I will be running a Sci-Fi type game of DnD and my BBEG which is a group of mysterious individuals with their leader being a Human Fighter with an Invisible sword.
I don't know what should be their mission or purpose. maybe Save the world? or something. I want them to be good but a bit radical in their way of changing things but I can change it has the campaign has not started yet and I don't even have all the player.
The party is not evil but not good either so I really don't know how to make my BBEG Compelling.
The principles of good dungeon making are still the key to a compelling BBEG, even in a Sci-Fi setting. The reason Emperor Palpatine was such a memorable BBEG is not him, but the Death Star. So that said, get to working making the Mega Dungeon complex that the BBEG will inhabit before worrying about the BBEG himself.
Another thing, it seems as though you are trying to force a BBEG because you feel you need one. Try instead creating a few potential BBEGs, with different attitudes towards the game world and players, and see who they naturally come to see as their enemy. That’s a better way to go about it.
Well - if neither side is evil, they need to at least be at cross purposes. Like, Vogon's building a hyperspace expressway through your backyard.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
If you have a group then why limit yourself to a single BBEG, take a page from Asassins Creed: Origins and the Order of Ancients. Have a cabal of people working in the shadows, each working on their own initiative/independantly with their own abilities and talents but working toward a common purpose. Then have the party stumble across one of them and hunt them down one by one.
Well - if neither side is evil, they need to at least be at cross purposes. Like, Vogon's building a hyperspace expressway through your backyard.
Get
Your
Towels
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Just about the most singularly useful item one might imagine - and should one ever find oneself with the luxury of a shower, and provided the towel still seems sorta clean enough, one might even dry oneself off with it.
Tangential to the topic of villains, of course. But vogons aren't a bad fit. They're not necessarily evil as such, they don't set out to kick puppies all day - they're just pig headed and stubborn and don't really give a damn. Like, if you don't want a hyperspace expressway through your back yard, maybe you should have looked up the plans and filed a complaint - at your local planning office, in Alpha Centaury, just 4 bloody lightyears away, you layabout good-for-nothing sedentaries.
Of course the vogons are sort of comically carricatured - but they're a nice template for something annoyingly corporate. Someone who follows procedure and fills out forms but isn't terribly concerned about 8 billion pre-starflight sentients on a planet scheduled for demolition.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
If it's sci-Fi as in Wildspace, then make your bad guys some faction of Githyanki. I know you said you were planning a human, but Gith are pretty easily made into villain types, especially if you want someone who's not totally Evil (you can play up the fact that everything they do, they do in the name of stopping Mind Flayers, etc)
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
In my mind; usually the "truly compelling" antagonists in most stories have some ideology or point that they can argue for, and be entirely compelling. You can understand the "why" of what they are doing, even if you are against it or you are at cross-purposes to it. Or to put it another way: a truly compelling villain isn't the villain in their own story; they are actually the hero. Some good examples: - Thanos (Marvel Cinematic universe) - He's identified a real problem; overcrowding and limited resources. Indeed; he's witnessed it destroy his civilization... THe only prolbme is: his solution is monstrous; kill half of everyone by lottery. - Grand Admiral Thrawn (Star Wars Expanded Universe) - He's a charismatic, intelligent, well-spoken "officer and gentleman"; who genuinely believes that the law and order of The Empire is infinitely superior, warts and all, to any other option of the factions to rule the galaxy. His men follow and obey not out of fear, but out of loyalty; they know his plans succeed, and he won't throw away their lives for no purpose. He just happens to be "playing for the wrong team" from the perspective of our heroes. - Magneto (X-Men) - Magneto is the way he is; cold, bitter, and infinitely cynical of the prospect of peace between humans and mutants... because he's seen humanity at its worst. The excuse that individual people are good rings hollow to him, because, to quote First Class: "I've been at the mercy of men just following orders... never again." Magneto is compelling because: if you lived in the marvel universe, and you had the X-gene... would you have the strength of character to follow Professor X? Or... would some part of you want to join Magneto and his Brotherhood of Mutants? - Dracula (Castlevania) - Dracula in Castlevania is a compelling villain because his anger at the humans of Wallachia is entirely justified; his wife gave her all to help them, the church burned her at teh stake, and not a single voice was raised to stop it; we can understand the why of what he's doing what he's doing... even if unleashing the forces of hell onto the innocent is entirely barbaric. - Mao-Kwikowski Mercantile/Protogen Corporation (The Expanse) - This organization discovered something miraculous; real alien life; the things they could learn from it could unlock the secrets of... everything: human immortality, faster-than-light communication and travel, "to free us from these fragile bubbles of rock and air". So; it will conspire to start a war, slaughter the populations of colonies, assassinate those that get in the way; because compared to the alure of knowledge, that loss of life is "a rounding error". - The Nietzscheans (Andromeda) - The people engineered "to be perfect" rebelled against the galactic government they'd served loyally for centuries because, try as they might, they couldn't reconcile a dilemma: The Systems Commonwealth was supposed to be the light of civilization; a bastion of enlightenment in the darkness of space... so: why would it negotiate a peace with The Magog; a species that makes the Xenomorphs from Alien look friendly; as close to pure evil as could exist? They eventually concluded; The Commonwealth was weak, decadent, made soft by too long with no real threats, easy prey for a more ruthless civilization and unable to defend itself... so they would "save" the galaxy instead.
Villains who do what they do simply "because they're evil" or "because they're insane" with no further explanation are alright; they have their place. Indeed: sometimes you need a good pitch-black uncomplicated villain to set the moral floor as it were, or to oppose a more anti-hero good guy. But those villains will always max out at "fascinating" and never "compelling"; they have no "why" besides "why not" or "because I can"; that's the sort of motivation for a "mosnter of the week" style villain, or a "end of the world scenario": not one that you can sit across a table from and argue with.
As others have observed: an asset you have is that this is a group. WHich means that the individual members might differ in their motivations and goals; they might share the same overall mission, but have different reasoning for why they are going about it. Or they might even have a traitor or two in their midst.
I alredy have some comical vilain for this campaign so im trying to avoid a ridiculous one for a more serious main BBEG.
No, but the principle applies: To mine this unobtanium, all these na'vi need to move somewhere else. Hell, we even tried to pay them good space dollars for the land their stupid tree is on, but they just won't listen to reason. Grow a new tree - a nicer one, even. With all this money, they could get one with cable and wifi. But nooooo.
It's not about trees or hyperspace express lanes. It's about a credible conflict of interest - in the absense of quantifiable evil.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
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I will be running a Sci-Fi type game of DnD and my BBEG which is a group of mysterious individuals with their leader being a Human Fighter with an Invisible sword.
I don't know what should be their mission or purpose. maybe Save the world? or something. I want them to be good but a bit radical in their way of changing things but I can change it has the campaign has not started yet and I don't even have all the player.
The party is not evil but not good either so I really don't know how to make my BBEG Compelling.
The principles of good dungeon making are still the key to a compelling BBEG, even in a Sci-Fi setting. The reason Emperor Palpatine was such a memorable BBEG is not him, but the Death Star. So that said, get to working making the Mega Dungeon complex that the BBEG will inhabit before worrying about the BBEG himself.
Another thing, it seems as though you are trying to force a BBEG because you feel you need one. Try instead creating a few potential BBEGs, with different attitudes towards the game world and players, and see who they naturally come to see as their enemy. That’s a better way to go about it.
Well - if neither side is evil, they need to at least be at cross purposes. Like, Vogon's building a hyperspace expressway through your backyard.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
If you have a group then why limit yourself to a single BBEG, take a page from Asassins Creed: Origins and the Order of Ancients. Have a cabal of people working in the shadows, each working on their own initiative/independantly with their own abilities and talents but working toward a common purpose. Then have the party stumble across one of them and hunt them down one by one.
Get
Your
Towels
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Just about the most singularly useful item one might imagine - and should one ever find oneself with the luxury of a shower, and provided the towel still seems sorta clean enough, one might even dry oneself off with it.
Tangential to the topic of villains, of course. But vogons aren't a bad fit. They're not necessarily evil as such, they don't set out to kick puppies all day - they're just pig headed and stubborn and don't really give a damn. Like, if you don't want a hyperspace expressway through your back yard, maybe you should have looked up the plans and filed a complaint - at your local planning office, in Alpha Centaury, just 4 bloody lightyears away, you layabout good-for-nothing sedentaries.
Of course the vogons are sort of comically carricatured - but they're a nice template for something annoyingly corporate. Someone who follows procedure and fills out forms but isn't terribly concerned about 8 billion pre-starflight sentients on a planet scheduled for demolition.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I alredy have some comical vilain for this campaign so im trying to avoid a ridiculous one for a more serious main BBEG.
If it's sci-Fi as in Wildspace, then make your bad guys some faction of Githyanki. I know you said you were planning a human, but Gith are pretty easily made into villain types, especially if you want someone who's not totally Evil (you can play up the fact that everything they do, they do in the name of stopping Mind Flayers, etc)
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
In my mind; usually the "truly compelling" antagonists in most stories have some ideology or point that they can argue for, and be entirely compelling. You can understand the "why" of what they are doing, even if you are against it or you are at cross-purposes to it. Or to put it another way: a truly compelling villain isn't the villain in their own story; they are actually the hero. Some good examples:
- Thanos (Marvel Cinematic universe) - He's identified a real problem; overcrowding and limited resources. Indeed; he's witnessed it destroy his civilization... THe only prolbme is: his solution is monstrous; kill half of everyone by lottery.
- Grand Admiral Thrawn (Star Wars Expanded Universe) - He's a charismatic, intelligent, well-spoken "officer and gentleman"; who genuinely believes that the law and order of The Empire is infinitely superior, warts and all, to any other option of the factions to rule the galaxy. His men follow and obey not out of fear, but out of loyalty; they know his plans succeed, and he won't throw away their lives for no purpose. He just happens to be "playing for the wrong team" from the perspective of our heroes.
- Magneto (X-Men) - Magneto is the way he is; cold, bitter, and infinitely cynical of the prospect of peace between humans and mutants... because he's seen humanity at its worst. The excuse that individual people are good rings hollow to him, because, to quote First Class: "I've been at the mercy of men just following orders... never again." Magneto is compelling because: if you lived in the marvel universe, and you had the X-gene... would you have the strength of character to follow Professor X? Or... would some part of you want to join Magneto and his Brotherhood of Mutants?
- Dracula (Castlevania) - Dracula in Castlevania is a compelling villain because his anger at the humans of Wallachia is entirely justified; his wife gave her all to help them, the church burned her at teh stake, and not a single voice was raised to stop it; we can understand the why of what he's doing what he's doing... even if unleashing the forces of hell onto the innocent is entirely barbaric.
- Mao-Kwikowski Mercantile/Protogen Corporation (The Expanse) - This organization discovered something miraculous; real alien life; the things they could learn from it could unlock the secrets of... everything: human immortality, faster-than-light communication and travel, "to free us from these fragile bubbles of rock and air". So; it will conspire to start a war, slaughter the populations of colonies, assassinate those that get in the way; because compared to the alure of knowledge, that loss of life is "a rounding error".
- The Nietzscheans (Andromeda) - The people engineered "to be perfect" rebelled against the galactic government they'd served loyally for centuries because, try as they might, they couldn't reconcile a dilemma: The Systems Commonwealth was supposed to be the light of civilization; a bastion of enlightenment in the darkness of space... so: why would it negotiate a peace with The Magog; a species that makes the Xenomorphs from Alien look friendly; as close to pure evil as could exist? They eventually concluded; The Commonwealth was weak, decadent, made soft by too long with no real threats, easy prey for a more ruthless civilization and unable to defend itself... so they would "save" the galaxy instead.
Villains who do what they do simply "because they're evil" or "because they're insane" with no further explanation are alright; they have their place. Indeed: sometimes you need a good pitch-black uncomplicated villain to set the moral floor as it were, or to oppose a more anti-hero good guy. But those villains will always max out at "fascinating" and never "compelling"; they have no "why" besides "why not" or "because I can"; that's the sort of motivation for a "mosnter of the week" style villain, or a "end of the world scenario": not one that you can sit across a table from and argue with.
As others have observed: an asset you have is that this is a group. WHich means that the individual members might differ in their motivations and goals; they might share the same overall mission, but have different reasoning for why they are going about it. Or they might even have a traitor or two in their midst.
No, but the principle applies: To mine this unobtanium, all these na'vi need to move somewhere else. Hell, we even tried to pay them good space dollars for the land their stupid tree is on, but they just won't listen to reason. Grow a new tree - a nicer one, even. With all this money, they could get one with cable and wifi. But nooooo.
It's not about trees or hyperspace express lanes. It's about a credible conflict of interest - in the absense of quantifiable evil.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.