Unlike rogue monks still don't benefit from armor or have an equivalent to uncanny dodge. The new deflect attacks does help but a monk should have better defenses than a rogue not equal defenses for being a frontline fighter with a much smaller effective range
Nah, monks are in and out fighters. Rogues shouldn't be in the midst of things to begin with or only very selectively.
There will always be things that are exploitive for multiclassing. That can be dealt with by DMs at their tables.
We shouldn't compromise the fun of playing a single class by focusing on what might happen through multiclassing.
My point was really that it ought to be possible to do both; if the bonus action attacks work after all Monk actions and a few specific actions (similar to Fighter's updated Action Surge) then it's functionally identical as far as pure/primary Monks are concerned (you're still getting the bonus action whenever you want basically), but it would limit the potential abuse for multiclass dips.
That is kind of the point of Unearthed Arcana after all, to try and track down these kinds of issues before they make it to final print!
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I'm concerned it might be a bit front-loaded now; while it requires being unarmoured to get its 1st-level benefits, they are pretty decent if you're happy to make that trade (bonus action attack you can always use, can use Dexterity for grappling/shoving) which makes it very tempting for any Dexterity build. Hard to weigh up if that's a bad thing or not.
Likewise the 2nd-level is pretty tempting now too, mainly because Uncanny Metablism (rubbish name) lets you double Ki points and basically have Second Wind when rolling Initiative. Really I'm just concerned that a quick Monk dip on a Dexterity Fighter is still going to be better overall.
For me these are features rather than bugs. A Str Fighter might also want a 2-level Barb dip for Reckless for example. 2 level Monk dip for a BA unarmed strike could be a lot of fun on a Moon Druid, giving them a grapple or shove attempt before they multiattack!
That's why I'm "concerned" rather than denouncing it; it's a tough thing to judge so early though. I think part of the issue is that they've lifted some restrictions that, while great for Monk, may also make it more exploitable for multiclassing as well.
For example, all of the bonus action attacks are now completely unrestricted in when you use them; a good boon for pure Monk, but also fantastic on any multiclass with a class that didn't have many bonus actions of its own. I think it might make more sense to meet in the middle somewhere, for example, bonus action attacks can be used after the Attack, Dash, Dodge, or any Monk action.
After all, the Monk's access to extra unarmed strikes is supposed to be compensating for our lack of weapon attacks (and weapon mastery) but a Fighter with two shortswords using Nick can make five attacks without Action Surging. And I'm not even sure what kind of exploits we could see from casters that could do something like steel wind strike followed by a Flurry of Blows (there's almost definitely something even stronger than that).
With a 13 Dex and Wis requirement I’m not too worried with multiclass implications. Sure, rangers and Druids might benefit more but other classes, you would really have to build around to get Wis requirement.
I didn’t like Open Hands Fleet Step in the first UA but this version isn’t bad. Edit1: now that I think of it, does Fleet Step basically make the Addle option of Open Hand Technique irrelevant? You can FoB and the SotW for free as part of the same BA.
My point was really that it ought to be possible to do both; if the bonus action attacks work after all Monk actions and a few specific actions (similar to Fighter's updated Action Surge) then it's functionally identical as far as pure/primary Monks are concerned (you're still getting the bonus action whenever you want basically), but it would limit the potential abuse for multiclass dips.
That is kind of the point of Unearthed Arcana after all, to try and track down these kinds of issues before they make it to final print!
I'm concerned it might be a bit front-loaded now; while it requires being unarmoured to get its 1st-level benefits, they are pretty decent if you're happy to make that trade (bonus action attack you can always use, can use Dexterity for grappling/shoving) which makes it very tempting for any Dexterity build. Hard to weigh up if that's a bad thing or not.
Likewise the 2nd-level is pretty tempting now too, mainly because Uncanny Metablism (rubbish name) lets you double Ki points and basically have Second Wind when rolling Initiative. Really I'm just concerned that a quick Monk dip on a Dexterity Fighter is still going to be better overall.
For me these are features rather than bugs. A Str Fighter might also want a 2-level Barb dip for Reckless for example. 2 level Monk dip for a BA unarmed strike could be a lot of fun on a Moon Druid, giving them a grapple or shove attempt before they multiattack!
That's why I'm "concerned" rather than denouncing it; it's a tough thing to judge so early though. I think part of the issue is that they've lifted some restrictions that, while great for Monk, may also make it more exploitable for multiclassing as well.
For example, all of the bonus action attacks are now completely unrestricted in when you use them; a good boon for pure Monk, but also fantastic on any multiclass with a class that didn't have many bonus actions of its own. I think it might make more sense to meet in the middle somewhere, for example, bonus action attacks can be used after the Attack, Dash, Dodge, or any Monk action.
After all, the Monk's access to extra unarmed strikes is supposed to be compensating for our lack of weapon attacks (and weapon mastery) but a Fighter with two shortswords using Nick can make five attacks without Action Surging. And I'm not even sure what kind of exploits we could see from casters that could do something like steel wind strike followed by a Flurry of Blows (there's almost definitely something even stronger than that).
Keep in mind the one bonus action unarmed strike a monk gets is still dependant on being unarmored, not wearing a shield and using only unarmed strikes or only a monk weapon. I think that nerfs quite a bit of multiclassing issues. If someone wants to dip two levels into monk to get FOB twice per short rest and uncanny metabolism i dont think thats OP. 2 levels is a heavy investment not to mention the dex and wisdom requirements.
For example, all of the bonus action attacks are now completely unrestricted in when you use them; a good boon for pure Monk, but also fantastic on any multiclass with a class that didn't have many bonus actions of its own.
Martial Arts requires you to be unarmored and wielding only monk weapons. Technically you could use FoB when wearing armor, but those unarmed attacks will be using Strength and doing 1+Strength Modifier so it doesn't have a lot of value beyond grappling builds. I think most builds that don't use bonus actions for much (say, dex-based dueling or 2WF fighter) will find two levels of rogue a more useful investment.
Monks best gameplay is now clearly a skirmisher. For years we have debated were they really fit. With free disengage as a bonus action it’s clear they fit that play style best now. Monks should be using hit a run tactics more than trying to deal additional damage with with their bonus action. Anyone trying to Stunning Strike, Flurry of Blows, Deflect Attack every round is going to run out of points fast. Now they should attempt SS and if they succeed then FoB, but if they fail disengage and run away. The free bonus action attack should be used only when you believe it could kill or help the enemy before it’s turn or the disengage wouldn’t get you out of its range. Monks high mobility as hit and run skirmishers should be on display with this new design. This is not the play style I prefer for the monk, but it is the one the guided by the tools they have been given.
stunning strike then retreat is a lot worse than flurry of blows Flurry is 1-2 extra attacks and generally has a sub class tie in. Also monk still wants to get within 5ft every turn, so you don't want to run far enough to be safe. But it is a useful combo when you have a extremely dangerous enemy.
just saying, your general plan should be flurry, especially after 10. stunning is the special case version.
keep in mind, if this monk doesnt use flurry+stunning, their dps is pretty sub par.
but I get the feeling this monk isnt going to remain as is. Its a pretty decent dip, and pretty decent getting a dip. The thing that irks me is you pretty much must dip. Any class dip is going to be a huge deal, even warlock. Because they will unlock 2 masteries, plus some on hit bonus option. hunters mark, divine favor, twf , throwing fighting style, dueling, rage, The mastery means nick, which is a pretty big deal.
fighter basically adds an extra attack, second wind, and other masteries plus a level zero option for more fighting styles.
For example, all of the bonus action attacks are now completely unrestricted in when you use them; a good boon for pure Monk, but also fantastic on any multiclass with a class that didn't have many bonus actions of its own.
Martial Arts requires you to be unarmored and wielding only monk weapons. Technically you could use FoB when wearing armor, but those unarmed attacks will be using Strength and doing 1+Strength Modifier so it doesn't have a lot of value beyond grappling builds. I think most builds that don't use bonus actions for much (say, dex-based dueling or 2WF fighter) will find two levels of rogue a more useful investment.
I'm concerned it might be a bit front-loaded now; while it requires being unarmoured to get its 1st-level benefits, they are pretty decent if you're happy to make that trade (bonus action attack you can always use, can use Dexterity for grappling/shoving) which makes it very tempting for any Dexterity build. Hard to weigh up if that's a bad thing or not.
Likewise the 2nd-level is pretty tempting now too, mainly because Uncanny Metablism (rubbish name) lets you double Ki points and basically have Second Wind when rolling Initiative. Really I'm just concerned that a quick Monk dip on a Dexterity Fighter is still going to be better overall.
For me these are features rather than bugs. A Str Fighter might also want a 2-level Barb dip for Reckless for example. 2 level Monk dip for a BA unarmed strike could be a lot of fun on a Moon Druid, giving them a grapple or shove attempt before they multiattack!
That's why I'm "concerned" rather than denouncing it; it's a tough thing to judge so early though. I think part of the issue is that they've lifted some restrictions that, while great for Monk, may also make it more exploitable for multiclassing as well.
For example, all of the bonus action attacks are now completely unrestricted in when you use them; a good boon for pure Monk, but also fantastic on any multiclass with a class that didn't have many bonus actions of its own. I think it might make more sense to meet in the middle somewhere, for example, bonus action attacks can be used after the Attack, Dash, Dodge, or any Monk action.
After all, the Monk's access to extra unarmed strikes is supposed to be compensating for our lack of weapon attacks (and weapon mastery) but a Fighter with two shortswords using Nick can make five attacks without Action Surging. And I'm not even sure what kind of exploits we could see from casters that could do something like steel wind strike followed by a Flurry of Blows (there's almost definitely something even stronger than that).
Keep in mind the one bonus action unarmed strike a monk gets is still dependant on being unarmored, not wearing a shield and using only unarmed strikes or only a monk weapon. I think that nerfs quite a bit of multiclassing issues. If someone wants to dip two levels into monk to get FOB twice per short rest and uncanny metabolism i dont think thats OP. 2 levels is a heavy investment not to mention the dex and wisdom requirements.
ehhh the using monk weapon req thing isnt real any more, you can just unequip the weapon and use a BA. I can do greatsword*2 unequip and BA unarmed, or vice versa. The only thing stopping the monk from doing this is lack of proficiency.
Patient defense is great and thematic for monk but i am not sure there is still enough incentive to use it over other monk features.
Patient defense should be spend 1ki to bonus action dodge and make one unarmed strike.
Step of the wind should be free bonus dash or disengage and spend 1ki to do both.
With the martial arts die back on weapons I think we will see alot of monks dip one level into fighter for two weapon fighting style. Two weapon fighting plus SS + FOB is damage similar to 6 attacks, (or 7 attacks with the extra FOB at 10th level). It is 2ki per round, but there is potential for much better damage than the current version.
Someone else pointed out that access to martial weapons gives more access to feats. That is really good as many of the new feats require martial weapon proficiency.
Patient defense is great and thematic for monk but i am not sure there is still enough incentive to use it over other monk features.
Patient defense should be spend 1ki to bonus action dodge and make one unarmed strike.
Step of the wind should be free bonus dash or disengage and spend 1ki to do both.
With the martial arts die back on weapons I think we will see alot of monks dip one level into fighter for two weapon fighting style. Two weapon fighting plus SS + FOB is damage similar to 6 attacks, (or 7 attacks with the extra FOB at 10th level). It is 2ki per round, but there is potential for much better damage than the current version.
Someone else pointed out that access to martial weapons gives more access to feats. That is really good as quite a bit of the new feats require martial weapon proficiency.
yup, its 2ki, but even if you are saving Ki, you can make 4 attacks via nick. Its very hard to say its not a must to dip another class now.
The martial weapon change is good, but it also should have always been the case. its a fix for a problem they created in UA6
Monks best gameplay is now clearly a skirmisher. For years we have debated were they really fit. With free disengage as a bonus action it’s clear they fit that play style best now. Monks should be using hit a run tactics more than trying to deal additional damage with with their bonus action. Anyone trying to Stunning Strike, Flurry of Blows, Deflect Attack every round is going to run out of points fast. Now they should attempt SS and if they succeed then FoB, but if they fail disengage and run away. The free bonus action attack should be used only when you believe it could kill or help the enemy before it’s turn or the disengage wouldn’t get you out of its range. Monks high mobility as hit and run skirmishers should be on display with this new design. This is not the play style I prefer for the monk, but it is the one the guided by the tools they have been given.
You seem to think that the new monk isn't durable enough to be a front line fighter. It is; deflect attacks is really strong (and if critters ignore you and run past you... you can use stunning strike on an opportunity attack). As such, the only situation in which you should actually be skirmishing is if you can move far enough that no-one can be attacked. In which case, yeah, skirmishing is the way to go, but it always was.
I'm not at all sure that multiclass dips are the way to go. Sure, getting access to 2WF and weapon mastery is significant, but it's also slowing your monk progression and you wind up needing three magic weapons (two light weapons and monk wraps) instead of one.
ehhh the using monk weapon req thing isnt real any more, you can just unequip the weapon and use a BA. I can do greatsword*2 unequip and BA unarmed, or vice versa. The only thing stopping the monk from doing this is lack of proficiency.
FYI you do not need a free hand to make an Unarmed Strike, you can sword & board or hold a greatsword and still make unarmed strikes. An unarmed strike can be anything from a kick, to a headbutt, to a elbowing, to a knee to the groin. Only grappling requires a free hand. Everything else you can always do at any time.
They've definitely made monk more durable, but it does still have the problem that, other than magic, its only damage increase in tiers 3 and 4 is increased martial arts die.
They are boosted in T3/T4. They get a 5th attack at level 10, and that's on top of the extra damage they previously got for whiffing the stunning strike, both of which continue to scale up as you level. (And that's a whiff - obviously succeeding at the SS is even better.)
They've definitely made monk more durable, but it does still have the problem that, other than magic, its only damage increase in tiers 3 and 4 is increased martial arts die.
They are boosted in T3/T4. They get a 5th attack at level 10, and that's on top of the extra damage they previously got for whiffing the stunning strike, both of which continue to scale up as you level. (And that's a whiff - obviously succeeding at the SS is even better.)
A fifth attack isn't as impactful as you think when factoring in weapon masteries on other classes. But at least FoB doesn't have to compete with as many other bonus action options, it can truly be monk's way of maintaining damage. If they stick the landing on magical items for monks, there is actual hope here. I still think monk should get an extra reaction or bonus action as a feature. They don't get boosts in T3/T4 besides getting a slightly higher martial arts die tho.
Oh, well. I never hoped for anything, so I'm not even frustrated anymore.
Defense. Still d8 HP. Still MAD. Still paying the feat tax to have some AC. However, now the idea is that you use Deflect Attacks all the time, so this does help your defenses somewhat. One hit per round. Monks are definitely not equipped to be frontliners.
Offense. Monks use MA die with weapons again. Which means monks will never fight purely unarmed. At early levels, quarterstaff is better than fists, then the moment you find your first +1 weapon, you never even consider fighting unarmed anymore. As for cutting the weapon masteries, I believe the idea is that you can grapple or shove with your bonus action martial arts attack, now that it uses Dex for save DC, so it kinda substitutes the masteries. It might be worth sacrificing an ASI to get Grappler or Tavern Brawler. Also, hand crossbows are monk weapons now. Make of it what you will.
Movement. Now this has actually become better. Now you can finally legitimately claim that monk is "skirmisher", now that there is a resource-free disengage. You have to pay a bonus action, though, so no MA attack. Either fight or move around. Warrior of the Hand gets a free Dash action, which is useless, it's not like monks are short on move speed; should've been a free Disengage.
Resources. I won't lie, the crutch that is Uncanny Metabolism has become slightly better as it's accessible from level 2, and a lot of basic stuff has become free. Less stuff competes for your resources, although still it all competes for your bonus action. Stunning Strike compensation looks a bit weird to me though. Three FoB attacks seem like a slightly better competitor for Stunning Strike for when you just want the damage, though I'm not sure about this yet. Quivering Palm is still shit.
stunning strike then retreat is a lot worse than flurry of blows Flurry is 1-2 extra attacks and generally has a sub class tie in. Also monk still wants to get within 5ft every turn, so you don't want to run far enough to be safe. But it is a useful combo when you have a extremely dangerous enemy.
just saying, your general plan should be flurry, especially after 10. stunning is the special case version.
keep in mind, if this monk doesnt use flurry+stunning, their dps is pretty sub par.
but I get the feeling this monk isnt going to remain as is. Its a pretty decent dip, and pretty decent getting a dip. The thing that irks me is you pretty much must dip. Any class dip is going to be a huge deal, even warlock. Because they will unlock 2 masteries, plus some on hit bonus option. hunters mark, divine favor, twf , throwing fighting style, dueling, rage, The mastery means nick, which is a pretty big deal.
fighter basically adds an extra attack, second wind, and other masteries plus a level zero option for more fighting styles.
When you’re out of hp you can’t attack anymore. Hit and run tactics make sure that isn’t a problem for the high mobility monk. If you have a good healer you could stand your ground and dump FoB until your DP runs out. You could use Deflect Attack to mitigate damage, I wouldn’t advise spending DP on it since both FoB and SS are usually better for the DP cost. Also if your goal is DPR it’s better to FoB every turn with SS. Especially at lvl 10 plus when FoB gains an additional attack. The problem is SS is usually more important than DPR and the DP cost just for the attempt is worth it. Now that they added damage on a successful fail it makes the DP cost worth a every turn attempt. To me SS every turn is far more important than FoB every turn.
A fifth attack isn't as impactful as you think when factoring in weapon masteries on other classes. But at least FoB doesn't have to compete with as many other bonus action options, it can truly be monk's way of maintaining damage. If they stick the landing on magical items for monks, there is actual hope here. I still think monk should get an extra reaction or bonus action as a feature. They don't get boosts in T3/T4 besides getting a slightly higher martial arts die tho.
I missed the extra attack on FoB. I'd actually argue for increasing the discipline points for heightened discipline. Something like
Heightened Discipline
Starting at level 10, you may spend up to (monk level)/5 discipline points when using certain abilities that cost discipline points. The effects are as follows.
Flurry of Blows: each additional discipline point grants an additional unarmed attack.
Patient Defense: each additional discipline point grants 10 temporary hit points. If you have temporary hit points from this trait, redirecting attacks with deflect attack requires final damage no greater than your temporary hit points from this trait, rather than final damage of zero.
Step of the Wind: each additional discipline point increases your speed and jump distance by 10' (yeah, the carry thing just seems weird)
Deflect Attacks: when you redirect an attack, each additional discipline points adds two rolls of your martial arts die to the damage.
Stunning Strike: each additional discipline point adds one roll of your martial arts die to the damage. This additional damage occurs whether or not the target was stunned.
That means the extra discipline points you get at higher levels actually serve a purpose (currently, you aren't likely to run out of discipline points at level 10+) but also scales power with level all the way up to level 20 (though currently, a hand monk can use quivering palm every round, which will burn through discipline points pretty fast).
A fifth attack isn't as impactful as you think when factoring in weapon masteries on other classes. But at least FoB doesn't have to compete with as many other bonus action options, it can truly be monk's way of maintaining damage. If they stick the landing on magical items for monks, there is actual hope here. I still think monk should get an extra reaction or bonus action as a feature. They don't get boosts in T3/T4 besides getting a slightly higher martial arts die tho.
I missed the extra attack on FoB. I'd actually argue for increasing the discipline points for heightened discipline. Something like
Heightened Discipline
Starting at level 10, you may spend up to (monk level)/5 discipline points when using certain abilities that cost discipline points. The effects are as follows.
Flurry of Blows: each additional discipline point grants an additional unarmed attack.
Patient Defense: each additional discipline point grants 10 temporary hit points. If you have temporary hit points from this trait, redirecting attacks with deflect attack requires final damage no greater than your temporary hit points from this trait, rather than final damage of zero.
Step of the Wind: each additional discipline point increases your speed and jump distance by 10' (yeah, the carry thing just seems weird)
Deflect Attacks: when you redirect an attack, each additional discipline points adds two rolls of your martial arts die to the damage.
Stunning Strike: each additional discipline point adds one roll of your martial arts die to the damage. This additional damage occurs whether or not the target was stunned.
That means the extra discipline points you get at higher levels actually serve a purpose (currently, you aren't likely to run out of discipline points at level 10+) but also scales power with level all the way up to level 20 (though currently, a hand monk can use quivering palm every round, which will burn through discipline points pretty fast).
you are likely to run out of discipline forever. sub class features usually use ki, and they increase in cost as you level.
Even with full ki, monk is just on par (or slightly lower) with barbarian and fighter.
say you are a shadow monk, you use 3 ki in the first round, dropping a shadow, by 11, you will probably sometimes teleport punch for an extra ki.
repelling damage is also a ki use. So an interesting opening round of combat, can use 5 ki. Lets look at a high level open hand monk.
1ki flurry, 1 ki stunning, 3 ki quivering palm, 1ki counter hit (though maybe you want to save it for quivering palm) regardless, thats 5 to 6 ki per round. Long death can use up to 10 ki. 20 ki isnt all that.
10 ki is gone every combat, you can regen 1 per day, you are still extremely short rest dependent to be up to snuff
outside of that FOB feature, monk ki still essentially boils down to at max 1MAdie+mod per ki, per short rest, for most of its life. the only thing that actually increased monks DPS per KI is that feature. So essentially if monks were struggling to do enough enough damage with their ki before, the only thing improving that is the level 10 feature.
Essentially the damage potential of the monk per SR only has changed in 2.5 ways
1)metabolism gives one refil per day. In a party that short rests often, you are fine, in one that doesnt you get one get out of jail free card
2)the level 10 flurry boost, essentially doubles the damage from ki, if you only use flurry, however, that means less nova, and utility, this is fair
2.5) if you sub any other melee class, or take a mastery for nick, you get an extra MA die per turn without ki. This might help balance the monk's opportunity cost for not flushing ki, but since it has a pretty decent cost, many monks wont use it.
the monk is better, but its still highly dependent on ki, and will still struggle to manage it while still being effective post level 5.
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Nah, monks are in and out fighters. Rogues shouldn't be in the midst of things to begin with or only very selectively.
My point was really that it ought to be possible to do both; if the bonus action attacks work after all Monk actions and a few specific actions (similar to Fighter's updated Action Surge) then it's functionally identical as far as pure/primary Monks are concerned (you're still getting the bonus action whenever you want basically), but it would limit the potential abuse for multiclass dips.
That is kind of the point of Unearthed Arcana after all, to try and track down these kinds of issues before they make it to final print!
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With a 13 Dex and Wis requirement I’m not too worried with multiclass implications. Sure, rangers and Druids might benefit more but other classes, you would really have to build around to get Wis requirement.
I didn’t like Open Hands Fleet Step in the first UA but this version isn’t bad.
Edit1: now that I think of it, does Fleet Step basically make the Addle option of Open Hand Technique irrelevant? You can FoB and the SotW for free as part of the same BA.
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That's fair.
Keep in mind the one bonus action unarmed strike a monk gets is still dependant on being unarmored, not wearing a shield and using only unarmed strikes or only a monk weapon. I think that nerfs quite a bit of multiclassing issues. If someone wants to dip two levels into monk to get FOB twice per short rest and uncanny metabolism i dont think thats OP. 2 levels is a heavy investment not to mention the dex and wisdom requirements.
Martial Arts requires you to be unarmored and wielding only monk weapons. Technically you could use FoB when wearing armor, but those unarmed attacks will be using Strength and doing 1+Strength Modifier so it doesn't have a lot of value beyond grappling builds. I think most builds that don't use bonus actions for much (say, dex-based dueling or 2WF fighter) will find two levels of rogue a more useful investment.
stunning strike then retreat is a lot worse than flurry of blows Flurry is 1-2 extra attacks and generally has a sub class tie in. Also monk still wants to get within 5ft every turn, so you don't want to run far enough to be safe. But it is a useful combo when you have a extremely dangerous enemy.
just saying, your general plan should be flurry, especially after 10. stunning is the special case version.
keep in mind, if this monk doesnt use flurry+stunning, their dps is pretty sub par.
but I get the feeling this monk isnt going to remain as is. Its a pretty decent dip, and pretty decent getting a dip. The thing that irks me is you pretty much must dip. Any class dip is going to be a huge deal, even warlock. Because they will unlock 2 masteries, plus some on hit bonus option. hunters mark, divine favor, twf , throwing fighting style, dueling, rage, The mastery means nick, which is a pretty big deal.
fighter basically adds an extra attack, second wind, and other masteries plus a level zero option for more fighting styles.
ehhh the using monk weapon req thing isnt real any more, you can just unequip the weapon and use a BA. I can do greatsword*2 unequip and BA unarmed, or vice versa. The only thing stopping the monk from doing this is lack of proficiency.
Overall I am happy with this monk. I'm sure once we play test it a bit we will find some nit pics. But its really solid at first glance.
Patient defense is great and thematic for monk but i am not sure there is still enough incentive to use it over other monk features.
Patient defense should be spend 1ki to bonus action dodge and make one unarmed strike.
Step of the wind should be free bonus dash or disengage and spend 1ki to do both.
With the martial arts die back on weapons I think we will see alot of monks dip one level into fighter for two weapon fighting style. Two weapon fighting plus SS + FOB is damage similar to 6 attacks, (or 7 attacks with the extra FOB at 10th level). It is 2ki per round, but there is potential for much better damage than the current version.
Someone else pointed out that access to martial weapons gives more access to feats. That is really good as many of the new feats require martial weapon proficiency.
yup, its 2ki, but even if you are saving Ki, you can make 4 attacks via nick. Its very hard to say its not a must to dip another class now.
The martial weapon change is good, but it also should have always been the case. its a fix for a problem they created in UA6
You seem to think that the new monk isn't durable enough to be a front line fighter. It is; deflect attacks is really strong (and if critters ignore you and run past you... you can use stunning strike on an opportunity attack). As such, the only situation in which you should actually be skirmishing is if you can move far enough that no-one can be attacked. In which case, yeah, skirmishing is the way to go, but it always was.
I'm not at all sure that multiclass dips are the way to go. Sure, getting access to 2WF and weapon mastery is significant, but it's also slowing your monk progression and you wind up needing three magic weapons (two light weapons and monk wraps) instead of one.
FYI you do not need a free hand to make an Unarmed Strike, you can sword & board or hold a greatsword and still make unarmed strikes. An unarmed strike can be anything from a kick, to a headbutt, to a elbowing, to a knee to the groin. Only grappling requires a free hand. Everything else you can always do at any time.
A Moon Druid who dips monk to get BA grapple/shove that can key off Str or Dex seems like a fun idea to me.
They are boosted in T3/T4. They get a 5th attack at level 10, and that's on top of the extra damage they previously got for whiffing the stunning strike, both of which continue to scale up as you level. (And that's a whiff - obviously succeeding at the SS is even better.)
A fifth attack isn't as impactful as you think when factoring in weapon masteries on other classes. But at least FoB doesn't have to compete with as many other bonus action options, it can truly be monk's way of maintaining damage. If they stick the landing on magical items for monks, there is actual hope here. I still think monk should get an extra reaction or bonus action as a feature. They don't get boosts in T3/T4 besides getting a slightly higher martial arts die tho.
Getting a bonus attack as part of a feature named “Defense” seems backward.
You do PD as your bonus action, and can still attack with your Attack action. Seems appropriate to me.
Oh, well. I never hoped for anything, so I'm not even frustrated anymore.
When you’re out of hp you can’t attack anymore. Hit and run tactics make sure that isn’t a problem for the high mobility monk. If you have a good healer you could stand your ground and dump FoB until your DP runs out. You could use Deflect Attack to mitigate damage, I wouldn’t advise spending DP on it since both FoB and SS are usually better for the DP cost.
Also if your goal is DPR it’s better to FoB every turn with SS. Especially at lvl 10 plus when FoB gains an additional attack. The problem is SS is usually more important than DPR and the DP cost just for the attempt is worth it. Now that they added damage on a successful fail it makes the DP cost worth a every turn attempt. To me SS every turn is far more important than FoB every turn.
I missed the extra attack on FoB. I'd actually argue for increasing the discipline points for heightened discipline. Something like
That means the extra discipline points you get at higher levels actually serve a purpose (currently, you aren't likely to run out of discipline points at level 10+) but also scales power with level all the way up to level 20 (though currently, a hand monk can use quivering palm every round, which will burn through discipline points pretty fast).
you are likely to run out of discipline forever. sub class features usually use ki, and they increase in cost as you level.
Even with full ki, monk is just on par (or slightly lower) with barbarian and fighter.
say you are a shadow monk, you use 3 ki in the first round, dropping a shadow, by 11, you will probably sometimes teleport punch for an extra ki.
repelling damage is also a ki use. So an interesting opening round of combat, can use 5 ki. Lets look at a high level open hand monk.
1ki flurry, 1 ki stunning, 3 ki quivering palm, 1ki counter hit (though maybe you want to save it for quivering palm) regardless, thats 5 to 6 ki per round. Long death can use up to 10 ki. 20 ki isnt all that.
10 ki is gone every combat, you can regen 1 per day, you are still extremely short rest dependent to be up to snuff
outside of that FOB feature, monk ki still essentially boils down to at max 1MAdie+mod per ki, per short rest, for most of its life. the only thing that actually increased monks DPS per KI is that feature. So essentially if monks were struggling to do enough enough damage with their ki before, the only thing improving that is the level 10 feature.
Essentially the damage potential of the monk per SR only has changed in 2.5 ways
1)metabolism gives one refil per day. In a party that short rests often, you are fine, in one that doesnt you get one get out of jail free card
2)the level 10 flurry boost, essentially doubles the damage from ki, if you only use flurry, however, that means less nova, and utility, this is fair
2.5) if you sub any other melee class, or take a mastery for nick, you get an extra MA die per turn without ki. This might help balance the monk's opportunity cost for not flushing ki, but since it has a pretty decent cost, many monks wont use it.
the monk is better, but its still highly dependent on ki, and will still struggle to manage it while still being effective post level 5.