Hello everyone! How's it going? I hope you're all doing well. I'm here to discuss the DnD One ranger, specifically the gloom stalker, and what we've seen from the ranger so far.
I find it genuinely interesting how the changes are coming to give more identity to the classes and subclasses. The warlock's Hex, which I'll talk about another time, and the ranger's Hunter's Mark are part of this identity scope I'm mentioning.
The "Hunter" ranger has synergy with Hunter's Mark, allowing them to discover the weaknesses, resistances, and so on, of the target. On the other hand, the 'Beast Master' ranger can now scale damage better with their companion along with Hunter's Mark, as this spell can provide a bonus of 3d6 damage that the companion can now take advantage of, dealing this bonus as force damage!
However, the gloom stalker has no synergy with the spell. My proposal would be to change the level 7 feature to have some connection with Hunter's Mark.
I believe the gloom stalker underwent a fair adaptation, becoming more consistent with a nerf to the explosive force of the dread ambush, compensated by greater consistency throughout the entire combat (rather than just the first turn).
Nevertheless, I think that perhaps some power synergy to hide from the creature marked by Hunter's Mark would be very interesting to add more flair to the subclass. Something like: "When in the condition of invisibility, the character cannot be easily located by the creature marked by Hunter's Mark. The creature must have a passive perception greater than the DC 'X' to locate the ranger. However, the creature can actively search for the hidden character, passing the DC to determine its location."
The DC could be passive stealth or a formula like Dex+10+prof.
Anyway, that's it. I felt a lack of interaction with Hunter's Mark in the gloom stalker and also a more attractive feature given the direction DnD One is taking and how the gloom stalker is currently situated.
Best regards to everyone, and may the dice roll in our favor!
The "Hunter" ranger has synergy with Hunter's Mark, allowing them to discover the weaknesses, resistances, and so on, of the target. On the other hand, the 'Beast Master' ranger can now scale damage better with their companion along with Hunter's Mark, as this spell can provide a bonus of 3d6 damage that the companion can now take advantage of, dealing this bonus as force damage!
However, the gloom stalker has no synergy with the spell. My proposal would be to change the level 7 feature to have some connection with Hunter's Mark.
Why do you think it needs it? While both Hunter and Beast Master interact with HM, Fey Wanderer doesn't, and it is Gloomstalker's thematic counterpart if we're going by the "pairings" they're planning for the new PHB.
In addition, both versions of Gloomstalker seem more aimed at being sneaky ambush predators. Announcing your presence with a loudly chanted debuff seems to be the antithesis of that.
It's not as if it has no synergy; if we assume the UA is sticking with hunter's mark as once per turn damage (rather than once per attack) then you're still getting extra damage same as any other Ranger, which already stacks with the extra damage you can get from Dread Ambusher in the first round.
That said, I'm hoping they put it back to being per attack as I always liked it for a two-weapon fighting Ranger, but in that case you want to be able to cast it in advance wherever possible, so I could see Gloom Stalker getting something like the ability to cast hunter's mark without vocal components (or using a somatic component instead) or similar?
I don't think they need much more than that though as going back to per-attack damage they'd benefit from having the extra first round attack.
Why do you think it needs it? While both Hunter and Beast Master interact with HM, Fey Wanderer doesn't, and it is Gloomstalker's thematic counterpart if we're going by the "pairings" they're planning for the new PHB.
In addition, both versions of Gloomstalker seem more aimed at being sneaky ambush predators. Announcing your presence with a loudly chanted debuff seems to be the antithesis of that.
Is Fey Wanderer available for DnD One, or are you referring to 5e? Because I'm discussing the standard DnD One.
Either way, Hunter's Mark is a bonus action spell, and the gloom stalker can use it on the first turn of the ambush. With the new weapon masteries, even if attacking with two weapons, they can currently spare the bonus action for that. On the other hand, my proposal was precisely to make the gloom stalker more thematic, and stating that it's not possible by replacing the level 7 feature doesn't seem very coherent to me.
It's not as if it has no synergy; if we assume the UA is sticking with hunter's mark as once per turn damage (rather than once per attack) then you're still getting extra damage same as any other Ranger, which already stacks with the extra damage you can get from Dread Ambusher in the first round.
That said, I'm hoping they put it back to being per attack as I always liked it for a two-weapon fighting Ranger, but in that case you want to be able to cast it in advance wherever possible, so I could see Gloom Stalker getting something like the ability to cast hunter's mark without vocal components (or using a somatic component instead) or similar?
I don't think they need much more than that though as going back to per-attack damage they'd benefit from having the extra first round attack.
We all know that the Gloom Stalker's invisibility doesn't prevent locating its position. So, marking the target would be a way for the Gloom Stalker to better hide from the target it decided to hunt, using its narrative stealth abilities against creatures. It wouldn't only be about not using verbal components, which I hadn't even considered and is quite interesting.
It would also mean being able to hide from the target without it knowing your location, without needing to roll for stealth.
However, this is an exploration of what could be replaced in the level 7 feature. I believe it's not thematic for the Gloom Stalker ranger and could be substituted for another feature that adds more narrative and mechanical interest to this subclass.
I agree with the OP but this runs the risk of reigniting a debate on whether Hunter's Mark should be a core Ranger feature OR just an optional Ranger spell (as it sort of was).
If it's to be a core feature then it needs to be redesigned to:
Not compete with other Ranger resources (spell slots - unless you want to go the Paladin route)
Not exclude other Ranger abilities/playstyles (i.e. not be concentration)
Be thematic to support Ranger fantasy but general enough to support different playstyles (some interesting ideas have already been made about making it a party wide support: +X to attack rolls Vs Marked target, etc)
Be customised/improved by Subclass (as OP notes, we're already partway there)
Have Ranger features that improve it at later levels and prevent it being an abusable dip (terrible execution but a start point with Foe Slayer)
If it's to just be an optional class spell:
Don't create class/subclass features that are wasted if you don't want to use HM! (Favoured Enemy, Foe Slayer, Hunter' Lore, Bestial Fury)
Don't design features that fail to scale (UA6 Favoured Enemy's free uses will only ever be 1st level +1d6/turn, making them a waste of concentration compared to other spells at higher tiers)
You might be able to tell I'd prefer it to be a core feature (that helps the Ranger's identity/playstyle issues) but am not heartbroken either way. I do, however, violently hate the current bastardised mix. Either remove Hunter's Mark features from the Ranger and replace them with something else, or make it a core feature complementary with other Ranger abilities/playstyles (rather than competitive) that's useful throughout.
Is Fey Wanderer available for DnD One, or are you referring to 5e? Because I'm discussing the standard DnD One.
Yes, Fey Wanderer is the 4th Ranger subclass that's going to be core in the OneD&D PHB (see UA6 packet pg. 43.) It was chosen to be the thematic counterpart to Gloomstalker as per Crawford's aside on thematic pairings in one of the UA videos.
Based on the four subclasses they chose, the pairings appear to be Beastmaster (pack leader) vs Hunter (lone wolf) // Fey Wanderer (Feywild) vs Gloomstalker (Shadowfell).
On the other hand, my proposal was precisely to make the gloom stalker more thematic, and stating that it's not possible by replacing the level 7 feature doesn't seem very coherent to me.
I understand your objective but I'm not seeing how a focus on Hunter's Mark gets you there. Not every ranger archetype has a big thematic tie to that spell, and feels a bit forced to try and insert one to all of them.
I agree with the OP but this runs the risk of reigniting a debate on whether Hunter's Mark should be a core Ranger feature OR just an optional Ranger spell (as it sort of was).
If it's to be a core feature then it needs to be redesigned to:
Not compete with other Ranger resources (spell slots - unless you want to go the Paladin route)
Not exclude other Ranger abilities/playstyles (i.e. not be concentration)
Be thematic to support Ranger fantasy but general enough to support different playstyles (some interesting ideas have already been made about making it a party wide support: +X to attack rolls Vs Marked target, etc)
Be customised/improved by Subclass (as OP notes, we're already partway there)
Have Ranger features that improve it at later levels and prevent it being an abusable dip (terrible execution but a start point with Foe Slayer)
If it's to just be an optional class spell:
Don't create class/subclass features that are wasted if you don't want to use HM! (Favoured Enemy, Foe Slayer, Hunter' Lore, Bestial Fury)
Don't design features that fail to scale (UA6 Favoured Enemy's free uses will only ever be 1st level +1d6/turn, making them a waste of concentration compared to other spells at higher tiers)
You might be able to tell I'd prefer it to be a core feature (that helps the Ranger's identity/playstyle issues) but am not heartbroken either way. I do, however, violently hate the current bastardised mix. Either remove Hunter's Mark features from the Ranger and replace them with something else, or make it a core feature complementary with other Ranger abilities/playstyles (rather than competitive) that's useful throughout.
I agree with all your points about the balancing of Hunter's Mark! Favored Foe must at least scale the damage of Hunter's Mark based on the Ranger's level. Moreover, I think it would only make sense for Favored Foe to use Hunter's Mark as a resource to be used by all Ranger subclasses and across all tiers (from level 1 to 20). The way this happens with the Hunter is quite interesting. For instance, the Hunter can use Favored Foe even in tier 5, aiming to discover the opponent's weaknesses and still gaining a damage bonus at the start (even if it wasn't high).
I believe it would be best for individual interaction and not in a group setting (like the accuracy bonus for the group). Anyway, I really hope they refine the Ranger so that Hunter's Mark becomes a properly interesting central resource, if that's the intention. Thanks for bringing up these points.
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Hello everyone! How's it going? I hope you're all doing well. I'm here to discuss the DnD One ranger, specifically the gloom stalker, and what we've seen from the ranger so far.
I find it genuinely interesting how the changes are coming to give more identity to the classes and subclasses. The warlock's Hex, which I'll talk about another time, and the ranger's Hunter's Mark are part of this identity scope I'm mentioning.
The "Hunter" ranger has synergy with Hunter's Mark, allowing them to discover the weaknesses, resistances, and so on, of the target. On the other hand, the 'Beast Master' ranger can now scale damage better with their companion along with Hunter's Mark, as this spell can provide a bonus of 3d6 damage that the companion can now take advantage of, dealing this bonus as force damage!
However, the gloom stalker has no synergy with the spell. My proposal would be to change the level 7 feature to have some connection with Hunter's Mark.
I believe the gloom stalker underwent a fair adaptation, becoming more consistent with a nerf to the explosive force of the dread ambush, compensated by greater consistency throughout the entire combat (rather than just the first turn).
Nevertheless, I think that perhaps some power synergy to hide from the creature marked by Hunter's Mark would be very interesting to add more flair to the subclass. Something like:
"When in the condition of invisibility, the character cannot be easily located by the creature marked by Hunter's Mark. The creature must have a passive perception greater than the DC 'X' to locate the ranger. However, the creature can actively search for the hidden character, passing the DC to determine its location."
The DC could be passive stealth or a formula like Dex+10+prof.
Anyway, that's it. I felt a lack of interaction with Hunter's Mark in the gloom stalker and also a more attractive feature given the direction DnD One is taking and how the gloom stalker is currently situated.
Best regards to everyone, and may the dice roll in our favor!
Why do you think it needs it? While both Hunter and Beast Master interact with HM, Fey Wanderer doesn't, and it is Gloomstalker's thematic counterpart if we're going by the "pairings" they're planning for the new PHB.
In addition, both versions of Gloomstalker seem more aimed at being sneaky ambush predators. Announcing your presence with a loudly chanted debuff seems to be the antithesis of that.
It's not as if it has no synergy; if we assume the UA is sticking with hunter's mark as once per turn damage (rather than once per attack) then you're still getting extra damage same as any other Ranger, which already stacks with the extra damage you can get from Dread Ambusher in the first round.
That said, I'm hoping they put it back to being per attack as I always liked it for a two-weapon fighting Ranger, but in that case you want to be able to cast it in advance wherever possible, so I could see Gloom Stalker getting something like the ability to cast hunter's mark without vocal components (or using a somatic component instead) or similar?
I don't think they need much more than that though as going back to per-attack damage they'd benefit from having the extra first round attack.
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Is Fey Wanderer available for DnD One, or are you referring to 5e? Because I'm discussing the standard DnD One.
Either way, Hunter's Mark is a bonus action spell, and the gloom stalker can use it on the first turn of the ambush. With the new weapon masteries, even if attacking with two weapons, they can currently spare the bonus action for that. On the other hand, my proposal was precisely to make the gloom stalker more thematic, and stating that it's not possible by replacing the level 7 feature doesn't seem very coherent to me.
We all know that the Gloom Stalker's invisibility doesn't prevent locating its position. So, marking the target would be a way for the Gloom Stalker to better hide from the target it decided to hunt, using its narrative stealth abilities against creatures. It wouldn't only be about not using verbal components, which I hadn't even considered and is quite interesting.
It would also mean being able to hide from the target without it knowing your location, without needing to roll for stealth.
However, this is an exploration of what could be replaced in the level 7 feature. I believe it's not thematic for the Gloom Stalker ranger and could be substituted for another feature that adds more narrative and mechanical interest to this subclass.
I agree with the OP but this runs the risk of reigniting a debate on whether Hunter's Mark should be a core Ranger feature OR just an optional Ranger spell (as it sort of was).
If it's to be a core feature then it needs to be redesigned to:
If it's to just be an optional class spell:
You might be able to tell I'd prefer it to be a core feature (that helps the Ranger's identity/playstyle issues) but am not heartbroken either way. I do, however, violently hate the current bastardised mix. Either remove Hunter's Mark features from the Ranger and replace them with something else, or make it a core feature complementary with other Ranger abilities/playstyles (rather than competitive) that's useful throughout.
Yes, Fey Wanderer is the 4th Ranger subclass that's going to be core in the OneD&D PHB (see UA6 packet pg. 43.) It was chosen to be the thematic counterpart to Gloomstalker as per Crawford's aside on thematic pairings in one of the UA videos.
Based on the four subclasses they chose, the pairings appear to be Beastmaster (pack leader) vs Hunter (lone wolf) // Fey Wanderer (Feywild) vs Gloomstalker (Shadowfell).
I understand your objective but I'm not seeing how a focus on Hunter's Mark gets you there. Not every ranger archetype has a big thematic tie to that spell, and feels a bit forced to try and insert one to all of them.
I agree with all your points about the balancing of Hunter's Mark! Favored Foe must at least scale the damage of Hunter's Mark based on the Ranger's level. Moreover, I think it would only make sense for Favored Foe to use Hunter's Mark as a resource to be used by all Ranger subclasses and across all tiers (from level 1 to 20). The way this happens with the Hunter is quite interesting. For instance, the Hunter can use Favored Foe even in tier 5, aiming to discover the opponent's weaknesses and still gaining a damage bonus at the start (even if it wasn't high).
I believe it would be best for individual interaction and not in a group setting (like the accuracy bonus for the group). Anyway, I really hope they refine the Ranger so that Hunter's Mark becomes a properly interesting central resource, if that's the intention. Thanks for bringing up these points.