The next character I plan to play is a Paladin who worked with a group of bounty hunters that went kinda robin hood, including have an assumed identity.
They realized a number of the bounties they took in were people just trying to survive while greedy nobles grew fat off of corruption. So they infiltrated high society and pulled multiple cons on suspected corrupt nobles, my PC used their charisma and looks to get into the houses of nobles before robbing them blind. Of course not all the money the bounty hunters stole went to charities but the majority did.
Eventually this character fled before their identity was discovered and their family endangered, after a few of the other bounty hunters were caught/executed. On their travels, working with various groups of adventurers, they came across a lot of new things and found a deep respect of life in both nature and civilization that didn't exist before, before eventually swearing an oath and taking up an ancient cause.
But yeah, generally it's rare to find a PC who doesn't commit at least one crime during a campaign!
one of my favorite criminals was the changeling face thief. She was a sorcerer who went around, taking on the personas of people she found interesting, and framing them for crimes and stuff, partially because she bloody could, and partially because she got to keep the stuff she stole during the framing for herself.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Because when a mage is a criminal they tend to be written as disasters or just evil because raising the dead is more of a crime (in some places) just just killing someone.
Criminals take imagination to break from the stereotype. The PHB describes criminal backgrounds as more than just murder and stealing, but it doesn't go into too much detail. I surmise it's because there's too much to cover beyond stealing. The table in the PHB is not stated to be the only options.
Beyond thieving, killing, blackmail, and smuggling, there's also extortion and fraud such as fraudulent trading, embezzling, tax evasion... anything that makes someone have a desire to hide from law enforcing people or from opposing criminal factions (or both just to be clear).
Even the ones in the PHB can have variances. Blackmail has different phases and one could be an investigator to dig up dirt, the courier to deliver threats or collect payments, the one who orchestrated the whole thing... It could simply be someone who stumbled upon an important person's dirty laundry and took to blackmailing said person.
...but one must widen their perception of criminal activities.
These varied activities can be better suited to other classes than Rogue. A fighter or a damage dealing mage could be better for extortion. Anyone could do fraudulent trading. A rogue might be too conspicuous for embezzling.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Part of the problem is that the Criminal Background gives you Deception, Stealth, and a choice of Gaming Set or Thieves Tools. The only thing a Non Rogue Criminal type wants is the Feature, Criminal Contact.
If they made a Criminal Caster or Criminal Thug, with abilities like:
Criminal Mage: Perception, Arcana, Alchemy
Thug: Intimidation, Athletics, Poisoner's Kit
That might encourage non-rogues to take a more criminal background.
Part of the problem is that the Criminal Background gives you Deception, Stealth, and a choice of Gaming Set or Thieves Tools. The only thing a Non Rogue Criminal type wants is the Feature, Criminal Contact.
What? Rogues already get Thieves Tools and the option for proficiency in those skills. Non-rogues get more mileage out of the Criminal background than rogues do. I'm playing a Criminal Warlock right now and I'm the one who does the sneaking and the lockpicking in the party.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Part of the problem is that the Criminal Background gives you Deception, Stealth, and a choice of Gaming Set or Thieves Tools. The only thing a Non Rogue Criminal type wants is the Feature, Criminal Contact.
What? Rogues already get Thieves Tools and the option for proficiency in those skills. Non-rogues get more mileage out of the Criminal background than rogues do. I'm playing a Criminal Warlock right now and I'm the one who does the sneaking and the lockpicking in the party.
Yep, my party has a Druid and a Sorcerer with the Criminal(Spy) background. They have a common origin in a group that's basically a guerrilla collective (sorta Robin Hoodish). Party has two rogues, one is from the aforementioned collective and went with the Outlander background to reflect the unconventional/fringe upbringing. The other went urchin because it fit the character's concept. I think a lot of players may just grab criminal background for Rogues as part of a quick build approach.
But I think Mog_Dracov is saying the Criminal background does not really do justice, so to speak. to the broad spectrum of criminality a character identified as "criminal" could be engaged in. Stealth and Deception are skills essential to work that entails "not getting caught" (hence the criminal is also given the variant "spy"). I think the Charlatan background adequately covers the gamut of fraudsters mentioned in this thread. I think if you wanted to broaden criminal background options from there you could call the extant criminal a "criminal sneak" or just "sneak". For the ruffian type that would be enforcers, strong-arm robbers and others who engage in criminal activity through force or threat of violence, "ruffian" could get the intimidation and athletics, and I'd probably go with a gaming set. For somewhere in between the sneak and ruffian, ambush banditry, you could have the highwayman (highway person?, I guess maybe just bandit) that would have both stealth and intimidation, and either a gaming set or disguise kit.
I don't like "criminal mage" as I believe backgrounds shouldn't be class specific. Also I don't see why most of the backgrounds can't be "criminalized" through the story the background is supposed to reflect.
Yeah, any background can be used for any character. Though I'd really like to hear the story of how a Cloistered Scholar became a Barbarian.
They maintain the totemic objects etc that contain hidden histories of the land and the broader world that has left their peoples ways.... Just need to adapt the library to devices more associated to the Barbarian's people.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
It's worth noting that a specific, highly publicized and well known Cobalt Soul monk is confirmed as using the Criminal background. In her case, Criminal represented her dabbling in bootlegging and smuggling during her Rebellious Teens years.
Personally, I'm a big fan of Criminal on magic user classes. A Criminal wizard or sorcerer can be a lot of fun, especially if Acq Inc's money-focused spells are in play. A Shadow sorcerer gains enhanced darkvision and the ability to create Darkness it can see through. Hound of Ill Omen technically doesn't require any sort of spell components, which means it's a fantastic distraction for a crooked Shadow sorcerer who needs a diversion. Shadow Walk allows for a bonus-action teleport with a very nice range if you start and end in shadow - note that you don't need any other shadow between the two, meaning patrolling critters with torches or the like don't break the teleport. And of course, Umbral Form lets you ghost through walls. Take a suite of spells designed for skullduggery rather than blasting, and a Criminal Shadow sorcerer can make a pretty fantastic thief or assassin type.
Barbarians make pretty excellent thugs and enforcers. A Criminal Berserker or Totem barbarian who takes great pains to dress in fine clothes in the latest fashions, keeps his appearance neat and tidy, and speaks with exquisite tact and politeness when not going apeshit is on my character bucket list someday. To whit:
"I consider myself a civilized man. Civility is very important to me, you see. Without civility, there can be no discourse; without discourse, there can be no agreement; without agreement, there can be no trade; without trade, civilizations fall. Truly, civility is the root of society. Despite this, there are times when civility fails. Times when a civilized man must do uncivilized things in order to maintain the delicate balance that underpins society. When such a time comes upon a civilized man, that man must shake off the golden chains of society he otherwise proudly wears. When those chains are off...well. Those chains are heavy, indeed. When they're off, a civilized man is liable to get a little...zealous. Do things they would never condone when in their right mind. Do things no one would condone. Nasty things. Bloody things. But not fatal things. Oh, no. When a civilized man shakes off the golden chains and descends into savagery, he's rarely so considerate, so...civilized...as to allow whoever has driven him to that sad state to enjoy a quick, clean death."
"So tell me, Mr. Miller. Are we going to be able to have discourse? Come to an agreement, and conclude the trade you agreed upon when you accepted Mr. Landon's loans? Or am I going to have to do something...uncivilized?"
I was hoping for a librarian who really disliked people who had overdo books.
Conan the librarian exacts harsh retribution for those who fail to honor the library due date. Books are due because the library serves the whole Book Clan, not the individual book hoarder. Hoarding knowledge is deadly to the survival of the Book Clan. Dangers to the Book Clan must be destroyed. An overdue book is a danger to the Book Clan. By Book Clan Way, Conan must destroy the holder of the overdue book to make the Book Clan whole again with justice.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Could there be a fine line between Criminal and Urchin where an interpretation of the Urchin background may qualify as Criminal and vice-versa?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
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Why are they so uncommon. I've had lots of fun with a fighter thief/assassin.
Graverobbers, looters, murderers and burglars come in all classes and backgrounds. Usually they're referred to as "PCs".
The next character I plan to play is a Paladin who worked with a group of bounty hunters that went kinda robin hood, including have an assumed identity.
They realized a number of the bounties they took in were people just trying to survive while greedy nobles grew fat off of corruption. So they infiltrated high society and pulled multiple cons on suspected corrupt nobles, my PC used their charisma and looks to get into the houses of nobles before robbing them blind. Of course not all the money the bounty hunters stole went to charities but the majority did.
Eventually this character fled before their identity was discovered and their family endangered, after a few of the other bounty hunters were caught/executed. On their travels, working with various groups of adventurers, they came across a lot of new things and found a deep respect of life in both nature and civilization that didn't exist before, before eventually swearing an oath and taking up an ancient cause.
But yeah, generally it's rare to find a PC who doesn't commit at least one crime during a campaign!
Try playing a Criminal background Wizard some time. 😈
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It's funny how you ask why so uncommon when you're a Rogue.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Is that meant to be a joke on how I basically created a rogue because that's most of what rogues tend to be? Or am I thinking too much?
one of my favorite criminals was the changeling face thief. She was a sorcerer who went around, taking on the personas of people she found interesting, and framing them for crimes and stuff, partially because she bloody could, and partially because she got to keep the stuff she stole during the framing for herself.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Because when a mage is a criminal they tend to be written as disasters or just evil because raising the dead is more of a crime (in some places) just just killing someone.
Criminals take imagination to break from the stereotype. The PHB describes criminal backgrounds as more than just murder and stealing, but it doesn't go into too much detail. I surmise it's because there's too much to cover beyond stealing. The table in the PHB is not stated to be the only options.
Beyond thieving, killing, blackmail, and smuggling, there's also extortion and fraud such as fraudulent trading, embezzling, tax evasion... anything that makes someone have a desire to hide from law enforcing people or from opposing criminal factions (or both just to be clear).
Even the ones in the PHB can have variances. Blackmail has different phases and one could be an investigator to dig up dirt, the courier to deliver threats or collect payments, the one who orchestrated the whole thing... It could simply be someone who stumbled upon an important person's dirty laundry and took to blackmailing said person.
...but one must widen their perception of criminal activities.
These varied activities can be better suited to other classes than Rogue. A fighter or a damage dealing mage could be better for extortion. Anyone could do fraudulent trading. A rogue might be too conspicuous for embezzling.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Part of the problem is that the Criminal Background gives you Deception, Stealth, and a choice of Gaming Set or Thieves Tools. The only thing a Non Rogue Criminal type wants is the Feature, Criminal Contact.
If they made a Criminal Caster or Criminal Thug, with abilities like:
Criminal Mage: Perception, Arcana, Alchemy
Thug: Intimidation, Athletics, Poisoner's Kit
That might encourage non-rogues to take a more criminal background.
I think that Wysperra was pointing out that thief and assassin are both rogue subclasses.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
What? Rogues already get Thieves Tools and the option for proficiency in those skills. Non-rogues get more mileage out of the Criminal background than rogues do. I'm playing a Criminal Warlock right now and I'm the one who does the sneaking and the lockpicking in the party.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Yep, my party has a Druid and a Sorcerer with the Criminal(Spy) background. They have a common origin in a group that's basically a guerrilla collective (sorta Robin Hoodish). Party has two rogues, one is from the aforementioned collective and went with the Outlander background to reflect the unconventional/fringe upbringing. The other went urchin because it fit the character's concept. I think a lot of players may just grab criminal background for Rogues as part of a quick build approach.
But I think Mog_Dracov is saying the Criminal background does not really do justice, so to speak. to the broad spectrum of criminality a character identified as "criminal" could be engaged in. Stealth and Deception are skills essential to work that entails "not getting caught" (hence the criminal is also given the variant "spy"). I think the Charlatan background adequately covers the gamut of fraudsters mentioned in this thread. I think if you wanted to broaden criminal background options from there you could call the extant criminal a "criminal sneak" or just "sneak". For the ruffian type that would be enforcers, strong-arm robbers and others who engage in criminal activity through force or threat of violence, "ruffian" could get the intimidation and athletics, and I'd probably go with a gaming set. For somewhere in between the sneak and ruffian, ambush banditry, you could have the highwayman (highway person?, I guess maybe just bandit) that would have both stealth and intimidation, and either a gaming set or disguise kit.
I don't like "criminal mage" as I believe backgrounds shouldn't be class specific. Also I don't see why most of the backgrounds can't be "criminalized" through the story the background is supposed to reflect.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Yeah, any background can be used for any character. Though I'd really like to hear the story of how a Cloistered Scholar became a Barbarian.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
They maintain the totemic objects etc that contain hidden histories of the land and the broader world that has left their peoples ways.... Just need to adapt the library to devices more associated to the Barbarian's people.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Rats.
I was hoping for a librarian who really disliked people who had overdo books.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
It's worth noting that a specific, highly publicized and well known Cobalt Soul monk is confirmed as using the Criminal background. In her case, Criminal represented her dabbling in bootlegging and smuggling during her Rebellious Teens years.
Personally, I'm a big fan of Criminal on magic user classes. A Criminal wizard or sorcerer can be a lot of fun, especially if Acq Inc's money-focused spells are in play. A Shadow sorcerer gains enhanced darkvision and the ability to create Darkness it can see through. Hound of Ill Omen technically doesn't require any sort of spell components, which means it's a fantastic distraction for a crooked Shadow sorcerer who needs a diversion. Shadow Walk allows for a bonus-action teleport with a very nice range if you start and end in shadow - note that you don't need any other shadow between the two, meaning patrolling critters with torches or the like don't break the teleport. And of course, Umbral Form lets you ghost through walls. Take a suite of spells designed for skullduggery rather than blasting, and a Criminal Shadow sorcerer can make a pretty fantastic thief or assassin type.
Barbarians make pretty excellent thugs and enforcers. A Criminal Berserker or Totem barbarian who takes great pains to dress in fine clothes in the latest fashions, keeps his appearance neat and tidy, and speaks with exquisite tact and politeness when not going apeshit is on my character bucket list someday. To whit:
"I consider myself a civilized man. Civility is very important to me, you see. Without civility, there can be no discourse; without discourse, there can be no agreement; without agreement, there can be no trade; without trade, civilizations fall. Truly, civility is the root of society. Despite this, there are times when civility fails. Times when a civilized man must do uncivilized things in order to maintain the delicate balance that underpins society. When such a time comes upon a civilized man, that man must shake off the golden chains of society he otherwise proudly wears. When those chains are off...well. Those chains are heavy, indeed. When they're off, a civilized man is liable to get a little...zealous. Do things they would never condone when in their right mind. Do things no one would condone. Nasty things. Bloody things. But not fatal things. Oh, no. When a civilized man shakes off the golden chains and descends into savagery, he's rarely so considerate, so...civilized...as to allow whoever has driven him to that sad state to enjoy a quick, clean death."
"So tell me, Mr. Miller. Are we going to be able to have discourse? Come to an agreement, and conclude the trade you agreed upon when you accepted Mr. Landon's loans? Or am I going to have to do something...uncivilized?"
Please do not contact or message me.
Bruce Banner.
Conan the librarian exacts harsh retribution for those who fail to honor the library due date. Books are due because the library serves the whole Book Clan, not the individual book hoarder. Hoarding knowledge is deadly to the survival of the Book Clan. Dangers to the Book Clan must be destroyed. An overdue book is a danger to the Book Clan. By Book Clan Way, Conan must destroy the holder of the overdue book to make the Book Clan whole again with justice.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Could there be a fine line between Criminal and Urchin where an interpretation of the Urchin background may qualify as Criminal and vice-versa?
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.