1) If you're dual-wielding you'll have two; Nick only has to be one of them to get the benefit.
2) Options are buffs. Sometimes, a debuff or rider means more damage in the long run even if it costs you some immediate damage in the short term. For example, Blinding an enemy costs you damage, but gives your entire party advantage; it also lets you hit and run most foes without needing to Disengage,. Withdraw also lets you escape foes without Disengaging, and Disarm might let you make an enemy drop e.g. their shield and lower their AC against every ally too.
1) And the other can only be shortsword with Vex, because it's the only light finesse weapon with mastery other than Nick. Actually, all light weapons have either Nick or Vex. No other options.
2) Using options effectively doesn't immediately buff the class - it buffs the skilled player that uses them to their full potential. It does nothing to the one who doesn't use them.
1) And the other can only be shortsword with Vex, because it's the only light finesse weapon with mastery other than Nick. Actually, all light weapons have either Nick or Vex. No other options.
2) Using options effectively doesn't immediately buff the class - it buffs the skilled player that uses them to their full potential. It does nothing to the one who doesn't use them.
Giving a class useful options it didn't have before is a buff to the class, even if it's up to the player to use them effectively. We may have to agree to disagree on that one.
If you want to benefit from Nick then sure, #1 is true - your options will be Nick/Vex or Nick/Nick.
But if you don't care about that and want to do Rapier + Dagger (your original complaint), Rogues do qualify for Dual Wielder again, which is a half-feat now. It will cost your bonus action but it's doable.
Giving a class useful options it didn't have before is a buff to the class, even if it's up to the player to use them effectively. We may have to agree to disagree on that one.
If you want to benefit from Nick then sure, #1 is true - your options will be Nick/Vex or Nick/Nick.
But if you don't care about that and want to do Rapier + Dagger (your original complaint), Rogues do qualify for Dual Wielder again, which is a half-feat now. It will cost your bonus action but it's doable.
Given that having more useful options is the whole essence of martial-caster divide, I think I'll actually agree with you that more options means buffs. But that also means that martials do need them in context of martial-caster divide.
I just eralized that the last time I saw the Dual Wielder feat in OneDnD was in Expert Classes UA and it was a 4th level feat that let you treat one non-light weapon as light, so technically rapier and dagger should be possible if that version of the feat is still valid. Then again, that feat is remarkably weak because it kind of doesn't do anything else.
Giving a class useful options it didn't have before is a buff to the class, even if it's up to the player to use them effectively. We may have to agree to disagree on that one.
If you want to benefit from Nick then sure, #1 is true - your options will be Nick/Vex or Nick/Nick.
But if you don't care about that and want to do Rapier + Dagger (your original complaint), Rogues do qualify for Dual Wielder again, which is a half-feat now. It will cost your bonus action but it's doable.
Given that having more useful options is the whole essence of martial-caster divide, I think I'll actually agree with you that more options means buffs. But that also means that martials do need them in context of martial-caster divide.
I just eralized that the last time I saw the Dual Wielder feat in OneDnD was in Expert Classes UA and it was a 4th level feat that let you treat one non-light weapon as light, so technically rapier and dagger should be possible if that version of the feat is still valid. Then again, that feat is remarkably weak because it kind of doesn't do anything else.
With me it just annoys me that the best swashbuckling builds run from the rapier and grab scimitars. I was hoping to have left that behind with Pathfinder.
I just realized that the last time I saw the Dual Wielder feat in OneDnD was in Expert Classes UA and it was a 4th level feat that let you treat one non-light weapon as light, so technically rapier and dagger should be possible if that version of the feat is still valid. Then again, that feat is remarkably weak because it kind of doesn't do anything else.
Given that it's a half-feat now, it doesn't need to do a whole lot else. But I expect it to get a bit of a buff now that the new attack/draw rules rendered the second half of it obsolete.
It does do one unique thing, i.e. allow a rapier to benefit from a Nick weapon in your other hand. If they don't end up buffing it though, I'd stick with a scimitar or shortsword instead.
With me it just annoys me that the best swashbuckling builds run from the rapier and grab scimitars. I was hoping to have left that behind with Pathfinder.
Dual Scimitars are pretty iconic in D&D, especially for Rangers, thanks to a certain emo drow.
Given that it's a half-feat now, it doesn't need to do a whole lot else. But I expect it to get a bit of a buff now that the new attack/draw rules rendered the second half of it obsolete.
It does do one unique thing, i.e. allow a rapier to benefit from a Nick weapon in your other hand. If they don't end up buffing it though, I'd stick with a scimitar or shortsword instead.
Oh, but compare it with Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master... One gives you +PB damage if you score at least one hit on your turn and an extra attack if you crit or kill a creature, another gives you stable ways to use both your bonus action and reaction,. And those are also half-feats. And Dual Wielder... basically lets you have one weapon deal +1 average damage. 0,66 per attack. For the price of a feat. It does give one access to masteries other than Vex, but that's just supposed to be a given.
Oh, but compare it with Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master... One gives you +PB damage if you score at least one hit on your turn and an extra attack if you crit or kill a creature, another gives you stable ways to use both your bonus action and reaction,. And those are also half-feats. And Dual Wielder... basically lets you have one weapon deal +1 average damage. 0,66 per attack. For the price of a feat. It does give one access to masteries other than Vex, but that's just supposed to be a given.
I totally agree that Dual Wielder is undertuned relative to PAM and GWM - especially now that, again, half of it does nothing.
Giving a class useful options it didn't have before is a buff to the class, even if it's up to the player to use them effectively. We may have to agree to disagree on that one.
If you want to benefit from Nick then sure, #1 is true - your options will be Nick/Vex or Nick/Nick.
But if you don't care about that and want to do Rapier + Dagger (your original complaint), Rogues do qualify for Dual Wielder again, which is a half-feat now. It will cost your bonus action but it's doable.
Given that having more useful options is the whole essence of martial-caster divide, I think I'll actually agree with you that more options means buffs. But that also means that martials do need them in context of martial-caster divide.
I just eralized that the last time I saw the Dual Wielder feat in OneDnD was in Expert Classes UA and it was a 4th level feat that let you treat one non-light weapon as light, so technically rapier and dagger should be possible if that version of the feat is still valid. Then again, that feat is remarkably weak because it kind of doesn't do anything else.
Could potentially be useful with Shillelagh. It takes a bit to set up but a club in your mainhand with shillelagh on it and rapier in your offhand should qualify.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
My only real issue if with favoured enemy, I feel like we deserve it to be it’s very own feature. Not one attached to a spell, that increases at certain levels.
Improved favoured enemy: critical hits happen on a 19-20 die roll.
Superior favoured enemy: each successful attack in a round increases the damage done, by one die size?
something that can really give the feeling of honing in on that specific enemy. I may have to change the class myself for games I run.
Main thing I'm not okay with is Beastmaster pet statblocks being locked to Ranger's Spell Attack bonus for their attack 🙂
Makes me feel kinda forced to make a Wis-focused build while I'd rather have Dex.
why do you feel forced to be better at tracking, spells, and pet tricks? just be better at weapons if that's what your character finds most called to. or pick a different subclass and make an animal friend on the side (hireling / sidekick) for you and the dm to share control of (perhaps without having to micromanage via bonus action every combat)?
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unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
Oh, but compare it with Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master... One gives you +PB damage if you score at least one hit on your turn and an extra attack if you crit or kill a creature, another gives you stable ways to use both your bonus action and reaction,. And those are also half-feats. And Dual Wielder... basically lets you have one weapon deal +1 average damage. 0,66 per attack. For the price of a feat. It does give one access to masteries other than Vex, but that's just supposed to be a given.
I totally agree that Dual Wielder is undertuned relative to PAM and GWM - especially now that, again, half of it does nothing.
Dual Wielder definitely has issues, but two-weapon fighting is actually viable now because of Vex & Nick. GWM is totally fine now, the problem is PAM. While they got rid of some exploits (Sentinel + PAM reaction), people are finding new ones (Topple + PAM reaction), and it just gives too much good stuff. It's pretty hard to justify using any two-handed weapon other than a polearm which is a bad thing for the game.
Oh, but compare it with Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master... One gives you +PB damage if you score at least one hit on your turn and an extra attack if you crit or kill a creature, another gives you stable ways to use both your bonus action and reaction,. And those are also half-feats. And Dual Wielder... basically lets you have one weapon deal +1 average damage. 0,66 per attack. For the price of a feat. It does give one access to masteries other than Vex, but that's just supposed to be a given.
I totally agree that Dual Wielder is undertuned relative to PAM and GWM - especially now that, again, half of it does nothing.
Dual Wielder definitely has issues, but two-weapon fighting is actually viable now because of Vex & Nick. GWM is totally fine now, the problem is PAM. While they got rid of some exploits (Sentinel + PAM reaction), people are finding new ones (Topple + PAM reaction), and it just gives too much good stuff. It's pretty hard to justify using any two-handed weapon other than a polearm which is a bad thing for the game.
Yeah, it will be like when Tasha’s came out and the only PC ever made since then has been mountain dwarf. And how every caster is absolutely required to take silvery barbs.
It’s really not hard to justify it at all, it will be fun for many to do something else. Sure, optimizers are gonna optimize. But lots of people (ime, most people, but I acknowledge that’s anecdotal evidence) just think, this character uses a honkin’ big axe, without considering if there’s some kind of combo they’re ignoring in the process. They don’t go looking to squeeze every +1 out of every situation. The game will be just fine.
Oh, but compare it with Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master... One gives you +PB damage if you score at least one hit on your turn and an extra attack if you crit or kill a creature, another gives you stable ways to use both your bonus action and reaction,. And those are also half-feats. And Dual Wielder... basically lets you have one weapon deal +1 average damage. 0,66 per attack. For the price of a feat. It does give one access to masteries other than Vex, but that's just supposed to be a given.
I totally agree that Dual Wielder is undertuned relative to PAM and GWM - especially now that, again, half of it does nothing.
Dual Wielder definitely has issues, but two-weapon fighting is actually viable now because of Vex & Nick. GWM is totally fine now, the problem is PAM. While they got rid of some exploits (Sentinel + PAM reaction), people are finding new ones (Topple + PAM reaction), and it just gives too much good stuff. It's pretty hard to justify using any two-handed weapon other than a polearm which is a bad thing for the game.
Fortunately, there's still time for them to tune PAM before the release. I'm generally not a fan of topple either, though I don't expect that it's going to be detuned.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Oh, but compare it with Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master... One gives you +PB damage if you score at least one hit on your turn and an extra attack if you crit or kill a creature, another gives you stable ways to use both your bonus action and reaction,. And those are also half-feats. And Dual Wielder... basically lets you have one weapon deal +1 average damage. 0,66 per attack. For the price of a feat. It does give one access to masteries other than Vex, but that's just supposed to be a given.
I totally agree that Dual Wielder is undertuned relative to PAM and GWM - especially now that, again, half of it does nothing.
Dual Wielder definitely has issues, but two-weapon fighting is actually viable now because of Vex & Nick. GWM is totally fine now, the problem is PAM. While they got rid of some exploits (Sentinel + PAM reaction), people are finding new ones (Topple + PAM reaction), and it just gives too much good stuff. It's pretty hard to justify using any two-handed weapon other than a polearm which is a bad thing for the game.
Fortunately, there's still time for them to tune PAM before the release. I'm generally not a fan of topple either, though I don't expect that it's going to be detuned.
It might, I can't be the only person who complained how it became tedious quick since it was on every attack.
Oh, but compare it with Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master... One gives you +PB damage if you score at least one hit on your turn and an extra attack if you crit or kill a creature, another gives you stable ways to use both your bonus action and reaction,. And those are also half-feats. And Dual Wielder... basically lets you have one weapon deal +1 average damage. 0,66 per attack. For the price of a feat. It does give one access to masteries other than Vex, but that's just supposed to be a given.
I totally agree that Dual Wielder is undertuned relative to PAM and GWM - especially now that, again, half of it does nothing.
Dual Wielder definitely has issues, but two-weapon fighting is actually viable now because of Vex & Nick. GWM is totally fine now, the problem is PAM. While they got rid of some exploits (Sentinel + PAM reaction), people are finding new ones (Topple + PAM reaction), and it just gives too much good stuff. It's pretty hard to justify using any two-handed weapon other than a polearm which is a bad thing for the game.
Fortunately, there's still time for them to tune PAM before the release. I'm generally not a fan of topple either, though I don't expect that it's going to be detuned.
It might, I can't be the only person who complained how it became tedious quick since it was on every attack.
Except it's only situationally useful, so it's unlikely to be a main Mastery.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
for pedantic clarity's sake: is that a 'console command' emoting strong disbelief or is that a 'close tag' to indicate an end to the function like '</pedantry>' ?
i'm having trouble reading whether you're sarcastic here. yes, sometimes you want to hit the enemy as hard as you can without knocking them over.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
Yes, compared to things like Vex, Sap, or Graze. A typical character is going to get two attacks per round, and since you both need to hit and the target needs to fail the save you’re unlikely to be able to consistently down the target on your first go, meaning its use is dependent on whether or not others who can take advantage of Prone are going to have a shot before the enemy can stand up, whereas the three I mentioned above simply work when an attack hits in two cases or misses in the third. Ergo, Topple is inconsistent and situational by comparison.
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1) And the other can only be shortsword with Vex, because it's the only light finesse weapon with mastery other than Nick. Actually, all light weapons have either Nick or Vex. No other options.
2) Using options effectively doesn't immediately buff the class - it buffs the skilled player that uses them to their full potential. It does nothing to the one who doesn't use them.
Giving a class useful options it didn't have before is a buff to the class, even if it's up to the player to use them effectively. We may have to agree to disagree on that one.
If you want to benefit from Nick then sure, #1 is true - your options will be Nick/Vex or Nick/Nick.
But if you don't care about that and want to do Rapier + Dagger (your original complaint), Rogues do qualify for Dual Wielder again, which is a half-feat now. It will cost your bonus action but it's doable.
Given that having more useful options is the whole essence of martial-caster divide, I think I'll actually agree with you that more options means buffs. But that also means that martials do need them in context of martial-caster divide.
I just eralized that the last time I saw the Dual Wielder feat in OneDnD was in Expert Classes UA and it was a 4th level feat that let you treat one non-light weapon as light, so technically rapier and dagger should be possible if that version of the feat is still valid. Then again, that feat is remarkably weak because it kind of doesn't do anything else.
With me it just annoys me that the best swashbuckling builds run from the rapier and grab scimitars. I was hoping to have left that behind with Pathfinder.
Given that it's a half-feat now, it doesn't need to do a whole lot else. But I expect it to get a bit of a buff now that the new attack/draw rules rendered the second half of it obsolete.
It does do one unique thing, i.e. allow a rapier to benefit from a Nick weapon in your other hand. If they don't end up buffing it though, I'd stick with a scimitar or shortsword instead.
Dual Scimitars are pretty iconic in D&D, especially for Rangers, thanks to a certain emo drow.
Oh, but compare it with Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master... One gives you +PB damage if you score at least one hit on your turn and an extra attack if you crit or kill a creature, another gives you stable ways to use both your bonus action and reaction,. And those are also half-feats. And Dual Wielder... basically lets you have one weapon deal +1 average damage. 0,66 per attack. For the price of a feat. It does give one access to masteries other than Vex, but that's just supposed to be a given.
I totally agree that Dual Wielder is undertuned relative to PAM and GWM - especially now that, again, half of it does nothing.
Could potentially be useful with Shillelagh. It takes a bit to set up but a club in your mainhand with shillelagh on it and rapier in your offhand should qualify.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
My only real issue if with favoured enemy, I feel like we deserve it to be it’s very own feature. Not one attached to a spell, that increases at certain levels.
Improved favoured enemy: critical hits happen on a 19-20 die roll.
Superior favoured enemy: each successful attack in a round increases the damage done, by one die size?
something that can really give the feeling of honing in on that specific enemy. I may have to change the class myself for games I run.
Main thing I'm not okay with is Beastmaster pet statblocks being locked to Ranger's Spell Attack bonus for their attack 🙂
Makes me feel kinda forced to make a Wis-focused build while I'd rather have Dex.
Art Portfolio
Welcome to the Monk’s world, having DEX and WIS to focus on, especially Astral Self.
It really doesn’t bother me that you have a subclass that has a different “primary” stat to build to.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
why do you feel forced to be better at tracking, spells, and pet tricks? just be better at weapons if that's what your character finds most called to. or pick a different subclass and make an animal friend on the side (hireling / sidekick) for you and the dm to share control of (perhaps without having to micromanage via bonus action every combat)?
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Dual Wielder definitely has issues, but two-weapon fighting is actually viable now because of Vex & Nick. GWM is totally fine now, the problem is PAM. While they got rid of some exploits (Sentinel + PAM reaction), people are finding new ones (Topple + PAM reaction), and it just gives too much good stuff. It's pretty hard to justify using any two-handed weapon other than a polearm which is a bad thing for the game.
Yeah, it will be like when Tasha’s came out and the only PC ever made since then has been mountain dwarf. And how every caster is absolutely required to take silvery barbs.
It’s really not hard to justify it at all, it will be fun for many to do something else. Sure, optimizers are gonna optimize. But lots of people (ime, most people, but I acknowledge that’s anecdotal evidence) just think, this character uses a honkin’ big axe, without considering if there’s some kind of combo they’re ignoring in the process. They don’t go looking to squeeze every +1 out of every situation. The game will be just fine.
Fortunately, there's still time for them to tune PAM before the release. I'm generally not a fan of topple either, though I don't expect that it's going to be detuned.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
It might, I can't be the only person who complained how it became tedious quick since it was on every attack.
Except it's only situationally useful, so it's unlikely to be a main Mastery.
prone is only situational? /disbelieve
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
for pedantic clarity's sake: is that a 'console command' emoting strong disbelief or is that a 'close tag' to indicate an end to the function like '</pedantry>' ?
i'm having trouble reading whether you're sarcastic here. yes, sometimes you want to hit the enemy as hard as you can without knocking them over.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Yes, compared to things like Vex, Sap, or Graze. A typical character is going to get two attacks per round, and since you both need to hit and the target needs to fail the save you’re unlikely to be able to consistently down the target on your first go, meaning its use is dependent on whether or not others who can take advantage of Prone are going to have a shot before the enemy can stand up, whereas the three I mentioned above simply work when an attack hits in two cases or misses in the third. Ergo, Topple is inconsistent and situational by comparison.