I understand that the design was attempting to be different than the Valor Bard and Bladesinger, but I find it a misstep to want to shy away from magical items that is typically associated with martial combatants when designing a spellcaster subclass that wants to simulate a martial. You still have some magical items that can improve your spell attack, like the Wand of the War Mage or the Bloodwell Vial and of course a plethora of magical staffs and assorted high-end robes. It just feels a bit weird or perhaps anticlimactic that holding a wand makes you better at hitting with a blade made of magical flames.
Regarding the concentration-free Flame Blade, I would have expected that for a design that relies so heavily on the Flame Blade spell to live out its fantasy of emulating a martial. The amount of friction caused by the 2024 Ranger having free Hunter's Mark and class features to build on top of it, and still have it require concentration whilst there are other Ranger-specific spells that require Concentration and other features in the class and for other classes that specifically removes Concentration from subclass specialized spells, that would seem like a bad pitfall to fall into. Having said all that, I don't think Flame Blade have Concentration as a balance measure, I believe it is more to be consistent with other similar types of spells. So removing it doesn't really move the needle by much. Secondly the Sorc don't have access to CME, so they will mostly use their concentration for Greater Invisibility or Blur to increase their martial performance. Haste doesn't really make much sense when they cannot take the Magic action to attack with the Flame Blade and they are unlikely to have a secondary weapon on hand. More likely they would just concentration on one of the prime control/debuff/support spells available to them (Hypnotic Pattern, Banishment, Wall of Stone, Reverse Gravity, Hold Monster - or to Haste a better Martial).
You cannot cast spells at 10th level, there is no mechanical backing in the rules. Even the Sorc's Twinned Spell Metamagic only says it increases the spell's effective level by one, it doesn't cast as that higher level. There's general upcasting rules, so a GM could skirt the issue but an official piece of content that breaks the general rules without specifically saying it can break the rules, is prone to cause confusion and not be a good design. I'm not sure how to fix this without saying you can break the rules, except to always cast Flame Blade at 2nd level when using Sorc Points and then have Arcane Blade's feature change its effective level to the amount of Sorc Points you spend. This has the probable unintended consequence that for contests (like Dispel Magic or 2014-Counterspell) or suppression-effects that cares about spell level, they would have an easier time to ruin your fun. Another small issue I have with Arcane Blade's Sorc Point avenue is that it doesn't specify that you have to use at least 2 Sorc Points - since you cannot downcast a spell but nothing in the rules prevents me from assuming I can spend 1 Sorc Point and cast FB at level 1. Easy fix to include a minimum of 2 in the text for spending Sorc Points to cast at that level.
Again Mage Armor + Shield nets you 13 + 2-3 DEX + 5 from Shield. 15-16 AC base is going to be a problem going into high tier 2-play and you wont improve it most likely, except with maybe Bracers of Defense and a Cloak of Protection. That's two magic items you cannot guarantee to acquire for a campaign, nor is it particularly satisfying to rely on specific magic items for the subclass to be functional in melee range. You're also dedicating your Reaction to using Shield on top of basically all your lower level spell slots.
A bit of personal experience playing a Bladesinger with Mage Armor's 13 + 3 DEX (because I had CON saves covered) + 5 from Bladesong + 1 Cloak of Protection. I often still had to cast Shield in tier 3+ play and it was not always enough. That's +5 more than the Sorc you're proposing - at least until level 14 where a free Blade Ward [avg. 2.5 AC] is added atop casting Shield. And while the Sorc have a bunch of Temp HP - those disappear very rapidly when your AC don't keep you from getting hit, and your Reaction is mostly locked to cast Shield (to have similar AC as other Martials in high tier 2 and beyond play), so no Absorb Elements/Silvery Barbs/Counterspell.
I see issues playing this subclass as a martial without multiclassing to fix my AC situation. Another thing is that I don't know if the benefits to going melee with Flame Blade is all that better from just staying on the backline with a bunch of bonus Temp HP and slinging my spell slots to deal damage or provide control/utility. Not that this is significantly different from the Bladesinger who could just as easily take the subclass' defensive tools and remain a ranged caster. But at least on the Bladesinger I don't feel scared going into a fight, nor do I feel like I have to spend an enormous amount of resources to barely feel like a martial.
Oh, I didn't realize this before but I fail to see any value in the Arcane Blade benefit that lets your Flame Blade count as a weapon worth 10 GP. It doesn't specify that the Flame Blade is any type of weapon nor the statistics for it - is it a short sword, club, crossbow? So even if it technically satisfies the requirement to cast True Strike (or similar) it is not a weapon for which you can attack with. The Flame Blade spell specifically instructs you to make a spell attack using a Magic action to deal its damage. So there's no synergy with Sword-cantrips. Just thought to point it out and that's a reason to make the Arcane Blade specify a weapon type that it emulates. It doesn't functionally change anything about the Flame Blade's modified damage, it just adds the option to attack with the emulated - whatever - short sword, and THAT can be used with True Strike, Booming Blade, or Green-Flame Blade.
It’s a full spellcaster. It shouldn’t also be a full martial. Well if you want a full caster that is also a full martial you need a new class. It can’t be balanced in the subclass.
I also used Flame Blade to lower the amount of words I had to type. I could have just typed out a feature that lets you summon a blade of arcane energy. Then it would need ways to interact with other sorcerer features like metamagic, so more words to type. Also flame Blade was used to balance certain things. Self Haste is a bad play style in my opinion of a team game. I wanted to avoid that.
It’s not about casting spells at 10th level. The game already supports what happens if you upcast a spell at ninth level and have a feature that cast is one level higher. You increase the damage by whatever it says, or it targets more creatures. Also it doesn’t matter because I wouldn’t design the class around flame blade if I did it again.
As far as having to cast shield a lot while in close combat I say, “good.” This type of design isn’t meant to always be a martial, it is a spellcaster.
Again I say, “good,” if you need to multiclass to be a full martial that is acceptable. It’s what should happen.
I would change so much about this now, it’s not even worth trying to fix the problems in this design. The goal of my design doesn’t align with what most players actually want, and as you point out it has a bunch of things that literally don’t work. I did make it in a rush. I’m a through spaghetti at the wall kind of guy, so I’ve already come up with two designs that are closer to what people would actually want, but every Gish is going to fall short because what people really want is a gestalt character.
A design that draws from actual D&D history. It is a Gish, but it is stilled flawed. Spend too much time in melee and you will die. Level 18 feature needs a lot more words to explain exactly what spells are allowed to be used.
Duskblade Sorcery
3rd: Duskbalde Spells
3rd: Faerie Fire, Thunderwave, Hold Person, Ray of Enfeeblement
5th: Counter Spell, Fireball
7th: Blight, Victriolic Sphere
9th: Hold Monster, Synaptic Static
3rd: Arcane Channeling
When you cast a spell from the Duskblade Spell list on a target in range of a melee weapon you are holding, you can deliver the spell by making an attack roll with the weapon. If the attack hits, the target takes the weapon damage and then the spell effect is resolved as if the target failed the saving throw. If the spell delivered with this method normally affects an area or could target multiple targets it does not. Only the target hit with the melee weapon attack is affected. If the attack misses the spell slot is still expended as the spell has no effect, but your next attack with the weapon that hits before the end of your next turn deals an additional 1d6 per spell level force damage.
3rd: Close Combat Mage
You have proficiency with Martial Weapons and can use your Charisma modifier for attack and damage rolls of melee weapons. You can use Simple and Martial melee weapons as a spell focus. You have training with light armor. If you are hit with an attack while wearing light armor you can use your reaction to reinforce the armor adding your Charisma modifier to your AC until the start of your next turn possibly causing the attack to miss. You can’t reinforce your armor this way until you use a bonus action to reset your armor, complete a short or long rest, or doff and don the same or new armor.
6th: Follow Up
When you take the Magic Action you may make a melee weapon attack as a bonus action. When you take the Attack Action you may cast a cantrip as a bonus action.
14th: Extra Attack
You can attack twice instead of once when you take the attack action.
18th: Improve Channeling
You can use Arcane Channelling to deliver any spell you have prepared that is one action and requires a saving throw.
This one was actually made first and focuses on being able to survive in melee when you use Innate Sorcery. Definitely has flaws considering I spent less time on it. It has ideas I think are fun. Battle Sorcery
3rd Battle Spells
3rd: Armor of Agathys, Mage Armor, Arcane Vigor, Magic Weapon
5th: Conjure Barrage, Wind Wall
7th: Death Ward, Fire Shield
9th: Steel Wind Strike, Wall of Force
3rd Blade Magic
When you wield a magical melee weapon you gain proficiency with the weapon until you are no longer holding it. The weapon can be one that is permanently magical or one that is temporarily magical due to a spell like Magic Weapon or Light (cantrip) being cast upon it. Additionally you may use your Charisma modifier for Attack and Damage rolls of any melee weapon you are proficient with.
6th Innate Combat Magics
While using Innate Sorcery you gain the following magical benefits.
Defensive Shroud- You gain a bonus to your AC equal to half your Charisma modifier rounded up if you aren’t wearing armor or using a shield (minimum +1)
Fast Strikes- If you have not cast a spell using a spell slot this turn you can take a Magic Action to make two weapon attacks with a magical weapon. You can not cast a spell using a spell slot until the end of this turn.
Spell Blitz- Immediately after a creature you can see within 100ft takes damage from a 1st level+ spell you cast this turn, you may use your bonus action to teleport to an unoccupied space within 5ft of the creature and make one melee weapon attack against it.
14th Explosive Strike
Once on your turn when you hit with a weapon attack you may expend a spellslot to cause your weapon to erupt with magical energy sending a 30 ft line or 15ft cone straight through the target dealing 1d8+ 1d4 per spellslot level Acid (1), Cold (2), Fire (3), Lightning (4), Necrotic (5), Poison (6), Radiant (7), or Thunder (8), Psychic (9), Force (10) damage to the target and any other creature in the area that fails Dex save against your spell save DC. The damage type depends on the roll of the d10.
18th Battle Magic Mastery
You gain the following benefits.
Extra Attack- You can attack twice instead once when you take the attack action.
Defensive Cloud- You always have the bonus to AC from Defensive Should, when using Innate Sorcery it increases to your Charisma modifier instead of half rounded up.
Faster Strikes- You can make three melee weapon attacks with Swift Strikes instead of two.
Improve Spell Blitz- When you use Spell Blitz you can make two weapon attacks as part of the bonus action instead of one.
Precision Explosive Strike- You can choose the damage of Explosive Strikes instead of letting the d10 decide.
As far as having to cast shield a lot while in close combat I say, “good.” This type of design isn’t meant to always be a martial, it is a spellcaster.
Again I say, “good,” if you need to multiclass to be a full martial that is acceptable. It’s what should happen.
I fundamentally disagree with you that it is the ideal for a gish design to require multiclassing to function as a martial. Multiclassing might be more efficient, or min-max'ed but it should never be something that feels even close to required for the fantasy to function.
Having your gish design locking your Reaction to always spend a rather limited resource in order to exist on the frontline at higher levels of play is neither a good design philosophy in my eyes.
Requiring the gish to some extend spend their limited magical resources to function on the same level as a martial is fundamentally sound - that's the cost required to have spells but still perform somewhat like a martial. However this should be balanced with great care.
For instance the Bladesinger have low HP but high AC with the option to get really high with the use of the Shield spell. They fare worse against attacks that hit their saves - but their spells can again assist them here with Absorb Elements or their level 10 subclass feature. They have the initial high barrier to get damaged, but not much toughness to resist attacks that do get through. That's the trade off the Bladesinger gish works under. The proposed Sorc have medium AC with the option to get high AC with the Shield spell. They also fare poorly against attacks that hit their saves. They have the same low HP as the Bladesinger but are assisted with some temp HP. Having a lower initial barrier to get damaged you are more prone to require using Shield (costing you more on your resources). You have a little more HP (per Short Rest) to endure attacks that get through, but you are also less likely to have an answer to attacks-on-saves (because you had to Shield) and thus also receive a lot more punishment from attacks. Another thing that some might not consider is enemy attack patterns. If the GM is considering their NPCs a little intelligent (like wolves), they are more likely to want to attack the lightly robed frontliner, than the one wearing armor. Although I think most GMs just goes first-come-first-serve or share-the-pain, which narratively removes some of the disadvantage of being a lightly clad frontliner that looks comparatively easier to hit and kill.
If we consider any martial class to this Sorc, they generally have: higher AC, higher HP, more defensive features that increase their barrier to take damage (more AC/Saves - DEX-mains) or reduces damage they receive (Rage, Deflect Attack, Evasion), better means to restore HP (Arcane Vigor tapping your Hit Dice AND spells compared to Second Wind/Uncanny Metabolism), higher (single-target) damage, and fewer limited resources.
The gish cannot have a majority of these strengths that a martial excel at, but they should have at least some. And not at the expense of throwing all their own strengths away for it, because then you end up with a non-caster gish that also isn't a good martial - aka excels at nothing.
The Sorcerer having action-cost-free conversion of Spell Slots to Sorcerer Points is actually a really solid foundation for the subclass to utilize Sorc Points for your defenses as it makes your spell slots a lot more flexible in converting into defensive power - in contrast to using lvl 2+ spell slots to cast Shield. When playing a usual Gish-esque combat routine you also don't cast that many spells that could require Metamagic and thus Sorc Points. However I still find the gap between subclass feature levels to be very uncomfortable in order to provide continued support for the gish playstyle. Basically the lvl 3 and 6 features needs benefits that scale with your level and other features to extend beyond their level threshold.
Having just read through the two new designs I do find a certain appeal to the Duskblade design. I do find its defenses lacking though. Light Amor Training is good to allow magical items and not require Mage Armor, but the close-to "Defensive Duelist" that requires a reset seems... excessively costly, especially since you really want to use your Bonus Action to add to your offense later on. Like stated above I find Sorc Points ripe to utilize for defense. Perhaps a 1 Sorc Point to bypass a reset could function decently with a possible option to spend 1 Sorc Point to not require you use your Reaction - meaning when you have excess Sorc Points (mostly due to Sorc lvls + converting higher level spell slots) you can both use the DD reaction-free and have your Reaction to cast Shield/Absorb Elements/Silvery Barbs/Counterspell. Yes, that's possibly 12 AC + 3 DEX + 5 DD + 5 Shield for 25 AC - but at the cost of 2 Sorc Points and a lvl 1 spell slot. You can't keep that up for long. (and the Bladesinger cousin have 13 + 3 DEX + 5 Bladesong for 21 static AC + 5 from Shield. The Valor Bard having 15 Med + 2 DEX + 2 Shield item for 19 static AC + 5 from Shield (not part of their spell list inno, but easy to pickup with Magic Initiate).
I would likely change the requirement to instead of having to wear Light Armor you just cannot wear a Shield. One reason is Mage Armor as an alternative. The reason not to exclude Medium or Heavy Armor (which I gather was the intend) is because acquiring either is an investment in stats and likely multiclassing. At bare minimum that's 13 STR multiclass Paladin/Fighter to get Chain Mail (16 AC) or 13 DEX Fighter for Half Plate (16 AC) which is not an insane improvement over Studded's 12 + 3 DEX AC (considering the DEX also help with DEX-saves). Getting 15 STR or 14 DEX to increase AC to 18 or 17 (with the stealth debuff) seems like a fair stat investment and postponing your break-points. Then there's of course Fighting Style: Defense for a +1 AC on Fighter 1 or Pala 2. Adding the requirement-free Shield item on top with the multiclass does seem a bit much. As it stands getting 1 lvl in Fighter for Shield item + Fighting Style: Defense is still a +3 to your 15 AC for 18 AC. Medium's max 18 AC or Heavy's 19 AC doesn't seem so different then.
Innate Sorcery is also a good candidate to add some defensive benefits to, as the 7th lvl class feature allows you to spend 2 Sorc Points to restore a use of it, meaning you can often fuel it with magic.
With a more lax limitation on the Close Combat Mage benefit (Sorc Point to bypass, less armor restrictions) the AC amount could be lowered to a static +3 with the Innate Sorcery covering for some of the lost defenses.
A mix of the two could secure a lot of defensive power to a Sorc gish design without having either one feel too busted and would help bridge the gap between lvl 6 and 14 as it functions of a class feature that you already sort of scale by level (by having more Sorc Points and Spell Slots to fuel uses).
Nothing was forcing you to always cast shield on that Arcane Warrior build. The assumption that you will be attacked every round is unrealistic. The assumption that the enemy will always exceed your AC requiring you to cast shield is also unrealistic. You do know Bladesinger lost Light Armor in 2024, right? The only reason I gave it to the Duskblade design is because it was there in 3.5e, and I wanted to keep some things similar to the past design. The reaction for Cha to AC is only to light armor because of the way imagined it working. Honestly making it for “no armor or light armor,” isn’t a problem. Getting rid of the reset is a problem. It needs an action economy cost, and sure spend a sorcery point to use it again without resetting it. I don’t know if I would use my sorcery points for that, but there is no reason to not give that option.
I wouldn’t give a sorcerer subclass too much armor without a cost otherwise it could become the best sorcerer subclass, even if you aren’t going to go into melee. Creating a new class might be the best way to create a full caster Gish, but since wizard, bard, and cleric have Gish subclasses the sorcerer deserves something too. The reason I think WotC hasn’t given us something is the sorcery point problem, and they haven’t found the right fantasy. They tried it with Earth Sorcery in a UA, but that was honestly bad. It didn’t fit the fantasy of its name and just had some smite spells.
Because I was bored I took another shot at Arcane Warrior. I think this is the best idea I have had to address the AC of a Gish. I still like the idea of not competing for the same weapons as martials.
You can cast Flame Blade by expending 2 Sorcery points. When you use Sorcery Points to cast the spell it becomes an Arcane Blade. As an Arcane Blade the spell’s duration becomes 1 minute and it has the following benefits.
The spell doesn't require concentration.
You can hold a wand or rod in the same hand as the Flame Blade
You may choose the damage type: Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Necrotic, Poison, or Radiant
You may use the Arcane Blade as a spell focus.
The Arcane Blade counts as a simple finesse melee weapon worth 10 gp and deals 1d6 damage of the chosen type if used with a weapon attack.
3rd Warrior’s Magic Armor
When you cast Mage Armor with a spell slot you gain an additional bonus to the AC provided by the spell, the bonus is equal to the level of the spell slot used, up to the maximum bonus. The maximum bonus to AC is +5. If you cast it with a 6th level or higher spell slot you also gain three times the spell slot level temporary hit points.
6th Swift Blade
When you use a Magic Action to attack with an Arcane Blade you may make a second attack with the Arcane Blade as part of the same Action.
14th Improved Blade
When you cast Flame Blade with a spell slot or sorcery points you may expend sorcery points to improve the Flame Blade for this casting. You may spend sorcery points on multiple options, but may only use each option once per casting.
Arcane Blade- 1 SP per spell level above 2nd- Your Flame Blade is an Arcane Blade.
Accurate Blade- 1 SP- You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls with Flame Blade
Bright Blade- 1 SP- Your Flame Blade sheds bright light 40ft and dim light another 40ft
Daylight Blade- 1 SP- The Light of your Flame Blade is Daylight.
Long Blade- 1 SP- Your Flame Blade has 10ft reach.
Powerful Blade- 2 SP- Your Flame Blade uses d8s instead of d6s for damage
Strong Blade- 2 SP- Your Flame Blade deals 1 additional die of damage.
18th Arcane Blade Master
Your Mastery of using arcane magic in close combat grants you the following benefits.
When you use a Magic Action to attack with an Arcane Blade you may make three attacks with the Arcane Blade as part of the same Action.
Anytime you hit with Flame Blade you can choose the damage type and you can choose any damage type.
Once on your turn when you hit with Flame Blade you may use your bonus action to expend a spell slot and add 1d6+1d6 per spell slot level additional damage of the same type as Flame Blade.
Nothing was forcing you to always cast shield on that Arcane Warrior build. The assumption that you will be attacked every round is unrealistic. The assumption that the enemy will always exceed your AC requiring you to cast shield is also unrealistic.
This pairs with the attack pattern I mentioned earlier. If your Sorcerer is on the frontline, then you are more prone to be the target of an attack than an armor-clad Fighter if the GM considers the NPCs semi-intelligent.
Additionally I was referring to higher levels of play, aka tier 3+. I would expect your GM at this stage to include either enemies that attack en-masse or a multitude of enemies, which means your Sorcerer is going to be attacked. At tier 3, the average bonus to attack is somewhere around +8-10 to hit (for CR 11-15 - realistically it should go to something like CR 18-19), with your AC of 15-16, that's 65-80 % to hit your AC or in other words: very likely.
I don't think its unrealistic to say that if a Sorc goes to the frontline in tier 3+ play, they are going to get hit, a lot. Meaning you almost always have high incentive to cast Shield.
This increases exponentially when enemy bonus to hit in tier 4 jumps to +13-15.
You do know Bladesinger lost Light Armor in 2024, right? The only reason I gave it to the Duskblade design is because it was there in 3.5e, and I wanted to keep some things similar to the past design.
Yes. I also never mentioned the Bladesinger using Light Armor. I said Mage Armor.
The reaction for Cha to AC is only to light armor because of the way imagined it working. Honestly making it for “no armor or light armor,” isn’t a problem. Getting rid of the reset is a problem. It needs an action economy cost, and sure spend a sorcery point to use it again without resetting it. I don’t know if I would use my sorcery points for that, but there is no reason to not give that option.
The reason I compared to the Bladesinger is due to Bladesong's temporary passive +INT to AC that is a significant upgrade over the Duskblade's defenses. So I went about making it less limiting by allowing a substitute for your Action Economy. Sure if you don't require your BA, use it for a free reset. But otherwise I feel like many Sorcs that want to live on the frontline would gladly pitch a lvl 3-5 spell slot to get that many Action-free uses of the defense feature in order to utilize the lvl 6 feature.
I am not sure if you wanted to say getting rid of the Reaction rather than reset would be a problem. Because as is, it always requires a Reaction to activate and then you would also have it require a Bonus Action to be able to use it again.
I wouldn’t give a sorcerer subclass too much armor without a cost otherwise it could become the best sorcerer subclass, even if you aren’t going to go into melee.
The Draconic Sorc is already playing at 10 + 3 DEX + 3 CHA for 16 AC at lvl 3 with +1 at lvls 4 and 8 for 18 AC passively. It also gives you Damage Resistance to an elemental damage type; Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Poison. And a 60 ft. Fly Speed to really stay out of range with a caster build.
Again the Bladesinger is also accessible for Wizards to pump their passive AC quite high; 13 + 2-3 DEX + 3-5 INT for 18-21 AC for 3-5 times 1 minute per Long Rest. The Valor Bard provides Medium Armor + Shield for up to 19 passive AC. Those subclasses don't blow the other options out of the water.
For the Duskblade to have 12 Studded + 3 DEX + 3 CCM (assuming lowered to counter the added flexibility) for a relatively passive AC of 18, doesn't seem like too much. Additionally the Duskblade is presumably spending their Reaction for CCM to have similar passive AC as the Bladesinger/Valor Bard.
All 3 variants can then cast Shield for an additional +5 to AC (for Duskblade assuming you can pay to remove the Reaction cost from CCM).
The Duskblade would get up to 23 AC at the cost of 2 Sorc Points and a 1st lvl spell slot. That doesn't seem amazing in my eyes when the Bladesinger is at 24-26 at the cost of 1 use of Bladesong (that lasts 1 minute), 1x 1st lvl spell slot for Mage Armor (per Long Rest), and 1x 1st lvl spell slot for Shield - and thereafter just 1x 1st lvl spell slot for Shield.
To acquire other Armor Training would require Multiclassing/Feats and that is a cost AND it is just as readily available to the caster build as it is the gish build. Still you don't see many Fullcasters multiclass Fighter to get Heavy/Medium Armor + Shield.
Even if we had a 1 Fighter / 3+ Sorc: Duskblade, the AC situation for a Medium Armor would be 15 + 2 DEX + 1 FS:D + 3 CCM for 21 at the cost of 1 Sorc Point (assuming we want to use our BA for the lvl 6 feature down the line). Add +5 with Shield with 1 more Sorc Point + 1x 1st lvl spell slot.
I think you're being too cautious not to approach the perceived issues with the Hexblade 2014 to make a functional defense situation for a gish build that doesn't hamper their subclass features and actually end up hurting the gish build more than a caster build.
Creating a new class might be the best way to create a full caster Gish, but since wizard, bard, and cleric have Gish subclasses the sorcerer deserves something too. The reason I think WotC hasn’t given us something is the sorcery point problem, and they haven’t found the right fantasy. They tried it with Earth Sorcery in a UA, but that was honestly bad. It didn’t fit the fantasy of its name and just had some smite spells.
I wholeheartedly agree that to make a better gish fantasy, a dedicated class would be a lot better. The issue with the gish fantasy in the current situation is trying to push a Martial play pattern over a Caster foundation or to push Caster features over a Martial foundation.
I fear that half-casters were the attempt at making a hybrid character, but they both fail in incorporating martial and caster features in the same ground-work or rather within the same Action Economy as the Full Martial/Caster classes. More often than not the half caster feels like choosing between a semi-proficient Martial or a poor Spellcaster. You said it pretty well before that the ideal for a gish is a gestalt character, the collective have to be better than the sum of the pieces.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't think Paladin nor Ranger are bad classes... well the Ranger still feels a bit iffy, mostly due to Hunter's Mark. The Paladin is also basically a Tank Martial that have a few magical features and they are assisted heavily by the power of their Aura of Protection to stand out.
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I understand that the design was attempting to be different than the Valor Bard and Bladesinger, but I find it a misstep to want to shy away from magical items that is typically associated with martial combatants when designing a spellcaster subclass that wants to simulate a martial. You still have some magical items that can improve your spell attack, like the Wand of the War Mage or the Bloodwell Vial and of course a plethora of magical staffs and assorted high-end robes. It just feels a bit weird or perhaps anticlimactic that holding a wand makes you better at hitting with a blade made of magical flames.
Regarding the concentration-free Flame Blade, I would have expected that for a design that relies so heavily on the Flame Blade spell to live out its fantasy of emulating a martial. The amount of friction caused by the 2024 Ranger having free Hunter's Mark and class features to build on top of it, and still have it require concentration whilst there are other Ranger-specific spells that require Concentration and other features in the class and for other classes that specifically removes Concentration from subclass specialized spells, that would seem like a bad pitfall to fall into.
Having said all that, I don't think Flame Blade have Concentration as a balance measure, I believe it is more to be consistent with other similar types of spells. So removing it doesn't really move the needle by much. Secondly the Sorc don't have access to CME, so they will mostly use their concentration for Greater Invisibility or Blur to increase their martial performance. Haste doesn't really make much sense when they cannot take the Magic action to attack with the Flame Blade and they are unlikely to have a secondary weapon on hand. More likely they would just concentration on one of the prime control/debuff/support spells available to them (Hypnotic Pattern, Banishment, Wall of Stone, Reverse Gravity, Hold Monster - or to Haste a better Martial).
You cannot cast spells at 10th level, there is no mechanical backing in the rules. Even the Sorc's Twinned Spell Metamagic only says it increases the spell's effective level by one, it doesn't cast as that higher level. There's general upcasting rules, so a GM could skirt the issue but an official piece of content that breaks the general rules without specifically saying it can break the rules, is prone to cause confusion and not be a good design. I'm not sure how to fix this without saying you can break the rules, except to always cast Flame Blade at 2nd level when using Sorc Points and then have Arcane Blade's feature change its effective level to the amount of Sorc Points you spend. This has the probable unintended consequence that for contests (like Dispel Magic or 2014-Counterspell) or suppression-effects that cares about spell level, they would have an easier time to ruin your fun.
Another small issue I have with Arcane Blade's Sorc Point avenue is that it doesn't specify that you have to use at least 2 Sorc Points - since you cannot downcast a spell but nothing in the rules prevents me from assuming I can spend 1 Sorc Point and cast FB at level 1. Easy fix to include a minimum of 2 in the text for spending Sorc Points to cast at that level.
Again Mage Armor + Shield nets you 13 + 2-3 DEX + 5 from Shield. 15-16 AC base is going to be a problem going into high tier 2-play and you wont improve it most likely, except with maybe Bracers of Defense and a Cloak of Protection. That's two magic items you cannot guarantee to acquire for a campaign, nor is it particularly satisfying to rely on specific magic items for the subclass to be functional in melee range. You're also dedicating your Reaction to using Shield on top of basically all your lower level spell slots.
A bit of personal experience playing a Bladesinger with Mage Armor's 13 + 3 DEX (because I had CON saves covered) + 5 from Bladesong + 1 Cloak of Protection. I often still had to cast Shield in tier 3+ play and it was not always enough. That's +5 more than the Sorc you're proposing - at least until level 14 where a free Blade Ward [avg. 2.5 AC] is added atop casting Shield. And while the Sorc have a bunch of Temp HP - those disappear very rapidly when your AC don't keep you from getting hit, and your Reaction is mostly locked to cast Shield (to have similar AC as other Martials in high tier 2 and beyond play), so no Absorb Elements/Silvery Barbs/Counterspell.
I see issues playing this subclass as a martial without multiclassing to fix my AC situation. Another thing is that I don't know if the benefits to going melee with Flame Blade is all that better from just staying on the backline with a bunch of bonus Temp HP and slinging my spell slots to deal damage or provide control/utility. Not that this is significantly different from the Bladesinger who could just as easily take the subclass' defensive tools and remain a ranged caster. But at least on the Bladesinger I don't feel scared going into a fight, nor do I feel like I have to spend an enormous amount of resources to barely feel like a martial.
Oh, I didn't realize this before but I fail to see any value in the Arcane Blade benefit that lets your Flame Blade count as a weapon worth 10 GP. It doesn't specify that the Flame Blade is any type of weapon nor the statistics for it - is it a short sword, club, crossbow? So even if it technically satisfies the requirement to cast True Strike (or similar) it is not a weapon for which you can attack with. The Flame Blade spell specifically instructs you to make a spell attack using a Magic action to deal its damage. So there's no synergy with Sword-cantrips.
Just thought to point it out and that's a reason to make the Arcane Blade specify a weapon type that it emulates. It doesn't functionally change anything about the Flame Blade's modified damage, it just adds the option to attack with the emulated - whatever - short sword, and THAT can be used with True Strike, Booming Blade, or Green-Flame Blade.
It’s a full spellcaster. It shouldn’t also be a full martial. Well if you want a full caster that is also a full martial you need a new class. It can’t be balanced in the subclass.
I also used Flame Blade to lower the amount of words I had to type. I could have just typed out a feature that lets you summon a blade of arcane energy. Then it would need ways to interact with other sorcerer features like metamagic, so more words to type. Also flame Blade was used to balance certain things. Self Haste is a bad play style in my opinion of a team game. I wanted to avoid that.
It’s not about casting spells at 10th level. The game already supports what happens if you upcast a spell at ninth level and have a feature that cast is one level higher. You increase the damage by whatever it says, or it targets more creatures. Also it doesn’t matter because I wouldn’t design the class around flame blade if I did it again.
As far as having to cast shield a lot while in close combat I say, “good.” This type of design isn’t meant to always be a martial, it is a spellcaster.
Again I say, “good,” if you need to multiclass to be a full martial that is acceptable. It’s what should happen.
I would change so much about this now, it’s not even worth trying to fix the problems in this design. The goal of my design doesn’t align with what most players actually want, and as you point out it has a bunch of things that literally don’t work. I did make it in a rush. I’m a through spaghetti at the wall kind of guy, so I’ve already come up with two designs that are closer to what people would actually want, but every Gish is going to fall short because what people really want is a gestalt character.
A design that draws from actual D&D history. It is a Gish, but it is stilled flawed. Spend too much time in melee and you will die. Level 18 feature needs a lot more words to explain exactly what spells are allowed to be used.
Duskblade Sorcery
3rd: Duskbalde Spells
3rd: Arcane Channeling
When you cast a spell from the Duskblade Spell list on a target in range of a melee weapon you are holding, you can deliver the spell by making an attack roll with the weapon. If the attack hits, the target takes the weapon damage and then the spell effect is resolved as if the target failed the saving throw. If the spell delivered with this method normally affects an area or could target multiple targets it does not. Only the target hit with the melee weapon attack is affected. If the attack misses the spell slot is still expended as the spell has no effect, but your next attack with the weapon that hits before the end of your next turn deals an additional 1d6 per spell level force damage.
3rd: Close Combat Mage
You have proficiency with Martial Weapons and can use your Charisma modifier for attack and damage rolls of melee weapons. You can use Simple and Martial melee weapons as a spell focus. You have training with light armor. If you are hit with an attack while wearing light armor you can use your reaction to reinforce the armor adding your Charisma modifier to your AC until the start of your next turn possibly causing the attack to miss. You can’t reinforce your armor this way until you use a bonus action to reset your armor, complete a short or long rest, or doff and don the same or new armor.
6th: Follow Up
When you take the Magic Action you may make a melee weapon attack as a bonus action. When you take the Attack Action you may cast a cantrip as a bonus action.
14th: Extra Attack
You can attack twice instead of once when you take the attack action.
18th: Improve Channeling
You can use Arcane Channelling to deliver any spell you have prepared that is one action and requires a saving throw.
This one was actually made first and focuses on being able to survive in melee when you use Innate Sorcery. Definitely has flaws considering I spent less time on it. It has ideas I think are fun.
Battle Sorcery
3rd Battle Spells
3rd Blade Magic
When you wield a magical melee weapon you gain proficiency with the weapon until you are no longer holding it. The weapon can be one that is permanently magical or one that is temporarily magical due to a spell like Magic Weapon or Light (cantrip) being cast upon it. Additionally you may use your Charisma modifier for Attack and Damage rolls of any melee weapon you are proficient with.
6th Innate Combat Magics
While using Innate Sorcery you gain the following magical benefits.
14th Explosive Strike
Once on your turn when you hit with a weapon attack you may expend a spellslot to cause your weapon to erupt with magical energy sending a 30 ft line or 15ft cone straight through the target dealing 1d8+ 1d4 per spellslot level Acid (1), Cold (2), Fire (3), Lightning (4), Necrotic (5), Poison (6), Radiant (7), or Thunder (8), Psychic (9), Force (10) damage to the target and any other creature in the area that fails Dex save against your spell save DC. The damage type depends on the roll of the d10.
18th Battle Magic Mastery
You gain the following benefits.
I fundamentally disagree with you that it is the ideal for a gish design to require multiclassing to function as a martial. Multiclassing might be more efficient, or min-max'ed but it should never be something that feels even close to required for the fantasy to function.
Having your gish design locking your Reaction to always spend a rather limited resource in order to exist on the frontline at higher levels of play is neither a good design philosophy in my eyes.
Requiring the gish to some extend spend their limited magical resources to function on the same level as a martial is fundamentally sound - that's the cost required to have spells but still perform somewhat like a martial. However this should be balanced with great care.
For instance the Bladesinger have low HP but high AC with the option to get really high with the use of the Shield spell. They fare worse against attacks that hit their saves - but their spells can again assist them here with Absorb Elements or their level 10 subclass feature. They have the initial high barrier to get damaged, but not much toughness to resist attacks that do get through. That's the trade off the Bladesinger gish works under.
The proposed Sorc have medium AC with the option to get high AC with the Shield spell. They also fare poorly against attacks that hit their saves. They have the same low HP as the Bladesinger but are assisted with some temp HP. Having a lower initial barrier to get damaged you are more prone to require using Shield (costing you more on your resources). You have a little more HP (per Short Rest) to endure attacks that get through, but you are also less likely to have an answer to attacks-on-saves (because you had to Shield) and thus also receive a lot more punishment from attacks.
Another thing that some might not consider is enemy attack patterns. If the GM is considering their NPCs a little intelligent (like wolves), they are more likely to want to attack the lightly robed frontliner, than the one wearing armor. Although I think most GMs just goes first-come-first-serve or share-the-pain, which narratively removes some of the disadvantage of being a lightly clad frontliner that looks comparatively easier to hit and kill.
If we consider any martial class to this Sorc, they generally have: higher AC, higher HP, more defensive features that increase their barrier to take damage (more AC/Saves - DEX-mains) or reduces damage they receive (Rage, Deflect Attack, Evasion), better means to restore HP (Arcane Vigor tapping your Hit Dice AND spells compared to Second Wind/Uncanny Metabolism), higher (single-target) damage, and fewer limited resources.
The gish cannot have a majority of these strengths that a martial excel at, but they should have at least some. And not at the expense of throwing all their own strengths away for it, because then you end up with a non-caster gish that also isn't a good martial - aka excels at nothing.
The Sorcerer having action-cost-free conversion of Spell Slots to Sorcerer Points is actually a really solid foundation for the subclass to utilize Sorc Points for your defenses as it makes your spell slots a lot more flexible in converting into defensive power - in contrast to using lvl 2+ spell slots to cast Shield. When playing a usual Gish-esque combat routine you also don't cast that many spells that could require Metamagic and thus Sorc Points. However I still find the gap between subclass feature levels to be very uncomfortable in order to provide continued support for the gish playstyle. Basically the lvl 3 and 6 features needs benefits that scale with your level and other features to extend beyond their level threshold.
Having just read through the two new designs I do find a certain appeal to the Duskblade design.
I do find its defenses lacking though. Light Amor Training is good to allow magical items and not require Mage Armor, but the close-to "Defensive Duelist" that requires a reset seems... excessively costly, especially since you really want to use your Bonus Action to add to your offense later on. Like stated above I find Sorc Points ripe to utilize for defense. Perhaps a 1 Sorc Point to bypass a reset could function decently with a possible option to spend 1 Sorc Point to not require you use your Reaction - meaning when you have excess Sorc Points (mostly due to Sorc lvls + converting higher level spell slots) you can both use the DD reaction-free and have your Reaction to cast Shield/Absorb Elements/Silvery Barbs/Counterspell. Yes, that's possibly 12 AC + 3 DEX + 5 DD + 5 Shield for 25 AC - but at the cost of 2 Sorc Points and a lvl 1 spell slot. You can't keep that up for long. (and the Bladesinger cousin have 13 + 3 DEX + 5 Bladesong for 21 static AC + 5 from Shield. The Valor Bard having 15 Med + 2 DEX + 2 Shield item for 19 static AC + 5 from Shield (not part of their spell list inno, but easy to pickup with Magic Initiate).
I would likely change the requirement to instead of having to wear Light Armor you just cannot wear a Shield. One reason is Mage Armor as an alternative. The reason not to exclude Medium or Heavy Armor (which I gather was the intend) is because acquiring either is an investment in stats and likely multiclassing. At bare minimum that's 13 STR multiclass Paladin/Fighter to get Chain Mail (16 AC) or 13 DEX Fighter for Half Plate (16 AC) which is not an insane improvement over Studded's 12 + 3 DEX AC (considering the DEX also help with DEX-saves). Getting 15 STR or 14 DEX to increase AC to 18 or 17 (with the stealth debuff) seems like a fair stat investment and postponing your break-points. Then there's of course Fighting Style: Defense for a +1 AC on Fighter 1 or Pala 2. Adding the requirement-free Shield item on top with the multiclass does seem a bit much.
As it stands getting 1 lvl in Fighter for Shield item + Fighting Style: Defense is still a +3 to your 15 AC for 18 AC. Medium's max 18 AC or Heavy's 19 AC doesn't seem so different then.
Innate Sorcery is also a good candidate to add some defensive benefits to, as the 7th lvl class feature allows you to spend 2 Sorc Points to restore a use of it, meaning you can often fuel it with magic.
With a more lax limitation on the Close Combat Mage benefit (Sorc Point to bypass, less armor restrictions) the AC amount could be lowered to a static +3 with the Innate Sorcery covering for some of the lost defenses.
A mix of the two could secure a lot of defensive power to a Sorc gish design without having either one feel too busted and would help bridge the gap between lvl 6 and 14 as it functions of a class feature that you already sort of scale by level (by having more Sorc Points and Spell Slots to fuel uses).
That's at least my initial thoughts.
Nothing was forcing you to always cast shield on that Arcane Warrior build. The assumption that you will be attacked every round is unrealistic. The assumption that the enemy will always exceed your AC requiring you to cast shield is also unrealistic.
You do know Bladesinger lost Light Armor in 2024, right? The only reason I gave it to the Duskblade design is because it was there in 3.5e, and I wanted to keep some things similar to the past design.
The reaction for Cha to AC is only to light armor because of the way imagined it working. Honestly making it for “no armor or light armor,” isn’t a problem. Getting rid of the reset is a problem. It needs an action economy cost, and sure spend a sorcery point to use it again without resetting it. I don’t know if I would use my sorcery points for that, but there is no reason to not give that option.
I wouldn’t give a sorcerer subclass too much armor without a cost otherwise it could become the best sorcerer subclass, even if you aren’t going to go into melee. Creating a new class might be the best way to create a full caster Gish, but since wizard, bard, and cleric have Gish subclasses the sorcerer deserves something too. The reason I think WotC hasn’t given us something is the sorcery point problem, and they haven’t found the right fantasy. They tried it with Earth Sorcery in a UA, but that was honestly bad. It didn’t fit the fantasy of its name and just had some smite spells.
Because I was bored I took another shot at Arcane Warrior. I think this is the best idea I have had to address the AC of a Gish. I still like the idea of not competing for the same weapons as martials.
Arcane Warrior
3rd Arcane Warrior Spells
3rd Arcane Blade
You can cast Flame Blade by expending 2 Sorcery points. When you use Sorcery Points to cast the spell it becomes an Arcane Blade. As an Arcane Blade the spell’s duration becomes 1 minute and it has the following benefits.
3rd Warrior’s Magic Armor
When you cast Mage Armor with a spell slot you gain an additional bonus to the AC provided by the spell, the bonus is equal to the level of the spell slot used, up to the maximum bonus. The maximum bonus to AC is +5. If you cast it with a 6th level or higher spell slot you also gain three times the spell slot level temporary hit points.
6th Swift Blade
When you use a Magic Action to attack with an Arcane Blade you may make a second attack with the Arcane Blade as part of the same Action.
14th Improved Blade
When you cast Flame Blade with a spell slot or sorcery points you may expend sorcery points to improve the Flame Blade for this casting. You may spend sorcery points on multiple options, but may only use each option once per casting.
18th Arcane Blade Master
Your Mastery of using arcane magic in close combat grants you the following benefits.
This pairs with the attack pattern I mentioned earlier. If your Sorcerer is on the frontline, then you are more prone to be the target of an attack than an armor-clad Fighter if the GM considers the NPCs semi-intelligent.
Additionally I was referring to higher levels of play, aka tier 3+. I would expect your GM at this stage to include either enemies that attack en-masse or a multitude of enemies, which means your Sorcerer is going to be attacked. At tier 3, the average bonus to attack is somewhere around +8-10 to hit (for CR 11-15 - realistically it should go to something like CR 18-19), with your AC of 15-16, that's 65-80 % to hit your AC or in other words: very likely.
I don't think its unrealistic to say that if a Sorc goes to the frontline in tier 3+ play, they are going to get hit, a lot. Meaning you almost always have high incentive to cast Shield.
This increases exponentially when enemy bonus to hit in tier 4 jumps to +13-15.
Yes. I also never mentioned the Bladesinger using Light Armor. I said Mage Armor.
The reason I compared to the Bladesinger is due to Bladesong's temporary passive +INT to AC that is a significant upgrade over the Duskblade's defenses. So I went about making it less limiting by allowing a substitute for your Action Economy. Sure if you don't require your BA, use it for a free reset. But otherwise I feel like many Sorcs that want to live on the frontline would gladly pitch a lvl 3-5 spell slot to get that many Action-free uses of the defense feature in order to utilize the lvl 6 feature.
I am not sure if you wanted to say getting rid of the Reaction rather than reset would be a problem. Because as is, it always requires a Reaction to activate and then you would also have it require a Bonus Action to be able to use it again.
The Draconic Sorc is already playing at 10 + 3 DEX + 3 CHA for 16 AC at lvl 3 with +1 at lvls 4 and 8 for 18 AC passively. It also gives you Damage Resistance to an elemental damage type; Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Poison. And a 60 ft. Fly Speed to really stay out of range with a caster build.
Again the Bladesinger is also accessible for Wizards to pump their passive AC quite high; 13 + 2-3 DEX + 3-5 INT for 18-21 AC for 3-5 times 1 minute per Long Rest. The Valor Bard provides Medium Armor + Shield for up to 19 passive AC. Those subclasses don't blow the other options out of the water.
For the Duskblade to have 12 Studded + 3 DEX + 3 CCM (assuming lowered to counter the added flexibility) for a relatively passive AC of 18, doesn't seem like too much. Additionally the Duskblade is presumably spending their Reaction for CCM to have similar passive AC as the Bladesinger/Valor Bard.
All 3 variants can then cast Shield for an additional +5 to AC (for Duskblade assuming you can pay to remove the Reaction cost from CCM).
The Duskblade would get up to 23 AC at the cost of 2 Sorc Points and a 1st lvl spell slot. That doesn't seem amazing in my eyes when the Bladesinger is at 24-26 at the cost of 1 use of Bladesong (that lasts 1 minute), 1x 1st lvl spell slot for Mage Armor (per Long Rest), and 1x 1st lvl spell slot for Shield - and thereafter just 1x 1st lvl spell slot for Shield.
To acquire other Armor Training would require Multiclassing/Feats and that is a cost AND it is just as readily available to the caster build as it is the gish build. Still you don't see many Fullcasters multiclass Fighter to get Heavy/Medium Armor + Shield.
Even if we had a 1 Fighter / 3+ Sorc: Duskblade, the AC situation for a Medium Armor would be 15 + 2 DEX + 1 FS:D + 3 CCM for 21 at the cost of 1 Sorc Point (assuming we want to use our BA for the lvl 6 feature down the line). Add +5 with Shield with 1 more Sorc Point + 1x 1st lvl spell slot.
I think you're being too cautious not to approach the perceived issues with the Hexblade 2014 to make a functional defense situation for a gish build that doesn't hamper their subclass features and actually end up hurting the gish build more than a caster build.
I wholeheartedly agree that to make a better gish fantasy, a dedicated class would be a lot better. The issue with the gish fantasy in the current situation is trying to push a Martial play pattern over a Caster foundation or to push Caster features over a Martial foundation.
I fear that half-casters were the attempt at making a hybrid character, but they both fail in incorporating martial and caster features in the same ground-work or rather within the same Action Economy as the Full Martial/Caster classes. More often than not the half caster feels like choosing between a semi-proficient Martial or a poor Spellcaster. You said it pretty well before that the ideal for a gish is a gestalt character, the collective have to be better than the sum of the pieces.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't think Paladin nor Ranger are bad classes... well the Ranger still feels a bit iffy, mostly due to Hunter's Mark. The Paladin is also basically a Tank Martial that have a few magical features and they are assisted heavily by the power of their Aura of Protection to stand out.