Sounds like Chain was moved down to level 1 as well, so it doesn't have to live as a second class citizen behind blade and tome.
I just wish they had done something to give a mechanical reason for something other than imp, maybe the magic cat is the next imp. But really everything else is just not mechanically on imps level currently. That being said as a invocation if I wasn't planning on really diving into it, just take the pact and stop its not a big deal its just a role playing choice.
Well they did say they were updating monsters. So the other options could be seeing an update. Further, The cat and the Skeleton options are both still solid options compared to the imp.
But you are correct, they need to make the poisonous snake, the slaadpole, the sprite, the quasit and the pseudodragon more powerful to stand against the others as options.
I have not seen the magic cats stats but there is a niche for skeleton that is true. If you want a medium sized weapon user its not bad. I think imp is still the winner overall(except the cat which i have not seen), but yeah skeleton can work. The rest though just feel bad in comparison, so hopefully they do give them some love.
I am also personally curious how the find familiar spell has been re-written and what other higher level invocations for chain exist, because some of the options shown in the playtest just would not have worked at all with certain options.
Imo the "optimum familiar issue" isn't an issue since we've already established that Chain is the least optimum pick; ergo if you took it, clearly you're not looking to optimize and are more interested in flavor/roleplay. Besides, none of the chain picks are really all that helpful after 1st tier, so it's not like it seriously impacts play in any case.
Imo the "optimum familiar issue" isn't an issue since we've already established that Chain is the least optimum pick; ergo if you took it, clearly you're not looking to optimize and are more interested in flavor/roleplay. Besides, none of the chain picks are really all that helpful after 1st tier, so it's not like it seriously impacts play in any case.
I disagree with that. A invisible scout that you can see through its eyes with is pretty dang good. It might not be as good as arcane eye at will but its close.
Thanks. If you don't plan on using your familiar as a invisible scout this is a solid choice. Having both the arcana and religion skills at +4 is pretty nifty at many levels, a reaction +2 to your saves can be clutch especially since its not your reaction. Kind of funny though assuming there are not limits to it warlocks will a pretty bad ass creature in the imp, cat, skeleton at level 1 that can probably handle itself better than the warlock. Unless some invocations scale it decently though, that will be short lived and i'd likely switch to a invisible model so it can survive.
Imo the "optimum familiar issue" isn't an issue since we've already established that Chain is the least optimum pick; ergo if you took it, clearly you're not looking to optimize and are more interested in flavor/roleplay. Besides, none of the chain picks are really all that helpful after 1st tier, so it's not like it seriously impacts play in any case.
I disagree with that. A invisible scout that you can see through its eyes with is pretty dang good. It might not be as good as arcane eye at will but its close.
I'm not saying it's not good, I'm saying they don't need to be homogenized to a single standard of power because you're not taking that boon/invocation for the power, you're taking it because you want a fancy familiar- most likely one that corresponds to your patron.
Imo the "optimum familiar issue" isn't an issue since we've already established that Chain is the least optimum pick; ergo if you took it, clearly you're not looking to optimize and are more interested in flavor/roleplay. Besides, none of the chain picks are really all that helpful after 1st tier, so it's not like it seriously impacts play in any case.
I disagree with that. A invisible scout that you can see through its eyes with is pretty dang good. It might not be as good as arcane eye at will but its close.
I'm not saying it's not good, I'm saying they don't need to be homogenized to a single standard of power because you're not taking that boon/invocation for the power, you're taking it because you want a fancy familiar- most likely one that corresponds to your patron.
I disagree, I have found that the chain and tome used to be fairly even in power depending on the type of game you are playing. That invisible flying scout with hands usually provided a lot more utility for me than a couple ritual spells and cantrips provided by tome. Both also ended up being primarily caster focused so utility was what we were trying to get from those pacts to begin with. The new tome may change this with it giving actual extra slots, but this is why I am so curious as to what the additions to the chain familiar is to keep it as a viable option along side tome like it was in the 2014 version.
Imo the "optimum familiar issue" isn't an issue since we've already established that Chain is the least optimum pick; ergo if you took it, clearly you're not looking to optimize and are more interested in flavor/roleplay. Besides, none of the chain picks are really all that helpful after 1st tier, so it's not like it seriously impacts play in any case.
I disagree with that. A invisible scout that you can see through its eyes with is pretty dang good. It might not be as good as arcane eye at will but its close.
I'm not saying it's not good, I'm saying they don't need to be homogenized to a single standard of power because you're not taking that boon/invocation for the power, you're taking it because you want a fancy familiar- most likely one that corresponds to your patron.
I disagree, I have found that the chain and tome used to be fairly even in power depending on the type of game you are playing. That invisible flying scout with hands usually provided a lot more utility for me than a couple ritual spells and cantrips provided by tome. Both also ended up being primarily caster focused so utility was what we were trying to get from those pacts to begin with. The new tome may change this with it giving actual extra slots, but this is why I am so curious as to what the additions to the chain familiar is to keep it as a viable option along side tome like it was in the 2014 version.
Well in the new version they don't compete with each other, you can take both and.
I don't understand why you feel like chain is not as good as tome. I think both chain and tome have equal levels of value, depending on how you want to play. I've played both. I like both. I tend to prefer chain, but I also tend to MC my warlocks a lot, and that waters down what tome gives you. I really like the value that Imp gives me. I do feel like the other special familiars tend to lack in the face of imp. Sphinx will be a competitor though, with that +2 to saves as a reaction, even if it's only 2x/day.
Even without sphinx though, imp's good enough that for most of my characters, it's the take over tome.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I don't understand why you feel like chain is not as good as tome. I think both chain and tome have equal levels of value, depending on how you want to play. I've played both. I like both. I tend to prefer chain, but I also tend to MC my warlocks a lot, and that waters down what tome gives you. I really like the value that Imp gives me. I do feel like the other special familiars tend to lack in the face of imp. Sphinx will be a competitor though, with that +2 to saves as a reaction, even if it's only 2x/day.
Even without sphinx though, imp's good enough that for most of my characters, it's the take over tome.
Yeah the imp is pretty insane. It cam fly, is invisible, has some resistances so can survive a hit, it has hands. It can turn into a spider which allows it to get into almost anywhere. It actually has an okay attack, being invisible helps with the whole deliver touch spells part etc.
Also Everyone can Ritual cast as long as they have the spells on their list so with that extra spell list space you get with your subclass you can pick up some Ritual spells. No class is "Weaker" than their 2014 version other than the Paladin but Smite was broken. Some sub-classes are." But those subclasses are also currently broken. Ranger is still "weak" but that can be fixed by removing concentration from hunters mark for them. It's 2024 version is still stronger than its 2014 version though.
I would argue that Paladin is still better than it was with the other things it 's getting now. I've never seen any of our paladins go completely nova in one round; ours mostly dropped them on crits. This is essentially a non change for both tables I play at.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Well they did say they were updating monsters. So the other options could be seeing an update. Further, The cat and the Skeleton options are both still solid options compared to the imp.
But you are correct, they need to make the poisonous snake, the slaadpole, the sprite, the quasit and the pseudodragon more powerful to stand against the others as options.
I have not seen the magic cats stats but there is a niche for skeleton that is true. If you want a medium sized weapon user its not bad. I think imp is still the winner overall(except the cat which i have not seen), but yeah skeleton can work. The rest though just feel bad in comparison, so hopefully they do give them some love.
Here you go. The first look at the Sphinx of Wonder in all of it's cute glory.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Deleted for redundancy Lia got you.
Or you can look at this
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I am also personally curious how the find familiar spell has been re-written and what other higher level invocations for chain exist, because some of the options shown in the playtest just would not have worked at all with certain options.
Imo the "optimum familiar issue" isn't an issue since we've already established that Chain is the least optimum pick; ergo if you took it, clearly you're not looking to optimize and are more interested in flavor/roleplay. Besides, none of the chain picks are really all that helpful after 1st tier, so it's not like it seriously impacts play in any case.
I disagree with that. A invisible scout that you can see through its eyes with is pretty dang good. It might not be as good as arcane eye at will but its close.
Thanks. If you don't plan on using your familiar as a invisible scout this is a solid choice. Having both the arcana and religion skills at +4 is pretty nifty at many levels, a reaction +2 to your saves can be clutch especially since its not your reaction. Kind of funny though assuming there are not limits to it warlocks will a pretty bad ass creature in the imp, cat, skeleton at level 1 that can probably handle itself better than the warlock. Unless some invocations scale it decently though, that will be short lived and i'd likely switch to a invisible model so it can survive.
I'm not saying it's not good, I'm saying they don't need to be homogenized to a single standard of power because you're not taking that boon/invocation for the power, you're taking it because you want a fancy familiar- most likely one that corresponds to your patron.
I disagree, I have found that the chain and tome used to be fairly even in power depending on the type of game you are playing. That invisible flying scout with hands usually provided a lot more utility for me than a couple ritual spells and cantrips provided by tome. Both also ended up being primarily caster focused so utility was what we were trying to get from those pacts to begin with. The new tome may change this with it giving actual extra slots, but this is why I am so curious as to what the additions to the chain familiar is to keep it as a viable option along side tome like it was in the 2014 version.
familiars are extremely strong played well. Specially now they can attack.
Well in the new version they don't compete with each other, you can take both and.
I don't understand why you feel like chain is not as good as tome. I think both chain and tome have equal levels of value, depending on how you want to play. I've played both. I like both. I tend to prefer chain, but I also tend to MC my warlocks a lot, and that waters down what tome gives you. I really like the value that Imp gives me. I do feel like the other special familiars tend to lack in the face of imp. Sphinx will be a competitor though, with that +2 to saves as a reaction, even if it's only 2x/day.
Even without sphinx though, imp's good enough that for most of my characters, it's the take over tome.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
yes, they are both very good
Yeah the imp is pretty insane. It cam fly, is invisible, has some resistances so can survive a hit, it has hands. It can turn into a spider which allows it to get into almost anywhere. It actually has an okay attack, being invisible helps with the whole deliver touch spells part etc.
Also Everyone can Ritual cast as long as they have the spells on their list so with that extra spell list space you get with your subclass you can pick up some Ritual spells. No class is "Weaker" than their 2014 version other than the Paladin but Smite was broken. Some sub-classes are." But those subclasses are also currently broken. Ranger is still "weak" but that can be fixed by removing concentration from hunters mark for them. It's 2024 version is still stronger than its 2014 version though.
I would argue that Paladin is still better than it was with the other things it 's getting now. I've never seen any of our paladins go completely nova in one round; ours mostly dropped them on crits. This is essentially a non change for both tables I play at.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
The general smite upgrades are a big plus, should have people experimenting with them some more.