as club for the slow property).
Now thinking through level 5 with Extra Attack and 1d8 Martial Arts. Three unarmed strikes is 3*(DEX + 1d8) = 25.5. Is Unarmed Strike + Light Weapon + Light Weapon with Nick + Bonus Action Unarmed Strike legal? If so, that is DEX+1d8+DEX+1d6+1d4+DEX+1d8 = 27. If all main action attacks need the Light property, then handaxe+handaxe+dagger+Unarmed Strike is DEX+1d6+DEX+1d6+1d4+DEX+1d8=26. Seems like light weapons are slightly better than pure unarmed strikes. I was not expecting that.
At level 11 with 1d10 Martial Arts, the Unarmed Strikes are better than plain Light simple weapons. If +1 weapons occur, the power shifts back to the weapons, especially the handaxe.
RAW, yes, it says attacks with a light weapon, not only with a light weapon. So long as one attack is a light attack we're all gucci.
Am I the only one who wishes they would allow Monk's to wear light or medium armor?
It'd make it easier for strength monks to exist and would allow builds that reflect many fantasy tropes. I don't see any significant boosts in power. It would be similar to the Barbarian's unarmored defense...
Current Characters I am playing: Dr Konstantin van Wulf | Taegen Willowrun | Mad Magnar
Check out my homebrew: Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Feats
But barbarians unarmored defense is mostly a trap for warrior builds. If you are going stealth fighter its not terrible. I would not mind a subclass that does it, but I don't think the default should allow it. But who knows they are not the same classes so maybe it would work out. There are a lot of factors going into it. Personally I think they need to find a way to remove the MAD from monk which I guess could help with strength builds though I am not sure why that is a goal. Outside the recent warlock thing no one is saying we need Wisdom mages, charisma clerics, intelligence druids, why there is this fascination with shoving a off stat onto a martial build I don't get. And a lot of those tropes probably could be built off a fighter subclass just as easily. Make the samurai have some basic unarmed strike they can do as a bonus action after a melee attack, give them a discipline pool and some maneuvers like the battlemaster but more monk themed and go.