The term is more commonly "Skill Monkey", and simply refers to characters who have a broad range of skill competencies. Some characters are good in combat, others are good in social encounters, or have spells, and Skill Monkies are the Swiss army knife that can overcome the daily technical challenges such as lockpicking, vaulting through windows, or creating forgeries.
The Expert class lists classes that gain the Expertise feature, which makes those characters specialists in a subset of skills.
Rogues prioritize Dexterity and Intelligence, which are important skills attributes, while Bards have Jack of All Trades, which allows them to apply half of their proficiency bonus to any skill they aren't already proficient in.
The term I've heard is "skill monkeys", but I imagine it's the same thing.
Basically, the idea is that they have a lot of proficiencies so they can use their skills to overcome obstacles. Martials tend to just break stuff and hope it breaks in the right way to get them past the obstacle. Casters tend to use precious spell slots to over come the obstacle...or just break stuff in the hopes that it breaks in a convenient way, but magically.
Bards and Rogues have enough proficiencies and expertise/half-proficiencies that they can be good at passing a lot of skill checks etc, so they can overcome the obstacle without expending resources like other classes tend to do. That's really useful for dungeon delvers and so forth.
So, for example, let's say you're exploring a dungeon with traps. The martial will walk into a room and just trigger them, trusting to their high HP, AC and possibly Saving Throws to see them through. Not ideal. The caster walks in and spams Find Traps, which burns through their spell slots like crazy. Again, not ideal. The Rogue almost certainly is proficient in Perception, if not having expertise, so he just sneaks in, does a free Perception check and sees if there are traps. He then uses his proficiency in Investigation to figure out how to disarm it, and his proficiency in Sleight of Hand to actually disarm it...all while not expending any resources beyond time.
That's why they're useful to have around. They can do stuff just as well as anyone else, but also for free. The Ranger is in a similar boat. Not quite to the same degree, but to the proficiencies he does get are really useful and his purpose is to basically do the checks that pertain to being outside (eg, foraging, tracking, identifying potential enemies, etc). That's probably why they were put into the Expert group - and now they get things like expertise,.which further develops this aspect.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
In the PHB rogues get 4 skills while Bards and Rangers get 3 skills. Every other class only gets 2 skills. In addition rogues get expertise in (those) 4 skills and reliable talent, bards get jack of all trades and rangers get double proficiency in selected outdoors related skill checks these bonuses and extra skills let these three c”asses stand head and shoulders above the others when it comes to doing things in a resource free manner.
The term "skill monkey" was originally pejorative. The idea was that parties needed to have SOMEONE around who could pick locks, climb walls, and so on... But that character was only there for their skills. They weren't really useful for anything else.
Rogues and Bards are both considerably better nowadays than they once were.
it was probably me that said "skill junkies" somewhere in some thread.
i just personally don't like the word monkey used outside of anything non-simian. Just my own personal thing in my head.
But yeah, i refer to classes that find ways to get good at a lot of skills. They can be useful in a combat heavy group to be someone that can sneak into places, get past traps, deal with social encounters, look at things and figure them out, etc. Rogues and Bards obviously top the list, being so versatile in how they get built.
Basically, the idea is that they have a lot of proficiencies so they can use their skills to overcome obstacles. Martials tend to just break stuff and hope it breaks in the right way to get them past the obstacle. Casters tend to use precious spell slots to over come the obstacle...or just break stuff in the hopes that it breaks in a convenient way, but magically.
Bards and Rogues have enough proficiencies and expertise/half-proficiencies that they can be good at passing a lot of skill checks etc, so they can overcome the obstacle without expending resources like other classes tend to do. That's really useful for dungeon delvers and so forth.
SNIP!
lol
Love this paragraph. :D
And wonderful insights everyone, and yes Wheezal, it was your post that got me wondering. This all reminds me of the necessity of having a thief in dungeons, back in the AD&D days. And I like how the rogue, bard, and ranger have diverse skills. I hope this Expert Class thingy fits well. Almost seems like a sorta Feat but is an interchangeable class Feature?. I didn't read anything about it, so what everyone has posted here is a terrific help for how one might compare. :)
Yeah that's literally the point of Expert classes - to create a grouping of classes whose commonality is they receive significantly more skills than other classes and can gain expertise in skills (in the case of rogue and bard). Classes that up to now have been considered Skill Monkey classes will be known as Expert Classes going forward. (Other class groups coming in One D&D include Mages, Priests, and Warriors. It's basically all a throwback to 2nd Edition.)
There are other ways to become a skill monkey though, beyond class choice. There are Feats like Prodigy, Skill Expert, Skilled. There are backgrounds that provide more skills and no languages. Custom Origins in Tasha's allows you to swap out certain racial benefits in a way that you can optimize your skills and tool proficiencies. Then there's just plain training.
What they said; a skill monkey is just a class that is designed to be able to do a lot of different things, to be versatile, and to be able to do a lot outside of combat as well as in it. Skill junkie is just what Wheezal called it in the post I have cross-quoted below:
<Snip> Getting to add that number really shows off what your character knows. and for expertise, you can double it! Rogues and Bards get expertise a few times in their careers, which makes them great skill junkies.
Going forward I suspect skills will be more important judging from the 1D&D UAs. The background UA gives everyone 2 skills and a tool and a language, then the. Expert classes (Bard, Ranger, Rogue (& Artificer)) each get 3 more skills with the rogue getting 4 and all the experts get expertise in 4 skills eventually. Apparently they consider the 4th class skill more or less equivalent to spell ability.
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Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
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So, just as a discussion. Recently someone posted how rogues and bards are basically "skill junkies".
Tell me what that actually means? And, how is this related to the "expert class" arcana proposed in a recent OneD&D playtest?
Hey, love to read your opinions on this. For newer players (and DMs like me!), it would be terrific insight into Skill mechanics.
The term is more commonly "Skill Monkey", and simply refers to characters who have a broad range of skill competencies. Some characters are good in combat, others are good in social encounters, or have spells, and Skill Monkies are the Swiss army knife that can overcome the daily technical challenges such as lockpicking, vaulting through windows, or creating forgeries.
The Expert class lists classes that gain the Expertise feature, which makes those characters specialists in a subset of skills.
Rogues prioritize Dexterity and Intelligence, which are important skills attributes, while Bards have Jack of All Trades, which allows them to apply half of their proficiency bonus to any skill they aren't already proficient in.
The term I've heard is "skill monkeys", but I imagine it's the same thing.
Basically, the idea is that they have a lot of proficiencies so they can use their skills to overcome obstacles. Martials tend to just break stuff and hope it breaks in the right way to get them past the obstacle. Casters tend to use precious spell slots to over come the obstacle...or just break stuff in the hopes that it breaks in a convenient way, but magically.
Bards and Rogues have enough proficiencies and expertise/half-proficiencies that they can be good at passing a lot of skill checks etc, so they can overcome the obstacle without expending resources like other classes tend to do. That's really useful for dungeon delvers and so forth.
So, for example, let's say you're exploring a dungeon with traps. The martial will walk into a room and just trigger them, trusting to their high HP, AC and possibly Saving Throws to see them through. Not ideal. The caster walks in and spams Find Traps, which burns through their spell slots like crazy. Again, not ideal. The Rogue almost certainly is proficient in Perception, if not having expertise, so he just sneaks in, does a free Perception check and sees if there are traps. He then uses his proficiency in Investigation to figure out how to disarm it, and his proficiency in Sleight of Hand to actually disarm it...all while not expending any resources beyond time.
That's why they're useful to have around. They can do stuff just as well as anyone else, but also for free. The Ranger is in a similar boat. Not quite to the same degree, but to the proficiencies he does get are really useful and his purpose is to basically do the checks that pertain to being outside (eg, foraging, tracking, identifying potential enemies, etc). That's probably why they were put into the Expert group - and now they get things like expertise,.which further develops this aspect.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
In the PHB rogues get 4 skills while Bards and Rangers get 3 skills. Every other class only gets 2 skills. In addition rogues get expertise in (those) 4 skills and reliable talent, bards get jack of all trades and rangers get double proficiency in selected outdoors related skill checks these bonuses and extra skills let these three c”asses stand head and shoulders above the others when it comes to doing things in a resource free manner.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
The term "skill monkey" was originally pejorative. The idea was that parties needed to have SOMEONE around who could pick locks, climb walls, and so on... But that character was only there for their skills. They weren't really useful for anything else.
Rogues and Bards are both considerably better nowadays than they once were.
it was probably me that said "skill junkies" somewhere in some thread.
i just personally don't like the word monkey used outside of anything non-simian. Just my own personal thing in my head.
But yeah, i refer to classes that find ways to get good at a lot of skills. They can be useful in a combat heavy group to be someone that can sneak into places, get past traps, deal with social encounters, look at things and figure them out, etc. Rogues and Bards obviously top the list, being so versatile in how they get built.
lol
Love this paragraph. :D
And wonderful insights everyone, and yes Wheezal, it was your post that got me wondering. This all reminds me of the necessity of having a thief in dungeons, back in the AD&D days. And I like how the rogue, bard, and ranger have diverse skills. I hope this Expert Class thingy fits well. Almost seems like a sorta Feat but is an interchangeable class Feature?. I didn't read anything about it, so what everyone has posted here is a terrific help for how one might compare. :)
Yeah that's literally the point of Expert classes - to create a grouping of classes whose commonality is they receive significantly more skills than other classes and can gain expertise in skills (in the case of rogue and bard). Classes that up to now have been considered Skill Monkey classes will be known as Expert Classes going forward. (Other class groups coming in One D&D include Mages, Priests, and Warriors. It's basically all a throwback to 2nd Edition.)
There are other ways to become a skill monkey though, beyond class choice. There are Feats like Prodigy, Skill Expert, Skilled. There are backgrounds that provide more skills and no languages. Custom Origins in Tasha's allows you to swap out certain racial benefits in a way that you can optimize your skills and tool proficiencies. Then there's just plain training.
Oh ok, Mages, Priests, and Warriors too. That does sound fun. :)
What they said; a skill monkey is just a class that is designed to be able to do a lot of different things, to be versatile, and to be able to do a lot outside of combat as well as in it. Skill junkie is just what Wheezal called it in the post I have cross-quoted below:
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HERE.Going forward I suspect skills will be more important judging from the 1D&D UAs. The background UA gives everyone 2 skills and a tool and a language, then the. Expert classes (Bard, Ranger, Rogue (& Artificer)) each get 3 more skills with the rogue getting 4 and all the experts get expertise in 4 skills eventually. Apparently they consider the 4th class skill more or less equivalent to spell ability.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.