I mean look at what Tasha's did. The "pick and choose ability scores" has made it a bit of a cluster to sit and dig up old physical books (because class descriptions are rewritten) to find out what the original stat bonuses were...
It's just not.... not going to work like you'd think.
What? Customize Your Origin is a toggleable feature.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Because it does 8d8 damage, softening up the target. Why pass up a chance to do 64 hit points of damage before wading into combat?
Because it's costing you a 4th level spell slot that you could use for an actually good spell? 8d8 single target with a 30' range, a constitution save, and no status effects riders just isn't particularly good.
Blight is to be used against Rogues and Mages (but Sorcerer) and of that kind, against "brutes" is not effective. Range could be a problem, probably much better when using metamagic.
Happy the multi-smite will not be back, trivializes the most important challenges. In general, that "once per turn" for all those damages (GWM and etc.) is the correct way, to make the Great Drake last more than 2 rounds.
I dont understand why a lot of the conversations surrounding changes are presented as if you cant both want big changes and still be against some of the specific changes suggested in the playtest.
I personally think doing away with class spell lists was a bad idea, its a change, yes, but its a bad one in my opinion.. That doesnt mean that Id prefer things to stay the same for this version update... new edition.. whatever it is. There are plenty of big changes Id like to see, but just because someone is in favor of big changes, you cant expect them to agree with changes just for the sake of it.
I think the solution to the situation Artificers and Bards create with the Arcane/Divine/Primal lists is not to do away with the three list format, but to add a fourth spell list, call it "Creation" or something like that, which is focused mainly on support and debuff spells (along with a few damage spells so they don't feel completely left out).
Arcane: Warlock, Wizard, Sorcerer
Divine: Cleric, Paladin
Primal: Druid, Ranger
Creation: Bard, Artificer
Effectively Artificer becomes the half-caster Bard.
I think the solution to the situation Artificers and Bards create with the Arcane/Divine/Primal lists is not to do away with the three list format, but to add a fourth spell list, call it "Creation" or something like that, which is focused mainly on support and debuff spells (along with a few damage spells so they don't feel completely left out).
Arcane: Warlock, Wizard, Sorcerer
Divine: Cleric, Paladin
Primal: Druid, Ranger
Creation: Bard, Artificer
Effectively Artificer becomes the half-caster Bard.
That still doesn't work; Bard puts a lot more emphasis on Illusion and Enchantment spells. You'd have to write in so many exceptions to come close to a proper Bard spell list that you might as well just admit the inevitable and make them two separate lists so they actually play into their respective roles properly rather than attempting some half-baked merger.
I dont understand why a lot of the conversations surrounding changes are presented as if you cant both want big changes and still be against some of the specific changes suggested in the playtest.
This. I've liked a lot of the changes in UA. I've also disliked a lot of them! While admittedly I hadn't thought deeply about them, I liked the new spell lists. I really liked Warlocks being able to choose their primary ability score. I really disliked the doing away of pact magic. Overall, I really liked the nerfing of wild shape for druids while also disliking the workaround given to moon druids. And so on.
While I'm sure there actually are folks who are 100% all or nothing for either 2014 or UA, most folks (here, at least) seem to have some nuance in terms of what they do and don't like.
I dont understand why a lot of the conversations surrounding changes are presented as if you cant both want big changes and still be against some of the specific changes suggested in the playtest.
Because I don't think I've ever seen any sort of praise, encouragement, or excitement concerning ANY of the proposed changes Wizards has released in ANY of the 1DD documents that I didn't write. Every single document release is an instant raging tire fire of hatred, vitriol, fury, and utter, utter, UTTER rejection. UA5 was particularly bad; the very microinstant that document dropped this forum turned into a thermonuclear Hell-ocaust of dozend and dozens and dozens of people just absolutely screaming their livers out that they would boycot every single Wizards product ever made and convince everyone they knew to do the same thing if Wizards dared to change the warlock IN ANY WAY.
They all utterly ignored the fact that Wizards has said, on multiple occasions, that the 2014 design for Pact Magic severely hinders the warlock class, that a very significant percentage of players end up never using their spells because Pact Magic feels too much like a Scant Resource they have to conserve for absolutely critical moments instead of a resource they can use whenever they want some fun, and that the game designers feel like they missed the mark with it. Naw. PaCt MaGiC iS uNiQuE, so Wizards is not allowed to alter it or the rest of the class associated with it in any way whatsoever or the grognards will rise up and sumo slam their whole-ass headquarters building. The overwhelming response to Wizards stating that players often feel hampered by the warlock's current design was "well if those people just stopped playing D&D wrong and took a whole shit-ton of short rests, like 10+ short rests the way we do, every single day they'd realize the warlock is awesome, so it's their fault they don 't like the class and they should STOP BEING BAD PEOPLE instead of asking that the class be "fixed"!"
At this point in the process, the only conclusion left to me is that nobody actually wants Wizards to change 5e at all. They just want the whole thing called off. Which, yes, I find both extremely short-sighted and utterly repellant. Trust me, I have taken my share of lumps and then some for being the only freaking player on the entire board actually willing to engage with the process and examine the documents with a hopeful eye.
I personally think doing away with class spell lists was a bad idea, its a change, yes, but its a bad one in my opinion..
It's the sort of change that should have been part of the game from the start. Even if we have to go back to the boring class-specific spell lists that exist solely so that the wizard can continue shitting in the sorcerer's corn flakes with the worst smug smirk in D&D, the existence of "Arcane", "Primal", and "Divine" as spell tags - and as spellcaster tags - would be incredibly useful. That's the sort of framework you can make a bunch of interesting decisions and mechanics around if you lean into it, start working to actually differentiate how the three primary* power sources feel in play rather than everybody being the same-ass spellcaster.
But naw. Grognards threatened to sumo slam, so now they're dumping the entire thing. No useful keyword framework for us, ohhhh no. Gotta be 2014 Compliant(TM) or no dice. **** my god damned life.
That doesnt mean that Id prefer things to stay the same for this version update... new edition.. whatever it is. There are plenty of big changes Id like to see, but just because someone is in favor of big changes, you cant expect them to agree with changes just for the sake of it.
It kinda does, actually? If all anyone ever does is scream and rant and piss and moan and kvetch and holler and caterwaul over HOW DARE THEY CHANGE THINGS, the only feedback Wizards is going to get is that people hate them changing things, no matter what the changes are or what things are being changed. They get enough of that feedback and they'll just cancel the whole thing, call it off and sell variant covers of the 2014 books for their fancy 50th Anniversary shindig. There needs to actually be some enthusiasm for the process, some excitement behind it, and some desire for there to be corrections made to broken/nonfunctional, underperforming, or indeed overtuned shit.
And yet, this forum has been 100% on the side of the grognards ever since that first document dropped just 'bout a year ago now and people realized Wizards was actually serious about changing things. For an entire year, anyone who's actually in favor of any of the changes has been on the receiving end of such a firehose of discontent that they all ended up leaving, and this boasrd turned into an echo chamber of total hatred and rejection.
What would you do, if you were a Business Person and you saw that your primary community/feedback channels were all nothing but an echo chamber of total hatred and rejection of the core fundamental idea behind your new project? I'm betting the answer isn't "carry on and do it anyways".
I dont understand why a lot of the conversations surrounding changes are presented as if you cant both want big changes and still be against some of the specific changes suggested in the playtest.
Because I don't think I've ever seen any sort of praise, encouragement, or excitement concerning ANY of the proposed changes Wizards has released in ANY of the 1DD documents that I didn't write. Every single document release is an instant raging tire fire of hatred, vitriol, fury, and utter, utter, UTTER rejection. UA5 was particularly bad; the very microinstant that document dropped this forum turned into a thermonuclear Hell-ocaust of dozend and dozens and dozens of people just absolutely screaming their livers out that they would boycot every single Wizards product ever made and convince everyone they knew to do the same thing if Wizards dared to change the warlock IN ANY WAY.
They all utterly ignored the fact that Wizards has said, on multiple occasions, that the 2014 design for Pact Magic severely hinders the warlock class, that a very significant percentage of players end up never using their spells because Pact Magic feels too much like a Scant Resource they have to conserve for absolutely critical moments instead of a resource they can use whenever they want some fun, and that the game designers feel like they missed the mark with it. Naw. PaCt MaGiC iS uNiQuE, so Wizards is not allowed to alter it or the rest of the class associated with it in any way whatsoever or the grognards will rise up and sumo slam their whole-ass headquarters building. The overwhelming response to Wizards stating that players often feel hampered by the warlock's current design was "well if those people just stopped playing D&D wrong and took a whole shit-ton of short rests, like 10+ short rests the way we do, every single day they'd realize the warlock is awesome, so it's their fault they don 't like the class and they should STOP BEING BAD PEOPLE instead of asking that the class be "fixed"!"
At this point in the process, the only conclusion left to me is that nobody actually wants Wizards to change 5e at all. They just want the whole thing called off. Which, yes, I find both extremely short-sighted and utterly repellant. Trust me, I have taken my share of lumps and then some for being the only freaking player on the entire board actually willing to engage with the process and examine the documents with a hopeful eye.
I personally think doing away with class spell lists was a bad idea, its a change, yes, but its a bad one in my opinion..
It's the sort of change that should have been part of the game from the start. Even if we have to go back to the boring class-specific spell lists that exist solely so that the wizard can continue shitting in the sorcerer's corn flakes with the worst smug smirk in D&D, the existence of "Arcane", "Primal", and "Divine" as spell tags - and as spellcaster tags - would be incredibly useful. That's the sort of framework you can make a bunch of interesting decisions and mechanics around if you lean into it, start working to actually differentiate how the three primary* power sources feel in play rather than everybody being the same-ass spellcaster.
But naw. Grognards threatened to sumo slam, so now they're dumping the entire thing. No useful keyword framework for us, ohhhh no. Gotta be 2014 Compliant(TM) or no dice. **** my god damned life.
That doesnt mean that Id prefer things to stay the same for this version update... new edition.. whatever it is. There are plenty of big changes Id like to see, but just because someone is in favor of big changes, you cant expect them to agree with changes just for the sake of it.
It kinda does, actually? If all anyone ever does is scream and rant and piss and moan and kvetch and holler and caterwaul over HOW DARE THEY CHANGE THINGS, the only feedback Wizards is going to get is that people hate them changing things, no matter what the changes are or what things are being changed. They get enough of that feedback and they'll just cancel the whole thing, call it off and sell variant covers of the 2014 books for their fancy 50th Anniversary shindig. There needs to actually be some enthusiasm for the process, some excitement behind it, and some desire for there to be corrections made to broken/nonfunctional, underperforming, or indeed overtuned shit.
And yet, this forum has been 100% on the side of the grognards ever since that first document dropped just 'bout a year ago now and people realized Wizards was actually serious about changing things. For an entire year, anyone who's actually in favor of any of the changes has been on the receiving end of such a firehose of discontent that they all ended up leaving, and this boasrd turned into an echo chamber of total hatred and rejection.
What would you do, if you were a Business Person and you saw that your primary community/feedback channels were all nothing but an echo chamber of total hatred and rejection of the core fundamental idea behind your new project? I'm betting the answer isn't "carry on and do it anyways".
To the bolded Yurei, that is so much BS I’m sure your eyes are brown. I’m sure you are the only one in the universe who wants change and the rest of us what nothing to change. Keep on believing that. Even though myself and others have had praise for some changes. We just don’t bow down to our WotC overlords and only see sunshine coming out of JC’s backside.
I like very much most of the changes that they have presented. I have various threads I’ve created or participated in, especially for monk, where I would have liked to see massive changes.
It’s starting to be difficult to take you seriously when you make statements like these.
Wow, more substance free abuse of others from the cheap seats.
Knowing that Warlocks have weaknesses that we would like fixed, but not accepting WotC's proposed "fix" because it took away everything we liked about Warlocks does not make people "grognards".
I was initially supportive of the Warlock changes, until I thought more about how it adversely affected the playstyle of Warlocks that I currently enjoyed. Sure, having few spell slots is a pain, but not having those high level spells when I want them is also a pain, and more relevant in normal "one or two encounter days" that occur in the games I've played. Of course playing pure (or nearly pure) Hexblade means that magic was generally a backup, not the primary function of my Warlock.
If I wanted to play a half caster Hexblade I'd just play Paladin.
Because I don't think I've ever seen any sort of praise, encouragement, or excitement concerning ANY of the proposed changes Wizards has released in ANY of the 1DD documents that I didn't write. Every single document release is an instant raging tire fire of hatred, vitriol, fury, and utter, utter, UTTER rejection. UA5 was particularly bad; the very microinstant that document dropped this forum turned into a thermonuclear Hell-ocaust of dozend and dozens and dozens of people just absolutely screaming their livers out that they would boycot every single Wizards product ever made and convince everyone they knew to do the same thing if Wizards dared to change the warlock IN ANY WAY.
The grognards won. Again. Kreen's video at the start was J-Craw walking back literally every substantial change in UA5, and the overwhelming response in this thread and others is elation and unfettered celebration. The one moderate thing they decided to try and keep - weapon Mastery - is the thing people are *****ing about still being there. Give it another cycle and I guarantee that will be gone, too. Every single time a document releases, people scream and rant until, a doc cycle later, J-Craw releases a Kendrick video talking about how they've decided to walk back the changes in the last document and leave everything exactly and precisely how it was in the 2014 book with absolutely no changes whatsoever.
The pattern is clear and obvious at this point, and yet people continue perpetuating it. What else am I supposed to believe, other than the fact that all'a y'all are absolutely eager for the entire initiative to be scrapped? At what point does it occur to someone that they might have to tolerate a change or two they're not so fond of in order to keep the most-of-a-document of excellent new ideas that will otherwise be THROWN AWAY ENTIRELY if everybody superhypermegaultra fixates on the one niggle they have to and shriek about it to the exclusion of all else?
I dont understand why a lot of the conversations surrounding changes are presented as if you cant both want big changes and still be against some of the specific changes suggested in the playtest.
Because I don't think I've ever seen any sort of praise, encouragement, or excitement concerning ANY of the proposed changes Wizards has released in ANY of the 1DD documents that I didn't write. Every single document release is an instant raging tire fire of hatred, vitriol, fury, and utter, utter, UTTER rejection. UA5 was particularly bad; the very microinstant that document dropped this forum turned into a thermonuclear Hell-ocaust of dozend and dozens and dozens of people just absolutely screaming their livers out that they would boycot every single Wizards product ever made and convince everyone they knew to do the same thing if Wizards dared to change the warlock IN ANY WAY.
Well, I've seen lots of it. In fact, several of your posts about everyone hating the new edition have been sandwiched and surrounded by comments that are literally praising One D&D. Once again, I am completely baffled as to what forum you seem to be in because the universal opinion here is not anything like what you're describing.
Just because some people don't like some changes to One D&D doesn't mean that they hate every modification ever made with as much fury as they can muster. And let's be real, while some people do I hate One, very few of them are telling others who do like it that they're terrible people.
You have completely exaggerated this point and are having debates with strawmen, which makes it very hard to take what you're trying to say seriously.
If you're asking if it matter re: the actual changes, my answer is: I don't know! I'll agree with you that they seem to be walking back a LOT of proposed changes, based on the feedback they tell us they're getting.
If you're asking if it matters here, in this forum, my answer: yeah, it does. Because this is a community, of a sorts, and it can be frustrating to be told YOU'RE NOT DOING THE THING! when I am, in fact doing that thing (in this case: not hating everything or loving everything, but liking and disliking separate elements).
While you and I disagree on a good number of the UA changes, you might be surprised that I'm essentially in agreement with you that whatever we're getting in 2024 is feeling more and more half-assed and like a tepid revising of existing content, rather than a bold, interesting reworking.
While you and I disagree on a good number of the UA changes, you might be surprised that I'm essentially in agreement with you that whatever we're getting in 2024 is feeling more and more half-assed and like a tepid revising of existing content, rather than a bold, interesting reworking.
That's the problem.
At this point, nothing on this planet will convince me that this isn't exactly what "The Community" wants. They don't want a grand new redesign, something that pushes boundaries and offers a plethora of exciting new ways to play and awesome new tools to play with. Something that makes 5e feel fresh and exciting to explore again.
They just want the same stupid ******* thing they already god damn have, just with a shinier cover and fewer spelling errors, and they're willing to destroy the rework entirely if that's what it takes to get it.
I'm so tired, Xuk. I'm so tired of watching this project get beaten and beaten and beaten by angry grognards who already hate the game just because Wizards is providing them an "official" outlet for their forever-damnable spite. People so convinced that "New = BAD" that they haven't yet moved on from friggin' Red Box. All the awesome new stuff Wizards was gonna do is gone because grognards won't just shut up and move on already. They have their game. They have their whole entire OSR "movement".
Why do they keep ruining 1DD for everybody who wanted 1DD in the first place?
Because there's more people to the D&D community than the people who want a massive overhaul, and the D&D people want their opinions too. If you really want a complete revamp that bad, pull a Paizo and do it yourself. Insisting that everyone else is wrong and hurting you because they don't share your opinion is not a productive talking point.
They're asking for everyone's opinions. Ergo they want to know if the majority of the players want changes. As I've said before, please don't gatekeep this just because you're not getting what you want from it. The entire point of all this is them polling the entire playerbase, not just the people who want a systemic overhaul.
I 100% get your frustration. It's really disheartening to see interesting changes just get completely discarded. In many ways I feel the same as you. However I think you may be a bit too invested in this. Don't get me wrong, its not bad that you care for this game. I'd say its a good thing overall. But I can't help but feel like your putting too much of yourself into this.
It may be worth considering at what point you need to step back. This may be our hobby, but it's not our lives.
How many times do I have to say it, Ace? The people who don't want a massive overhaul? The folks who despise all possible forms of change and want to stick with base 5e forever?
YOU ALREADY HAVE YOUR GAME! IT'S BEEN OUT SINCE 2014! GO PLAY IT!
"But once they release the new books they'll maaaaake us switch and I don't waaaaaanna!"
No they ******* won't and you know it because they actively said they intend for 2014 shit to be accessible and active once they're done. They never had any intention of icing the 2014 content and YOU ALL KNOW IT. At worst your books will be Legacy'd and new players will be steered towards new stuff until their angry nasty grognard DM forcibly yanks them to the old stuff.
LET!
THE REST OF US!
HAVE!
OUR GAME TOO!
And what about the rest of us who want something new and different, just not the same way you want it to be? Don’t we get a say?
There's that too; I've enjoyed several of the changes, but stuff like the initial Wildshape change, cutting the Bard spell list, and downgrading Warlocks to half casters is just a detriment to their classes. Weapon masteries, the special Wizard and Sorcerer spells, bumping up Sorcs known spells and spell pool, the Cunning Strikes feature for Rogues; loved all of those. There's plenty of good stuff, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to speak up about changes I don't like.
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Also, bear in mind that their 70% requirement isn't "70% love it", it's I think 70% rate it 3/5 or higher.
What? Customize Your Origin is a toggleable feature.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Blight is to be used against Rogues and Mages (but Sorcerer) and of that kind, against "brutes" is not effective. Range could be a problem, probably much better when using metamagic.
Happy the multi-smite will not be back, trivializes the most important challenges. In general, that "once per turn" for all those damages (GWM and etc.) is the correct way, to make the Great Drake last more than 2 rounds.
I dont understand why a lot of the conversations surrounding changes are presented as if you cant both want big changes and still be against some of the specific changes suggested in the playtest.
I personally think doing away with class spell lists was a bad idea, its a change, yes, but its a bad one in my opinion.. That doesnt mean that Id prefer things to stay the same for this version update... new edition.. whatever it is. There are plenty of big changes Id like to see, but just because someone is in favor of big changes, you cant expect them to agree with changes just for the sake of it.
I think the solution to the situation Artificers and Bards create with the Arcane/Divine/Primal lists is not to do away with the three list format, but to add a fourth spell list, call it "Creation" or something like that, which is focused mainly on support and debuff spells (along with a few damage spells so they don't feel completely left out).
Arcane: Warlock, Wizard, Sorcerer
Divine: Cleric, Paladin
Primal: Druid, Ranger
Creation: Bard, Artificer
Effectively Artificer becomes the half-caster Bard.
That still doesn't work; Bard puts a lot more emphasis on Illusion and Enchantment spells. You'd have to write in so many exceptions to come close to a proper Bard spell list that you might as well just admit the inevitable and make them two separate lists so they actually play into their respective roles properly rather than attempting some half-baked merger.
This. I've liked a lot of the changes in UA. I've also disliked a lot of them! While admittedly I hadn't thought deeply about them, I liked the new spell lists. I really liked Warlocks being able to choose their primary ability score. I really disliked the doing away of pact magic. Overall, I really liked the nerfing of wild shape for druids while also disliking the workaround given to moon druids. And so on.
While I'm sure there actually are folks who are 100% all or nothing for either 2014 or UA, most folks (here, at least) seem to have some nuance in terms of what they do and don't like.
Because I don't think I've ever seen any sort of praise, encouragement, or excitement concerning ANY of the proposed changes Wizards has released in ANY of the 1DD documents that I didn't write. Every single document release is an instant raging tire fire of hatred, vitriol, fury, and utter, utter, UTTER rejection. UA5 was particularly bad; the very microinstant that document dropped this forum turned into a thermonuclear Hell-ocaust of dozend and dozens and dozens of people just absolutely screaming their livers out that they would boycot every single Wizards product ever made and convince everyone they knew to do the same thing if Wizards dared to change the warlock IN ANY WAY.
They all utterly ignored the fact that Wizards has said, on multiple occasions, that the 2014 design for Pact Magic severely hinders the warlock class, that a very significant percentage of players end up never using their spells because Pact Magic feels too much like a Scant Resource they have to conserve for absolutely critical moments instead of a resource they can use whenever they want some fun, and that the game designers feel like they missed the mark with it. Naw. PaCt MaGiC iS uNiQuE, so Wizards is not allowed to alter it or the rest of the class associated with it in any way whatsoever or the grognards will rise up and sumo slam their whole-ass headquarters building. The overwhelming response to Wizards stating that players often feel hampered by the warlock's current design was "well if those people just stopped playing D&D wrong and took a whole shit-ton of short rests, like 10+ short rests the way we do, every single day they'd realize the warlock is awesome, so it's their fault they don 't like the class and they should STOP BEING BAD PEOPLE instead of asking that the class be "fixed"!"
At this point in the process, the only conclusion left to me is that nobody actually wants Wizards to change 5e at all. They just want the whole thing called off. Which, yes, I find both extremely short-sighted and utterly repellant. Trust me, I have taken my share of lumps and then some for being the only freaking player on the entire board actually willing to engage with the process and examine the documents with a hopeful eye.
It's the sort of change that should have been part of the game from the start. Even if we have to go back to the boring class-specific spell lists that exist solely so that the wizard can continue shitting in the sorcerer's corn flakes with the worst smug smirk in D&D, the existence of "Arcane", "Primal", and "Divine" as spell tags - and as spellcaster tags - would be incredibly useful. That's the sort of framework you can make a bunch of interesting decisions and mechanics around if you lean into it, start working to actually differentiate how the three primary* power sources feel in play rather than everybody being the same-ass spellcaster.
But naw. Grognards threatened to sumo slam, so now they're dumping the entire thing. No useful keyword framework for us, ohhhh no. Gotta be 2014 Compliant(TM) or no dice. **** my god damned life.
It kinda does, actually? If all anyone ever does is scream and rant and piss and moan and kvetch and holler and caterwaul over HOW DARE THEY CHANGE THINGS, the only feedback Wizards is going to get is that people hate them changing things, no matter what the changes are or what things are being changed. They get enough of that feedback and they'll just cancel the whole thing, call it off and sell variant covers of the 2014 books for their fancy 50th Anniversary shindig. There needs to actually be some enthusiasm for the process, some excitement behind it, and some desire for there to be corrections made to broken/nonfunctional, underperforming, or indeed overtuned shit.
And yet, this forum has been 100% on the side of the grognards ever since that first document dropped just 'bout a year ago now and people realized Wizards was actually serious about changing things. For an entire year, anyone who's actually in favor of any of the changes has been on the receiving end of such a firehose of discontent that they all ended up leaving, and this boasrd turned into an echo chamber of total hatred and rejection.
What would you do, if you were a Business Person and you saw that your primary community/feedback channels were all nothing but an echo chamber of total hatred and rejection of the core fundamental idea behind your new project? I'm betting the answer isn't "carry on and do it anyways".
Please do not contact or message me.
To the bolded Yurei, that is so much BS I’m sure your eyes are brown. I’m sure you are the only one in the universe who wants change and the rest of us what nothing to change. Keep on believing that. Even though myself and others have had praise for some changes. We just don’t bow down to our WotC overlords and only see sunshine coming out of JC’s backside.
I like very much most of the changes that they have presented. I have various threads I’ve created or participated in, especially for monk, where I would have liked to see massive changes.
It’s starting to be difficult to take you seriously when you make statements like these.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Wow, more substance free abuse of others from the cheap seats.
Knowing that Warlocks have weaknesses that we would like fixed, but not accepting WotC's proposed "fix" because it took away everything we liked about Warlocks does not make people "grognards".
I was initially supportive of the Warlock changes, until I thought more about how it adversely affected the playstyle of Warlocks that I currently enjoyed. Sure, having few spell slots is a pain, but not having those high level spells when I want them is also a pain, and more relevant in normal "one or two encounter days" that occur in the games I've played. Of course playing pure (or nearly pure) Hexblade means that magic was generally a backup, not the primary function of my Warlock.
If I wanted to play a half caster Hexblade I'd just play Paladin.
These forums really need a "downvote" button.
Yurei. I mean, c'mon. I literally do this in the post above yours.
Does it matter, Xukuri?
Does it really matter?
The grognards won. Again. Kreen's video at the start was J-Craw walking back literally every substantial change in UA5, and the overwhelming response in this thread and others is elation and unfettered celebration. The one moderate thing they decided to try and keep - weapon Mastery - is the thing people are *****ing about still being there. Give it another cycle and I guarantee that will be gone, too. Every single time a document releases, people scream and rant until, a doc cycle later, J-Craw releases a Kendrick video talking about how they've decided to walk back the changes in the last document and leave everything exactly and precisely how it was in the 2014 book with absolutely no changes whatsoever.
The pattern is clear and obvious at this point, and yet people continue perpetuating it. What else am I supposed to believe, other than the fact that all'a y'all are absolutely eager for the entire initiative to be scrapped? At what point does it occur to someone that they might have to tolerate a change or two they're not so fond of in order to keep the most-of-a-document of excellent new ideas that will otherwise be THROWN AWAY ENTIRELY if everybody superhypermegaultra fixates on the one niggle they have to and shriek about it to the exclusion of all else?
Please do not contact or message me.
Well, I've seen lots of it. In fact, several of your posts about everyone hating the new edition have been sandwiched and surrounded by comments that are literally praising One D&D. Once again, I am completely baffled as to what forum you seem to be in because the universal opinion here is not anything like what you're describing.
Just because some people don't like some changes to One D&D doesn't mean that they hate every modification ever made with as much fury as they can muster. And let's be real, while some people do I hate One, very few of them are telling others who do like it that they're terrible people.
You have completely exaggerated this point and are having debates with strawmen, which makes it very hard to take what you're trying to say seriously.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
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HERE.If you're asking if it matter re: the actual changes, my answer is: I don't know! I'll agree with you that they seem to be walking back a LOT of proposed changes, based on the feedback they tell us they're getting.
If you're asking if it matters here, in this forum, my answer: yeah, it does. Because this is a community, of a sorts, and it can be frustrating to be told YOU'RE NOT DOING THE THING! when I am, in fact doing that thing (in this case: not hating everything or loving everything, but liking and disliking separate elements).
While you and I disagree on a good number of the UA changes, you might be surprised that I'm essentially in agreement with you that whatever we're getting in 2024 is feeling more and more half-assed and like a tepid revising of existing content, rather than a bold, interesting reworking.
That's the problem.
At this point, nothing on this planet will convince me that this isn't exactly what "The Community" wants. They don't want a grand new redesign, something that pushes boundaries and offers a plethora of exciting new ways to play and awesome new tools to play with. Something that makes 5e feel fresh and exciting to explore again.
They just want the same stupid ******* thing they already god damn have, just with a shinier cover and fewer spelling errors, and they're willing to destroy the rework entirely if that's what it takes to get it.
I'm so tired, Xuk. I'm so tired of watching this project get beaten and beaten and beaten by angry grognards who already hate the game just because Wizards is providing them an "official" outlet for their forever-damnable spite. People so convinced that "New = BAD" that they haven't yet moved on from friggin' Red Box. All the awesome new stuff Wizards was gonna do is gone because grognards won't just shut up and move on already. They have their game. They have their whole entire OSR "movement".
Why do they keep ruining 1DD for everybody who wanted 1DD in the first place?
Please do not contact or message me.
Because there's more people to the D&D community than the people who want a massive overhaul, and the D&D people want their opinions too. If you really want a complete revamp that bad, pull a Paizo and do it yourself. Insisting that everyone else is wrong and hurting you because they don't share your opinion is not a productive talking point.
They're asking for everyone's opinions. Ergo they want to know if the majority of the players want changes. As I've said before, please don't gatekeep this just because you're not getting what you want from it. The entire point of all this is them polling the entire playerbase, not just the people who want a systemic overhaul.
I 100% get your frustration. It's really disheartening to see interesting changes just get completely discarded. In many ways I feel the same as you. However I think you may be a bit too invested in this. Don't get me wrong, its not bad that you care for this game. I'd say its a good thing overall. But I can't help but feel like your putting too much of yourself into this.
It may be worth considering at what point you need to step back. This may be our hobby, but it's not our lives.
And what about the rest of us who want something new and different, just not the same way you want it to be? Don’t we get a say?
There's that too; I've enjoyed several of the changes, but stuff like the initial Wildshape change, cutting the Bard spell list, and downgrading Warlocks to half casters is just a detriment to their classes. Weapon masteries, the special Wizard and Sorcerer spells, bumping up Sorcs known spells and spell pool, the Cunning Strikes feature for Rogues; loved all of those. There's plenty of good stuff, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to speak up about changes I don't like.