I just wanted to know what some people thought of the changes they made to the Warlock for One-Dnd in Unearthed Arcana 7. I personally think its a downgrade compared to the original version.
Pluses: 1. Invocation at level 1 2. Prepared caster 3. Magical cunning to recover a spell slot between rests 4. Ritual casting 5. Blade Pact gives attacks with Charisma to everyone, and gives mastery of the weapons
Minuses: 1. No subclass at level 1 2. Minor changes to the invocations (some left off because they came out in Tasha's/Xan's)
Neutral: Spell progression, hit dice, weapons, armor, cantrips, mystic arcanum all the same.
Overal I read it as an improvement. The biggest loss is no subclass at level 1. Instead you get an invocation level 1. After a brief dalliance with making EB a class ability tied only to class level that appears to be gone. I am not sure I like the removal of some of the spell invocations (I really liked eldritch sight), but those don't really take away from the class as a whole too badly. GOO and Fey got a boost in power. Fiend got a nerf to hurl through hell. Celestial is about the same.
I much prefer warlock as it is, I did not want any changes made to it, I love the the class as it is. I really, really hope they don't mess too much with it. I love absolutely love that you have a small amount of spells slots, strong invocations, all you slots are max level and they come back on short rests.
Ritual casting is great, I always play pact of the tome, Love the fact that i can get rituals from all spell lists.
Prepared casting is literally the bane of my existence the pact changes they might be making will likely make me stay with 5ed warlock and not play one dnd warlock.
The invocation changes seem oke, yep no sub class at level 1 sucks, and makes no sense - who are you getting your magics from until level 3?!
Pluses: 1. Invocation at level 1 2. Prepared caster 3. Magical cunning to recover a spell slot between rests 4. Ritual casting 5. Blade Pact gives attacks with Charisma to everyone, and gives mastery of the weapons
Minuses: 1. No subclass at level 1 2. Minor changes to the invocations (some left off because they came out in Tasha's/Xan's)
Neutral: Spell progression, hit dice, weapons, armor, cantrips, mystic arcanum all the same.
Overal I read it as an improvement. The biggest loss is no subclass at level 1. Instead you get an invocation level 1. After a brief dalliance with making EB a class ability tied only to class level that appears to be gone. I am not sure I like the removal of some of the spell invocations (I really liked eldritch sight), but those don't really take away from the class as a whole too badly. GOO and Fey got a boost in power. Fiend got a nerf to hurl through hell. Celestial is about the same.
1, yes but now you need to spend an invcation to get a boon so it's a wash 2 It's not a perpared caster the like a druid/cleric, it's the same as it is now: "Changing Your Prepared Spells. Whenever you gain a Warlock level, you can replace one spell on your list with another Warlock spell of an eligible level."
The big one is: -LESSONS OF THE FIRST ONES (Prerequisite: Level 2+ Warlock You have received knowledge from an elder entity of the multiverse, allowing you to gain one feat of your choice, such as Skilled, that lacks prerequisites. Repeatable. You can gain this invocation more than once. Each time you do so, you must select a different eligible feat.) So a level 5 warlock can get 4 feats, from invocations alone.
-Subclass spell list is now prepped -magical cunning -subclasses improved -Pact boons are now way better and you get with an invocation. This means that you can get 3 of them at level 2 if you want
The issue is that it doesn't really do much to make it worth mono-classing warlock. Spell list is still not good, mystic arcanum is still bad. The changes also makes it even better for a 1-2 or 5 level for multiclassing. Sorcerers, bards and paladins with 1-2 levels in warlock is going to be all over the place for the extra feats, boons, and eldritch blast buff.
I much prefer warlock as it is, I did not want any changes made to it, I love the the class as it is. I really, really hope they don't mess too much with it. I love absolutely love that you have a small amount of spells slots, strong invocations, all you slots are max level and they come back on short rests.
Ritual casting is great, I always play pact of the tome, Love the fact that i can get rituals from all spell lists.
Prepared casting is literally the bane of my existence the pact changes they might be making will likely make me stay with 5ed warlock and not play one dnd warlock.
The invocation changes seem oke, yep no sub class at level 1 sucks, and makes no sense - who are you getting your magics from until level 3?!
Just so you are aware the Warlock in playtest 7 was not a prepared caster. They called everything "prepared" but it still functions 100% like the known spells casting of current 5e where you only changed spells on level up. Everyone in One DnD gets to ritual cast, and pact of the tome could now get ritual spells from any list WITHOUT needing to spend their pact boon AND an invocation it now just takes an invocation (of which you get 2 extra one which will likely be taken for a pact boon and 1 more than you used to get before). Also Paladin's never got their oath till level 3 yet their powers come from their oath as well. You have a pact from something that doesn't mean that something has granted you its specific powers yet. It is the same with a wizard. They studied magic to get magic yet they don't have a school yet? or a bard and their college or any other class and their subclass. There is no reason the being you have a pact with can't grant you magic and still not grant you specific pact boons until you reach a higher level.
Pluses: 1. Invocation at level 1 2. Prepared caster 3. Magical cunning to recover a spell slot between rests 4. Ritual casting 5. Blade Pact gives attacks with Charisma to everyone, and gives mastery of the weapons
Minuses: 1. No subclass at level 1 2. Minor changes to the invocations (some left off because they came out in Tasha's/Xan's)
Neutral: Spell progression, hit dice, weapons, armor, cantrips, mystic arcanum all the same.
Overal I read it as an improvement. The biggest loss is no subclass at level 1. Instead you get an invocation level 1. After a brief dalliance with making EB a class ability tied only to class level that appears to be gone. I am not sure I like the removal of some of the spell invocations (I really liked eldritch sight), but those don't really take away from the class as a whole too badly. GOO and Fey got a boost in power. Fiend got a nerf to hurl through hell. Celestial is about the same.
1, yes but now you need to spend an invcation to get a boon so it's a wash 2 It's not a perpared caster the like a druid/cleric, it's the same as it is now: "Changing Your Prepared Spells. Whenever you gain a Warlock level, you can replace one spell on your list with another Warlock spell of an eligible level."
1. but you get 2 extra invocations by level 5. so it is still a +1 AND you can take more than a single pact boon if you want. So it is a bonus.
Edit: of course things that haven't been mentioned yet is the subclasses granting the spells in their list without them counting against your spells known meaning you have more spells available at all levels. Or the ability to recover some spells in 1 minute. Honestly, it is baffling how anyone can see the playtest 7 warlock as anything but a direct upgrade to the current warlock.
I had to read the stuff again, to refresh my mind and i think i agree i changed my mind seems mostly like a upgrade... I just didnt want them to change the short rest mechanics and pactmagic too much.
Gothyl? Hmmm, I thought I killed you 20 years ago.
Anyhow, I think that the new warlock is generally an upgrade over the old one. it's nowhere near the changes I'd have liked to see, and brings some negatives that I strongly dislike, but the sum is still a net positive.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
LOL in our campaign, the sword of the dales was inadvertently disenchanted. the DM threw an unholy hand at us, I attacked it and he was...like, "Wait, you're attacking an unholy hand with the sword of the dales? Are you sure?" Now, I know that's code for, "that's a bad idea and you shouldn't do that" but that's always felt metagamey to me. Plus, I didn't know what an unholy hand was even if I DID want to use player knowledge, so I said yes. And, the Sword of the Dales became a mundane sword. I'd assume if Gothyl was still bound to it...she wasn't anymore haha
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I loved the first iteration on onednd where the warlock was made a half-caster and there abilities and progression looked a lot more like the artificer than something just off the wall. I have never been a fan of 5e pact casting. They either need 1-2 more invocations known at each point or to be able to swap them on a long and maybe even short rest before I would honestly play one with the current and probably 2024 pact magic spell slots and progression. Now when it comes to pure RP, warlock is right up there with sorcerer, they are astoundingly fun! Mechanically though, the warlock is very lack luster.
I loved the first iteration on onednd where the warlock was made a half-caster and there abilities and progression looked a lot more like the artificer than something just off the wall. I have never been a fan of 5e pact casting. They either need 1-2 more invocations known at each point or to be able to swap them on a long and maybe even short rest before I would honestly play one with the current and probably 2024 pact magic spell slots and progression. Now when it comes to pure RP, warlock is right up there with sorcerer, they are astoundingly fun! Mechanically though, the warlock is very lack luster.
The cool thing is that the playtest 7 warlock did have 1 or 2 more invocations known at each level. Even if we don't count the 1 extra that you use for your pact at level 5 you get another extra invocation and you got another extra one at higher levels as well. Level 1-4 warlocks were already really strong that wasn't where they were struggling.
I just wanted to know what some people thought of the changes they made to the Warlock for One-Dnd in Unearthed Arcana 7. I personally think its a downgrade compared to the original version.
In what way was it a downgrade? It's pretty much strictly better than the 2014 PHB version (with only a couple of invocation nerfs) and the invocations in particular scale much better with e.g. Master of Myriad Forms (Alter Self At Will) dropping from a level 15(!) invocation to a level 5 one.
I loved the first iteration on onednd where the warlock was made a half-caster and there abilities and progression looked a lot more like the artificer than something just off the wall. I have never been a fan of 5e pact casting. They either need 1-2 more invocations known at each point or to be able to swap them on a long and maybe even short rest before I would honestly play one with the current and probably 2024 pact magic spell slots and progression. Now when it comes to pure RP, warlock is right up there with sorcerer, they are astoundingly fun! Mechanically though, the warlock is very lack luster.
The first iteration was just plain bad. The problem is that the warlock has the low level magic covered by Invocations to cast lower level spells at will (and the OneD&D Playtest 7 version fixed the "these don't scale so your next invocation is one that wasn't good enough for you last time" issue) but what they can't do without the high level slots is really bring it in the crunch. So what you ended up was a low level magic specialist.
And warlocks have problems either in games with no short rest (they are more than fine if you average 1/day) or people who go into them expecting a normal caster rather than taking them on their own terms. Easily my favourite class and the playtest version would have homogenised them, removing their playstyle.
The cool thing is that the playtest 7 warlock did have 1 or 2 more invocations known at each level. Even if we don't count the 1 extra that you use for your pact at level 5 you get another extra invocation and you got another extra one at higher levels as well. Level 1-4 warlocks were already really strong that wasn't where they were struggling.
Yup. An extra invocation at level 5 (plus a better choice of invocations), and Contact Patron 1/day at level 9 for a free fifth level divination to use just before you go to sleep at night and possibly Arcane Eye as an at will invocation/spell. And with polishing of the subclasses the doldrums are basically level 7-8 rather than pretty much 5-10 (and even at level 7 you get to style on the enemy if you pick up Speak With Dead as an At Will as that dropped from level 9).
There is also a stealth fix by giving every class something they can get back on a short rest - so as long as the DM doesn't have a mad on against the short rest, the party itself shouldn't be as adverse to taking them.
There is also a stealth fix by giving every class something they can get back on a short rest - so as long as the DM doesn't have a mad on against the short rest, the party itself shouldn't be as adverse to taking them.
Ya this has been a very big truth. The Paladin that was just revealed had a lot of once per long rest abilities that were rolled into their channel divinity feature and they recover 1 of those on a short rest. Honestly, the 4 classes I am waiting for them to reveal more about are the Monk, Warlock, Ranger and Druid.
in my games we changed short rest to 30 minutes down from 1 hour.
My DM did something similar - he went with Critical Role's house rule which reduces a short rest to 15 minutes. Of course, this was in response to seeing the previous DM either have a one encounter per day or not enough time to loot the bodies before the next encounter for a short campaign. That one ended when a former player decided that not being able to do whatever he wanted, to whoever he wanted, meant he was being railroaded.
I loved the first iteration on onednd where the warlock was made a half-caster and there abilities and progression looked a lot more like the artificer than something just off the wall. I have never been a fan of 5e pact casting. They either need 1-2 more invocations known at each point or to be able to swap them on a long and maybe even short rest before I would honestly play one with the current and probably 2024 pact magic spell slots and progression. Now when it comes to pure RP, warlock is right up there with sorcerer, they are astoundingly fun! Mechanically though, the warlock is very lack luster.
pact casting is pretty terrible. I play warlock in spite of pact magic, because of other cool things like invocations and the various blade/chain/tome pacts.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I just wanted to know what some people thought of the changes they made to the Warlock for One-Dnd in Unearthed Arcana 7. I personally think its a downgrade compared to the original version.
I wonder how plummeting hundreds of feet feels
Pluses:
1. Invocation at level 1
2. Prepared caster
3. Magical cunning to recover a spell slot between rests
4. Ritual casting
5. Blade Pact gives attacks with Charisma to everyone, and gives mastery of the weapons
Minuses:
1. No subclass at level 1
2. Minor changes to the invocations (some left off because they came out in Tasha's/Xan's)
Neutral:
Spell progression, hit dice, weapons, armor, cantrips, mystic arcanum all the same.
Overal I read it as an improvement. The biggest loss is no subclass at level 1. Instead you get an invocation level 1. After a brief dalliance with making EB a class ability tied only to class level that appears to be gone. I am not sure I like the removal of some of the spell invocations (I really liked eldritch sight), but those don't really take away from the class as a whole too badly. GOO and Fey got a boost in power. Fiend got a nerf to hurl through hell. Celestial is about the same.
I much prefer warlock as it is, I did not want any changes made to it, I love the the class as it is. I really, really hope they don't mess too much with it. I love absolutely love that you have a small amount of spells slots, strong invocations, all you slots are max level and they come back on short rests.
Ritual casting is great, I always play pact of the tome, Love the fact that i can get rituals from all spell lists.
Prepared casting is literally the bane of my existence the pact changes they might be making will likely make me stay with 5ed warlock and not play one dnd warlock.
The invocation changes seem oke, yep no sub class at level 1 sucks, and makes no sense - who are you getting your magics from until level 3?!
1, yes but now you need to spend an invcation to get a boon so it's a wash
2 It's not a perpared caster the like a druid/cleric, it's the same as it is now:
"Changing Your Prepared Spells. Whenever you gain a Warlock level, you can replace one spell on your list with another Warlock spell of an eligible level."
It's an improvement
The big one is:
-LESSONS OF THE FIRST ONES (Prerequisite: Level 2+ Warlock You have received knowledge from an elder entity of the multiverse, allowing you to gain one feat of your choice, such as Skilled, that lacks prerequisites. Repeatable. You can gain this invocation more than once. Each time you do so, you must select a different eligible feat.) So a level 5 warlock can get 4 feats, from invocations alone.
-Subclass spell list is now prepped
-magical cunning
-subclasses improved
-Pact boons are now way better and you get with an invocation. This means that you can get 3 of them at level 2 if you want
The issue is that it doesn't really do much to make it worth mono-classing warlock. Spell list is still not good, mystic arcanum is still bad.
The changes also makes it even better for a 1-2 or 5 level for multiclassing. Sorcerers, bards and paladins with 1-2 levels in warlock is going to be all over the place for the extra feats, boons, and eldritch blast buff.
Just so you are aware the Warlock in playtest 7 was not a prepared caster. They called everything "prepared" but it still functions 100% like the known spells casting of current 5e where you only changed spells on level up. Everyone in One DnD gets to ritual cast, and pact of the tome could now get ritual spells from any list WITHOUT needing to spend their pact boon AND an invocation it now just takes an invocation (of which you get 2 extra one which will likely be taken for a pact boon and 1 more than you used to get before). Also Paladin's never got their oath till level 3 yet their powers come from their oath as well. You have a pact from something that doesn't mean that something has granted you its specific powers yet. It is the same with a wizard. They studied magic to get magic yet they don't have a school yet? or a bard and their college or any other class and their subclass. There is no reason the being you have a pact with can't grant you magic and still not grant you specific pact boons until you reach a higher level.
1. but you get 2 extra invocations by level 5. so it is still a +1 AND you can take more than a single pact boon if you want. So it is a bonus.
Edit: of course things that haven't been mentioned yet is the subclasses granting the spells in their list without them counting against your spells known meaning you have more spells available at all levels. Or the ability to recover some spells in 1 minute. Honestly, it is baffling how anyone can see the playtest 7 warlock as anything but a direct upgrade to the current warlock.
i think i agree, its an upgrade with out removing anything
I had to read the stuff again, to refresh my mind and i think i agree i changed my mind seems mostly like a upgrade... I just didnt want them to change the short rest mechanics and pactmagic too much.
Gothyl? Hmmm, I thought I killed you 20 years ago.
Anyhow, I think that the new warlock is generally an upgrade over the old one. it's nowhere near the changes I'd have liked to see, and brings some negatives that I strongly dislike, but the sum is still a net positive.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
If you remember I escaped! demi-shade walking about . . . XD
But yes I agree.
LOL in our campaign, the sword of the dales was inadvertently disenchanted. the DM threw an unholy hand at us, I attacked it and he was...like, "Wait, you're attacking an unholy hand with the sword of the dales? Are you sure?" Now, I know that's code for, "that's a bad idea and you shouldn't do that" but that's always felt metagamey to me. Plus, I didn't know what an unholy hand was even if I DID want to use player knowledge, so I said yes. And, the Sword of the Dales became a mundane sword. I'd assume if Gothyl was still bound to it...she wasn't anymore haha
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I loved the first iteration on onednd where the warlock was made a half-caster and there abilities and progression looked a lot more like the artificer than something just off the wall. I have never been a fan of 5e pact casting. They either need 1-2 more invocations known at each point or to be able to swap them on a long and maybe even short rest before I would honestly play one with the current and probably 2024 pact magic spell slots and progression. Now when it comes to pure RP, warlock is right up there with sorcerer, they are astoundingly fun! Mechanically though, the warlock is very lack luster.
The cool thing is that the playtest 7 warlock did have 1 or 2 more invocations known at each level. Even if we don't count the 1 extra that you use for your pact at level 5 you get another extra invocation and you got another extra one at higher levels as well. Level 1-4 warlocks were already really strong that wasn't where they were struggling.
In what way was it a downgrade? It's pretty much strictly better than the 2014 PHB version (with only a couple of invocation nerfs) and the invocations in particular scale much better with e.g. Master of Myriad Forms (Alter Self At Will) dropping from a level 15(!) invocation to a level 5 one.
The first iteration was just plain bad. The problem is that the warlock has the low level magic covered by Invocations to cast lower level spells at will (and the OneD&D Playtest 7 version fixed the "these don't scale so your next invocation is one that wasn't good enough for you last time" issue) but what they can't do without the high level slots is really bring it in the crunch. So what you ended up was a low level magic specialist.
And warlocks have problems either in games with no short rest (they are more than fine if you average 1/day) or people who go into them expecting a normal caster rather than taking them on their own terms. Easily my favourite class and the playtest version would have homogenised them, removing their playstyle.
Yup. An extra invocation at level 5 (plus a better choice of invocations), and Contact Patron 1/day at level 9 for a free fifth level divination to use just before you go to sleep at night and possibly Arcane Eye as an at will invocation/spell. And with polishing of the subclasses the doldrums are basically level 7-8 rather than pretty much 5-10 (and even at level 7 you get to style on the enemy if you pick up Speak With Dead as an At Will as that dropped from level 9).
There is also a stealth fix by giving every class something they can get back on a short rest - so as long as the DM doesn't have a mad on against the short rest, the party itself shouldn't be as adverse to taking them.
Ya this has been a very big truth. The Paladin that was just revealed had a lot of once per long rest abilities that were rolled into their channel divinity feature and they recover 1 of those on a short rest. Honestly, the 4 classes I am waiting for them to reveal more about are the Monk, Warlock, Ranger and Druid.
in my games we changed short rest to 30 minutes down from 1 hour.
My DM did something similar - he went with Critical Role's house rule which reduces a short rest to 15 minutes. Of course, this was in response to seeing the previous DM either have a one encounter per day or not enough time to loot the bodies before the next encounter for a short campaign. That one ended when a former player decided that not being able to do whatever he wanted, to whoever he wanted, meant he was being railroaded.
pact casting is pretty terrible. I play warlock in spite of pact magic, because of other cool things like invocations and the various blade/chain/tome pacts.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha