In the announcement of pre-orders for the new Dragonlance bundles, it appears that stores that sell physical copies won't have the digital copies included. Wizards will be selling the bundles for the same price as the stores, but including the digital copy. Why would anyone buy from a FLGS then? Wizards is directly affecting the sales of the very small businesses that promote their games and help teach future generations.
Your FLGS will still have all the minis, paints, brushes, etc. for gamin goodness. Yes, they will be impacted, but I don't think it's going to put them out of business.
It will, they need the sales of these products to keep the lights on for us to play. Why host game nights for products that people can buy online that include a significant bonus?
In the announcement of pre-orders for the new Dragonlance bundles, it appears that stores that sell physical copies won't have the digital copies included. Wizards will be selling the bundles for the same price as the stores, but including the digital copy. Why would anyone buy from a FLGS then? Wizards is directly affecting the sales of the very small businesses that promote their games and help teach future generations.
No more damage than selling on Amazon. I wanted to help my LGS but they asked $240 (CAD) for the same bundle (PHB, DMG and MM, not even the alternate art version) that I could get for $130 on Amazon... the choice wasn't hard. I can understand a small markup, you do get it right away and you help a local business but some of them are just too greedy.
Besides, the shipping cost is insane if you are outside the US so it may not even have that much of an impact.
In the announcement of pre-orders for the new Dragonlance bundles, it appears that stores that sell physical copies won't have the digital copies included. Wizards will be selling the bundles for the same price as the stores, but including the digital copy. Why would anyone buy from a FLGS then? Wizards is directly affecting the sales of the very small businesses that promote their games and help teach future generations.
No more damage than selling on Amazon. I wanted to help my LGS but they asked $240 (CAD) for the same bundle (PHB, DMG and MM, not even the alternate art version) that I could get for $130 on Amazon... the choice wasn't hard. I can understand a small markup, you do get it right away and you help a local business but some of them are just too greedy.
Besides, the shipping cost is insane if you are outside the US so it may not even have that much of an impact.
You realize that Amazon is selling books for less than they paid, right? They will take a loss on purpose just to make sure they can run competitors out of business. That's not a good comparison. Compare your FLGS to Barnes's and Noble (or other equivalent depending on where you're from) to be more accurate. Amazon is evil, don't make them your basis of comparison.
Many Many games already offer PDF with Books. After their first test run, their should be a way to buy thenew books and still get a digital copy. If every other company can figure it out, so should wizards
In the announcement of pre-orders for the new Dragonlance bundles, it appears that stores that sell physical copies won't have the digital copies included. Wizards will be selling the bundles for the same price as the stores, but including the digital copy. Why would anyone buy from a FLGS then? Wizards is directly affecting the sales of the very small businesses that promote their games and help teach future generations.
No more damage than selling on Amazon. I wanted to help my LGS but they asked $240 (CAD) for the same bundle (PHB, DMG and MM, not even the alternate art version) that I could get for $130 on Amazon... the choice wasn't hard. I can understand a small markup, you do get it right away and you help a local business but some of them are just too greedy.
Besides, the shipping cost is insane if you are outside the US so it may not even have that much of an impact.
You realize that Amazon is selling books for less than they paid, right? They will take a loss on purpose just to make sure they can run competitors out of business. That's not a good comparison. Compare your FLGS to Barnes's and Noble (or other equivalent depending on where you're from) to be more accurate. Amazon is evil, don't make them your basis of comparison.
I know, if you want a more accurate comparison, another game store (6 hours away so not local) sell the same books around 160 CAD, a small, more understandable markup vs nearly 77%.
EDIT: Anyway, my point simply was that the damage is more or less already done at this point because Wizards partnered with Amazon (especially for MTG but they probably get the books at a discount too). I do agree that this new development doesn't help LGS though.
In the announcement of pre-orders for the new Dragonlance bundles, it appears that stores that sell physical copies won't have the digital copies included. Wizards will be selling the bundles for the same price as the stores, but including the digital copy. Why would anyone buy from a FLGS then? Wizards is directly affecting the sales of the very small businesses that promote their games and help teach future generations.
If you had my LGS notice the lack of an F they run the store in my town out of business
I'm in Australia and it's not worth the bundled price because of shipping. FLGS all the way. That said, I haven't bought a WotC hardcover for ages. It's all DDB.
In the announcement of pre-orders for the new Dragonlance bundles, it appears that stores that sell physical copies won't have the digital copies included. Wizards will be selling the bundles for the same price as the stores, but including the digital copy. Why would anyone buy from a FLGS then? Wizards is directly affecting the sales of the very small businesses that promote their games and help teach future generations.
Well the simplest answer is to play something else. Not that I have any good suggestions, all my favourite games are now discontinued =D
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
In the announcement of pre-orders for the new Dragonlance bundles, it appears that stores that sell physical copies won't have the digital copies included. Wizards will be selling the bundles for the same price as the stores, but including the digital copy. Why would anyone buy from a FLGS then? Wizards is directly affecting the sales of the very small businesses that promote their games and help teach future generations.
I did the maths...the bundle is the same to more expensive than getting it from my FLGS and getting the DDB separately based on other books (depends on what book you look at). The only difference is that WotC offers early access while my FLGS doesn't require me to be at home at a specific time to pickup the delivery.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The world is changing. It's called progress. Businesses will either adapt or disappear. It's a fact of life, so unless you're going to start demanding full service gas stations make a comeback in a world where electric cars are actually becoming viable on a large scale, you're just going to have to accept this. Actually you'll have to either accept it eventually or just learn to deal with the disappointment because you aren't going to find anyplace where they pump your gas for you and people will buy things in whatever way they can get the best deal.
Also, LGS typically do not make a significant portion of their income from TTRPG book sales. For every $30-$50 book they sell they'll move several times that value in minis and supplies and probably dozens of times as much in CCGs.
I agree with your "It's called progress." statement. I'm happy that some people have a nice friendly gaming store. I, however, do not have one located close to me. So, should I not be able to have this bundle?
Game stores that rely on book sales alone will find themselves out of business in the future because they cannot be competitive on price. The FLGS should be offering services that I cannot get from Amazon to make me frequent their store. Such as hosting a game night and offering food and beverages for example. Most stores I have been in are the opposite, banning food and drink. They could even charge a cover price for attending game night. Again, they would have to provide a service for charging the cover, like a nice, clean, safe place to play games. They can make their money on the services and not the books. FLGS need to evolve past being a book store or Hobby Lobby to survive.
I conveniently live in a city with a number of LGSs, most of which are quite F. At least one of them does indeed charge a cover to use their store as a meetup for playing games. Five bucks and you get use of the tables they have filling the spaces of their store that aren't taken up by shelves. There's usually a specific game for most days. Friday evenings and Saturday afternoons are Magic, a draft tourny is hosted Friday but during either day a bunch of people come in just to play pickup commander games. Other days have Yugi-Oh, Pokemon, Warhammer (both fantasy and 40k) and other games that are bi-weekly or monthly. Iirc they even have a group of old grognards that meet there for Starfleet Battles once a month.
And, big surprise, when you give a bunch of geeks a reason to hang out in a place where they're surrounded by things that are very specifically marketed at them quite a few of them end up buying some of that stuff before they leave.
I hope not, but this is a bit concerning. It’s early stages yet, so I suppose we’ll find out if they continue with this approach.
Every time one of these threads pops up it's just this collective sigh in my head.
If your "friendly local game shop" has been relying on D&D book sales to sustain business? They're already dead. Honestly, my local shops table top source book section is smaller than their mini section. Its a bookshelf in the furthest corner in the store. It doesn't take prime real estate because the business for a flgs isn't source books. tcg/ccg and hobbyist stuff like paints, flocking, brushes etc. Magic/Yu-Gi-Oh groups will buy booster bricks together etc and the forever DM will keep buying minis. Books on amazon because the fact is why are they going to buy a 50 dollar book at MSRP when I can buy it for 22.95 on Amazon right now? Ditto with board games? Minis though, people want to see those. Paints people want to compare colors. TCG/CCG the worthless cards they'll instantly trade in for points/store credit while the store will take that card and sell it as bulk for 10x what they just gave back.
Wizards job isn't to facilitate brick and mortar when brick and mortar is dying. It was in 2008(prior to the pdf ban) when piracy directly affected the sale of books when digital/online sales were not what they are today, but not anymore. The irony on that is that people will go "BUT WIZARDS ISN'T BEING FAITHFUL" and the lol reality there is Wizards has never been faithful and it's always had an extremely short term memory in remembering where it's at and why it's there. Wizards blew the hell up because of pokemon and bought brick and mortar stores, quickly realized that WASNT where the money was and closed them down.
Many Many games already offer PDF with Books. After their first test run, their should be a way to buy thenew books and still get a digital copy. If every other company can figure it out, so should wizards
It's also much easier for those games to be pirated because of it. Since 08, Wizards has not cared about releasing digital pdfs and honestly with the purchase of D&D Beyond? I don't think they ever will for the current edition of D&D. If we ever get an edition of D&D that isn't backward compatible with 5th, I think at that point you'll see official PDFs of 5th but only at that point.
A lot of things have had a negative effect on my local gaming store. Covid hurt them bad. They had to shut down entirely for a while. 3D printing is cutting into their miniature sales, no doubt. This move will cut into their D&D book sales as well. But I really wonder how much of their revenue D&D books make up. They are a gaming store, so there is a variety of games they sell. And, like many others, they also sell comics.
…..Wizards will be selling the bundles for the same price as the stores, but including the digital copy…..
I don’t believe this is the case. I believe the bundle is more expensive than getting the book at the store (Although the store book will not include digital). When you add shipping to the mix—especially for folks outside the US it’s either a wash or cheaper to but the book at a FLGS and the digital version through DDB.
In the announcement of pre-orders for the new Dragonlance bundles, it appears that stores that sell physical copies won't have the digital copies included. Wizards will be selling the bundles for the same price as the stores, but including the digital copy. Why would anyone buy from a FLGS then? Wizards is directly affecting the sales of the very small businesses that promote their games and help teach future generations.
Your FLGS will still have all the minis, paints, brushes, etc. for gamin goodness. Yes, they will be impacted, but I don't think it's going to put them out of business.
It will, they need the sales of these products to keep the lights on for us to play. Why host game nights for products that people can buy online that include a significant bonus?
No more damage than selling on Amazon. I wanted to help my LGS but they asked $240 (CAD) for the same bundle (PHB, DMG and MM, not even the alternate art version) that I could get for $130 on Amazon... the choice wasn't hard. I can understand a small markup, you do get it right away and you help a local business but some of them are just too greedy.
Besides, the shipping cost is insane if you are outside the US so it may not even have that much of an impact.
You realize that Amazon is selling books for less than they paid, right? They will take a loss on purpose just to make sure they can run competitors out of business. That's not a good comparison. Compare your FLGS to Barnes's and Noble (or other equivalent depending on where you're from) to be more accurate. Amazon is evil, don't make them your basis of comparison.
Many Many games already offer PDF with Books. After their first test run, their should be a way to buy thenew books and still get a digital copy. If every other company can figure it out, so should wizards
I know, if you want a more accurate comparison, another game store (6 hours away so not local) sell the same books around 160 CAD, a small, more understandable markup vs nearly 77%.
EDIT: Anyway, my point simply was that the damage is more or less already done at this point because Wizards partnered with Amazon (especially for MTG but they probably get the books at a discount too). I do agree that this new development doesn't help LGS though.
If you had my LGS notice the lack of an F they run the store in my town out of business
I'm in Australia and it's not worth the bundled price because of shipping. FLGS all the way. That said, I haven't bought a WotC hardcover for ages. It's all DDB.
My only gripe is that the alt cover calls to me and I won’t get a chance to score a digital copy if I go that route.
Well the simplest answer is to play something else. Not that I have any good suggestions, all my favourite games are now discontinued =D
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I did the maths...the bundle is the same to more expensive than getting it from my FLGS and getting the DDB separately based on other books (depends on what book you look at). The only difference is that WotC offers early access while my FLGS doesn't require me to be at home at a specific time to pickup the delivery.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The world is changing. It's called progress. Businesses will either adapt or disappear. It's a fact of life, so unless you're going to start demanding full service gas stations make a comeback in a world where electric cars are actually becoming viable on a large scale, you're just going to have to accept this. Actually you'll have to either accept it eventually or just learn to deal with the disappointment because you aren't going to find anyplace where they pump your gas for you and people will buy things in whatever way they can get the best deal.
Also, LGS typically do not make a significant portion of their income from TTRPG book sales. For every $30-$50 book they sell they'll move several times that value in minis and supplies and probably dozens of times as much in CCGs.
I agree with your "It's called progress." statement. I'm happy that some people have a nice friendly gaming store. I, however, do not have one located close to me. So, should I not be able to have this bundle?
Game stores that rely on book sales alone will find themselves out of business in the future because they cannot be competitive on price. The FLGS should be offering services that I cannot get from Amazon to make me frequent their store. Such as hosting a game night and offering food and beverages for example. Most stores I have been in are the opposite, banning food and drink. They could even charge a cover price for attending game night. Again, they would have to provide a service for charging the cover, like a nice, clean, safe place to play games. They can make their money on the services and not the books. FLGS need to evolve past being a book store or Hobby Lobby to survive.
I conveniently live in a city with a number of LGSs, most of which are quite F. At least one of them does indeed charge a cover to use their store as a meetup for playing games. Five bucks and you get use of the tables they have filling the spaces of their store that aren't taken up by shelves. There's usually a specific game for most days. Friday evenings and Saturday afternoons are Magic, a draft tourny is hosted Friday but during either day a bunch of people come in just to play pickup commander games. Other days have Yugi-Oh, Pokemon, Warhammer (both fantasy and 40k) and other games that are bi-weekly or monthly. Iirc they even have a group of old grognards that meet there for Starfleet Battles once a month.
And, big surprise, when you give a bunch of geeks a reason to hang out in a place where they're surrounded by things that are very specifically marketed at them quite a few of them end up buying some of that stuff before they leave.
With the pre-sell now available, I think it's going to be the same price:
DNDB Bundle of Dragonlance: 60 + 12 in shipping.
Hobby Cover Dragonlance is 45 for preorder right now with in store pickup, and digital only is $27. (at my game shop in the US, obviously prices vary)
So, roughly $72 either way. Only thing you'll miss is the early-access, which I can live with.
Every time one of these threads pops up it's just this collective sigh in my head.
If your "friendly local game shop" has been relying on D&D book sales to sustain business? They're already dead. Honestly, my local shops table top source book section is smaller than their mini section. Its a bookshelf in the furthest corner in the store. It doesn't take prime real estate because the business for a flgs isn't source books. tcg/ccg and hobbyist stuff like paints, flocking, brushes etc. Magic/Yu-Gi-Oh groups will buy booster bricks together etc and the forever DM will keep buying minis. Books on amazon because the fact is why are they going to buy a 50 dollar book at MSRP when I can buy it for 22.95 on Amazon right now? Ditto with board games? Minis though, people want to see those. Paints people want to compare colors. TCG/CCG the worthless cards they'll instantly trade in for points/store credit while the store will take that card and sell it as bulk for 10x what they just gave back.
https://www.amazon.com/Players-Handbook-Dungeons-Dragons-Wizards/dp/0786965606/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2L6RMJ4FGJAB5&keywords=5th edition players handbook&qid=1661223124&sprefix=5th edition players handbook,aps,93&sr=8-1
Wizards job isn't to facilitate brick and mortar when brick and mortar is dying. It was in 2008(prior to the pdf ban) when piracy directly affected the sale of books when digital/online sales were not what they are today, but not anymore. The irony on that is that people will go "BUT WIZARDS ISN'T BEING FAITHFUL" and the lol reality there is Wizards has never been faithful and it's always had an extremely short term memory in remembering where it's at and why it's there. Wizards blew the hell up because of pokemon and bought brick and mortar stores, quickly realized that WASNT where the money was and closed them down.
It's also much easier for those games to be pirated because of it. Since 08, Wizards has not cared about releasing digital pdfs and honestly with the purchase of D&D Beyond? I don't think they ever will for the current edition of D&D. If we ever get an edition of D&D that isn't backward compatible with 5th, I think at that point you'll see official PDFs of 5th but only at that point.
A lot of things have had a negative effect on my local gaming store. Covid hurt them bad. They had to shut down entirely for a while. 3D printing is cutting into their miniature sales, no doubt. This move will cut into their D&D book sales as well. But I really wonder how much of their revenue D&D books make up. They are a gaming store, so there is a variety of games they sell. And, like many others, they also sell comics.
My hope is that the impact is minimal.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I don’t believe this is the case. I believe the bundle is more expensive than getting the book at the store (Although the store book will not include digital). When you add shipping to the mix—especially for folks outside the US it’s either a wash or cheaper to but the book at a FLGS and the digital version through DDB.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
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