No I didn’t playtest my half caster version. I spent like 40 mins on version 1, and maybe an hour and a half on version 2. They concepts not a finished class. The UA version does not use the energy die or other features enough to feel different enough than wizard and sorcerer. The disciplines already feel like variant metamagic. The mode is similar to innate sorcery. I played the UA Psykineticist and felt like I could have just been a Wizard. You are allowed to like the Psion as it is in the UA, just like I’m allowed to not like it.
Back to the half caster versions I mocked up. I listened to your critique of version 1 and agreed with some of your points. You made those same points about version 2 which means you didn’t really read it. Which is okay. Its only purpose is to make whoever reads it have ideas. There is no obligation for you to read it. I find it odd for you to comment about if you didn’t read it though. Version 2 definitely isn’t resource starved. It does have too many. I tried to off set how many resources it has access to by making it a class that focuses on what it’s doing with its action economy. At level 5 when it runs out of regular ED it can use a bonus action to get a 1d4 ED. It can then use its next bonus action to roll that ED to get a level 1-3 spell slot with a 50% chance it would be level 3 slot. At level 7 or above that 25% chance to muster up 4th level spell slot with the 1d4 energy die. Version 2 is overpowered and I knew it when I wrote it. Also it’s no longer a gamble mechanic anymore than an attack roll or damage roll is a gamble mechanic. It’s a die roll that represents how much energy you gather to form this extra spell slot. The class also has regular spell slots that can be used. You could also use the 1d4 ED on any feature that rolls the ED. I don’t have to playtest version 2 to know it’s not balanced, it’s actually too strong but you somehow think resource starved. Also the reason to focus on rolling the ED is to highlight that as the primary thing this does, so it’s not just being a wizard or sorcerer saying I cast _____ at 3rd level. So far we have two classes that use ED in the game. Psi Warrior and Soul Knife. They don’t have Spellcasting as a feature. The Psion should be a class that heavily focuses on ED use and management, not just Spellcasting.
As far as making Psion a wizard subclass I don’t need 4 different subclasses to fulfill the fantasy. I already did a mock up of one that with the right spell selection covers 3. The only fantasy that can’t be covered by a single wizard subclass is the Metamorph.
Again if you like this Psion, good for you. I don’t. If they print this UA in a book it’s one I will skip it. You can purchase it.
i have a different point if view than you on the overall should this be a class or not, but thats not part of my critique of your caster version.
and i did read it, and then i compared to the UA psion in terms of resources. Its possible i missed something, but from what i can see;
it has the same amount of energy dice at the same levels., it can spend a BA to get a special weaker dice, it cant use this for all features because some features need multiple dice/dont roll dice
it can spend a BA to turn a ED into a spell slot. this means there is a lot of BA use and time between using features/spells.
You are focused on the class part, and not considering how ED interacts with the subclasses, and design elements. (in terms of how much you think ED use factors into the class)
in playtests, i spend more ED than spell slots per fight, and the ED is tied more to the psionic stuff. But i'll come back to there.
first lets look at the resources, lets take level 10
UA psion psiwarper has 8 dice that are d8s. it has 4:3:3:3:2 spells
Ain psion psiwarper has 8 dice that are d8s it has 4:3:2 spells. and one psychic dice.
in order to equal the amount of spells the UA psion has, it has to spend 6 dice that day.
so, the psion gets 8 dice, it recovers half its dice with ashort rest once a day, and 1 per SR. so it has a total of 8+5 ED per day, or 12. so 6/12 dice
now, you added the reserve die, but it only works when you have zero dice, and it doesnt work for features that expend the dice without rolling it, that means it doesnt work for any feature that uses more than 1 die.
Id insinuation, Psionic guards, Swift precognition, psionic backlash, Quickened healling, extend limbs/mutable form, Teleportation/teleportation combat, warp space, Duplicitous target, , Mass teleportaion, rebounding field, enhanced telekinetic crush, heightened telekinesis, mind infiltrator, scramble minds, Thats the list of features which wont work if you are using emergency dice. I believe thats more features than ones that will work with it. If you add a rule that you can roll reserve dice multiple times(but only expend one), you get back psionic backlash and rebounding field. And i think this also illustrates how much of this class interacts with ED, and how much psionic gameplay you are giving up since you are using the ED budget to create a spell management system.
that aspect aside, it means that the reserve dice doesnt give you the same access to your powers that the pure ED does,
So, why i think of it a gamble mechanic (and i dont mean that in a bad way, just in terms of the type of mini game it is) is because you are expending one known benefit, in exchange for a different benefit, with the hope that you gain something of greater value. And also within the context of, how can AIn psion equal or exceed the power of full caster? The 'win' here is rolling a max slot psychic slot, and what you can do is based on the result of that roll. in the case of the level 10 psion, they need to roll 2 times 5 or greater, 3 times 4 and 3 one time. in order to break even with a casters power level. lose condition is something less than that, win conddition, ideally, is to roll 6 Fives. And you did weigh the odds so that you''' probably, given 6 rolls, will roll 3 level 5s, 1-2 times roll 2 or less but thats on average in the actual play it will be fairly random, and adapting to that random would be a big part of playing that class.
now i dont really have a problem with this resource minigame in theory. For a class concept where the players pick it because they want this risk versus reward it might be interesting, but since the price to play the spell slot resource game is ED, it means playing the spell slot game reduces your ability to use all those features up above, and adds a BA penalty to using the ones not on that list. IE a lot use of psionic things.
that aside lets look at what my psiwarper lvl 10 did in one fight and see how that translates
Before the fight, she used lvl 4 summon astral entity for crystaline. (lvl 4 is two attacks, so its a big difference)
round 1 of the fight she uses warp propel as a BA to teleport a commoner from a cultist(1 ED), casts blink, and has the crystaline entity attacks 2x the cultist. as a reaction she uses psionic backlash to avoid an attack and deal damage (1 ED)
round 2 she uses steel wind strike on two targets, uses teleprter combat to do true strike (1 ED) crysatline entity attacks 2x
round 3 she uses psychic lance and teleprter combat( 1 ed)
Ain psion class, has to spend at least 1 dice to get a level 4 or higher slot, to cast crystaline entity before the fight (1ED) if they roll too low they reroll, or dont cast it. On average is 62% chance to roll 4 or higher. so between 1 and 2 ED, lets call it it 1.5 ED on average.
round 1 she can expend 1 ED to propel and one of her level 3 slots to blink, as reaction psionic backlash 1 ED entity attacks
round 2 she can use a BA to try to get a Steel wind strike, (1 ED) no teleporter combat (because it uses a BA) 50% chance she gets it. 50% chance she has to do something weaker with her action. 37% chance she doesnt have anything better than a t3 slot. (which she doesnt even have an offensive tvl 3 slot actually, only 1 spell on the list is offensive)
round 3 she can expend a ED to try to get a 4 or better slot, 62% chance, 37% chance another dud, no BA to use teleporter combat.
so, looking at this, to get similar gameplay, she spends 5.5 ED. she does less damage on average, and makes less use of teleporter combat, a main feature of the subclass. She is less of a psiwarper. However, she might have rolled big and had a stronger crystal entity (level 5), and rolled 2 steel wind strikes. (or a lvl 5 psychic lance)
so ideally your structure in this fight is worse on average, but has a higher peak use of Spells, its less psionic though as it uses its telport and cantrip for one ED less often. and has less psionic dice for future fights. it spends two BAs that could have been active psionics manipulating dice to break even.
now, i will say, this doesnt look at reserve dice use, which probably wont come into play until later encounters, and the payoff is better in later fights as a normal charachter might have run out of high level slots.
but reserve dice dont work with teleporter combat or extra misty step uses, warp propel also caps at 20 feet movment with reserve dice, and i cant use enhanced shatter. So at that point its mostly about rolling dice with bonus actions and hoping for something good from the spellcastingnlist.
and thats why i said what in my other post, the focus of the class becomes the dice minigame, and using full caster spells, not psionics, and the cost in terms of BAs and ED lowers your actual power level.
To me this concept would make more sense on a class that gambling or dice manipulation plays into the fantasy, or if on this class, it needs a big rework of features so that the BAs and use of resources are not in direct opposition to each other.
if the class had a seperate energy source for gambling that could work
or if the class (and subclasses) are redesigned to clash less with the spell slot minigame, it could work
but as presented, this doesnt make it more distinctly psionic than a wizard/sorcerer, it makes it more unique in that it gambles ED and action economy for spells and has to adapt to what the dice gods say (literally changing battle strategies based on what you roll) But it doesnt play nice with psionic
to me it seems the psionic stuff is an afterthought to you in the classes design, the core of the class, as i think you say(maybe i misunderstand you). is the resource management.
like if we look at the ain psion fight narratively, it tells a story of a charachter during the fight trying to dig deep to try to get enough power. to do something, and being surprised or dismayed and adapting to the results.
the UA psion tells the story of a charachter who warps all over the place, hitting enemies with surprising attacks and appearing somewhere else.
I get it now. We have very different thoughts on what’s necessary to make a class feel different than another. I read everything you did with your psy warper and thought a conjugation wizard does stuff like that. This UA establishes that psionics is synonymous with magic. That is fine, but it makes it much harder to differentiate the classes. The mechanics I made aren’t there to make the fantasy of being a psion feel more psionic, they are only there to differentiate the play style of psion and a wizard. If you think it’s good enough great. I don’t. Before they lock in something in a book I like to play around with what could be. I think there needs to be a very different mechanic between wizard and psion mainly because they honestly fill the same roles.
I’ll assume your numbers are correct about my version 2 because you took the time to run them. I would take time to week the numbers, but that’s not the point. The only reason I made it was to show there is another way that would actually feel like something new. Originally v2 was to differentiate to be a no spell slot concept, but that felt too messy. Now I thought about how I would do that. I will probably write it up after I get off work, but most likely won’t post it. Psion as a spellcaster either full or half is what most people seem to want on here. Plus if I make the class a without spell slots I have to redo all the subclasses as well. That takes up too much space on the forum for what is honestly just me typing out my thought experiments.
IMO this version of the Psion needs a fireball to the head. It is unbelievably clunky, over-complicated, and worst of all makes them an actual spellcaster instead of someone who uses their mind to unlock powers that transcend mere spells and gives them control over mind, body, and matter. Yes, they are similar to spellcasters in that they tap into supernatural power and perform miraculous feats. But the mechanics of how they do it should be very different!
Look, I am not opposed to the idea that wizards and psions share some effects. They can both use Detect Thoughts, for example, and the end result can pretty much look the same. But the mechanism that makes it happen isn't the same. Psionics are not spells. The design team did a fair job of creating a list of effects that correspond to an existing spell, I will freely admit. But piling the mess of psionic modes, psionic disciplines, psionic dice on top of what would otherwise be a lackluster spellcaster with psionic spells...? Ugh. I would not allow this muddled mashup of bad ideas anywhere near any campaign I'm running. I certainly wouldn't want to play one and have to manage all of those fiddly bits.
IMO, psionics should be treated as something that sits between the skill classes and the magic classes. They should have different mechanics. I actually like the Wild Talents except for the restriction that you can only have one. But make psionics more of a skill-based class with psionic techniques (Detect Thoughts) grouped under psionic disciplines (Telepathy). And by all means there should be a completely new aspect to combat when it comes down to mind-vs-mind psychic battles. This is what the Psion is missing.
PS. Severely dislike the Metamorph subclass. Needs a total makeover and lose the unnecessarily gross powers.
I posted this on reddit, but figured why not add it here since its dif community, feel ree to ask me any questions i may not have covered.
Psion solo playtest, lvl3, lvl6 lvl10, all subclasses.
Discussion
So, i decided to test the psion. Im doing it solo, Dming and controlling 4 charachters, this is mostly combat, though i did use 1 donjon 5 room random thing.
Each charachter was designed with moderate optimization, focusing on a famous charachters fanatsy concept.
metamorph: Dhalsim (stretching limbs, martial, but with mind and healing powers)
psiwarper: Magik, (ilyana new mutants xmen)
telepath: Psylocke, betsy braddock version
psikineticist Testuo Shima (akira)
the rating out of 5 is how much i felt like i was playing into the fantasy, having fun and being effective. not really a powerlevel
Lvl 3, the combat was pretty doable.it was a high difficulty fight, but the caster baseline is strong, and energy dice in addition.made it very doable, enemies are pretty simple at this point.
the telepath was able to easily shutdown people via sleep, and force failed saves with Id insinuation. though costly, it delivers. Command is a pretty bug deal. Telepathic hub at this point arent huge, i think detect thoughts without concentration for battle tactics and info is pretty solid, but since im playing both sides, and battles have little context i cant say much. Regardless, tele was solid, in execution and theme. 4/5
the psikineticist, did their job well, propeled enemies together than dropped cloud of daggers, probably an optimal use at this level of what it has. Provided the most damage probably. 3.5/5
psiwarper, misty stepped and did shatter, and used true strike, but didnt feel hugely like a teleporter yet. was effective, but didnt feel like a real teleporter yet. 3/5
metamorph, was sort of effective, but not specializing into ranged spells meant it had to wait for enemies to get close, especially since it can deal with all the aggro at once. swift precog was cool, but, they arent a top martial. 2/5
lvl 6, they start to feel more like the the fantasy. The fight wasnt too tough due to starting fairly far away, also high difficulty. By the time we finally got into close combat they had suffered a bit.
the psiwarper got to really feel special with BA cantrip bonus action misty steps, and some decent spells. This was a a Magik themed charachter though so they made good use of true strike with a blade as well. Cantrip scaling is here, so it feels a little better than a regular BA attack. Getting to rooftops, etc. This felt close to the fantasy, and she was never the easy target 5/5
telepath: was able to identify and shutdown the enemies fairly well. She usually seems likely she is doing less, but defense mode save buffs, shutdowns, and info gathering is top notch, she prefers being distant though, but still has to get sort of close to give buffs, so staying in range can be an issue. Very solid 5/5
psikinetic, attack mode is great with aoe/and movement at this level, stayed on model with an aggressive playstyle. this one had decent con, and tough and telekinetic crush reduced movements as they had to get up. 4/5
metamorph, again, having to get close to really do your thing makes your early rounds feel a lil ineffective, luck might be a factor, but it felt like enmies had harder times making saves than dodging attacks. Psionic Backlash is great for a single hit per round, but then the pain comes depending who you are fighting. he basically almost goes down here, due to a couple of attackers having no easier target But cantrip attacks are good in theory. 3/5
lvl 10. everyone is really doing their thing now and have enough features and stats to feel like their fantasy.
metamorph. i sort of rebuilt them here, focusing on dex instead of int. This combined with haste and the level 10 feature gave a strong base AC, and i took defensive duelist. with an option to go for toughness, speed, or evasion. The dex focus made my spells a couple accuracy less effective. So its slightly awkward. A spell like booming blade being a possible cantrip would help.
Also, lack of finesse simple weapons. i homebrewed the organic weapons being usable for true strike. So i would say that it needs some tweaks here. My big beef with INt is less the stat points, but there really arent good feats other than warcaster, which they kinda get, for a martial hybrid. That said, if was more fun being able to adapt defense, i think lvl 10 was solid. 4/5
telepath. Can really do some fun things, mostly from spells, but involving telepathy and scouting, was able to land sleep while being unable to see targets, as well as communicate to other charachters who couldnt see the enemies, with the illusion spell giving sight, they can actually cast some spells from relative saftey, definitely felt like the telpath suppport while not really in the mix 5/5
Psikinetic, otilukes was a big deal for getting past a fire wall, providing cover, then dropping it and destroying stuff. Not unique to psion, but felt pretty on brand, and energy dice really add to every bodies turns. 5/5
psiwarper. greater invis, teleports, escapes, hidden opportunity attacks. definitely on brand. i took psychic summon flavored as magiks demon, swapping places and wasting some turns. 5/5
overall the class feels pretty solid, it has a number of questionable writing and needs to be smoothed out.
i think psikinetic needs some more spells in the middle and early levels that feel TK damage related.
metamorph i have a lot of interest in, but it needs the most work, id make alter self concentration free, id let the the organic weapons work with blade cantrips, and id expand its spell list, more cantrips with other uses, more spells related to self buffs, or weird stuff. like spitting acid or death touches. Organics possibly need to be on more attacks, though many will use cantrips a lot. Should be able to be decent with a dex first build and an int first build without feeling offensively janky one way, and sorta off when you go offensive with int (useful feats)
telepath and psi warper to me fit the theme and playstyle well, with a lot to back it up in spells (thematically)
And again they make a Psion that is not a a psionic. They've made it a caster with a spell list and some extra's on top. It looks like an unholy cross between an Aberrant sorceror and a Wizard.
Sorry no. They should look at how 2nd edition did it and take a lesson from that. Not this.
Would this class work better if it were more like the Half Caster Warlock UA and added in a lot more Disciplines that utilize the Psionic Mechanic more? Seems to me that it would help it stand out from Wizard and Sorcerer more.
Just a thought
I totally agree with this idea. As a caster the Psion is generic and meh. As a separate class it could be very interesting. Allow Disciplines to bring in specific spells. Also include Disciplines that modify psychic abilities. At level 14 a Psion should be able to ignore force and psychic damage resistance and treat immunity to those two damage types as resistance. At 18th level a discipline could allow a Psion to Ignore immunity an resistance for force and psychic damage types. Sub-classes could add even more psionic dice and specific disciplines for that sub-class.
Also there should be disaplines that eventually get rid of material components even if they have a cost, verbal components, and somatic components. A Psion should never have a spell component pouch, their minds are all they need. Maybe a psionically charged crystal but that would be it.
I wasn’t going to post this as I’m 100% sure the math is off. I basically tried to simplify spell point variant, and allow more flexibility with how you how you cast while still making it different enough that you don’t feel like just another caster.
LEVEL 1: PSIONIC POWER You harbor a wellspring of psionic energy within yourself. This energy is represented by your Psionic Energy Dice. Your Psion level determines the die size and number of Psionic Energy Dice you have, as shown in the Energy Die and Number of Dice columns of the Psion Features table. Your Psionic Energy Dice are used to enhance or fuel certain Psion features. You start with two such features: Telekinetic Propel and Telepathic Connection, each of which is detailed below. Some of your powers expend the Psionic Energy Dice, as specified in a power’s description, and you can’t use a power if it requires you to use a die when all your Psionic Energy Dice are expended. You regain a number equal to half your Proficiency Bonus rounded up of expended Psionic Energy Die when you finish a Short Rest, and you regain all of them when you finish a Long Rest. Some features that use Psionic Energy Dice require your target to make a saving throw. The save DC equals the spell save DC from this class’s Psychic Spellcasting feature.
Telekinetic Propel. As a Bonus Action, choose one Large or smaller creature other than you that you can see within 30 feet of yourself, and then roll one Psionic Energy Die. The target must succeed on a Strength saving throw or be pushed or pulled (your
yourself equal to 5 times the number rolled. The die is expended only if the target fails the saving throw.
Telepathic Connection. You have telepathy with a range of 10 feet. As a Bonus Action, you can expend one Psionic Energy Die and roll it. For a number of minutes equal to your Psion level, the range of your telepathy increases by a number of feet equal to 10 times the number rolled.
LEVEL 1: PSYCHIC SPELLCASTING You have learned how to channel magical energy using the power of your mind. The information below details how you use those rules with Psion spells, which appear in the Psion spell list later in the class’s description.
Psi Points. You use Psi Points to fuel your Psion spells. You have a number of Psi Points listed in the Psi Point column of the Psion Feature table. You regain all Psi Points when you complete a long rest. Psi Points can only be used to cast your Psion spells, but you may also cast your Psion spells using any spell slots you may have. To cast a spell you expend a number of Psi Points equal to the spell’s level. This does mean it is impossible to cast a spell at a higher level. This weakness is addressed with the Muster Power feature gained at 5th level. You may only cast one spell per turn that expends Psi Points.
Cantrips. You know two Psion cantrips of your choice. Minor Illusion and Telekinetic Fling are recommended. Whenever you gain a Psion level, you can replace one of your cantrips from this feature with another Psion cantrip of your choice. When you reach Psion levels 10 and 14, you learn another Psion cantrip of your choice, as shown in the Cantrips column of the Psion Features table.
Prepared Spells of Level 1+. You prepare the list of level 1+ spells that are available for you to cast with this feature. To start, choose four level 1 Psion spells. Charm Person, Command, Dissonant Whispers, and Mage Armor are recommended. The number of spells on your list increases as you gain Psion levels, as shown in the Prepared Spells column of the Psion Features table. Whenever that number increases, choose additional Psion spells until the number of spells on your list matches the number in the table. The chosen spells must be of a level of your Psychic Spell Max Level or lower. For example, if you’re a level 3 Psion, your list of prepared spells can include six Psion spells of levels 1 and 2 in any combination. If another Psion feature gives you spells that you always have prepared, those don’t count against the number of spells you can prepare with this feature, but those spells otherwise count as Psion spells for you.
Changing Your Prepared Spells. Whenever you gain a Psion level, you can replace one spell on your list with another Psion spell of an eligible level.
Spellcasting Ability. Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for your Psion spells.
Psionic Spellcasting. When you cast a Psion spell, that spell doesn’t require a Somatic, Verbal or Material component, even if the spell includes “S”, “V”, or “M” in its “Components” entry, except Material components that are consumed by the spell or have a cost specified in the spell.
LEVEL 1: SIMPLE TELEKINESIS You know the Mage Hand cantrip. You can make the spectral hand Invisible when you cast it. You can replace one of your attacks to make an Unarmed Strike with the spectral hand against a target within 5ft of the hand. It uses your Int modifier for DC, Attack and Damage rolls and deals Force damage. Additionally your spectral hand can carry up to 15lbs. The weight it can carry increases when you reach specific levels in this class, 5th (20lbs), 11th(25lbs), and 17th (30lbs)
LEVEL 2: PSIONIC DISCIPLINE You learn further psionic techniques that are fueled by your Psionic Energy Dice. You gain three disciplines of your choice, such as Expanded Awareness and Id Insinuation. Disciplines are described in the “Psionic Discipline Options” section later in this class’s description. You can use only one Discipline each turn and only once per turn unless otherwise noted in one of those options. Whenever you gain a Psion level, you can replace one of your Psionic Discipline options with one you don’t know. You gain three more options at Psion level 10 and three more at Psion level 17.
LEVEL 2: PSIONIC MODES You have honed your psionic powers to act as both a shield and a weapon in battle. As a Bonus Action, you can choose one of the following modes, granting you certain benefits for 1 minute or until you use this feature again:
Attack Mode. Damage from your weapon attacks, Psion spells, and Psion features ignores Resistance to Psychic damage. In addition, when you roll damage for a spell, you can expend one Psionic Energy Die to reroll a number of damage dice up to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of one), and you must use the new rolls.
Defense Mode. You have Resistance to Psychic damage. In addition, when you fail an Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma saving throw, you can take a Reaction to expend one Psionic Energy Die; roll the Psionic Energy Die and add the number rolled to the saving throw, potentially turning a failure into a success.
You can use this feature once, and you regain its use when you finish a Short or Long rest.
Sense Mode. You can see everything within your telepathy range even if something would block line of sight, obscure vision, or cause blindness and you can see Invisible creatures and objects within this range. In addition when a creature successfully saves against one of your Psion spells or features, you can take a Reaction to expend one Psionic Energy Die, roll it and regain a number of Psi Points equal to roll up to the spell’s level.
???? Mode. When you attempt to enter this Mode roll a d4. The mode you enter depends on the number you roll. 1. Attack Mode 2. Defense Mode 3. Sense Mode 4. Perfect Mode. If you roll a 4 and enter Perfect Mode you have all the benefits of the other 3 modes. In addition while in Perfect mode you gain a special D4 Psionic Energy Die at the start of each of your turns. When your Mode ends you lose any D4 Psionic Energy Dice that weren’t expended.
LEVEL 3: PSION SUBCLASS You gain a Psion subclass of your choice. The Metamorph, Psi Warper, Psykinetic, and Telepath subclasses are detailed after this class’s description. A subclass is a specialization that grants you features at certain Psion levels. For the rest of your career, you gain each of your subclass’s features that are of your Psion level or lower.
LEVEL 5: MUSTER POWER- When you cast a spell using Psi Points you may expend a number of Energy Dice up to your Proficiency Bonus. You treat the spell as if it were cast with a spell slot of a number of levels higher than the spell equal to the number of Energy Die you expended. This allows you to effectively cast a spell at a higher level than your Psychic Spell Max Level and even 9th Level. Example: A 5th Level Psion cast Animate Dead and expends 3 Energy Dice to Muster Power, they effectively cast Animate Dead with a 6th level spell slot allowing them to animate or reassert control of up to 7 undead creatures.
LEVEL 7: PSIONIC SURGE As a bonus action, you can expend one of your Hit Point Dice and regain your expended use of Psionic Modes. In addition, after you roll one or more Psionic Energy Dice, you can expend one of your Hit Point Dice and treat any roll of 1, 2, or 3 on those Psionic Energy Dice as a 4.
LEVEL 9: WILD TALENT FEAT You gain a Wild Talent Feat of your choice even if you have already taken one. This Feat counts as a general feat for you.
LEVEL 11: AWAKENED POWER 6TH LEVEL SPELLS You prepare two 6th level spells from the psion spell list. You can cast one of them once without expending Psi Points. You may also expend 15 Psi Points to cast either spell. You regain the ability to cast a spell without expending Psi Points when you complete a long rest. You may change one Awakened Power spell of a level you can cast for one of the same level when you complete a long rest.
LEVEL 13: AP 7TH LEVEL SPELLS You prepare two 7th level spells from the psion spell list. You can cast one of them once without expending Psi Points. You may also expend 20 Psi Points to cast either spell. You regain the ability to cast a spell without expending Psi Points when you complete a long rest. You may change one Awakened Power spell of a level you can cast for one of the same level when you complete a long rest.
LEVEL 15: AP 8TH LEVEL SPELLS You prepare two 8th level spells from the psion spell list. You can cast one of them once without expending Psi Points. You may also expend 35 Psi Points to cast either spell. You regain the ability to cast a spell without expending Psi Points when you complete a long rest. You may change one Awakened Power spell of a level you can cast for one of the same level when you complete a long rest.
LEVEL 17: AP 9TH LEVEL SPELLS You prepare two 9th level spells from the psion spell list. You can cast one of them once without expending Psi Points. You may also expend 45 Psi Points to cast either spell. You regain the ability to cast a spell without expending Psi Points when you complete a long rest. You may change one Awakened Power spell of a level you can cast for one of the same level when you complete a long rest.
LEVEL 18: ENKINDLED LIFEFORCE Once per turn, when you expend one Psionic Energy Die and roll it for a Psion feature or Psionic Discipline, you can expend two of your Hit Point Dice to roll two additional Psionic Energy Dice and add the numbers rolled to the total.
LEVEL 19: EPIC BOON You gain an Epic Boon feat or another feat of your choice for which you qualify. Boon of Energy Resistance is recommended.
LEVEL 20: PSIONIC PEAK You have reached the pinnacle of understanding of you Psionic powers. You gain the following:
Psionic Restoration If you roll initiative and have less than Energy Dice you have 4 Energy Dice.
Near Perfect If you decide to roll ???? Mode you may use a D6 instead of a D4, you go into Perfect Mode on a 4-6.
Mode Flow If you are in Attack Mode, Defense Mode, or Sense Mode you may use a bonus action to switch to another one of those Modes. This does not reset the 1 minute duration of the Psionic Mode.
Additional Psionic Disciplines
Brain Freeze When a creature enters your telepathy range for the first time on their turn, you can take a Reaction to roll one Psionic Energy Die and force the creature to make an Intelligence saving throw. On a failed save, the target’s Speed is reduced to 0 feet and it subtracts the number rolled from the next roll to heal it before the end of its next turn. The die is expended only if the creature fails the saving throw.
Mind Fog When you deal Psychic damage to a creature you can expend an Energy Die and roll it. The creature gains the poison condition until the end of its next turn and subtracts the roll from its next ability check before the end of its next turn. A creature can use an action to roll an Intelligence save against your spellcasting DC to remove the poisoned condition.
Telekinetic Assault When you hit with an unarmed strike using your Invisible Spectral Hand from Simple Telekinesis you can expend one Energy Die and roll it. The target takes force damage equal to the roll.
Unnerving Reaction When you roll initiative with Disadvantage you can expend an Energy Die, roll it and add it to the result of your initiative roll.
Vector Control When you are hit by a ranged attack roll you may take a Reaction to expend an Energy Die and roll it. You subtract the roll from the attack roll, possibly turning a hit into a miss.
Psion Subclasses
Oddly not much has to be done to make them work with this no spell slot base class. Obviously any feature that says you can cast without expending a spell slot would be changed to Psi Points.
Metamorph has no changes.
Psi Warperhas the spell slot to Psi point wording change for its level 3 teleportation feature. Also increase level 10 features to 60ft.
Psykinetic needs an additional level 3 feature.
LEVEL 3: COMBAT TELEKINESIS You can cast Mage Hand as a bonus action. If it is ever more than 30 ft away from you it doesn’t vanish, instead it teleports within 5 feet of you. When you make an Unarmed Strike with your invisible spectral hand from Simple Telekinesis you can use 1d10 instead of the normal damage of your Unarmed Strike. This damage increases to 2d10 at 5th, 3d10 at 11th, and 4d10 at 17th.
Telepath 3rd level Telepathic Hub range is 30 feet. 10th level Telepathic Bolstering is 60 feet and add this sentence. Additionally when you use Telepathic Connection to extend the range of your telepathy its range increases by 20 times the number rolled on the die.
For me it comes down to this... Psion vs Psion. If they can't capture the concept of a psychic battle and do it well, there's not enough to differentiate a Psion from a spellcaster. Expecially when you specifically make them a spellcaster.
Scenario: The party is facing down Mind Flayers in their lair. While the physical battle rages, the Psion is engaging Illithids on the Astral Plane, mind vs minds. The Illithids attempt to forcibly smash their way through the Psion's mind shield, but the Psion forms an impregnable tower of willpower around herself. She probes their psychic defenses with sensitive tendrils of thought. Finding a weakness in one of the Mind Flayers' shields she punctures it with a lance of psionic energy and steals a memory of a fearsome foe. Summoning an astral construct with reserves of psionic energy from her ego, she shapes it into the likeness of a Death Tyrant and launches it at the Illithids' astral forms. Using their own emotions against them, the telepathic beast shreds their minds and drains their intellect with irresistible beams of fear and despair. Back in the material world, the Mind Flayers collapse to the ground like marionettes with their strings cut, nothing left but soulless husks.
In this scenario not a single spell is cast. No elaborate gestures or gutteral utterances. The only limits on her abilities are the psionic skills at her command and the psychic energy she can control with her iron willpower (Wisdom), her clever creativity and sharp intellect (Intelligence), her forceful ego and deceptive charm (Charisma), and even her very lifeforce (Constitution).
She's not limited to psychic battle, though. She has incredible control over her own body to counteract poisons and heal damage and with a touch she can exert control over the body of another nearly as easily. She can raise shields of telekinetic force to deflect a barrage of arrows, even grabbing them with her mind and launching them at the enemy leader. At the last, when she is surrounded by an army of foes she laughs and teleports herself well out of range of the strongest bowman.
That's the Psion I want to see. At least a high level one.
For me it comes down to this... Psion vs Psion. If they can't capture the concept of a psychic battle and do it well, there's not enough to differentiate a Psion from a spellcaster. Expecially when you specifically make them a spellcaster.
Scenario: The party is facing down Mind Flayers in their lair. While the physical battle rages, the Psion is engaging Illithids on the Astral Plane, mind vs minds. The Illithids attempt to forcibly smash their way through the Psion's mind shield, but the Psion forms an impregnable tower of willpower around herself. She probes their psychic defenses with sensitive tendrils of thought. Finding a weakness in one of the Mind Flayers' shields she punctures it with a lance of psionic energy and steals a memory of a fearsome foe. Summoning an astral construct with reserves of psionic energy from her ego, she shapes it into the likeness of a Death Tyrant and launches it at the Illithids' astral forms. Using their own emotions against them, the telepathic beast shreds their minds and drains their intellect with irresistible beams of fear and despair. Back in the material world, the Mind Flayers collapse to the ground like marionettes with their strings cut, nothing left but soulless husks.
In this scenario not a single spell is cast. No elaborate gestures or gutteral utterances. The only limits on her abilities are the psionic skills at her command and the psychic energy she can control with her iron willpower (Wisdom), her clever creativity and sharp intellect (Intelligence), her forceful ego and deceptive charm (Charisma), and even her very lifeforce (Constitution).
She's not limited to psychic battle, though. She has incredible control over her own body to counteract poisons and heal damage and with a touch she can exert control over the body of another nearly as easily. She can raise shields of telekinetic force to deflect a barrage of arrows, even grabbing them with her mind and launching them at the enemy leader. At the last, when she is surrounded by an army of foes she laughs and teleports herself well out of range of the strongest bowman.
That's the Psion I want to see. At least a high level one.
Illithids are a rare example of high intelligence monsters. What I could easily envision happening is psion walks up to a stupid tarrasque, mind controls it, win. Admittedly legendary resistances help, but monsters are supposed to succeed on many of their saving throws without relying on a limited number of legendary resistances.
Also, your scenario would be very difficult to represent mechanically.
For me it comes down to this... Psion vs Psion. If they can't capture the concept of a psychic battle and do it well, there's not enough to differentiate a Psion from a spellcaster. Expecially when you specifically make them a spellcaster.
Scenario: The party is facing down Mind Flayers in their lair. While the physical battle rages, the Psion is engaging Illithids on the Astral Plane, mind vs minds. The Illithids attempt to forcibly smash their way through the Psion's mind shield, but the Psion forms an impregnable tower of willpower around herself. She probes their psychic defenses with sensitive tendrils of thought. Finding a weakness in one of the Mind Flayers' shields she punctures it with a lance of psionic energy and steals a memory of a fearsome foe. Summoning an astral construct with reserves of psionic energy from her ego, she shapes it into the likeness of a Death Tyrant and launches it at the Illithids' astral forms. Using their own emotions against them, the telepathic beast shreds their minds and drains their intellect with irresistible beams of fear and despair. Back in the material world, the Mind Flayers collapse to the ground like marionettes with their strings cut, nothing left but soulless husks.
In this scenario not a single spell is cast. No elaborate gestures or gutteral utterances. The only limits on her abilities are the psionic skills at her command and the psychic energy she can control with her iron willpower (Wisdom), her clever creativity and sharp intellect (Intelligence), her forceful ego and deceptive charm (Charisma), and even her very lifeforce (Constitution).
She's not limited to psychic battle, though. She has incredible control over her own body to counteract poisons and heal damage and with a touch she can exert control over the body of another nearly as easily. She can raise shields of telekinetic force to deflect a barrage of arrows, even grabbing them with her mind and launching them at the enemy leader. At the last, when she is surrounded by an army of foes she laughs and teleports herself well out of range of the strongest bowman.
That's the Psion I want to see. At least a high level one.
Illithids are a rare example of high intelligence monsters. What I could easily envision happening is psion walks up to a stupid tarrasque, mind controls it, win. Admittedly legendary resistances help, but monsters are supposed to succeed on many of their saving throws without relying on a limited number of legendary resistances.
Also, your scenario would be very difficult to represent mechanically.
It would be fairly simple to limit a *non-spell* ability to be less or non effective vs unintelligent creatures. Or to allow psychic defenses that *don't* depend on high intelligence or psionic ability. Just having a high amount of hit points is a defense against psychic damage. And in my scenario I mentioned multiple base abilities that not only help the Psion but could also help a non-psionic creature defend themselves to some degree against certain disciplines. Both Strength and Dexterity could defend against telekinetic attacks as well. And by definition, almost everything a Psion does is a Concentration ability. The Psion might be able to concentrate on more than one thing at a time, but it would be progressively more difficult and draining to do so.
But that only works if you treat Psionics as having its own unique set of rules that duplicate the *effects* of certain spells, but aren't spells or even rely on magic. Which is the point.
If you make the Psion just another spellcaster, then you are absolutely correct; My scenario is completely unbalanced against a wide range of monsters and mechanically difficult to manage. Which is just another argument that they shouldn't be spellcasters.
PS. In the example you gave a mid-level Wizard could *attempt* to the same thing as the Psion and control the monster. More easily in fact, if said monster could use its high constitution and hit dice to resist a Psion's attack.
Whatever. I'm not willing to concede that psionics is just a different kind of magical spell and works exactly the same. The game designers actually concede that they *are* different because they have to modify psionic spells to remove the spell components and then pile a mishmash of re-tooled, old-school concepts on top of that and pretend that it's somehow better than D&D's other failed attempts to incorporate psionic abilities into the game. It's better for *them* certainly. Repackage a bunch of spells into a new spell list and throw on a variation of the older version of the psionics rules and job done. They don't have to think too hard about how to balance the class and they can pat themselves on the back that they paid homage to the old-school psionics user. Except they didn't because it was available to every class.
Psionis are just a different magic. The problem I see with this UA is that it ends up feeling like the same magic that we have had since the beginning of 5e. After doing multiple mock ups of how a Psion could play as half caster and with psi points instead of spell slots I believe half caster is the best. Honestly the only thing that can make Psionics different than the magic we are accustomed to is to use a different mechanic to achieve near equivalent power. None of my mock ups achieved that because I want focused on balancing them, just showing the types of mechanics I believed would work to achieve the goal.
Psionis are just a different magic. The problem I see with this UA is that it ends up feeling like the same magic that we have had since the beginning of 5e. After doing multiple mock ups of how a Psion could play as half caster and with psi points instead of spell slots I believe half caster is the best. Honestly the only thing that can make Psionics different than the magic we are accustomed to is to use a different mechanic to achieve near equivalent power. None of my mock ups achieved that because I want focused on balancing them, just showing the types of mechanics I believed would work to achieve the goal.
If you ever have the chance to find the 2nd edition Complete Psionics Handbook, have a look. It is not similar to a spell caster.
I’ll say again the mechanics are the only thing that are different. Moving stuff with your mind, casting a spell, using the force, or blasting something with a ki blast is all just magic. With magic being supernatural or preternatural phenomena. The mechanics of how you achieve that is what is important. In 5e 90% of what would make someone psionic is covered by spells. This was not true in 2nd edition. The problem is that in 5e a Psion class covers the same roles as Wizard and sorcerer. So if you just make it full caster what design purpose does it serve. Also just so you know the 2e psionic system is mechanically just an over complicated spell system that uses points and calls the “spells” powers. You could also reverse it and say that the 5e spell casting system is a simplified psionic system that uses spell slots and calls the “powers” spells. Niether of the systems directly effect the fantasy you want to achieve. The only real argument against the UA Psion is that it is a new class that doesn’t offer anything new to the game. It’s more reliant on spellcasting than Psionic Energy Dice which is supposed to differentiate it from Wizards and Sorcerers. If there is going to be a new class I would want something that feels mechanically different, but I would never suggest going back to the overly complicated power system of 2e.
For me it comes down to this... Psion vs Psion. If they can't capture the concept of a psychic battle and do it well, there's not enough to differentiate a Psion from a spellcaster. Expecially when you specifically make them a spellcaster.
Scenario: The party is facing down Mind Flayers in their lair. While the physical battle rages, the Psion is engaging Illithids on the Astral Plane, mind vs minds. The Illithids attempt to forcibly smash their way through the Psion's mind shield, but the Psion forms an impregnable tower of willpower around herself. She probes their psychic defenses with sensitive tendrils of thought. Finding a weakness in one of the Mind Flayers' shields she punctures it with a lance of psionic energy and steals a memory of a fearsome foe. Summoning an astral construct with reserves of psionic energy from her ego, she shapes it into the likeness of a Death Tyrant and launches it at the Illithids' astral forms. Using their own emotions against them, the telepathic beast shreds their minds and drains their intellect with irresistible beams of fear and despair. Back in the material world, the Mind Flayers collapse to the ground like marionettes with their strings cut, nothing left but soulless husks.
In this scenario not a single spell is cast. No elaborate gestures or gutteral utterances. The only limits on her abilities are the psionic skills at her command and the psychic energy she can control with her iron willpower (Wisdom), her clever creativity and sharp intellect (Intelligence), her forceful ego and deceptive charm (Charisma), and even her very lifeforce (Constitution).
She's not limited to psychic battle, though. She has incredible control over her own body to counteract poisons and heal damage and with a touch she can exert control over the body of another nearly as easily. She can raise shields of telekinetic force to deflect a barrage of arrows, even grabbing them with her mind and launching them at the enemy leader. At the last, when she is surrounded by an army of foes she laughs and teleports herself well out of range of the strongest bowman.
That's the Psion I want to see. At least a high level one.
Illithids are a rare example of high intelligence monsters. What I could easily envision happening is psion walks up to a stupid tarrasque, mind controls it, win. Admittedly legendary resistances help, but monsters are supposed to succeed on many of their saving throws without relying on a limited number of legendary resistances.
Also, your scenario would be very difficult to represent mechanically.
It would be fairly simple to limit a *non-spell* ability to be less or non effective vs unintelligent creatures. Or to allow psychic defenses that *don't* depend on high intelligence or psionic ability. Just having a high amount of hit points is a defense against psychic damage. And in my scenario I mentioned multiple base abilities that not only help the Psion but could also help a non-psionic creature defend themselves to some degree against certain disciplines. Both Strength and Dexterity could defend against telekinetic attacks as well. And by definition, almost everything a Psion does is a Concentration ability. The Psion might be able to concentrate on more than one thing at a time, but it would be progressively more difficult and draining to do so.
But that only works if you treat Psionics as having its own unique set of rules that duplicate the *effects* of certain spells, but aren't spells or even rely on magic. Which is the point.
If you make the Psion just another spellcaster, then you are absolutely correct; My scenario is completely unbalanced against a wide range of monsters and mechanically difficult to manage. Which is just another argument that they shouldn't be spellcasters.
PS. In the example you gave a mid-level Wizard could *attempt* to the same thing as the Psion and control the monster. More easily in fact, if said monster could use its high constitution and hit dice to resist a Psion's attack.
Dominate monster is an eighth level spell, so it can only be cast 3 times in a fight, half the amount of LRs a tarrasque has, whereas you want a psion to be able to, "...exert control over the body of another nearly as easily [as their own]." Am I wrong to assume that can be done a few more times than 6?
I’ll say again the mechanics are the only thing that are different. Moving stuff with your mind, casting a spell, using the force, or blasting something with a ki blast is all just magic. With magic being supernatural or preternatural phenomena. The mechanics of how you achieve that is what is important. In 5e 90% of what would make someone psionic is covered by spells. This was not true in 2nd edition. The problem is that in 5e a Psion class covers the same roles as Wizard and sorcerer. So if you just make it full caster what design purpose does it serve. Also just so you know the 2e psionic system is mechanically just an over complicated spell system that uses points and calls the “spells” powers. You could also reverse it and say that the 5e spell casting system is a simplified psionic system that uses spell slots and calls the “powers” spells. Niether of the systems directly effect the fantasy you want to achieve. The only real argument against the UA Psion is that it is a new class that doesn’t offer anything new to the game. It’s more reliant on spellcasting than Psionic Energy Dice which is supposed to differentiate it from Wizards and Sorcerers. If there is going to be a new class I would want something that feels mechanically different, but I would never suggest going back to the overly complicated power system of 2e.
It was not that complicated. It was a lot more streamlined than mixing psi dice with spell casting levels. This Psion is a clunky hybrid that doesn't differentiate itself from a regular spell caster. Where 2nd editions was its own thing.
I’ll say again the mechanics are the only thing that are different. Moving stuff with your mind, casting a spell, using the force, or blasting something with a ki blast is all just magic. With magic being supernatural or preternatural phenomena. The mechanics of how you achieve that is what is important. In 5e 90% of what would make someone psionic is covered by spells. This was not true in 2nd edition. The problem is that in 5e a Psion class covers the same roles as Wizard and sorcerer. So if you just make it full caster what design purpose does it serve. Also just so you know the 2e psionic system is mechanically just an over complicated spell system that uses points and calls the “spells” powers. You could also reverse it and say that the 5e spell casting system is a simplified psionic system that uses spell slots and calls the “powers” spells. Niether of the systems directly effect the fantasy you want to achieve. The only real argument against the UA Psion is that it is a new class that doesn’t offer anything new to the game. It’s more reliant on spellcasting than Psionic Energy Dice which is supposed to differentiate it from Wizards and Sorcerers. If there is going to be a new class I would want something that feels mechanically different, but I would never suggest going back to the overly complicated power system of 2e.
It was not that complicated. It was a lot more streamlined than mixing psi dice with spell casting levels. This Psion is a clunky hybrid that doesn't differentiate itself from a regular spell caster. Where 2nd editions was its own thing.
How can you say it was more streamlined when you had sciences and disciplines to gain and you had to keep track of points? All the disciplines and sciences have to be written out, which is illy when there are already spells that cover 90% of them. I’ve never played 2e. I started in 3e, but I’m sorry I looked it up and it is not more streamlined for 5e than the UA Psion. I don’t like the UA Psion, but the last thing I want is them to try to patchwork 2e design into 5e. That wouldn’t work.
Never said they should copy paste. But you seem to like the spellcasting aspect of this version more than I do. I would never play it or have it played at my table as a DM. It's not a Psionic it's a mage with extra feats.
Never said they should copy paste. But you seem to like the spellcasting aspect of this version more than I do. I would never play it or have it played at my table as a DM. It's not a Psionic it's a mage with extra feats.
100%. There are a few aspects that could have made this class feel like a psionicist but IMO they totally missed the mark by making them spellcasters in the usual D&D sense. I love playing a Wizard but in many ways they are the "glass cannons" and spell slots end up being a limiting factor only mitigated by the introduction of the damage-scaling combat cantrips available in the modern editions. They have a distinct feel to play and that's not how I would want a psionicist to play. To be worthwhile it needs to be different, and it's not. Bolting on energy dice is just an over-complication, not a feature. The game already has plenty of spellcaster variants and I'm certain they will continue to proliferate.
For a "Psion" to feel like a psionics user, it would need to lean into the concept of "Mind Over (Fill in the blank). Mind over Body, Mind over Matter, Mind over Mind, etc. WotC is treating it like a mechanical effect ("Cast Detect Thoughts") instead of an inborn talent honed by skill and practice. Cast this spell, get X result. I'd like something more nuanced than that. Reading someone's mind should feel more like [ Psionic Ability + Psionic Skill ] vs [ Target's resistance + Difficulty ], roll vs DC [ X ] to succeed. They shouldn't be limited to doing it a few times a day like a Wizard would. Yes, there should be some limiting factor but spell slots don't feel the right way to do it.
I don't blame them for not wanting to invent a whole new "magic" system and reinventing mechanical effects (spells) that already exist in the game. Honestly, I get it. But if that's all the effort they want to put into it, they should've just modeled the mechanics off of either the Sorcerer or the Warlock class and kept it simple and not pretend to have done something different.
Never said they should copy paste. But you seem to like the spellcasting aspect of this version more than I do. I would never play it or have it played at my table as a DM. It's not a Psionic it's a mage with extra feats.
100%. There are a few aspects that could have made this class feel like a psionicist but IMO they totally missed the mark by making them spellcasters in the usual D&D sense. I love playing a Wizard but in many ways they are the "glass cannons" and spell slots end up being a limiting factor only mitigated by the introduction of the damage-scaling combat cantrips available in the modern editions. They have a distinct feel to play and that's not how I would want a psionicist to play. To be worthwhile it needs to be different, and it's not. Bolting on energy dice is just an over-complication, not a feature. The game already has plenty of spellcaster variants and I'm certain they will continue to proliferate.
For a "Psion" to feel like a psionics user, it would need to lean into the concept of "Mind Over (Fill in the blank). Mind over Body, Mind over Matter, Mind over Mind, etc. WotC is treating it like a mechanical effect ("Cast Detect Thoughts") instead of an inborn talent honed by skill and practice. Cast this spell, get X result. I'd like something more nuanced than that. Reading someone's mind should feel more like [ Psionic Ability + Psionic Skill ] vs [ Target's resistance + Difficulty ], roll vs DC [ X ] to succeed. They shouldn't be limited to doing it a few times a day like a Wizard would. Yes, there should be some limiting factor but spell slots don't feel the right way to do it.
I don't blame them for not wanting to invent a whole new "magic" system and reinventing mechanical effects (spells) that already exist in the game. Honestly, I get it. But if that's all the effort they want to put into it, they should've just modeled the mechanics off of either the Sorcerer or the Warlock class and kept it simple and not pretend to have done something different.
Yeah, the Psion as given does feel like something you could reproduce with a Sorcerer; the energy dice just adds complexity without achieving that much.
I can understand why they used spells. I mean, if you decided you wanted a system of 'per day' powers, by the time you had defined the parameters of those powers and how many times they could be used then...well, you would end up with the existing spellcasting system anyway. No point reinventing the wheel.
But I would still like to see a version of the Psion that's only a half-caster, where the role of Psionic Disciplines is massively expanded instead (a bit like Warlock invocations perhaps), with more of a 'tree' of level-gated Disciplines.
Some Psionic Disciplines could add lower level spells slots or give you a higher-level spell + spell slot, allowing access to spell levels a half-caster wouldn't normally reach. That way, if you wanted to lean heavily into spellcasting (and make people's heads explode with Psychic Scream) you could. But other Psionic Disciplines could, as others have said, just give straight up psychic powers (perhaps "boostable" using energy dice) or build on some of psychic-based spells. E.g:
"Psychic Defense: You have resistance to Psychic damage. Whenever you fail an Int, Wis or Cha saving throw you may expend and roll a Psionic Energy Die and add the result, potentially turning the failure into a success"
"Enhanced Mind Sliver: Whenever you cast Mind Sliver you may add your Int modifier to the damage roll. In addition, whenever you cause damage with Mind Sliver you may expend and roll a Psionic Damage Die. The target subtracts that number from their next Saving Throw instead of the normal d4".
i have a different point if view than you on the overall should this be a class or not, but thats not part of my critique of your caster version.
and i did read it, and then i compared to the UA psion in terms of resources. Its possible i missed something, but from what i can see;
it has the same amount of energy dice at the same levels., it can spend a BA to get a special weaker dice, it cant use this for all features because some features need multiple dice/dont roll dice
it can spend a BA to turn a ED into a spell slot. this means there is a lot of BA use and time between using features/spells.
You are focused on the class part, and not considering how ED interacts with the subclasses, and design elements. (in terms of how much you think ED use factors into the class)
in playtests, i spend more ED than spell slots per fight, and the ED is tied more to the psionic stuff. But i'll come back to there.
first lets look at the resources, lets take level 10
UA psion psiwarper has 8 dice that are d8s. it has 4:3:3:3:2 spells
Ain psion psiwarper has 8 dice that are d8s it has 4:3:2 spells. and one psychic dice.
in order to equal the amount of spells the UA psion has, it has to spend 6 dice that day.
so, the psion gets 8 dice, it recovers half its dice with ashort rest once a day, and 1 per SR. so it has a total of 8+5 ED per day, or 12. so 6/12 dice
now, you added the reserve die, but it only works when you have zero dice, and it doesnt work for features that expend the dice without rolling it, that means it doesnt work for any feature that uses more than 1 die.
Id insinuation, Psionic guards, Swift precognition, psionic backlash, Quickened healling, extend limbs/mutable form, Teleportation/teleportation combat, warp space, Duplicitous target, , Mass teleportaion, rebounding field, enhanced telekinetic crush, heightened telekinesis, mind infiltrator, scramble minds, Thats the list of features which wont work if you are using emergency dice. I believe thats more features than ones that will work with it. If you add a rule that you can roll reserve dice multiple times(but only expend one), you get back psionic backlash and rebounding field. And i think this also illustrates how much of this class interacts with ED, and how much psionic gameplay you are giving up since you are using the ED budget to create a spell management system.
that aspect aside, it means that the reserve dice doesnt give you the same access to your powers that the pure ED does,
So, why i think of it a gamble mechanic (and i dont mean that in a bad way, just in terms of the type of mini game it is) is because you are expending one known benefit, in exchange for a different benefit, with the hope that you gain something of greater value. And also within the context of, how can AIn psion equal or exceed the power of full caster? The 'win' here is rolling a max slot psychic slot, and what you can do is based on the result of that roll. in the case of the level 10 psion, they need to roll 2 times 5 or greater, 3 times 4 and 3 one time. in order to break even with a casters power level. lose condition is something less than that, win conddition, ideally, is to roll 6 Fives. And you did weigh the odds so that you''' probably, given 6 rolls, will roll 3 level 5s, 1-2 times roll 2 or less but thats on average in the actual play it will be fairly random, and adapting to that random would be a big part of playing that class.
now i dont really have a problem with this resource minigame in theory. For a class concept where the players pick it because they want this risk versus reward it might be interesting, but since the price to play the spell slot resource game is ED, it means playing the spell slot game reduces your ability to use all those features up above, and adds a BA penalty to using the ones not on that list. IE a lot use of psionic things.
that aside lets look at what my psiwarper lvl 10 did in one fight and see how that translates
Before the fight, she used lvl 4 summon astral entity for crystaline. (lvl 4 is two attacks, so its a big difference)
round 1 of the fight she uses warp propel as a BA to teleport a commoner from a cultist(1 ED), casts blink, and has the crystaline entity attacks 2x the cultist. as a reaction she uses psionic backlash to avoid an attack and deal damage (1 ED)
round 2 she uses steel wind strike on two targets, uses teleprter combat to do true strike (1 ED) crysatline entity attacks 2x
round 3 she uses psychic lance and teleprter combat( 1 ed)
total use, 4ED 1 level 5 spell. 2 level 4 spells. 1 level 3 spell in 3 rounds time. (plus precast)
Ain psion class, has to spend at least 1 dice to get a level 4 or higher slot, to cast crystaline entity before the fight (1ED) if they roll too low they reroll, or dont cast it. On average is 62% chance to roll 4 or higher. so between 1 and 2 ED, lets call it it 1.5 ED on average.
round 1 she can expend 1 ED to propel and one of her level 3 slots to blink, as reaction psionic backlash 1 ED entity attacks
round 2 she can use a BA to try to get a Steel wind strike, (1 ED) no teleporter combat (because it uses a BA) 50% chance she gets it. 50% chance she has to do something weaker with her action. 37% chance she doesnt have anything better than a t3 slot. (which she doesnt even have an offensive tvl 3 slot actually, only 1 spell on the list is offensive)
round 3 she can expend a ED to try to get a 4 or better slot, 62% chance, 37% chance another dud, no BA to use teleporter combat.
so, looking at this, to get similar gameplay, she spends 5.5 ED. she does less damage on average, and makes less use of teleporter combat, a main feature of the subclass. She is less of a psiwarper. However, she might have rolled big and had a stronger crystal entity (level 5), and rolled 2 steel wind strikes. (or a lvl 5 psychic lance)
so ideally your structure in this fight is worse on average, but has a higher peak use of Spells, its less psionic though as it uses its telport and cantrip for one ED less often. and has less psionic dice for future fights. it spends two BAs that could have been active psionics manipulating dice to break even.
now, i will say, this doesnt look at reserve dice use, which probably wont come into play until later encounters, and the payoff is better in later fights as a normal charachter might have run out of high level slots.
but reserve dice dont work with teleporter combat or extra misty step uses, warp propel also caps at 20 feet movment with reserve dice, and i cant use enhanced shatter. So at that point its mostly about rolling dice with bonus actions and hoping for something good from the spellcastingnlist.
and thats why i said what in my other post, the focus of the class becomes the dice minigame, and using full caster spells, not psionics, and the cost in terms of BAs and ED lowers your actual power level.
To me this concept would make more sense on a class that gambling or dice manipulation plays into the fantasy, or if on this class, it needs a big rework of features so that the BAs and use of resources are not in direct opposition to each other.
if the class had a seperate energy source for gambling that could work
or if the class (and subclasses) are redesigned to clash less with the spell slot minigame, it could work
but as presented, this doesnt make it more distinctly psionic than a wizard/sorcerer, it makes it more unique in that it gambles ED and action economy for spells and has to adapt to what the dice gods say (literally changing battle strategies based on what you roll) But it doesnt play nice with psionic
to me it seems the psionic stuff is an afterthought to you in the classes design, the core of the class, as i think you say(maybe i misunderstand you). is the resource management.
like if we look at the ain psion fight narratively, it tells a story of a charachter during the fight trying to dig deep to try to get enough power. to do something, and being surprised or dismayed and adapting to the results.
the UA psion tells the story of a charachter who warps all over the place, hitting enemies with surprising attacks and appearing somewhere else.
GWAR1
I get it now. We have very different thoughts on what’s necessary to make a class feel different than another. I read everything you did with your psy warper and thought a conjugation wizard does stuff like that. This UA establishes that psionics is synonymous with magic. That is fine, but it makes it much harder to differentiate the classes. The mechanics I made aren’t there to make the fantasy of being a psion feel more psionic, they are only there to differentiate the play style of psion and a wizard. If you think it’s good enough great. I don’t. Before they lock in something in a book I like to play around with what could be. I think there needs to be a very different mechanic between wizard and psion mainly because they honestly fill the same roles.
I’ll assume your numbers are correct about my version 2 because you took the time to run them. I would take time to week the numbers, but that’s not the point. The only reason I made it was to show there is another way that would actually feel like something new. Originally v2 was to differentiate to be a no spell slot concept, but that felt too messy. Now I thought about how I would do that. I will probably write it up after I get off work, but most likely won’t post it. Psion as a spellcaster either full or half is what most people seem to want on here. Plus if I make the class a without spell slots I have to redo all the subclasses as well. That takes up too much space on the forum for what is honestly just me typing out my thought experiments.
IMO this version of the Psion needs a fireball to the head. It is unbelievably clunky, over-complicated, and worst of all makes them an actual spellcaster instead of someone who uses their mind to unlock powers that transcend mere spells and gives them control over mind, body, and matter. Yes, they are similar to spellcasters in that they tap into supernatural power and perform miraculous feats. But the mechanics of how they do it should be very different!
Look, I am not opposed to the idea that wizards and psions share some effects. They can both use Detect Thoughts, for example, and the end result can pretty much look the same. But the mechanism that makes it happen isn't the same. Psionics are not spells. The design team did a fair job of creating a list of effects that correspond to an existing spell, I will freely admit. But piling the mess of psionic modes, psionic disciplines, psionic dice on top of what would otherwise be a lackluster spellcaster with psionic spells...? Ugh. I would not allow this muddled mashup of bad ideas anywhere near any campaign I'm running. I certainly wouldn't want to play one and have to manage all of those fiddly bits.
IMO, psionics should be treated as something that sits between the skill classes and the magic classes. They should have different mechanics. I actually like the Wild Talents except for the restriction that you can only have one. But make psionics more of a skill-based class with psionic techniques (Detect Thoughts) grouped under psionic disciplines (Telepathy). And by all means there should be a completely new aspect to combat when it comes down to mind-vs-mind psychic battles. This is what the Psion is missing.
PS. Severely dislike the Metamorph subclass. Needs a total makeover and lose the unnecessarily gross powers.
I posted this on reddit, but figured why not add it here since its dif community, feel ree to ask me any questions i may not have covered.
Psion solo playtest, lvl3, lvl6 lvl10, all subclasses.
So, i decided to test the psion. Im doing it solo, Dming and controlling 4 charachters, this is mostly combat, though i did use 1 donjon 5 room random thing.
Each charachter was designed with moderate optimization, focusing on a famous charachters fanatsy concept.
metamorph: Dhalsim (stretching limbs, martial, but with mind and healing powers)
psiwarper: Magik, (ilyana new mutants xmen)
telepath: Psylocke, betsy braddock version
psikineticist Testuo Shima (akira)
the rating out of 5 is how much i felt like i was playing into the fantasy, having fun and being effective. not really a powerlevel
Lvl 3, the combat was pretty doable.it was a high difficulty fight, but the caster baseline is strong, and energy dice in addition.made it very doable, enemies are pretty simple at this point.
the telepath was able to easily shutdown people via sleep, and force failed saves with Id insinuation. though costly, it delivers. Command is a pretty bug deal. Telepathic hub at this point arent huge, i think detect thoughts without concentration for battle tactics and info is pretty solid, but since im playing both sides, and battles have little context i cant say much. Regardless, tele was solid, in execution and theme. 4/5
the psikineticist, did their job well, propeled enemies together than dropped cloud of daggers, probably an optimal use at this level of what it has. Provided the most damage probably. 3.5/5
psiwarper, misty stepped and did shatter, and used true strike, but didnt feel hugely like a teleporter yet. was effective, but didnt feel like a real teleporter yet. 3/5
metamorph, was sort of effective, but not specializing into ranged spells meant it had to wait for enemies to get close, especially since it can deal with all the aggro at once. swift precog was cool, but, they arent a top martial. 2/5
lvl 6, they start to feel more like the the fantasy. The fight wasnt too tough due to starting fairly far away, also high difficulty. By the time we finally got into close combat they had suffered a bit.
the psiwarper got to really feel special with BA cantrip bonus action misty steps, and some decent spells. This was a a Magik themed charachter though so they made good use of true strike with a blade as well. Cantrip scaling is here, so it feels a little better than a regular BA attack. Getting to rooftops, etc. This felt close to the fantasy, and she was never the easy target 5/5
telepath: was able to identify and shutdown the enemies fairly well. She usually seems likely she is doing less, but defense mode save buffs, shutdowns, and info gathering is top notch, she prefers being distant though, but still has to get sort of close to give buffs, so staying in range can be an issue. Very solid 5/5
psikinetic, attack mode is great with aoe/and movement at this level, stayed on model with an aggressive playstyle. this one had decent con, and tough and telekinetic crush reduced movements as they had to get up. 4/5
metamorph, again, having to get close to really do your thing makes your early rounds feel a lil ineffective, luck might be a factor, but it felt like enmies had harder times making saves than dodging attacks. Psionic Backlash is great for a single hit per round, but then the pain comes depending who you are fighting. he basically almost goes down here, due to a couple of attackers having no easier target But cantrip attacks are good in theory. 3/5
lvl 10. everyone is really doing their thing now and have enough features and stats to feel like their fantasy.
metamorph. i sort of rebuilt them here, focusing on dex instead of int. This combined with haste and the level 10 feature gave a strong base AC, and i took defensive duelist. with an option to go for toughness, speed, or evasion. The dex focus made my spells a couple accuracy less effective. So its slightly awkward. A spell like booming blade being a possible cantrip would help.
Also, lack of finesse simple weapons. i homebrewed the organic weapons being usable for true strike. So i would say that it needs some tweaks here. My big beef with INt is less the stat points, but there really arent good feats other than warcaster, which they kinda get, for a martial hybrid. That said, if was more fun being able to adapt defense, i think lvl 10 was solid. 4/5
telepath. Can really do some fun things, mostly from spells, but involving telepathy and scouting, was able to land sleep while being unable to see targets, as well as communicate to other charachters who couldnt see the enemies, with the illusion spell giving sight, they can actually cast some spells from relative saftey, definitely felt like the telpath suppport while not really in the mix 5/5
Psikinetic, otilukes was a big deal for getting past a fire wall, providing cover, then dropping it and destroying stuff. Not unique to psion, but felt pretty on brand, and energy dice really add to every bodies turns. 5/5
psiwarper. greater invis, teleports, escapes, hidden opportunity attacks. definitely on brand. i took psychic summon flavored as magiks demon, swapping places and wasting some turns. 5/5
overall the class feels pretty solid, it has a number of questionable writing and needs to be smoothed out.
i think psikinetic needs some more spells in the middle and early levels that feel TK damage related.
metamorph i have a lot of interest in, but it needs the most work, id make alter self concentration free, id let the the organic weapons work with blade cantrips, and id expand its spell list, more cantrips with other uses, more spells related to self buffs, or weird stuff. like spitting acid or death touches. Organics possibly need to be on more attacks, though many will use cantrips a lot. Should be able to be decent with a dex first build and an int first build without feeling offensively janky one way, and sorta off when you go offensive with int (useful feats)
telepath and psi warper to me fit the theme and playstyle well, with a lot to back it up in spells (thematically)
And again they make a Psion that is not a a psionic. They've made it a caster with a spell list and some extra's on top. It looks like an unholy cross between an Aberrant sorceror and a Wizard.
Sorry no. They should look at how 2nd edition did it and take a lesson from that. Not this.
I totally agree with this idea. As a caster the Psion is generic and meh. As a separate class it could be very interesting. Allow Disciplines to bring in specific spells. Also include Disciplines that modify psychic abilities. At level 14 a Psion should be able to ignore force and psychic damage resistance and treat immunity to those two damage types as resistance. At 18th level a discipline could allow a Psion to Ignore immunity an resistance for force and psychic damage types. Sub-classes could add even more psionic dice and specific disciplines for that sub-class.
Also there should be disaplines that eventually get rid of material components even if they have a cost, verbal components, and somatic components. A Psion should never have a spell component pouch, their minds are all they need. Maybe a psionically charged crystal but that would be it.
I wasn’t going to post this as I’m 100% sure the math is off. I basically tried to simplify spell point variant, and allow more flexibility with how you how you cast while still making it different enough that you don’t feel like just another caster.
Level
Class Features
Energy Die
Number of Dice
Cantrips
Spells Prepared
Psi Points
Phychic Spell Max Lvl
1st
Psionic Power, Psychic Spellcasting, Simple Telekinesis
D6
6
2
4
2
1st
2nd
Psionic Discipline, Psionic Mode
D6
6
2
5
3
1st
3rd
Psion Subclass
D6
6
2
6
8
2nd
4th
ASI
D6
6
3
7
10
2nd
5th
Muster Power
D8
9
3
9
14
3rd
6th
Subclass Feature
D8
9
3
10
16
3rd
7th
Psionic Surge
D8
9
3
11
20
4th
8th
ASI
D8
9
3
12
24
4th
9th
Wild Talent Feat
D8
12
3
14
28
5th
10th
Subclass Feature,Psionic Discipline
D8
12
4
15
30
5th
11th
Awakened Power 6th level Spell
D10
12
4
16
34
5th
12th
ASI
D10
12
4
16
36
5th
13th
AP 7th level Spell
D10
15
4
17
38
5th
14th
Subclass Feature
D10
15
4
17
40
5th
15th
AP 8th level Spell
D10
15
4
18
42
5th
16th
ASI
D10
15
4
18
44
5th
17th
AP 9th level Spell, Psionic Discipline
D12
18
4
19
46
5th
18th
Enkindled Lifeforce
D12
18
4
20
48
5th
19th
Epic Boon
D12
18
4
21
50
5th
20th
Psionic Restoration
D12
18
4
22
52
5th
LEVEL 1: PSIONIC POWER You harbor a wellspring of psionic energy within yourself. This energy is represented by your Psionic Energy Dice. Your Psion level determines the die size and number of Psionic Energy Dice you have, as shown in the Energy Die and Number of Dice columns of the Psion Features table. Your Psionic Energy Dice are used to enhance or fuel certain Psion features. You start with two such features: Telekinetic Propel and Telepathic Connection, each of which is detailed below. Some of your powers expend the Psionic Energy Dice, as specified in a power’s description, and you can’t use a power if it requires you to use a die when all your Psionic Energy Dice are expended. You regain a number equal to half your Proficiency Bonus rounded up of expended Psionic Energy Die when you finish a Short Rest, and you regain all of them when you finish a Long Rest. Some features that use Psionic Energy Dice require your target to make a saving throw. The save DC equals the spell save DC from this class’s Psychic Spellcasting feature.
Telekinetic Propel. As a Bonus Action, choose one Large or smaller creature other than you that you can see within 30 feet of yourself, and then roll one Psionic Energy Die. The target must succeed on a Strength saving throw or be pushed or pulled (your
yourself equal to 5 times the number rolled. The die is expended only if the target fails the saving throw.
Telepathic Connection. You have telepathy with a range of 10 feet. As a Bonus Action, you can expend one Psionic Energy Die and roll it. For a number of minutes equal to your Psion level, the range of your telepathy increases by a number of feet equal to 10 times the number rolled.
LEVEL 1: PSYCHIC SPELLCASTING You have learned how to channel magical energy using the power of your mind. The information below details how you use those rules with Psion spells, which appear in the Psion spell list later in the class’s description.
Psi Points. You use Psi Points to fuel your Psion spells. You have a number of Psi Points listed in the Psi Point column of the Psion Feature table. You regain all Psi Points when you complete a long rest. Psi Points can only be used to cast your Psion spells, but you may also cast your Psion spells using any spell slots you may have. To cast a spell you expend a number of Psi Points equal to the spell’s level. This does mean it is impossible to cast a spell at a higher level. This weakness is addressed with the Muster Power feature gained at 5th level. You may only cast one spell per turn that expends Psi Points.
Cantrips. You know two Psion cantrips of your choice. Minor Illusion and Telekinetic Fling are recommended. Whenever you gain a Psion level, you can replace one of your cantrips from this feature with another Psion cantrip of your choice. When you reach Psion levels 10 and 14, you learn another Psion cantrip of your choice, as shown in the Cantrips column of the Psion Features table.
Prepared Spells of Level 1+. You prepare the list of level 1+ spells that are available for you to cast with this feature. To start, choose four level 1 Psion spells. Charm Person, Command, Dissonant Whispers, and Mage Armor are recommended. The number of spells on your list increases as you gain Psion levels, as shown in the Prepared Spells column of the Psion Features table. Whenever that number increases, choose additional Psion spells until the number of spells on your list matches the number in the table. The chosen spells must be of a level of your Psychic Spell Max Level or lower. For example, if you’re a level 3 Psion, your list of prepared spells can include six Psion spells of levels 1 and 2 in any combination. If another Psion feature gives you spells that you always have prepared, those don’t count against the number of spells you can prepare with this feature, but those spells otherwise count as Psion spells for you.
Changing Your Prepared Spells. Whenever you gain a Psion level, you can replace one spell on your list with another Psion spell of an eligible level.
Spellcasting Ability. Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for your Psion spells.
Psionic Spellcasting. When you cast a Psion spell, that spell doesn’t require a Somatic, Verbal or Material component, even if the spell includes “S”, “V”, or “M” in its “Components” entry, except Material components that are consumed by the spell or have a cost specified in the spell.
LEVEL 1: SIMPLE TELEKINESIS You know the Mage Hand cantrip. You can make the spectral hand Invisible when you cast it. You can replace one of your attacks to make an Unarmed Strike with the spectral hand against a target within 5ft of the hand. It uses your Int modifier for DC, Attack and Damage rolls and deals Force damage. Additionally your spectral hand can carry up to 15lbs. The weight it can carry increases when you reach specific levels in this class, 5th (20lbs), 11th(25lbs), and 17th (30lbs)
LEVEL 2: PSIONIC DISCIPLINE You learn further psionic techniques that are fueled by your Psionic Energy Dice. You gain three disciplines of your choice, such as Expanded Awareness and Id Insinuation. Disciplines are described in the “Psionic Discipline Options” section later in this class’s description. You can use only one Discipline each turn and only once per turn unless otherwise noted in one of those options. Whenever you gain a Psion level, you can replace one of your Psionic Discipline options with one you don’t know. You gain three more options at Psion level 10 and three more at Psion level 17.
LEVEL 2: PSIONIC MODES You have honed your psionic powers to act as both a shield and a weapon in battle. As a Bonus Action, you can choose one of the following modes, granting you certain benefits for 1 minute or until you use this feature again:
Attack Mode. Damage from your weapon attacks, Psion spells, and Psion features ignores Resistance to Psychic damage. In addition, when you roll damage for a spell, you can expend one Psionic Energy Die to reroll a number of damage dice up to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of one), and you must use the new rolls.
Defense Mode. You have Resistance to Psychic damage. In addition, when you fail an Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma saving throw, you can take a Reaction to expend one Psionic Energy Die; roll the Psionic Energy Die and add the number rolled to the saving throw, potentially turning a failure into a success.
You can use this feature once, and you regain its use when you finish a Short or Long rest.
Sense Mode. You can see everything within your telepathy range even if something would block line of sight, obscure vision, or cause blindness and you can see Invisible creatures and objects within this range. In addition when a creature successfully saves against one of your Psion spells or features, you can take a Reaction to expend one Psionic Energy Die, roll it and regain a number of Psi Points equal to roll up to the spell’s level.
???? Mode. When you attempt to enter this Mode roll a d4. The mode you enter depends on the number you roll. 1. Attack Mode 2. Defense Mode 3. Sense Mode 4. Perfect Mode. If you roll a 4 and enter Perfect Mode you have all the benefits of the other 3 modes. In addition while in Perfect mode you gain a special D4 Psionic Energy Die at the start of each of your turns. When your Mode ends you lose any D4 Psionic Energy Dice that weren’t expended.
LEVEL 3: PSION SUBCLASS You gain a Psion subclass of your choice. The Metamorph, Psi Warper, Psykinetic, and Telepath subclasses are detailed after this class’s description. A subclass is a specialization that grants you features at certain Psion levels. For the rest of your career, you gain each of your subclass’s features that are of your Psion level or lower.
LEVEL 5: MUSTER POWER- When you cast a spell using Psi Points you may expend a number of Energy Dice up to your Proficiency Bonus. You treat the spell as if it were cast with a spell slot of a number of levels higher than the spell equal to the number of Energy Die you expended. This allows you to effectively cast a spell at a higher level than your Psychic Spell Max Level and even 9th Level. Example: A 5th Level Psion cast Animate Dead and expends 3 Energy Dice to Muster Power, they effectively cast Animate Dead with a 6th level spell slot allowing them to animate or reassert control of up to 7 undead creatures.
LEVEL 7: PSIONIC SURGE As a bonus action, you can expend one of your Hit Point Dice and regain your expended use of Psionic Modes. In addition, after you roll one or more Psionic Energy Dice, you can expend one of your Hit Point Dice and treat any roll of 1, 2, or 3 on those Psionic Energy Dice as a 4.
LEVEL 9: WILD TALENT FEAT You gain a Wild Talent Feat of your choice even if you have already taken one. This Feat counts as a general feat for you.
LEVEL 11: AWAKENED POWER 6TH LEVEL SPELLS You prepare two 6th level spells from the psion spell list. You can cast one of them once without expending Psi Points. You may also expend 15 Psi Points to cast either spell. You regain the ability to cast a spell without expending Psi Points when you complete a long rest. You may change one Awakened Power spell of a level you can cast for one of the same level when you complete a long rest.
LEVEL 13: AP 7TH LEVEL SPELLS You prepare two 7th level spells from the psion spell list. You can cast one of them once without expending Psi Points. You may also expend 20 Psi Points to cast either spell. You regain the ability to cast a spell without expending Psi Points when you complete a long rest. You may change one Awakened Power spell of a level you can cast for one of the same level when you complete a long rest.
LEVEL 15: AP 8TH LEVEL SPELLS You prepare two 8th level spells from the psion spell list. You can cast one of them once without expending Psi Points. You may also expend 35 Psi Points to cast either spell. You regain the ability to cast a spell without expending Psi Points when you complete a long rest. You may change one Awakened Power spell of a level you can cast for one of the same level when you complete a long rest.
LEVEL 17: AP 9TH LEVEL SPELLS You prepare two 9th level spells from the psion spell list. You can cast one of them once without expending Psi Points. You may also expend 45 Psi Points to cast either spell. You regain the ability to cast a spell without expending Psi Points when you complete a long rest. You may change one Awakened Power spell of a level you can cast for one of the same level when you complete a long rest.
LEVEL 18: ENKINDLED LIFEFORCE Once per turn, when you expend one Psionic Energy Die and roll it for a Psion feature or Psionic Discipline, you can expend two of your Hit Point Dice to roll two additional Psionic Energy Dice and add the numbers rolled to the total.
LEVEL 19: EPIC BOON You gain an Epic Boon feat or another feat of your choice for which you qualify. Boon of Energy Resistance is recommended.
LEVEL 20: PSIONIC PEAK You have reached the pinnacle of understanding of you Psionic powers. You gain the following:
Psionic Restoration If you roll initiative and have less than Energy Dice you have 4 Energy Dice.
Near Perfect If you decide to roll ???? Mode you may use a D6 instead of a D4, you go into Perfect Mode on a 4-6.
Mode Flow If you are in Attack Mode, Defense Mode, or Sense Mode you may use a bonus action to switch to another one of those Modes. This does not reset the 1 minute duration of the Psionic Mode.
Additional Psionic Disciplines
Brain Freeze When a creature enters your telepathy range for the first time on their turn, you can take a Reaction to roll one Psionic Energy Die and force the creature to make an Intelligence saving throw. On a failed save, the target’s Speed is reduced to 0 feet and it subtracts the number rolled from the next roll to heal it before the end of its next turn. The die is expended only if the creature fails the saving throw.
Mind Fog When you deal Psychic damage to a creature you can expend an Energy Die and roll it. The creature gains the poison condition until the end of its next turn and subtracts the roll from its next ability check before the end of its next turn. A creature can use an action to roll an Intelligence save against your spellcasting DC to remove the poisoned condition.
Telekinetic Assault When you hit with an unarmed strike using your Invisible Spectral Hand from Simple Telekinesis you can expend one Energy Die and roll it. The target takes force damage equal to the roll.
Unnerving Reaction When you roll initiative with Disadvantage you can expend an Energy Die, roll it and add it to the result of your initiative roll.
Vector Control When you are hit by a ranged attack roll you may take a Reaction to expend an Energy Die and roll it. You subtract the roll from the attack roll, possibly turning a hit into a miss.
Psion Subclasses
Oddly not much has to be done to make them work with this no spell slot base class. Obviously any feature that says you can cast without expending a spell slot would be changed to Psi Points.
Metamorph has no changes.
Psi Warper has the spell slot to Psi point wording change for its level 3 teleportation feature. Also increase level 10 features to 60ft.
Psykinetic needs an additional level 3 feature.
LEVEL 3: COMBAT TELEKINESIS You can cast Mage Hand as a bonus action. If it is ever more than 30 ft away from you it doesn’t vanish, instead it teleports within 5 feet of you. When you make an Unarmed Strike with your invisible spectral hand from Simple Telekinesis you can use 1d10 instead of the normal damage of your Unarmed Strike. This damage increases to 2d10 at 5th, 3d10 at 11th, and 4d10 at 17th.
Telepath 3rd level Telepathic Hub range is 30 feet. 10th level Telepathic Bolstering is 60 feet and add this sentence. Additionally when you use Telepathic Connection to extend the range of your telepathy its range increases by 20 times the number rolled on the die.
For me it comes down to this... Psion vs Psion. If they can't capture the concept of a psychic battle and do it well, there's not enough to differentiate a Psion from a spellcaster. Expecially when you specifically make them a spellcaster.
Scenario: The party is facing down Mind Flayers in their lair. While the physical battle rages, the Psion is engaging Illithids on the Astral Plane, mind vs minds. The Illithids attempt to forcibly smash their way through the Psion's mind shield, but the Psion forms an impregnable tower of willpower around herself. She probes their psychic defenses with sensitive tendrils of thought. Finding a weakness in one of the Mind Flayers' shields she punctures it with a lance of psionic energy and steals a memory of a fearsome foe. Summoning an astral construct with reserves of psionic energy from her ego, she shapes it into the likeness of a Death Tyrant and launches it at the Illithids' astral forms. Using their own emotions against them, the telepathic beast shreds their minds and drains their intellect with irresistible beams of fear and despair. Back in the material world, the Mind Flayers collapse to the ground like marionettes with their strings cut, nothing left but soulless husks.
In this scenario not a single spell is cast. No elaborate gestures or gutteral utterances. The only limits on her abilities are the psionic skills at her command and the psychic energy she can control with her iron willpower (Wisdom), her clever creativity and sharp intellect (Intelligence), her forceful ego and deceptive charm (Charisma), and even her very lifeforce (Constitution).
She's not limited to psychic battle, though. She has incredible control over her own body to counteract poisons and heal damage and with a touch she can exert control over the body of another nearly as easily. She can raise shields of telekinetic force to deflect a barrage of arrows, even grabbing them with her mind and launching them at the enemy leader. At the last, when she is surrounded by an army of foes she laughs and teleports herself well out of range of the strongest bowman.
That's the Psion I want to see. At least a high level one.
Illithids are a rare example of high intelligence monsters. What I could easily envision happening is psion walks up to a stupid tarrasque, mind controls it, win. Admittedly legendary resistances help, but monsters are supposed to succeed on many of their saving throws without relying on a limited number of legendary resistances.
Also, your scenario would be very difficult to represent mechanically.
It would be fairly simple to limit a *non-spell* ability to be less or non effective vs unintelligent creatures. Or to allow psychic defenses that *don't* depend on high intelligence or psionic ability. Just having a high amount of hit points is a defense against psychic damage. And in my scenario I mentioned multiple base abilities that not only help the Psion but could also help a non-psionic creature defend themselves to some degree against certain disciplines. Both Strength and Dexterity could defend against telekinetic attacks as well. And by definition, almost everything a Psion does is a Concentration ability. The Psion might be able to concentrate on more than one thing at a time, but it would be progressively more difficult and draining to do so.
But that only works if you treat Psionics as having its own unique set of rules that duplicate the *effects* of certain spells, but aren't spells or even rely on magic. Which is the point.
If you make the Psion just another spellcaster, then you are absolutely correct; My scenario is completely unbalanced against a wide range of monsters and mechanically difficult to manage. Which is just another argument that they shouldn't be spellcasters.
PS. In the example you gave a mid-level Wizard could *attempt* to the same thing as the Psion and control the monster. More easily in fact, if said monster could use its high constitution and hit dice to resist a Psion's attack.
Whatever. I'm not willing to concede that psionics is just a different kind of magical spell and works exactly the same. The game designers actually concede that they *are* different because they have to modify psionic spells to remove the spell components and then pile a mishmash of re-tooled, old-school concepts on top of that and pretend that it's somehow better than D&D's other failed attempts to incorporate psionic abilities into the game. It's better for *them* certainly. Repackage a bunch of spells into a new spell list and throw on a variation of the older version of the psionics rules and job done. They don't have to think too hard about how to balance the class and they can pat themselves on the back that they paid homage to the old-school psionics user. Except they didn't because it was available to every class.
Psionis are just a different magic. The problem I see with this UA is that it ends up feeling like the same magic that we have had since the beginning of 5e. After doing multiple mock ups of how a Psion could play as half caster and with psi points instead of spell slots I believe half caster is the best. Honestly the only thing that can make Psionics different than the magic we are accustomed to is to use a different mechanic to achieve near equivalent power. None of my mock ups achieved that because I want focused on balancing them, just showing the types of mechanics I believed would work to achieve the goal.
If you ever have the chance to find the 2nd edition Complete Psionics Handbook, have a look. It is not similar to a spell caster.
I’ll say again the mechanics are the only thing that are different. Moving stuff with your mind, casting a spell, using the force, or blasting something with a ki blast is all just magic. With magic being supernatural or preternatural phenomena. The mechanics of how you achieve that is what is important. In 5e 90% of what would make someone psionic is covered by spells. This was not true in 2nd edition. The problem is that in 5e a Psion class covers the same roles as Wizard and sorcerer. So if you just make it full caster what design purpose does it serve.
Also just so you know the 2e psionic system is mechanically just an over complicated spell system that uses points and calls the “spells” powers. You could also reverse it and say that the 5e spell casting system is a simplified psionic system that uses spell slots and calls the “powers” spells.
Niether of the systems directly effect the fantasy you want to achieve. The only real argument against the UA Psion is that it is a new class that doesn’t offer anything new to the game. It’s more reliant on spellcasting than Psionic Energy Dice which is supposed to differentiate it from Wizards and Sorcerers. If there is going to be a new class I would want something that feels mechanically different, but I would never suggest going back to the overly complicated power system of 2e.
Dominate monster is an eighth level spell, so it can only be cast 3 times in a fight, half the amount of LRs a tarrasque has, whereas you want a psion to be able to, "...exert control over the body of another nearly as easily [as their own]." Am I wrong to assume that can be done a few more times than 6?
It was not that complicated. It was a lot more streamlined than mixing psi dice with spell casting levels. This Psion is a clunky hybrid that doesn't differentiate itself from a regular spell caster. Where 2nd editions was its own thing.
How can you say it was more streamlined when you had sciences and disciplines to gain and you had to keep track of points? All the disciplines and sciences have to be written out, which is illy when there are already spells that cover 90% of them. I’ve never played 2e. I started in 3e, but I’m sorry I looked it up and it is not more streamlined for 5e than the UA Psion. I don’t like the UA Psion, but the last thing I want is them to try to patchwork 2e design into 5e. That wouldn’t work.
Never said they should copy paste. But you seem to like the spellcasting aspect of this version more than I do. I would never play it or have it played at my table as a DM. It's not a Psionic it's a mage with extra feats.
100%. There are a few aspects that could have made this class feel like a psionicist but IMO they totally missed the mark by making them spellcasters in the usual D&D sense. I love playing a Wizard but in many ways they are the "glass cannons" and spell slots end up being a limiting factor only mitigated by the introduction of the damage-scaling combat cantrips available in the modern editions. They have a distinct feel to play and that's not how I would want a psionicist to play. To be worthwhile it needs to be different, and it's not. Bolting on energy dice is just an over-complication, not a feature. The game already has plenty of spellcaster variants and I'm certain they will continue to proliferate.
For a "Psion" to feel like a psionics user, it would need to lean into the concept of "Mind Over (Fill in the blank). Mind over Body, Mind over Matter, Mind over Mind, etc. WotC is treating it like a mechanical effect ("Cast Detect Thoughts") instead of an inborn talent honed by skill and practice. Cast this spell, get X result. I'd like something more nuanced than that. Reading someone's mind should feel more like [ Psionic Ability + Psionic Skill ] vs [ Target's resistance + Difficulty ], roll vs DC [ X ] to succeed. They shouldn't be limited to doing it a few times a day like a Wizard would. Yes, there should be some limiting factor but spell slots don't feel the right way to do it.
I don't blame them for not wanting to invent a whole new "magic" system and reinventing mechanical effects (spells) that already exist in the game. Honestly, I get it. But if that's all the effort they want to put into it, they should've just modeled the mechanics off of either the Sorcerer or the Warlock class and kept it simple and not pretend to have done something different.
Yeah, the Psion as given does feel like something you could reproduce with a Sorcerer; the energy dice just adds complexity without achieving that much.
I can understand why they used spells. I mean, if you decided you wanted a system of 'per day' powers, by the time you had defined the parameters of those powers and how many times they could be used then...well, you would end up with the existing spellcasting system anyway. No point reinventing the wheel.
But I would still like to see a version of the Psion that's only a half-caster, where the role of Psionic Disciplines is massively expanded instead (a bit like Warlock invocations perhaps), with more of a 'tree' of level-gated Disciplines.
Some Psionic Disciplines could add lower level spells slots or give you a higher-level spell + spell slot, allowing access to spell levels a half-caster wouldn't normally reach. That way, if you wanted to lean heavily into spellcasting (and make people's heads explode with Psychic Scream) you could. But other Psionic Disciplines could, as others have said, just give straight up psychic powers (perhaps "boostable" using energy dice) or build on some of psychic-based spells. E.g:
"Psychic Defense: You have resistance to Psychic damage. Whenever you fail an Int, Wis or Cha saving throw you may expend and roll a Psionic Energy Die and add the result, potentially turning the failure into a success"
"Enhanced Mind Sliver: Whenever you cast Mind Sliver you may add your Int modifier to the damage roll. In addition, whenever you cause damage with Mind Sliver you may expend and roll a Psionic Damage Die. The target subtracts that number from their next Saving Throw instead of the normal d4".