In the video, I JCraw said (time stamp 51:57) "Immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of level 1 or higher, you can roll on the wild magic surge table. Full stop. You can just do it." But in the playtest document, it says "No more than once per turn, you can roll a d20 immediately after you cast a Sorcerer spell with a spell slot. If you roll a 20, roll on the Wild Magic Surge table to create a magical effect (see the 2014 Player’s Handbook for that table)."
So, the video says you can just do it, the doc says you need to roll a 20 to do it.
Did I miss a nuance somewhere? Or was it just they probably printed a different version of the playtest than they meant to, or something else?
He's talking about Tides of Chaos, which can trigger wild magic surges, whereas the base Wild Magic feature only gives you a *chance* to surge.
I just re-watched the video. He says you can just roll on the surge table, not roll and see if you are allowed to roll on the surge table, just roll on the table. But you can only do it once per day. Then Tides of Chaos refreshes the ability, letting you do it more than once per day.
In the video, I JCraw said (time stamp 51:57) "Immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of level 1 or higher, you can roll on the wild magic surge table. Full stop. You can just do it." But in the playtest document, it says "No more than once per turn, you can roll a d20 immediately after you cast a Sorcerer spell with a spell slot. If you roll a 20, roll on the Wild Magic Surge table to create a magical effect (see the 2014 Player’s Handbook for that table)."
So, the video says you can just do it, the doc says you need to roll a 20 to do it.
Did I miss a nuance somewhere? Or was it just they probably printed a different version of the playtest than they meant to, or something else?
He's talking about Tides of Chaos, which can trigger wild magic surges, whereas the base Wild Magic feature only gives you a *chance* to surge.
I just re-watched the video. He says you can just roll on the surge table, not roll and see if you are allowed to roll on the surge table, just roll on the table. But you can only do it once per day. Then Tides of Chaos refreshes the ability, letting you do it more than once per day.
Yes he clearly misspoke
That’s the thing. Did he mis-speak, or is the document wrong?
Personally, I lean toward the document being wrong. Because what he said actually fixes the issue with wild magic, while the playtest document does not.
In the video, I JCraw said (time stamp 51:57) "Immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of level 1 or higher, you can roll on the wild magic surge table. Full stop. You can just do it." But in the playtest document, it says "No more than once per turn, you can roll a d20 immediately after you cast a Sorcerer spell with a spell slot. If you roll a 20, roll on the Wild Magic Surge table to create a magical effect (see the 2014 Player’s Handbook for that table)."
So, the video says you can just do it, the doc says you need to roll a 20 to do it.
Did I miss a nuance somewhere? Or was it just they probably printed a different version of the playtest than they meant to, or something else?
He's talking about Tides of Chaos, which can trigger wild magic surges, whereas the base Wild Magic feature only gives you a *chance* to surge.
I just re-watched the video. He says you can just roll on the surge table, not roll and see if you are allowed to roll on the surge table, just roll on the table. But you can only do it once per day. Then Tides of Chaos refreshes the ability, letting you do it more than once per day.
Yes he clearly misspoke
That’s the thing. Did he mis-speak, or is the document wrong?
Personally, I lean toward the document being wrong. Because what he said actually fixes the issue with wild magic, while the playtest document does not.
He misspoke. In the original version you rolled a d20 only when the DM asked you to after casting a spell. The new version you roll the d20 when you want to after casting a spell. The new version fixes the problem with the old version, but isn’t as often as JC made it seem. If you the player really wants chaos you have 5% after any spell. Or you use Tides of Chaos and on your next spell you have to roll on the table. Literally the old version you could never roll on the table if the DM wanted to avoid chaos.
In the video, I JCraw said (time stamp 51:57) "Immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of level 1 or higher, you can roll on the wild magic surge table. Full stop. You can just do it." But in the playtest document, it says "No more than once per turn, you can roll a d20 immediately after you cast a Sorcerer spell with a spell slot. If you roll a 20, roll on the Wild Magic Surge table to create a magical effect (see the 2014 Player’s Handbook for that table)."
So, the video says you can just do it, the doc says you need to roll a 20 to do it.
Did I miss a nuance somewhere? Or was it just they probably printed a different version of the playtest than they meant to, or something else?
He's talking about Tides of Chaos, which can trigger wild magic surges, whereas the base Wild Magic feature only gives you a *chance* to surge.
I just re-watched the video. He says you can just roll on the surge table, not roll and see if you are allowed to roll on the surge table, just roll on the table. But you can only do it once per day. Then Tides of Chaos refreshes the ability, letting you do it more than once per day.
Yes he clearly misspoke
That’s the thing. Did he mis-speak, or is the document wrong?
Personally, I lean toward the document being wrong. Because what he said actually fixes the issue with wild magic, while the playtest document does not.
He misspoke. In the original version you rolled a d20 only when the DM asked you to after casting a spell. The new version you roll the d20 when you want to after casting a spell. The new version fixes the problem with the old version, but isn’t as often as JC made it seem. If you the player really wants chaos you have 5% after any spell. Or you use Tides of Chaos and on your next spell you have to roll on the table. Literally the old version you could never roll on the table if the DM wanted to avoid chaos.
Right.
Its just. I’m playing in 2 games with wild magic sorcerers. Over a combined more than 40 sessions, rolling every time they cast a leveled spell (house rule) there has been one surge. Im just hoping what he said is what they go with, rather than what’s written down. Because 1-3 surges per session would be fun. But the current way is not.
In the video, I JCraw said (time stamp 51:57) "Immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of level 1 or higher, you can roll on the wild magic surge table. Full stop. You can just do it." But in the playtest document, it says "No more than once per turn, you can roll a d20 immediately after you cast a Sorcerer spell with a spell slot. If you roll a 20, roll on the Wild Magic Surge table to create a magical effect (see the 2014 Player’s Handbook for that table)."
So, the video says you can just do it, the doc says you need to roll a 20 to do it.
Did I miss a nuance somewhere? Or was it just they probably printed a different version of the playtest than they meant to, or something else?
He's talking about Tides of Chaos, which can trigger wild magic surges, whereas the base Wild Magic feature only gives you a *chance* to surge.
I just re-watched the video. He says you can just roll on the surge table, not roll and see if you are allowed to roll on the surge table, just roll on the table. But you can only do it once per day. Then Tides of Chaos refreshes the ability, letting you do it more than once per day.
Yes he clearly misspoke
That’s the thing. Did he mis-speak, or is the document wrong?
Personally, I lean toward the document being wrong. Because what he said actually fixes the issue with wild magic, while the playtest document does not.
He misspoke. In the original version you rolled a d20 only when the DM asked you to after casting a spell. The new version you roll the d20 when you want to after casting a spell. The new version fixes the problem with the old version, but isn’t as often as JC made it seem. If you the player really wants chaos you have 5% after any spell. Or you use Tides of Chaos and on your next spell you have to roll on the table. Literally the old version you could never roll on the table if the DM wanted to avoid chaos.
Right.
Its just. I’m playing in 2 games with wild magic sorcerers. Over a combined more than 40 sessions, rolling every time they cast a leveled spell (house rule) there has been one surge. Im just hoping what he said is what they go with, rather than what’s written down. Because 1-3 surges per session would be fun. But the current way is not.
I think you are missing this. Use tides of chaos. After you use tides of chaos, as it is written, if you cast a spell with a spell slot you automatically roll on the wild magic table, no d20 roll needed no GM fiat needed it just happens, and then you get tides of chaos back. Use tides of chaos again, and rinse and repeat till you are out of spells. You should be able to roll on the table every single time you cast a leveled spell if you want.
When I played a Wild Magic sorcerer, my DM just said to skip the d20 and just roll on the Wild Magic surge table every single time I cast a spell with a spell slot, and it was super fun.
Never knew if I was going to be whisked away to the Astral Plane or start spewing out bubbles. Making it that often made the random pointless effects totally fine, in my opinion. Sometimes you get a useful bonus effect, sometimes you don't, but it's so often that it balanced out pretty well.
My problem with the new UA version is you have to be casting attack roll spells, be forced to make saving throws, or take Observant or Keen Mind so you can guarantee you have ability checks to use Tides of Chaos on. If you're going the attack roll route, you won't get any benefit from your Tides of Chaos advantage if you have Sorcery Incarnate on, which feels weird and clunky to have to play this game of making sure you're making rolls (as opposed to forcing others to make saving throws). I still like it way better than the 2014 version, though! No DM fiat or house rules required to use it a lot.
When I played a Wild Magic sorcerer, my DM just said to skip the d20 and just roll on the Wild Magic surge table every single time I cast a spell with a spell slot, and it was super fun.
Never knew if I was going to be whisked away to the Astral Plane or start spewing out bubbles. Making it that often made the random pointless effects totally fine, in my opinion. Sometimes you get a useful bonus effect, sometimes you don't, but it's so often that it balanced out pretty well.
My problem with the new UA version is you have to be casting attack roll spells, be forced to make saving throws, or take Observant or Keen Mind so you can guarantee you have ability checks to use Tides of Chaos on. If you're going the attack roll route, you won't get any benefit from your Tides of Chaos advantage if you have Sorcery Incarnate on, which feels weird and clunky to have to play this game of making sure you're making rolls (as opposed to forcing others to make saving throws). I still like it way better than the 2014 version, though! No DM fiat or house rules required to use it a lot.
Well at least the attack spell can always be an attack cantrip like sorcerous burst, which works wonderfully for the wild nature of the subclass.
The new version fixes dm permissions which was a issue but not the big issue. The big issue was most people don't understand how it works. It needs cleaner wording. (As far as I can tell few people who understood 2014 thought frequency was really an issue. Hence why they only changed the dm permissions part)
Now I will say technically the tides of chaos isn't a class benefit until much later. The mix of good and bad attempt to balance out to mostly be fun chaos.
But there are ways to optimize surge effects by playing with an understanding the percentage of things that are good near enemies vs allies or neutral. Generally you want to build as a Leroy Jenkins type character. Planning to surge away from the party. (Until you get 2 choices)
They need to fix the table. The detrimental things on the table shouldn’t be able to tpk.
That is mostly the fireball, which should do 1d6 damage for every 2 levels of sorcerer, round up. Most the rest of the negative effects aren't TPKs by themselves. Letting level 1 sorcerers potentially hit them and the team with 8d6 damage is always gunna end bad when it comes up and so it's a straight up 2% chance for that happen per wild magic surge.
They need to fix the table. The detrimental things on the table shouldn’t be able to tpk.
That is mostly the fireball, which should do 1d6 damage for every 2 levels of sorcerer, round up. Most the rest of the negative effects aren't TPKs by themselves. Letting level 1 sorcerers potentially hit them and the team with 8d6 damage is always gunna end bad when it comes up and so it's a straight up 2% chance for that happen per wild magic surge.
I put in the survey that results that take away player agency should go. Most results are either good or just goofy. But some just take you out of the game for a round (I believe turning into a potted plant was one) or the TPK’s mentioned above, which isn’t many, thankfully.
A "Wild Magic Surge" d20 table more in line with what I would like to see. Note: slapdashed off the top of my head so not even remotely playtested or hammered out, more a first-blush Initial D(raft).
"Wild Magic Surge: Roll 1d20 and consult the following table" 1.) Magic abandons you in a rush, leaving you on the verge of collapse. You lose one spell slot per sorcerer level, beginning with your highest level remaining spell slots, and immediately drop to one Hit Point. 2.) Magical backlash scourges you, burning away your vitality and energy. You lose half of your maximum hit points and immediately gain two levels of Exhaustion. 3.) Your magic violently escapes your grasp and lashes out. All creatures and objects not being worn or carried within 15 feet of you (including yourself) take 1d6 force damage per sorcerer level you've acquired, and you must make a Concentration saving throw against the damage you sustained or gain the Stunned condition until the end of your next turn. 4.) Your magic morphs unpredictably in the moment of casting. The DM selects another spell on your spell list of equal level to the spell you were attempting to cast, and randomly selects a new target for that spell if it cannot affect the same target you were casting on. You cast that spell instead, using the same spell slot. 5.) Magic surges from your grasp, briefly altering your form. You become the target of the polymorph spell, becoming either a sheep or another CR 0 creature of the DM's choosing. The form lasts until the end of your next turn. 6.) Magic reverses itself, causing your spell to alter its nature. If you were casting a damage-deealing spell, the spell instead heals the target for the same Hit Point damage it normally causes. If you were casting a healing spell, the spell instead damages the target for the same Hit Point healing it normally causes. 7.) Your magic leaves you sapped of power, stealing away some of your arcane energy. You lose 1d3 Sorcery points. 8.) Your magic blasts with tremendous sound and dazzling light, flaring spectacularly around you and creating an enormous racket. The spell's effect is unaltered, but all creatures within one thousand feet of your location are aware of your presence if they were not already and can tell the direction the ruckus came from, if they cannot see it. 9, 10, 11.) A strange but ultimately harmless effect befalls you as magic twists around you for a moment. Your DM determines the effect, and can roll on the Magical Hijinks table to determine the effect if they choose. 12.) A bit of stray magic clings to you, revitalizing your arcane reserves. You gain 1d3 sorcery points. 13.) Your magic forks, duplicating the spell you were casting. The DM chooses the target of the copied spell, which seeks similar targets to the original spell (damaging spells seek enemies, supportive spells seek allies). 14.) Your magic is unusually intense, burning through you as it triggers. Your spell treats the spell slot used to cast it as being two levels higher than the slot expended, to a maximum of ninth level. 15.) Magic eagerly answers your call, molding itself to fit your whims. You may apply a Metamagic option to the spell without paying its cost in Sorcery points. You must fulfill all other requirements for the Metamagic option. 16.) Magic surges from your grasp, briefly altering your form. You become the target of the Polymorph spell, becoming a Tyrannosaurus Rex or similar large, dangerous creature of the DM's choice. You retain your Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores and can cast sorcerer spells you know in this form without providing material components. The form lasts until the end of your next turn. 17.) Magic snaps to your call, eager to be unleashed. Immediately after resolving your spell, you may use a bonus action to cast a sorcerer cantrip you know. 18.) Magic washes from you, bolstering you and your allies. You and all friendly creatures within 15 feet of you gain the effect of the Bless spell until the end of your next turn. 19.) Magic surges through you, empowering your abilities. You do not expend the spell slot used to cast the spell, and you immediately trigger your Innate Sorcery ability without expending a use of that ability. 20.) For a moment, you briefly exceed the abilities of mortal spellcasters. You do not expend the spell slot used to cast your spell; the spell is instead cast at ninth level, and you can apply up to three Metamagic options to that spell, including Metamagic options you do not currently know.
A "Wild Magic Surge" d20 table more in line with what I would like to see. Note: slapdashed off the top of my head so not even remotely playtested or hammered out, more a first-blush Initial D(raft).
"Wild Magic Surge: Roll 1d20 and consult the following table" 1.) Magic abandons you in a rush, leaving you on the verge of collapse. You lose one spell slot per sorcerer level, beginning with your highest level remaining spell slots, and immediately drop to one Hit Point. 2.) Magical backlash scourges you, burning away your vitality and energy. You lose half of your maximum hit points and immediately gain two levels of Exhaustion. 3.) Your magic violently escapes your grasp and lashes out. All creatures and objects not being worn or carried within 15 feet of you (including yourself) take 1d6 force damage per sorcerer level you've acquired, and you must make a Concentration saving throw against the damage you sustained or gain the Stunned condition until the end of your next turn. 4.) Your magic morphs unpredictably in the moment of casting. The DM selects another spell on your spell list of equal level to the spell you were attempting to cast, and randomly selects a new target for that spell if it cannot affect the same target you were casting on. You cast that spell instead, using the same spell slot. 5.) Magic surges from your grasp, briefly altering your form. You become the target of the polymorph spell, becoming either a sheep or another CR 0 creature of the DM's choosing. The form lasts until the end of your next turn. 6.) Magic reverses itself, causing your spell to alter its nature. If you were casting a damage-deealing spell, the spell instead heals the target for the same Hit Point damage it normally causes. If you were casting a healing spell, the spell instead damages the target for the same Hit Point healing it normally causes. 7.) Your magic leaves you sapped of power, stealing away some of your arcane energy. You lose 1d3 Sorcery points. 8.) Your magic blasts with tremendous sound and dazzling light, flaring spectacularly around you and creating an enormous racket. The spell's effect is unaltered, but all creatures within one thousand feet of your location are aware of your presence if they were not already and can tell the direction the ruckus came from, if they cannot see it. 9, 10, 11.) A strange but ultimately harmless effect befalls you as magic twists around you for a moment. Your DM determines the effect, and can roll on the Magical Hijinks table to determine the effect if they choose. 12.) A bit of stray magic clings to you, revitalizing your arcane reserves. You gain 1d3 sorcery points. 13.) Your magic forks, duplicating the spell you were casting. The DM chooses the target of the copied spell, which seeks similar targets to the original spell (damaging spells seek enemies, supportive spells seek allies). 14.) Your magic is unusually intense, burning through you as it triggers. Your spell treats the spell slot used to cast it as being two levels higher than the slot expended, to a maximum of ninth level. 15.) Magic eagerly answers your call, molding itself to fit your whims. You may apply a Metamagic option to the spell without paying its cost in Sorcery points. You must fulfill all other requirements for the Metamagic option. 16.) Magic surges from your grasp, briefly altering your form. You become the target of the Polymorph spell, becoming a Tyrannosaurus Rex or similar large, dangerous creature of the DM's choice. You retain your Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores and can cast sorcerer spells you know in this form without providing material components. The form lasts until the end of your next turn. 17.) Magic snaps to your call, eager to be unleashed. Immediately after resolving your spell, you may use a bonus action to cast a sorcerer cantrip you know. 18.) Magic washes from you, bolstering you and your allies. You and all friendly creatures within 15 feet of you gain the effect of the Bless spell until the end of your next turn. 19.) Magic surges through you, empowering your abilities. You do not expend the spell slot used to cast the spell, and you immediately trigger your Innate Sorcery ability without expending a use of that ability. 20.) For a moment, you briefly exceed the abilities of mortal spellcasters. You do not expend the spell slot used to cast your spell; the spell is instead cast at ninth level, and you can apply up to three Metamagic options to that spell, including Metamagic options you do not currently know.
Why would anyone play this? Your Wild Magic is on average a massive net negative. Whereas the current Wild Magic is on average a net positive.
1-3 = suicide (15% chance) 5, 6 = lose a turn (10% chance) 13 = double turn (5% chance) 4,9,10,11 = neutral (20% chance) 7 & 12 cancel each other out 8 = either causes a TPK / must flee situation or does nothing. (5% chance) 14, 19, 20 = 50% chance of doing something decently helpful (15% chance) 15, 17 = 1 free metamagic (10% chance) 16 = take no damage for 1 turn (-ish) (5% chance) 18 = minor buff (5% chance)
Overall 15% chance of disaster, 15% of bad, 25% ~neutral, 25% minor buff, 15% maybe good, 5% maybe awesome
How about #1 your lost spell slots go to the warlock in the party. If there is no warlock in the party it goes to a random warlock somewhere in the Multiverse
Why would anyone play this? Your Wild Magic is on average a massive net negative. Whereas the current Wild Magic is on average a net positive.
Good. Wild Magic is not supposed to be a happy fluffy bunny romp through magical frat-fey nonsense. It is supposed to be the subclass for someone who wishes to grapple with raw magic, untamed and violent, only just barely under their control and surging for release. The 2014 Surge table doesn't do a single green goddamned thing to make me feel like my magic is barely under my control. It makes me feel like I need to see an exorcist to send the goddamn drunk pixie following me around back to the friggin' Feywild. The overwhelming majority of effects on the 2014 Surge table are nonsensical nothingburgers that have nothing to do with spellcasting. It's a poorly designed, poorly implemented mechanic that is notorious for attracting the sorts of giggling shit****s who have no intention of playing a game of D&D and just want to throw chaos at everyone in the room until they get kicked out.
It's why so many tables ban Wild Magic as a subclass - not because of the two percent chance of Fireball-related mishap, but because the entire subclass is just annoying nonsense that doesn't enhance the game or speak to the character fantasy of someone struggling to control their powerful, chaotic magic. A game with a 2014/UA7 Wild Magic sorcerer in it is just kinda strictly a worse game, with no real potential for a serious tone because at any moment Steve can randomly turn someone into a living fart joke or a six-dicked beaver or a floating disembodied pompadour or whatever other inane, useless nonsense the Drunekn Pixie decides to spike what could otherwise be a desperate battle scene or a tense infiltration scene or whatever else the table might be doing.
I'm personally not a fan of the wild magic table's lol-random quality. I'd much rather prefer if the chaos element of it is more... fundamental? Weird things happen that can briefly shift the upper hand in an encounter, but won't last beyond that scene.
Examples!
- Time stutters for a split second. You immediately repeat the same spell action without spending any additional slot to do so, with the same spell target. - Time briefly accelerates. Every creature within 20 ft of the spell target may take its reaction to dash or attack. - Time suddenly slows down. Every creature within 20 ft of the spell target are unable to take reactions until the start of your next turn. - Space warps, shifting every creature within 20 ft of the spell target 10 ft in a random direction. Creatures colliding with other creatures or solid objects take 1d6 force damage and are placed in an unoccupied square within 5 ft of their destination. - Space warps, elongating distances briefly. Until the start of your next turn, every creature within 20 ft of the spell target has its speed reduced by half, and ranged effects have half range. - Space warps, becoming more dense. Until the start of your next turn, everything within 20 ft of the target counts as difficult terrain, but falling damage during this period is negated. - Realities violently overlap. The area within 20 ft of the spell target takes on an elemental quality. Until the start of your next turn, every creature that starts its turn within this area takes 1d6 elemental damage. - Realities briefly overlay. The area within 20 ft of the spell target is heavily obscured until the start of your next turn. - Reality loses integrity for a moment. Every creature within 20 ft of the spell target gain Fly speed equal to their land speed until the start of your next turn.
A "Wild Magic Surge" d20 table more in line with what I would like to see. Note: slapdashed off the top of my head so not even remotely playtested or hammered out, more a first-blush Initial D(raft).
"Wild Magic Surge: Roll 1d20 and consult the following table" 1.) Magic abandons you in a rush, leaving you on the verge of collapse. You lose one spell slot per sorcerer level, beginning with your highest level remaining spell slots, and immediately drop to one Hit Point. 2.) Magical backlash scourges you, burning away your vitality and energy. You lose half of your maximum hit points and immediately gain two levels of Exhaustion. 3.) Your magic violently escapes your grasp and lashes out. All creatures and objects not being worn or carried within 15 feet of you (including yourself) take 1d6 force damage per sorcerer level you've acquired, and you must make a Concentration saving throw against the damage you sustained or gain the Stunned condition until the end of your next turn. 4.) Your magic morphs unpredictably in the moment of casting. The DM selects another spell on your spell list of equal level to the spell you were attempting to cast, and randomly selects a new target for that spell if it cannot affect the same target you were casting on. You cast that spell instead, using the same spell slot. 5.) Magic surges from your grasp, briefly altering your form. You become the target of the polymorph spell, becoming either a sheep or another CR 0 creature of the DM's choosing. The form lasts until the end of your next turn. 6.) Magic reverses itself, causing your spell to alter its nature. If you were casting a damage-deealing spell, the spell instead heals the target for the same Hit Point damage it normally causes. If you were casting a healing spell, the spell instead damages the target for the same Hit Point healing it normally causes. 7.) Your magic leaves you sapped of power, stealing away some of your arcane energy. You lose 1d3 Sorcery points. 8.) Your magic blasts with tremendous sound and dazzling light, flaring spectacularly around you and creating an enormous racket. The spell's effect is unaltered, but all creatures within one thousand feet of your location are aware of your presence if they were not already and can tell the direction the ruckus came from, if they cannot see it. 9, 10, 11.) A strange but ultimately harmless effect befalls you as magic twists around you for a moment. Your DM determines the effect, and can roll on the Magical Hijinks table to determine the effect if they choose. 12.) A bit of stray magic clings to you, revitalizing your arcane reserves. You gain 1d3 sorcery points. 13.) Your magic forks, duplicating the spell you were casting. The DM chooses the target of the copied spell, which seeks similar targets to the original spell (damaging spells seek enemies, supportive spells seek allies). 14.) Your magic is unusually intense, burning through you as it triggers. Your spell treats the spell slot used to cast it as being two levels higher than the slot expended, to a maximum of ninth level. 15.) Magic eagerly answers your call, molding itself to fit your whims. You may apply a Metamagic option to the spell without paying its cost in Sorcery points. You must fulfill all other requirements for the Metamagic option. 16.) Magic surges from your grasp, briefly altering your form. You become the target of the Polymorph spell, becoming a Tyrannosaurus Rex or similar large, dangerous creature of the DM's choice. You retain your Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores and can cast sorcerer spells you know in this form without providing material components. The form lasts until the end of your next turn. 17.) Magic snaps to your call, eager to be unleashed. Immediately after resolving your spell, you may use a bonus action to cast a sorcerer cantrip you know. 18.) Magic washes from you, bolstering you and your allies. You and all friendly creatures within 15 feet of you gain the effect of the Bless spell until the end of your next turn. 19.) Magic surges through you, empowering your abilities. You do not expend the spell slot used to cast the spell, and you immediately trigger your Innate Sorcery ability without expending a use of that ability. 20.) For a moment, you briefly exceed the abilities of mortal spellcasters. You do not expend the spell slot used to cast your spell; the spell is instead cast at ninth level, and you can apply up to three Metamagic options to that spell, including Metamagic options you do not currently know.
Each result has a 5% chance of happening. Your list is more dangerous than the WotC list. While you did a great job of avoiding the low level TPK results, 1-3 basically kill the sorcerer. That’s a 15% chance at death. Imagine a level 13 Sorcerer rolling a 1 on the first spell they cast against the BBEG. Thankfully they get to roll two dice beyond that point, but I think the odds of it happening are a bit too high before 14th level. While 9th level careful, heightened, empowered Fireball is overpowered in a fun way at level 3 it’s not worth rolling on your table with 15% odds I would kill myself.
A "Wild Magic Surge" d20 table more in line with what I would like to see. Note: slapdashed off the top of my head so not even remotely playtested or hammered out, more a first-blush Initial D(raft).
"Wild Magic Surge: Roll 1d20 and consult the following table" 1.) Magic abandons you in a rush, leaving you on the verge of collapse. You lose one spell slot per sorcerer level, beginning with your highest level remaining spell slots, and immediately drop to one Hit Point. 2.) Magical backlash scourges you, burning away your vitality and energy. You lose half of your maximum hit points and immediately gain two levels of Exhaustion. 3.) Your magic violently escapes your grasp and lashes out. All creatures and objects not being worn or carried within 15 feet of you (including yourself) take 1d6 force damage per sorcerer level you've acquired, and you must make a Concentration saving throw against the damage you sustained or gain the Stunned condition until the end of your next turn. 4.) Your magic morphs unpredictably in the moment of casting. The DM selects another spell on your spell list of equal level to the spell you were attempting to cast, and randomly selects a new target for that spell if it cannot affect the same target you were casting on. You cast that spell instead, using the same spell slot. 5.) Magic surges from your grasp, briefly altering your form. You become the target of the polymorph spell, becoming either a sheep or another CR 0 creature of the DM's choosing. The form lasts until the end of your next turn. 6.) Magic reverses itself, causing your spell to alter its nature. If you were casting a damage-deealing spell, the spell instead heals the target for the same Hit Point damage it normally causes. If you were casting a healing spell, the spell instead damages the target for the same Hit Point healing it normally causes. 7.) Your magic leaves you sapped of power, stealing away some of your arcane energy. You lose 1d3 Sorcery points. 8.) Your magic blasts with tremendous sound and dazzling light, flaring spectacularly around you and creating an enormous racket. The spell's effect is unaltered, but all creatures within one thousand feet of your location are aware of your presence if they were not already and can tell the direction the ruckus came from, if they cannot see it. 9, 10, 11.) A strange but ultimately harmless effect befalls you as magic twists around you for a moment. Your DM determines the effect, and can roll on the Magical Hijinks table to determine the effect if they choose. 12.) A bit of stray magic clings to you, revitalizing your arcane reserves. You gain 1d3 sorcery points. 13.) Your magic forks, duplicating the spell you were casting. The DM chooses the target of the copied spell, which seeks similar targets to the original spell (damaging spells seek enemies, supportive spells seek allies). 14.) Your magic is unusually intense, burning through you as it triggers. Your spell treats the spell slot used to cast it as being two levels higher than the slot expended, to a maximum of ninth level. 15.) Magic eagerly answers your call, molding itself to fit your whims. You may apply a Metamagic option to the spell without paying its cost in Sorcery points. You must fulfill all other requirements for the Metamagic option. 16.) Magic surges from your grasp, briefly altering your form. You become the target of the Polymorph spell, becoming a Tyrannosaurus Rex or similar large, dangerous creature of the DM's choice. You retain your Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores and can cast sorcerer spells you know in this form without providing material components. The form lasts until the end of your next turn. 17.) Magic snaps to your call, eager to be unleashed. Immediately after resolving your spell, you may use a bonus action to cast a sorcerer cantrip you know. 18.) Magic washes from you, bolstering you and your allies. You and all friendly creatures within 15 feet of you gain the effect of the Bless spell until the end of your next turn. 19.) Magic surges through you, empowering your abilities. You do not expend the spell slot used to cast the spell, and you immediately trigger your Innate Sorcery ability without expending a use of that ability. 20.) For a moment, you briefly exceed the abilities of mortal spellcasters. You do not expend the spell slot used to cast your spell; the spell is instead cast at ninth level, and you can apply up to three Metamagic options to that spell, including Metamagic options you do not currently know.
Each result has a 5% chance of happening. Your list is more dangerous than the WotC list. While you did a great job of avoiding the low level TPK results, 1-3 basically kill the sorcerer. That’s a 15% chance at death. Imagine a level 13 Sorcerer rolling a 1 on the first spell they cast against the BBEG. Thankfully they get to roll two dice beyond that point, but I think the odds of it happening are a bit too high before 14th level. While 9th level careful, heightened, empowered Fireball is overpowered in a fun way at level 3 it’s not worth rolling on your table with 15% odds I would kill myself.
Right. So this goes from the sorcerer with the annoying “pixie” shenanigans to the “smelly kid at school who never showered or brushed their teeth and who liked to stick boogers on you” annoying sorcerer. Good upgrade, lol. Might as well reintroduce spell failure fro 1E while we are at it, oh wait! That’s in there, lol.
I'm personally not a fan of the wild magic table's lol-random quality. I'd much rather prefer if the chaos element of it is more... fundamental? Weird things happen that can briefly shift the upper hand in an encounter, but won't last beyond that scene.
Examples!
- Time stutters for a split second. You immediately repeat the same spell action without spending any additional slot to do so, with the same spell target. - Time briefly accelerates. Every creature within 20 ft of the spell target may take its reaction to dash or attack. - Time suddenly slows down. Every creature within 20 ft of the spell target are unable to take reactions until the start of your next turn. - Space warps, shifting every creature within 20 ft of the spell target 10 ft in a random direction. Creatures colliding with other creatures or solid objects take 1d6 force damage and are placed in an unoccupied square within 5 ft of their destination. - Space warps, elongating distances briefly. Until the start of your next turn, every creature within 20 ft of the spell target has its speed reduced by half, and ranged effects have half range. - Space warps, becoming more dense. Until the start of your next turn, everything within 20 ft of the target counts as difficult terrain, but falling damage during this period is negated. - Realities violently overlap. The area within 20 ft of the spell target takes on an elemental quality. Until the start of your next turn, every creature that starts its turn within this area takes 1d6 elemental damage. - Realities briefly overlay. The area within 20 ft of the spell target is heavily obscured until the start of your next turn. - Reality loses integrity for a moment. Every creature within 20 ft of the spell target gain Fly speed equal to their land speed until the start of your next turn.
These are exactly the kind of effects I would like to see implemented. Things that warp the battlefield with possible positive and negative consequences for both allies and enemies alike. I particularly like the one that moves creatures in a random direction, although if there are great numbers of creatures present, I could see it bogging things down for a moment. Along similar lines, I might like to see one where after the effects of the spell are resolved, the caster and target(s) instantly switch places. Some other simple possibilities might include everyone in a certain radius becoming vulnerable or resistant to spell damage for a round, or receiving either advantage or disadvantage on saving throws vs. magic for a round.
Along similar lines, I might like to see one where after the effects of the spell are resolved, the caster and target(s) instantly switch places. Some other simple possibilities might include everyone in a certain radius becoming vulnerable or resistant to spell damage for a round, or receiving either advantage or disadvantage on saving throws vs. magic for a round.
How about an wild magic result where the spell effect is delayed one round, with a phantom afterimage (pre-image?) of the spell being visible until it "catches up". That'd make it interesting for the group to try to stay out of the area of effect while at the same time trying to manoeuvre enemies into it.
Or a temporary gravity shift, where one of the walls is now the "default down" for a round or two? I want the wild magic to generate some Inception-level cinematics! :D
... incidentally, I just learned that the Inception movie is over 10 years old by now. I'm not okay with that. Didn't it come out just the other year? Soon someone is going to tell me that the 90ies were more than, like, fifteen years ago.
The 90's are over? This explains a lot about why my modem isn't handshaking anymore. I thought maybe TSR's dial-in service has just been down for maintenance a long time. By the way, my friends told me there's a new edition of AD&D coming out soon. I really hope they don't mess it up too bad; 3rd time's a charm, right? ;-)
Cheer's everyone!
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Yes he clearly misspoke
That’s the thing. Did he mis-speak, or is the document wrong?
Personally, I lean toward the document being wrong. Because what he said actually fixes the issue with wild magic, while the playtest document does not.
He misspoke. In the original version you rolled a d20 only when the DM asked you to after casting a spell. The new version you roll the d20 when you want to after casting a spell. The new version fixes the problem with the old version, but isn’t as often as JC made it seem. If you the player really wants chaos you have 5% after any spell. Or you use Tides of Chaos and on your next spell you have to roll on the table. Literally the old version you could never roll on the table if the DM wanted to avoid chaos.
Right.
Its just. I’m playing in 2 games with wild magic sorcerers. Over a combined more than 40 sessions, rolling every time they cast a leveled spell (house rule) there has been one surge.
Im just hoping what he said is what they go with, rather than what’s written down. Because 1-3 surges per session would be fun. But the current way is not.
I think you are missing this. Use tides of chaos. After you use tides of chaos, as it is written, if you cast a spell with a spell slot you automatically roll on the wild magic table, no d20 roll needed no GM fiat needed it just happens, and then you get tides of chaos back. Use tides of chaos again, and rinse and repeat till you are out of spells. You should be able to roll on the table every single time you cast a leveled spell if you want.
When I played a Wild Magic sorcerer, my DM just said to skip the d20 and just roll on the Wild Magic surge table every single time I cast a spell with a spell slot, and it was super fun.
Never knew if I was going to be whisked away to the Astral Plane or start spewing out bubbles. Making it that often made the random pointless effects totally fine, in my opinion. Sometimes you get a useful bonus effect, sometimes you don't, but it's so often that it balanced out pretty well.
My problem with the new UA version is you have to be casting attack roll spells, be forced to make saving throws, or take Observant or Keen Mind so you can guarantee you have ability checks to use Tides of Chaos on. If you're going the attack roll route, you won't get any benefit from your Tides of Chaos advantage if you have Sorcery Incarnate on, which feels weird and clunky to have to play this game of making sure you're making rolls (as opposed to forcing others to make saving throws). I still like it way better than the 2014 version, though! No DM fiat or house rules required to use it a lot.
Well at least the attack spell can always be an attack cantrip like sorcerous burst, which works wonderfully for the wild nature of the subclass.
The new version fixes dm permissions which was a issue but not the big issue. The big issue was most people don't understand how it works. It needs cleaner wording. (As far as I can tell few people who understood 2014 thought frequency was really an issue. Hence why they only changed the dm permissions part)
Now I will say technically the tides of chaos isn't a class benefit until much later. The mix of good and bad attempt to balance out to mostly be fun chaos.
But there are ways to optimize surge effects by playing with an understanding the percentage of things that are good near enemies vs allies or neutral. Generally you want to build as a Leroy Jenkins type character. Planning to surge away from the party. (Until you get 2 choices)
That is mostly the fireball, which should do 1d6 damage for every 2 levels of sorcerer, round up. Most the rest of the negative effects aren't TPKs by themselves. Letting level 1 sorcerers potentially hit them and the team with 8d6 damage is always gunna end bad when it comes up and so it's a straight up 2% chance for that happen per wild magic surge.
I put in the survey that results that take away player agency should go. Most results are either good or just goofy. But some just take you out of the game for a round (I believe turning into a potted plant was one) or the TPK’s mentioned above, which isn’t many, thankfully.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
A "Wild Magic Surge" d20 table more in line with what I would like to see. Note: slapdashed off the top of my head so not even remotely playtested or hammered out, more a first-blush Initial D(raft).
"Wild Magic Surge: Roll 1d20 and consult the following table"
1.) Magic abandons you in a rush, leaving you on the verge of collapse. You lose one spell slot per sorcerer level, beginning with your highest level remaining spell slots, and immediately drop to one Hit Point.
2.) Magical backlash scourges you, burning away your vitality and energy. You lose half of your maximum hit points and immediately gain two levels of Exhaustion.
3.) Your magic violently escapes your grasp and lashes out. All creatures and objects not being worn or carried within 15 feet of you (including yourself) take 1d6 force damage per sorcerer level you've acquired, and you must make a Concentration saving throw against the damage you sustained or gain the Stunned condition until the end of your next turn.
4.) Your magic morphs unpredictably in the moment of casting. The DM selects another spell on your spell list of equal level to the spell you were attempting to cast, and randomly selects a new target for that spell if it cannot affect the same target you were casting on. You cast that spell instead, using the same spell slot.
5.) Magic surges from your grasp, briefly altering your form. You become the target of the polymorph spell, becoming either a sheep or another CR 0 creature of the DM's choosing. The form lasts until the end of your next turn.
6.) Magic reverses itself, causing your spell to alter its nature. If you were casting a damage-deealing spell, the spell instead heals the target for the same Hit Point damage it normally causes. If you were casting a healing spell, the spell instead damages the target for the same Hit Point healing it normally causes.
7.) Your magic leaves you sapped of power, stealing away some of your arcane energy. You lose 1d3 Sorcery points.
8.) Your magic blasts with tremendous sound and dazzling light, flaring spectacularly around you and creating an enormous racket. The spell's effect is unaltered, but all creatures within one thousand feet of your location are aware of your presence if they were not already and can tell the direction the ruckus came from, if they cannot see it.
9, 10, 11.) A strange but ultimately harmless effect befalls you as magic twists around you for a moment. Your DM determines the effect, and can roll on the Magical Hijinks table to determine the effect if they choose.
12.) A bit of stray magic clings to you, revitalizing your arcane reserves. You gain 1d3 sorcery points.
13.) Your magic forks, duplicating the spell you were casting. The DM chooses the target of the copied spell, which seeks similar targets to the original spell (damaging spells seek enemies, supportive spells seek allies).
14.) Your magic is unusually intense, burning through you as it triggers. Your spell treats the spell slot used to cast it as being two levels higher than the slot expended, to a maximum of ninth level.
15.) Magic eagerly answers your call, molding itself to fit your whims. You may apply a Metamagic option to the spell without paying its cost in Sorcery points. You must fulfill all other requirements for the Metamagic option.
16.) Magic surges from your grasp, briefly altering your form. You become the target of the Polymorph spell, becoming a Tyrannosaurus Rex or similar large, dangerous creature of the DM's choice. You retain your Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores and can cast sorcerer spells you know in this form without providing material components. The form lasts until the end of your next turn.
17.) Magic snaps to your call, eager to be unleashed. Immediately after resolving your spell, you may use a bonus action to cast a sorcerer cantrip you know.
18.) Magic washes from you, bolstering you and your allies. You and all friendly creatures within 15 feet of you gain the effect of the Bless spell until the end of your next turn.
19.) Magic surges through you, empowering your abilities. You do not expend the spell slot used to cast the spell, and you immediately trigger your Innate Sorcery ability without expending a use of that ability.
20.) For a moment, you briefly exceed the abilities of mortal spellcasters. You do not expend the spell slot used to cast your spell; the spell is instead cast at ninth level, and you can apply up to three Metamagic options to that spell, including Metamagic options you do not currently know.
Please do not contact or message me.
Why would anyone play this? Your Wild Magic is on average a massive net negative. Whereas the current Wild Magic is on average a net positive.
1-3 = suicide (15% chance)
5, 6 = lose a turn (10% chance)
13 = double turn (5% chance)
4,9,10,11 = neutral (20% chance)
7 & 12 cancel each other out
8 = either causes a TPK / must flee situation or does nothing. (5% chance)
14, 19, 20 = 50% chance of doing something decently helpful (15% chance)
15, 17 = 1 free metamagic (10% chance)
16 = take no damage for 1 turn (-ish) (5% chance)
18 = minor buff (5% chance)
Overall 15% chance of disaster, 15% of bad, 25% ~neutral, 25% minor buff, 15% maybe good, 5% maybe awesome
How about #1 your lost spell slots go to the warlock in the party. If there is no warlock in the party it goes to a random warlock somewhere in the Multiverse
But, yeah, agree with Agilemind
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Good. Wild Magic is not supposed to be a happy fluffy bunny romp through magical frat-fey nonsense. It is supposed to be the subclass for someone who wishes to grapple with raw magic, untamed and violent, only just barely under their control and surging for release. The 2014 Surge table doesn't do a single green goddamned thing to make me feel like my magic is barely under my control. It makes me feel like I need to see an exorcist to send the goddamn drunk pixie following me around back to the friggin' Feywild. The overwhelming majority of effects on the 2014 Surge table are nonsensical nothingburgers that have nothing to do with spellcasting. It's a poorly designed, poorly implemented mechanic that is notorious for attracting the sorts of giggling shit****s who have no intention of playing a game of D&D and just want to throw chaos at everyone in the room until they get kicked out.
It's why so many tables ban Wild Magic as a subclass - not because of the two percent chance of Fireball-related mishap, but because the entire subclass is just annoying nonsense that doesn't enhance the game or speak to the character fantasy of someone struggling to control their powerful, chaotic magic. A game with a 2014/UA7 Wild Magic sorcerer in it is just kinda strictly a worse game, with no real potential for a serious tone because at any moment Steve can randomly turn someone into a living fart joke or a six-dicked beaver or a floating disembodied pompadour or whatever other inane, useless nonsense the Drunekn Pixie decides to spike what could otherwise be a desperate battle scene or a tense infiltration scene or whatever else the table might be doing.
**** 2014 Wild Magic.
Please do not contact or message me.
I'm personally not a fan of the wild magic table's lol-random quality. I'd much rather prefer if the chaos element of it is more... fundamental? Weird things happen that can briefly shift the upper hand in an encounter, but won't last beyond that scene.
Examples!
- Time stutters for a split second. You immediately repeat the same spell action without spending any additional slot to do so, with the same spell target.
- Time briefly accelerates. Every creature within 20 ft of the spell target may take its reaction to dash or attack.
- Time suddenly slows down. Every creature within 20 ft of the spell target are unable to take reactions until the start of your next turn.
- Space warps, shifting every creature within 20 ft of the spell target 10 ft in a random direction. Creatures colliding with other creatures or solid objects take 1d6 force damage and are placed in an unoccupied square within 5 ft of their destination.
- Space warps, elongating distances briefly. Until the start of your next turn, every creature within 20 ft of the spell target has its speed reduced by half, and ranged effects have half range.
- Space warps, becoming more dense. Until the start of your next turn, everything within 20 ft of the target counts as difficult terrain, but falling damage during this period is negated.
- Realities violently overlap. The area within 20 ft of the spell target takes on an elemental quality. Until the start of your next turn, every creature that starts its turn within this area takes 1d6 elemental damage.
- Realities briefly overlay. The area within 20 ft of the spell target is heavily obscured until the start of your next turn.
- Reality loses integrity for a moment. Every creature within 20 ft of the spell target gain Fly speed equal to their land speed until the start of your next turn.
Each result has a 5% chance of happening. Your list is more dangerous than the WotC list. While you did a great job of avoiding the low level TPK results, 1-3 basically kill the sorcerer. That’s a 15% chance at death. Imagine a level 13 Sorcerer rolling a 1 on the first spell they cast against the BBEG. Thankfully they get to roll two dice beyond that point, but I think the odds of it happening are a bit too high before 14th level.
While 9th level careful, heightened, empowered Fireball is overpowered in a fun way at level 3 it’s not worth rolling on your table with 15% odds I would kill myself.
Right. So this goes from the sorcerer with the annoying “pixie” shenanigans to the “smelly kid at school who never showered or brushed their teeth and who liked to stick boogers on you” annoying sorcerer. Good upgrade, lol. Might as well reintroduce spell failure fro 1E while we are at it, oh wait! That’s in there, lol.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
These are exactly the kind of effects I would like to see implemented. Things that warp the battlefield with possible positive and negative consequences for both allies and enemies alike. I particularly like the one that moves creatures in a random direction, although if there are great numbers of creatures present, I could see it bogging things down for a moment. Along similar lines, I might like to see one where after the effects of the spell are resolved, the caster and target(s) instantly switch places. Some other simple possibilities might include everyone in a certain radius becoming vulnerable or resistant to spell damage for a round, or receiving either advantage or disadvantage on saving throws vs. magic for a round.
How about an wild magic result where the spell effect is delayed one round, with a phantom afterimage (pre-image?) of the spell being visible until it "catches up". That'd make it interesting for the group to try to stay out of the area of effect while at the same time trying to manoeuvre enemies into it.
Or a temporary gravity shift, where one of the walls is now the "default down" for a round or two? I want the wild magic to generate some Inception-level cinematics! :D
... incidentally, I just learned that the Inception movie is over 10 years old by now. I'm not okay with that. Didn't it come out just the other year? Soon someone is going to tell me that the 90ies were more than, like, fifteen years ago.
The 90's are over? This explains a lot about why my modem isn't handshaking anymore. I thought maybe TSR's dial-in service has just been down for maintenance a long time. By the way, my friends told me there's a new edition of AD&D coming out soon. I really hope they don't mess it up too bad; 3rd time's a charm, right? ;-)
Cheer's everyone!