By the time an Astral Self monk can make that many attacks, their Martial Arts die exceeds the d8 granted by two-fisting Unarmed Fighting Style. Remember that two-fisting Fistpunch Style means no grapple; once you grapple you're down to a d6 again since you can no longer attack with two free hands.
Astral Selves really don't care about this, nor does any monk that's looking to be even remotely serious about unarmed fighting.
It'd sure be nice if you could just make whatever cool thing you wanted without stressing over combat optimization.
Which is funny, because there's really no reason you can't just build for the math and then reskin it however you want. If you could convince the table to allow it. Good luck with that.
Alternatively, I guess you could just play a different game. If you could get the other players on board. Good luck with that, too.
But it'd be nice to just come up with a dope idea and not have to do backflips to make it workable.
it would be nice. But people also like to dump unfairly on the combat optimizers, call them nasty names and blame them for All The Ills Of The Game when all they're really trying to do is use the tools they were given to do well at the game placed in front of them.
I've allowed people to use the rules for a club as a 'loaded fist', i.e. palm a dowel to reinforce your monkey paw while still effectively fighting unarmed. This new fighting style actually holds up pretty decently damage-wise. It doesn't measure up to a +3 Holy Revenger, but one could argue that an option you can take at 1st level and which you can use while bare-assed nekkid in a dungeon should maybe not hold up to the power of a legendary-level Super Magical Ultra Sword.
Wow, this thread is still going.... I haven't even read half of the comments after it got past page one, I've pretty much felt that the Fighting Style itself is rather lackluster in long term.
Me, personally, I would just opt to make Gauntlets or some other Fist Type weapon and use the Vercitlity Damage die from the basic Martial Weapons (1d10) This opens up Magic Weapons, buffing with spells that specifically target weapons and could be homebrewed/house ruled that grappling would still be possible.
Level 20 Astral Monk can make up to 6 or 7 attacks I believe.
6. But what does that have to do with anything?
Monks don't get fighting styles, and if they multiclassed this one would get less good as they leveled up.
Massively power-gamery, but being as we're talking UA and it's only theoretical, if you could combine the new UA ranger features with the spell-less ranger it would make a brutal dip for astral monk.
The unarmed fighting style for an early level damage boost plus extra damage when grappling, expertise for athletics, the concentration-less hunter mark and access to battlemaster manouvers for disarming and restraining strike. The astral monk gives you the high volume of attacks as well as letting you use wisdom for grappling. Also as some have noted when the Monks damage die reaches d8 you don't need to worry about the die size dropping when one of your hands is full.
A similar thing could be achieved with battlemaster, the downside is that if the character made it to level 20 it would miss out on empty body for resistance's and have to use an asi for prodigy or brawny feat.
Again definitely taking liberties and I don't think many dm's would let it fly, but would offer a different "ground n pound" playstyle from most Monks.
Level 20 Astral Monk can make up to 6 or 7 attacks I believe.
6. But what does that have to do with anything?
Monks don't get fighting styles, and if they multiclassed this one would get less good as they leveled up.
Massively power-gamery, but being as we're talking UA and it's only theoretical, if you could combine the new UA ranger features with the spell-less ranger it would make a brutal dip for astral monk.
The unarmed fighting style for an early level damage boost plus extra damage when grappling, expertise for athletics, the concentration-less hunter mark and access to battlemaster manouvers for disarming and restraining strike. The astral monk gives you the high volume of attacks as well as letting you use wisdom for grappling. Also as some have noted when the Monks damage die reaches d8 you don't need to worry about the die size dropping when one of your hands is full.
A similar thing could be achieved with battlemaster, the downside is that if the character made it to level 20 it would miss out on empty body for resistance's and have to use an asi for prodigy or brawny feat.
Again definitely taking liberties and I don't think many dm's would let it fly, but would offer a different "ground n pound" playstyle from most Monks.
The first time I thought of the ranger dip for a monk, I immediately thought of all those depictions of the martial artist meditating under a waterfall.
Side bar, but I really think people are overvaluing the number of attacks the Astral Monk gets. It's cool, don't get me wrong, but when I read that class I thought of it more like "Oh, they are giving something to offset the attack cost of doing the grapples." since to me, the wisdom based 10ft range grapple is the star attraction.
Massively power-gamery, but being as we're talking UA and it's only theoretical, if you could combine the new UA ranger features with the spell-less ranger it would make a brutal dip for astral monk.
The unarmed fighting style for an early level damage boost plus extra damage when grappling, expertise for athletics, the concentration-less hunter mark and access to battlemaster manouvers for disarming and restraining strike. The astral monk gives you the high volume of attacks as well as letting you use wisdom for grappling. Also as some have noted when the Monks damage die reaches d8 you don't need to worry about the die size dropping when one of your hands is full.
A similar thing could be achieved with battlemaster, the downside is that if the character made it to level 20 it would miss out on empty body for resistance's and have to use an asi for prodigy or brawny feat.
Again definitely taking liberties and I don't think many dm's would let it fly, but would offer a different "ground n pound" playstyle from most Monks.
Spell-less Ranger? Ahh, I found it. Most of the new UA Class Feature Variants for Ranger have to do with their Spellcasting, how would that help a Spell-less Ranger? Or did you mean the Swarmkeeper? For a dip (3 levels or less) neither of those UAs seem to add anything to the Spell-less Ranger that it doesn’t already bring to the table that would add much to the Astral Self. What am I missing?
Massively power-gamery, but being as we're talking UA and it's only theoretical, if you could combine the new UA ranger features with the spell-less ranger it would make a brutal dip for astral monk.
The unarmed fighting style for an early level damage boost plus extra damage when grappling, expertise for athletics, the concentration-less hunter mark and access to battlemaster manouvers for disarming and restraining strike. The astral monk gives you the high volume of attacks as well as letting you use wisdom for grappling. Also as some have noted when the Monks damage die reaches d8 you don't need to worry about the die size dropping when one of your hands is full.
A similar thing could be achieved with battlemaster, the downside is that if the character made it to level 20 it would miss out on empty body for resistance's and have to use an asi for prodigy or brawny feat.
Again definitely taking liberties and I don't think many dm's would let it fly, but would offer a different "ground n pound" playstyle from most Monks.
Spell-less Ranger? Ahh, I found it. Most of the new UA Class Feature Variants for Ranger have to do with their Spellcasting, how would that help a Spell-less Ranger? Or did you mean the Swarmkeeper? For a dip (3 levels or less) neither of those UAs seem to add anything to the Spell-less Ranger that it doesn’t already bring to the table that would add much to the Astral Self. What am I missing?
The new UA class variants for ranger switch the natural explorer and favoured enemy features that the spell-less ranger retains, so it could be argued (but is definitely gaming the system) you could swap them out for the deft explorer (athletics expertise) and favoured foe (can argue its more like a feature than a spell due to not using slots or conc), you would also gain the unarmed fighting style. The biggest pro for the spell-less ranger is that it gets you battlemaster manouvers at level 2 instead of 3, including the new restraining strike which would be a massive boost to grappling.
Massively power-gamery, but being as we're talking UA and it's only theoretical, if you could combine the new UA ranger features with the spell-less ranger it would make a brutal dip for astral monk.
The unarmed fighting style for an early level damage boost plus extra damage when grappling, expertise for athletics, the concentration-less hunter mark and access to battlemaster manouvers for disarming and restraining strike. The astral monk gives you the high volume of attacks as well as letting you use wisdom for grappling. Also as some have noted when the Monks damage die reaches d8 you don't need to worry about the die size dropping when one of your hands is full.
A similar thing could be achieved with battlemaster, the downside is that if the character made it to level 20 it would miss out on empty body for resistance's and have to use an asi for prodigy or brawny feat.
Again definitely taking liberties and I don't think many dm's would let it fly, but would offer a different "ground n pound" playstyle from most Monks.
Spell-less Ranger? Ahh, I found it. Most of the new UA Class Feature Variants for Ranger have to do with their Spellcasting, how would that help a Spell-less Ranger? Or did you mean the Swarmkeeper? For a dip (3 levels or less) neither of those UAs seem to add anything to the Spell-less Ranger that it doesn’t already bring to the table that would add much to the Astral Self. What am I missing?
The new UA class variants for ranger switch the natural explorer and favoured enemy features that the spell-less ranger retains, so it could be argued (but is definitely gaming the system) you could swap them out for the deft explorer (athletics expertise) and favoured foe (can argue its more like a feature than a spell due to not using slots or conc), you would also gain the unarmed fighting style. The biggest pro for the spell-less ranger is that it gets you battlemaster manouvers at level 2 instead of 3, including the new restraining strike which would be a massive boost to grappling.
Are you talking about the "Revised Ranger"? That template's dead & buried.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Maybe it’s already been said, but this unarmed options are the mechanically identical to fighting with a quarter staff. That feels relatively balanced to me.
I, for one, am excited by the multi class possibilities for monk/paladins, monk/fighters etc.
I have seen a lot of people assuming this fighting style only benefits from a strength build, but I’m pretty sure martial arts from monk applies dex to all unarmed strikes. At least that’s how I’d rule it.
Hey, InvaderSte! Looks like we had the same idea. I am also putting together a Rune Knight Brawler- specifically a Warforged, so they can inscribe the runes on their own carapace instead of on equipment.
Let me know how you build yours and we can compare notes!
One thing I'm a little curious about is the line that says "Until the grapple ends, you can also deal this damage (1d4 bludgeoning) to the creature whenever you hit it with a melee attack".
Is this bonus damage in addition to normal melee attack damage? Or is it just a weaker replacement for the normal 1d6+STR punching or weapon damage?
Level 20 Astral Monk can make up to 6 or 7 attacks I believe.
6. But what does that have to do with anything?
Monks don't get fighting styles, and if they multiclassed this one would get less good as they leveled up.
By the time an Astral Self monk can make that many attacks, their Martial Arts die exceeds the d8 granted by two-fisting Unarmed Fighting Style. Remember that two-fisting Fistpunch Style means no grapple; once you grapple you're down to a d6 again since you can no longer attack with two free hands.
Astral Selves really don't care about this, nor does any monk that's looking to be even remotely serious about unarmed fighting.
Please do not contact or message me.
It'd sure be nice if you could just make whatever cool thing you wanted without stressing over combat optimization.
Which is funny, because there's really no reason you can't just build for the math and then reskin it however you want. If you could convince the table to allow it. Good luck with that.
Alternatively, I guess you could just play a different game. If you could get the other players on board. Good luck with that, too.
But it'd be nice to just come up with a dope idea and not have to do backflips to make it workable.
*shrug*
it would be nice. But people also like to dump unfairly on the combat optimizers, call them nasty names and blame them for All The Ills Of The Game when all they're really trying to do is use the tools they were given to do well at the game placed in front of them.
I've allowed people to use the rules for a club as a 'loaded fist', i.e. palm a dowel to reinforce your monkey paw while still effectively fighting unarmed. This new fighting style actually holds up pretty decently damage-wise. It doesn't measure up to a +3 Holy Revenger, but one could argue that an option you can take at 1st level and which you can use while bare-assed nekkid in a dungeon should maybe not hold up to the power of a legendary-level Super Magical Ultra Sword.
Please do not contact or message me.
Wow, this thread is still going.... I haven't even read half of the comments after it got past page one, I've pretty much felt that the Fighting Style itself is rather lackluster in long term.
Me, personally, I would just opt to make Gauntlets or some other Fist Type weapon and use the Vercitlity Damage die from the basic Martial Weapons (1d10) This opens up Magic Weapons, buffing with spells that specifically target weapons and could be homebrewed/house ruled that grappling would still be possible.
Massively power-gamery, but being as we're talking UA and it's only theoretical, if you could combine the new UA ranger features with the spell-less ranger it would make a brutal dip for astral monk.
The unarmed fighting style for an early level damage boost plus extra damage when grappling, expertise for athletics, the concentration-less hunter mark and access to battlemaster manouvers for disarming and restraining strike. The astral monk gives you the high volume of attacks as well as letting you use wisdom for grappling. Also as some have noted when the Monks damage die reaches d8 you don't need to worry about the die size dropping when one of your hands is full.
A similar thing could be achieved with battlemaster, the downside is that if the character made it to level 20 it would miss out on empty body for resistance's and have to use an asi for prodigy or brawny feat.
Again definitely taking liberties and I don't think many dm's would let it fly, but would offer a different "ground n pound" playstyle from most Monks.
The first time I thought of the ranger dip for a monk, I immediately thought of all those depictions of the martial artist meditating under a waterfall.
Side bar, but I really think people are overvaluing the number of attacks the Astral Monk gets. It's cool, don't get me wrong, but when I read that class I thought of it more like "Oh, they are giving something to offset the attack cost of doing the grapples." since to me, the wisdom based 10ft range grapple is the star attraction.
Spell-less Ranger? Ahh, I found it. Most of the new UA Class Feature Variants for Ranger have to do with their Spellcasting, how would that help a Spell-less Ranger? Or did you mean the Swarmkeeper? For a dip (3 levels or less) neither of those UAs seem to add anything to the Spell-less Ranger that it doesn’t already bring to the table that would add much to the Astral Self. What am I missing?
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The new UA class variants for ranger switch the natural explorer and favoured enemy features that the spell-less ranger retains, so it could be argued (but is definitely gaming the system) you could swap them out for the deft explorer (athletics expertise) and favoured foe (can argue its more like a feature than a spell due to not using slots or conc), you would also gain the unarmed fighting style. The biggest pro for the spell-less ranger is that it gets you battlemaster manouvers at level 2 instead of 3, including the new restraining strike which would be a massive boost to grappling.
Are you talking about the "Revised Ranger"? That template's dead & buried.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
No, it's a suggested modification from an article years back https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/modifying-classes
It's not a realistic build, but this is UA so figured it is relevant and would be an interesting build to play.
Not revised ranger, but just as "dead & buried."
After a bit of digging I found the source UA: https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/modifying-classes
[Edit]Damn. Should have refreshed the page first...
Maybe it’s already been said, but this unarmed options are the mechanically identical to fighting with a quarter staff. That feels relatively balanced to me.
I, for one, am excited by the multi class possibilities for monk/paladins, monk/fighters etc.
I have seen a lot of people assuming this fighting style only benefits from a strength build, but I’m pretty sure martial arts from monk applies dex to all unarmed strikes. At least that’s how I’d rule it.
Does anyone have a link to the UA? I can't seem to find and am looking into playing a fist fighting rune knight.
I didn't, so I googled "unearthed arcana" and clicked the first result.
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/class-feature-variants
There you go. Took longer to type this comment than to find the link.
Thank you, clearly I was being too specific in my searches of fist fighting and unarmed fighting style!
Hey, InvaderSte! Looks like we had the same idea. I am also putting together a Rune Knight Brawler- specifically a Warforged, so they can inscribe the runes on their own carapace instead of on equipment.
Let me know how you build yours and we can compare notes!
One thing I'm a little curious about is the line that says "Until the grapple ends, you can also deal this damage (1d4 bludgeoning) to the creature whenever you hit it with a melee attack".
Is this bonus damage in addition to normal melee attack damage? Or is it just a weaker replacement for the normal 1d6+STR punching or weapon damage?
What am I missing?
It’s a bonus, so your total comes to 1d6+STR+1d4
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting