Also, I have a question. If you use Returning Weapon on a net, will you drag the creature that's in the net back to you? Returning Weapon seems really impractical with a net otherwise, because it doesn't do anything if the weapon just teleports back to you-- then the creature is freed.
No, a Net of Returning Just returns the net to the users, if it dragged the creature it would say so. And yes, a Net of Returning would be impractical, not all infusions would work for all weapons.
What I would have preferred to see in this class is:
Remove the subclasses entirely and replace infusions with inventions.The artificer would have a certain number of invention points and a max # of inventions that scales with level.
Vastly expand the list of inventions ("infusions") and categorize them... construct, infusions (enchanting weapons, armor, magic items), augmentation (bodily upgrades), alchemy
As the artificer levels up, they can spend invention points to create new inventions or to upgrade existing inventions. Level restrictions for certain inventions/upgrades.
When the artificer levels up, they can scrap an existing invention and reinvest the invention points into another invention.
Want a strong mechanical construct? You can do that.
Want to upgrade your body and be a front line fighter? You can do that.
Want to create magic items to upgrade the party? You can do that.
Want to concoct chemical warfare or healing? You can do that.
You shouldn't have a class without subclasses. It's just not a viable possibility.
Mmm, I think it *is* possible, but I don't think it'd be a good idea for WotC to go down that route since they've established subclasses as a normal part of progression.
Keith Baker has just posted his own thoughts on the Artificer class. Among them, he states that this version of the class was designed with the Eberron setting in mind, which I'm rather glad of. I want to read his article and all of your posts a few times before I form any opinions, and if you want to do the same, here's a link.
Sometimes I wonder about my love for ‘unique’ characters. Does wanting to play a Female Human Vampire Bard with a guitar make me a ‘special snowflake’? >;P
I like the new Artificer and cannot wait till its in the character builder but I am willing to wait as it is worth it. The Alchemist looks like a great support role, able to heal and do some damage. The weapon infusions look fun all depending if you have a Dex or Str build the enhanced weapon would rock the Dex build for a crossbow, and Returning weapon on a handaxe for a Str build. The armors allowed really add to the survivability of the character and a good point for like a heavy duty work clothes theme. Just say they are like a heavy leather apron that protects as good as studded leather and weighs the same, or even a scale covered suit to protect the user for Scalmail. Just work the appearance of the armor to fit your character, this leaves a lot to define the character based on the imagination of the player. Imagine the Alchemist that his little buddy is a mechanical broach that is worn on his cloak that can detach if needed to assist in combat in some way. There is so much that can be done to make the character unique with this class and the subclasses. Or the other subclass the Altererist that his wand he makes at level 6 looks like a small flintlock handgun worn in a holster on his hip.
What I would have preferred to see in this class is:
Remove the subclasses entirely and replace infusions with inventions.The artificer would have a certain number of invention points and a max # of inventions that scales with level.
Vastly expand the list of inventions ("infusions") and categorize them... construct, infusions (enchanting weapons, armor, magic items), augmentation (bodily upgrades), alchemy
As the artificer levels up, they can spend invention points to create new inventions or to upgrade existing inventions. Level restrictions for certain inventions/upgrades.
When the artificer levels up, they can scrap an existing invention and reinvest the invention points into another invention.
Want a strong mechanical construct? You can do that.
Want to upgrade your body and be a front line fighter? You can do that.
Want to create magic items to upgrade the party? You can do that.
Want to concoct chemical warfare or healing? You can do that.
You shouldn't have a class without subclasses. It's just not a viable possibility.
Mmm, I think it *is* possible, but I don't think it'd be a good idea for WotC to go down that route since they've established subclasses as a normal part of progression.
I also think not having subclasses can hinder future growth and development of the class as one of the major updates they can do to a class is add more subclasses.
what happens if a many handed pouch is placed inside a replicated bag of holding? would all the many handed pouches explode and make a spatial rift? seems like an interesting idea have a construct or familiar place one inside the other after tossing a bag at the big bad. honestly i want to try tying a replicated bag of holding to the tip of an arrow and firing it in front of the toughest enemy. when it hits the ground the arrow pierces the bag dragging everything within 10 ft into astral plane. and since the infusions can be done after long rest it seems really abusable
The other thing that is awesome is the infusions do not have to be just for you. Meaning you can enhance your barbarian's greatsword, or put returning on your rogues daggers. The Artificer can easily play a support class.
what happens if a many handed pouch is placed inside a replicated bag of holding? would all the many handed pouches explode and make a spatial rift? seems like an interesting idea have a construct or familiar place one inside the other after tossing a bag at the big bad. honestly i want to try tying a replicated bag of holding to the tip of an arrow and firing it in front of the toughest enemy. when it hits the ground the arrow pierces the bag dragging everything within 10 ft into astral plane. and since the infusions can be done after long rest it seems really abusable
Rupturing a bag of holding does not drag everything within 10 ft of it into the astral plane, it only causes all it's contents to explode forth. What you are thinking of is placing a bag of holding into an extra dimensional space.
Additionally, Many Handed Pockets are interdimensional space. The interior of the pouch is not bigger than the exterior, just shared with 2-5 other pouches. I'd rule no one could access that pouch if it is placed in a Portable hole or Bag of Holding, since it is not on the same plane as the other pouches.
correct i didn't read carefully on the piercing vs being put in stuff. and honestly didn't even think about a difference between interdimensional and extradimensional. thanks
correct i didn't read carefully on the piercing vs being put in stuff. and honestly didn't even think about a difference between interdimensional and extradimensional. thanks
Though it does have some interesting ramifications. The fact this imitation bag of holding is worthless and easily replaceable means you can use the fact that tearing it causes all content to dump out be an actual weapon.
Fill it with 500 lbs of rocks and sand, hang it over an ambush spot and pearce the bag. Instant rock trap!
or two artificers each making a bag of holding and use mage hands to put one in the other near the bad guys
You don't really need two artificers for that, since a single artificer could create two bag of holdings. You'd have to just have two people that have mag hand...
That being said, as I GM I'd probably not allow it with just two mage hands. I'd probably require 3 mage hands, 1 to hold the bag that will be placed inside the other bag of holding, a second to hold the other bag, and a third mage hand to actually articulate the flap to keep it open. Have to tried putting a bag within a bag with just two hands? It can actually be quiet difficult, lol.
one would ball the bag it is carrying up and just fly into the other bag that s hanging a bit. and if you want to use cheap replaceable bag of holding you need two artificer as the replicate infusion says you need to pick a different item each time you select it and each infusion can only be in one item at a time
question how do you think Alchemical Mastery works with arcane weapon spell assuming you picked acid dmg? to me it sounds like you would cast the spell (arcane weapon) and at anytime within the spells duration you did acid dmg you could tack on the int dmg BUT only once; then you would need to recast the spell? or is it more like if its not a spell that automatically does dmg then it doesn't even work.
question how do you think Alchemical Mastery works with arcane weapon spell assuming you picked acid dmg? to me it sounds like you would cast the spell (arcane weapon) and at anytime within the spells duration you did acid dmg you could tack on the int dmg BUT only once; then you would need to recast the spell? or is it more like if its not a spell that automatically does dmg then it doesn't even work.
That spell lasts an hour the caster picks the damage type from the list and every attack made with the weapon if it hits does an 1d6 damage of the chosen type. If the caster loses concentration the spell stops working. Now how it looks is pretty much up to the PC describing it for how it works for the character.
question how do you think Alchemical Mastery works with arcane weapon spell assuming you picked acid dmg? to me it sounds like you would cast the spell (arcane weapon) and at anytime within the spells duration you did acid dmg you could tack on the int dmg BUT only once; then you would need to recast the spell? or is it more like if its not a spell that automatically does dmg then it doesn't even work.
That spell lasts an hour the caster picks the damage type from the list and every attack made with the weapon if it hits does an 1d6 damage of the chosen type. If the caster loses concentration the spell stops working. Now how it looks is pretty much up to the PC describing it for how it works for the character.
i feel you may have miss interpreted my question i will try to elaborate. im specifically asking about the interaction between"(Alchemical Mastery At 6th level, your command of magical chemicals has become masterful, enhancing the healing and damage you create through them. When you cast a spell using your alchemist’s supplies as the spellcasting focus, you gain a bonus to one roll of the spell. That roll must restore hit points or be a damage roll that deals acid or poison damage, and the bonus equals your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1))" and arcane weapon; and how if at all it would work.
I read the Keith Baker piece. While I appreciate his thoughts on the subject, I'm afraid it just doesn't sell it for me, especially when it comes to the Alchemist. While I can see the rest of the base class and the Artillarist subclass needing only a little tweaking, with the Alchemist subclass all I can do is look at it and think "Thanks...I hate it."
I'm trying to compile my thoughts on a separate document so I can look at them to see which ones are fair criticisms and which ones are just me griping, but I will be giving my thoughts out on the survey, and this will be the first time I've been actively looking to see when the survey comes out.
question how do you think Alchemical Mastery works with arcane weapon spell assuming you picked acid dmg? to me it sounds like you would cast the spell (arcane weapon) and at anytime within the spells duration you did acid dmg you could tack on the int dmg BUT only once; then you would need to recast the spell? or is it more like if its not a spell that automatically does dmg then it doesn't even work.
That spell lasts an hour the caster picks the damage type from the list and every attack made with the weapon if it hits does an 1d6 damage of the chosen type. If the caster loses concentration the spell stops working. Now how it looks is pretty much up to the PC describing it for how it works for the character.
i feel you may have miss interpreted my question i will try to elaborate. im specifically asking about the interaction between"(Alchemical Mastery At 6th level, your command of magical chemicals has become masterful, enhancing the healing and damage you create through them. When you cast a spell using your alchemist’s supplies as the spellcasting focus, you gain a bonus to one roll of the spell. That roll must restore hit points or be a damage roll that deals acid or poison damage, and the bonus equals your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1))" and arcane weapon; and how if at all it would work.
In a case such as this I would say it doesn't add to damage and if it did it would apply to only the 1st person hit by the weapon since the level 6 subclass feature states you get bonus damage to 1 rooll of the damage.
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No, a Net of Returning Just returns the net to the users, if it dragged the creature it would say so. And yes, a Net of Returning would be impractical, not all infusions would work for all weapons.
Mmm, I think it *is* possible, but I don't think it'd be a good idea for WotC to go down that route since they've established subclasses as a normal part of progression.
Keith Baker has just posted his own thoughts on the Artificer class. Among them, he states that this version of the class was designed with the Eberron setting in mind, which I'm rather glad of. I want to read his article and all of your posts a few times before I form any opinions, and if you want to do the same, here's a link.
http://keith-baker.com/dm-artificer/
Hope it helps. Later, adventurers.
Sometimes I wonder about my love for ‘unique’ characters. Does wanting to play a Female Human Vampire Bard with a guitar make me a ‘special snowflake’? >;P
I like the new Artificer and cannot wait till its in the character builder but I am willing to wait as it is worth it. The Alchemist looks like a great support role, able to heal and do some damage. The weapon infusions look fun all depending if you have a Dex or Str build the enhanced weapon would rock the Dex build for a crossbow, and Returning weapon on a handaxe for a Str build. The armors allowed really add to the survivability of the character and a good point for like a heavy duty work clothes theme. Just say they are like a heavy leather apron that protects as good as studded leather and weighs the same, or even a scale covered suit to protect the user for Scalmail. Just work the appearance of the armor to fit your character, this leaves a lot to define the character based on the imagination of the player. Imagine the Alchemist that his little buddy is a mechanical broach that is worn on his cloak that can detach if needed to assist in combat in some way. There is so much that can be done to make the character unique with this class and the subclasses. Or the other subclass the Altererist that his wand he makes at level 6 looks like a small flintlock handgun worn in a holster on his hip.
I also think not having subclasses can hinder future growth and development of the class as one of the major updates they can do to a class is add more subclasses.
what happens if a many handed pouch is placed inside a replicated bag of holding? would all the many handed pouches explode and make a spatial rift? seems like an interesting idea have a construct or familiar place one inside the other after tossing a bag at the big bad. honestly i want to try tying a replicated bag of holding to the tip of an arrow and firing it in front of the toughest enemy. when it hits the ground the arrow pierces the bag dragging everything within 10 ft into astral plane. and since the infusions can be done after long rest it seems really abusable
The other thing that is awesome is the infusions do not have to be just for you. Meaning you can enhance your barbarian's greatsword, or put returning on your rogues daggers. The Artificer can easily play a support class.
Rupturing a bag of holding does not drag everything within 10 ft of it into the astral plane, it only causes all it's contents to explode forth. What you are thinking of is placing a bag of holding into an extra dimensional space.
Additionally, Many Handed Pockets are interdimensional space. The interior of the pouch is not bigger than the exterior, just shared with 2-5 other pouches. I'd rule no one could access that pouch if it is placed in a Portable hole or Bag of Holding, since it is not on the same plane as the other pouches.
correct i didn't read carefully on the piercing vs being put in stuff. and honestly didn't even think about a difference between interdimensional and extradimensional. thanks
Though it does have some interesting ramifications. The fact this imitation bag of holding is worthless and easily replaceable means you can use the fact that tearing it causes all content to dump out be an actual weapon.
Fill it with 500 lbs of rocks and sand, hang it over an ambush spot and pearce the bag. Instant rock trap!
or two artificers each making a bag of holding and use mage hands to put one in the other near the bad guys
You don't really need two artificers for that, since a single artificer could create two bag of holdings. You'd have to just have two people that have mag hand...
That being said, as I GM I'd probably not allow it with just two mage hands. I'd probably require 3 mage hands, 1 to hold the bag that will be placed inside the other bag of holding, a second to hold the other bag, and a third mage hand to actually articulate the flap to keep it open. Have to tried putting a bag within a bag with just two hands? It can actually be quiet difficult, lol.
one would ball the bag it is carrying up and just fly into the other bag that s hanging a bit. and if you want to use cheap replaceable bag of holding you need two artificer as the replicate infusion says you need to pick a different item each time you select it and each infusion can only be in one item at a time
question how do you think Alchemical Mastery works with arcane weapon spell assuming you picked acid dmg? to me it sounds like you would cast the spell (arcane weapon) and at anytime within the spells duration you did acid dmg you could tack on the int dmg BUT only once; then you would need to recast the spell? or is it more like if its not a spell that automatically does dmg then it doesn't even work.
That spell lasts an hour the caster picks the damage type from the list and every attack made with the weapon if it hits does an 1d6 damage of the chosen type. If the caster loses concentration the spell stops working. Now how it looks is pretty much up to the PC describing it for how it works for the character.
i feel you may have miss interpreted my question i will try to elaborate. im specifically asking about the interaction between"(Alchemical Mastery At 6th level, your command of magical chemicals has become masterful, enhancing the healing and damage you create through them. When you cast a spell using your alchemist’s supplies as the spellcasting focus, you gain a bonus to one roll of the spell. That roll must restore hit points or be a damage roll that deals acid or poison damage, and the bonus equals your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1))" and arcane weapon; and how if at all it would work.
The Keith Bakers thoughts on the class is interesting.
Loex - A Lizardfolk Lvl 4/7/4 Hexblade Profane Blood Hunter/ Battlesmith Artificer/ Cleric of the Forge
Arborea - A Warforged Lvl 5 Hexblade Warlock
Archive - A Autognome Lvl 3 Old One Warlock
ER15 - A Autognome Lvl 7 Binder Warlock
DM - "Malign Intelligence"
Any chance of a link or a quote?
Edit - meh, I am a muppet. Should have read the entire thread rather than just the latest post. Sorry ak318!
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I read the Keith Baker piece. While I appreciate his thoughts on the subject, I'm afraid it just doesn't sell it for me, especially when it comes to the Alchemist. While I can see the rest of the base class and the Artillarist subclass needing only a little tweaking, with the Alchemist subclass all I can do is look at it and think "Thanks...I hate it."
I'm trying to compile my thoughts on a separate document so I can look at them to see which ones are fair criticisms and which ones are just me griping, but I will be giving my thoughts out on the survey, and this will be the first time I've been actively looking to see when the survey comes out.
In a case such as this I would say it doesn't add to damage and if it did it would apply to only the 1st person hit by the weapon since the level 6 subclass feature states you get bonus damage to 1 rooll of the damage.