i still just overall don't like lvl 1 subclasses. to me it also encourages 1 lvl dips in classes because it gives you too much for 1 level. they limit what you get from the base class when multiclassing but then if the class has subclasses at lvl1 it makes those classes far better for 1 lvl dips
I wonder if it is intentional for a Turret to be immune to most spells? The turret is a Magical Object, not a creature, and most offensive spells actually only affect creatures. Even Shatter doesn't affect the Turret since it specifically calls out nonmagical objects and the Turret is a magical object.
But that's a good sign. If we ache for a pile of subclasses when we see playtest material, we're off to a good start.
I agree, though having 2 subclasses at initial release puts it on par with literally every other class's initial release with the exception of wizards.
But that's a good sign. If we ache for a pile of subclasses when we see playtest material, we're off to a good start.
I agree, though having 2 subclasses at initial release puts it on par with literally every other class's initial release with the exception of wizards.
Didn't clerics get more than one subclass in the PHB?
Remember another UA for artifice comes out this month. Also based off of Jeremy Crawfords statement yesterday gunsmith will not returns cause too many people shouted at wizards no guns in their D&D.
I agree, though having 2 subclasses at initial release puts it on par with literally every other class's initial release with the exception of wizards.
Didn't clerics get more than one subclass in the PHB?
You are correct, so 9 out of 12 classes (Monk also had 3) only had 2 subclasses.
The artillerist seems like it is straight out of Ebberon.
If we wanted a projectile specialist, we should think of projectile inventors and how they would improve that. Practical combat inventors is what this class should be called. That being said, the arcane archer feeling of play could be retooled as an artificer
Please. These please. I mean, I’ve been playing the 2017 Atificer since early 2018, very boringly and I LOVE the update, but THESE get me excited. The Gourmand and the Transmuter (like the Simic) are getting me very excited.
Really love the concept of artisan's tools as magical foci. So many potentialities! Fingers crossed we get SOMETHING out of my list... otherwise I'll start concocting that Gourmand on DnDBeyond.
The artillerist seems like it is straight out of Ebberon.
If we wanted a projectile specialist, we should think of projectile inventors and how they would improve that. Practical combat inventors is what this class should be called. That being said, the arcane archer feeling of play could be retooled as an artificer
Could you point me to some Ebberon lore or a book with artificers with wands and turrets. (Never read Ebberon or played in earlier editions just tried to google since your message)
I know wands are the blasty guns of Ebberron but does it also have such a tight connection to the turret?
I agree, though having 2 subclasses at initial release puts it on par with literally every other class's initial release with the exception of wizards.
Didn't clerics get more than one subclass in the PHB?
You are correct, so 9 out of 12 classes (Monk also had 3) only had 2 subclasses.
Don't forget that Fighter, Paladin, Warlock, and Rogue also had 3. So it's 5 classes out of 12 that started with 2 subclasses. Less than half.
More importantly, this is an entirely new class that is up for playtest. Having more than 2 subclasses is actively bad because it makes it harder to get a read on the class as a whole. There will be more later down to road when the skeleton is more solid, so talking in circles about how there should be more subclasses is irrelevant.
More importantly, this is an entirely new class that is up for playtest. Having more than 2 subclasses is actively bad because it makes it harder to get a read on the class as a whole. There will be more later down to road when the skeleton is more solid, so talking in circles about how there should be more subclasses is irrelevant.
I wouldn’t say that it’s “actively bad.” We understand that the class is being worked on and anything in the future shouldn’t be anchored to how the class is presented now. There are two main conversations circling subclasses and they are both actively good for the discussion of the class as a whole.
1. People coming up with subclass ideas: While this class as it exists now is likely to change, the fact that people can envision subclasses that go with it is beneficial. It shows Wizards that the class is sparking people’s imagination and points to a good idea of the class’s identity if not specific mechanics.
2. The number of subclasses that should come with the official release: an earnest conversation of what we should expect. Some classes had 2 subclasses in release, some had 3, a few had more. But this is the first class to be released outside of the PHB. When an official release comes, should Wizards give the class more subclasses in order to “catch up” to the others? Or should it start with 2-3 and grow overtime?
Should we have more subclasses to playtest right now? No. Like you said, figure the base class first and add more later. But talking about subclasses isn’t an active detriment to the conversation.
it should be said (again) that more content is coming for the artificer, it states that right on the ua page my guess it this is what they had ready maybe its more sub-classes; or it could be class specific items/spells/or some fourth other thing. but more then likely i would hazard a guess at atleast one more sub class in the works.
I wonder if it is intentional for a Turret to be immune to most spells? The turret is a Magical Object, not a creature, and most offensive spells actually only affect creatures. Even Shatter doesn't affect the Turret since it specifically calls out nonmagical objects and the Turret is a magical object.
I think that could potentially be a very glaring oversight. It would be a good idea to bring that question up when the survey comes out.
it should be said (again) that more content is coming for the artificer, it states that right on the ua page my guess it this is what they had ready maybe its more sub-classes; or it could be class specific items/spells/or some fourth other thing. but more then likely i would hazard a guess at atleast one more sub class in the works.
They have definitely said it would at least be an expanded spell list that includes spells from Xanathar's guide to everything. Personally here are various Sword Coast Adventure's Guide / Xanathar's spells I'd think would be cool for an Artificer:
Booming Blade: I think it would be fun describing the technological contraption required to coat your blade with a sheet of thunderous energy.
Word of Radiance: Similar to Shield of Faith, I'd love to flavor this as some sort of radiant explosion triggered by some sort of phosphorescent flash grenade.
Thunder Step: Though it is a teleportation spell, it would be neat to flavor it as an explosive jetpack of sorts that haphazardly launches you up to 90 feet away, leaving behind a cacophony of thunder.
Skill Empowerment: I don't think it is a great spell in general, but I think it is a flavorful spell for an Artificer, being able to augment other peoples already good skills.
i still just overall don't like lvl 1 subclasses. to me it also encourages 1 lvl dips in classes because it gives you too much for 1 level. they limit what you get from the base class when multiclassing but then if the class has subclasses at lvl1 it makes those classes far better for 1 lvl dips
God I wish there were more subclasses for it
I wonder if it is intentional for a Turret to be immune to most spells? The turret is a Magical Object, not a creature, and most offensive spells actually only affect creatures. Even Shatter doesn't affect the Turret since it specifically calls out nonmagical objects and the Turret is a magical object.
So does Keith Baker. You're in good company.
But that's a good sign. If we ache for a pile of subclasses when we see playtest material, we're off to a good start.
I agree, though having 2 subclasses at initial release puts it on par with literally every other class's initial release with the exception of wizards.
Didn't clerics get more than one subclass in the PHB?
Remember another UA for artifice comes out this month. Also based off of Jeremy Crawfords statement yesterday gunsmith will not returns cause too many people shouted at wizards no guns in their D&D.
Loex - A Lizardfolk Lvl 4/7/4 Hexblade Profane Blood Hunter/ Battlesmith Artificer/ Cleric of the Forge
Arborea - A Warforged Lvl 5 Hexblade Warlock
Archive - A Autognome Lvl 3 Old One Warlock
ER15 - A Autognome Lvl 7 Binder Warlock
DM - "Malign Intelligence"
If I was them I’d retool it into a blaster class specialised in Wands, which subtly at the end says you can replace the wands with guns.
Same as I think the artillerist should focus cross bows with option to replace with guns.
You are correct, so 9 out of 12 classes (Monk also had 3) only had 2 subclasses.
Oh also from Jeremy one of the upcoming Artificer UAs will also included an expanded spell list for listing what spells in xanathars they can use.
Loex - A Lizardfolk Lvl 4/7/4 Hexblade Profane Blood Hunter/ Battlesmith Artificer/ Cleric of the Forge
Arborea - A Warforged Lvl 5 Hexblade Warlock
Archive - A Autognome Lvl 3 Old One Warlock
ER15 - A Autognome Lvl 7 Binder Warlock
DM - "Malign Intelligence"
The artillerist seems like it is straight out of Ebberon.
If we wanted a projectile specialist, we should think of projectile inventors and how they would improve that. Practical combat inventors is what this class should be called. That being said, the arcane archer feeling of play could be retooled as an artificer
Really love the concept of artisan's tools as magical foci. So many potentialities! Fingers crossed we get SOMETHING out of my list... otherwise I'll start concocting that Gourmand on DnDBeyond.
Could you point me to some Ebberon lore or a book with artificers with wands and turrets. (Never read Ebberon or played in earlier editions just tried to google since your message)
I know wands are the blasty guns of Ebberron but does it also have such a tight connection to the turret?
Don't forget that Fighter, Paladin, Warlock, and Rogue also had 3. So it's 5 classes out of 12 that started with 2 subclasses. Less than half.
More importantly, this is an entirely new class that is up for playtest. Having more than 2 subclasses is actively bad because it makes it harder to get a read on the class as a whole. There will be more later down to road when the skeleton is more solid, so talking in circles about how there should be more subclasses is irrelevant.
Gah, yea. still 5 / 12 does mean it wouldn't be unheard of for the Artificer to be released with only 2 subclasses.
I wouldn’t say that it’s “actively bad.” We understand that the class is being worked on and anything in the future shouldn’t be anchored to how the class is presented now. There are two main conversations circling subclasses and they are both actively good for the discussion of the class as a whole.
1. People coming up with subclass ideas: While this class as it exists now is likely to change, the fact that people can envision subclasses that go with it is beneficial. It shows Wizards that the class is sparking people’s imagination and points to a good idea of the class’s identity if not specific mechanics.
2. The number of subclasses that should come with the official release: an earnest conversation of what we should expect. Some classes had 2 subclasses in release, some had 3, a few had more. But this is the first class to be released outside of the PHB. When an official release comes, should Wizards give the class more subclasses in order to “catch up” to the others? Or should it start with 2-3 and grow overtime?
Should we have more subclasses to playtest right now? No. Like you said, figure the base class first and add more later. But talking about subclasses isn’t an active detriment to the conversation.
Edit: Horrendous spelling mistakes
it should be said (again) that more content is coming for the artificer, it states that right on the ua page my guess it this is what they had ready maybe its more sub-classes; or it could be class specific items/spells/or some fourth other thing. but more then likely i would hazard a guess at atleast one more sub class in the works.
I think that could potentially be a very glaring oversight. It would be a good idea to bring that question up when the survey comes out.
They have definitely said it would at least be an expanded spell list that includes spells from Xanathar's guide to everything. Personally here are various Sword Coast Adventure's Guide / Xanathar's spells I'd think would be cool for an Artificer: