In my campaign that I'm currently running, I have a half elf and a half orc. We are trying to rebuild characters using the 2024 rulebook, but I don't see any way to make half species. I could have sworn I heard there was going to be a way to do this with any species, with you just picking one species' special abilities, but I cannot find this anywhere in the new PHB's rules or the Beyond character builder. Are half species just completely gone now???
The way half species work in 2024 is that you can be a half species story-wise, but you would choose one of the parent species to use the stats for, making the whole idea a little less, how shall I say it... eugenics-adjacent?
The way half species work in 2024 is that you can be a half species story-wise, but you would choose one of the parent species to use the stats for, making the whole idea a little less, how shall I say it... eugenics-adjacent?
That was in the playtest, but it doesn’t actually exist in The published book.
The existing half races are still fully usable with the 2024 ruleset.
It does stink that they went the route they went, but since you can just use the 2014 half races anyway, I'm not really going to complain.
I guess my issue is mainly old-school lore-based. I don't mind the different playable races that have been added over the years, but orcs??? Seriously, this feels like a bridge too far. Before the Warcraft phenomenon, orcs were always the next-to-mindless minion type bad guys and it feels like this is almost D&D caving to Warcraft/WoW (and its popularity). I still see them in the Tolkien-esque fashion, the way they were back in the AD&D days, etc.: a race of monsters, that while not quite as culturally developed as some of the higher-races such as dwarves, elves or humans, were well suited as rivals and opponents to them.
In the end, its up to the DM, as to what they will allow, but it still feels wrong to me, that half-elves (for the love of all that's holy, Elrond was known as Elrond Halfelven!) are out, half orcs are out but drow are in (yes, I know, thanks to Mr. Salvatore and Drizzt, we learned that not all are deceitful, conniving and blood thirsty fanatics, but the Lolth worshippers who make up the majority are) and full orcs are in. I still hearken back to the early versions of the DM's guide where Gygax and Arneson cautioned that playing monster races could be acceptable but it should also be difficult.
Bleh and now I sound like a curmudgeon complaining about today vs the good old days...
The way half species work in 2024 is that you can be a half species story-wise, but you would choose one of the parent species to use the stats for, making the whole idea a little less, how shall I say it... eugenics-adjacent?
The old way was "here's your species (half-elf, half-orc, whatever), and you get treated (mechanically) like you would with any other species, but you put "half" in front of your name". The new way was (we've yet to see if it will survive or not) "you get to pick which species for what you think is best in terms of aesthetics, then you get to pick which set of species abilities you think is best and ultimately create a new custom species".
I mean, to me, the latter smacks a tiny little bit more of eugenics than the former. It doesn't really bother me because I don't really associate that with eugenics and I don't think there is any ideology being pushed with it, but if I had to say which is closest, it'd be the "new" way.
Personally, I'm content with the option being gone. It doesn't bring anything of mechanical worth (it's just saying to do what we can already do - take a choice, then reskin it as what we actually want) and just takes up page space that could have been used for something that needed to be playtested (and therefore actually worth it).
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The way half species work in 2024 is that you can be a half species story-wise, but you would choose one of the parent species to use the stats for, making the whole idea a little less, how shall I say it... eugenics-adjacent?
The old way was "here's your species (half-elf, half-orc, whatever), and you get treated (mechanically) like you would with any other species, but you put "half" in front of your name". The new way was (we've yet to see if it will survive or not) "you get to pick which species for what you think is best in terms of aesthetics, then you get to pick which set of species abilities you think is best and ultimately create a new custom species".
I mean, to me, the latter smacks a tiny little bit more of eugenics than the former. It doesn't really bother me because I don't really associate that with eugenics and I don't think there is any ideology being pushed with it, but if I had to say which is closest, it'd be the "new" way.
Personally, I'm content with the option being gone. It doesn't bring anything of mechanical worth (it's just saying to do what we can already do - take a choice, then reskin it as what we actually want) and just takes up page space that could have been used for something that needed to be playtested (and therefore actually worth it).
The way half species work in 2024 is that you can be a half species story-wise, but you would choose one of the parent species to use the stats for, making the whole idea a little less, how shall I say it... eugenics-adjacent?
These are fictional characters though (so 'engineered' no matter what method is used) and character creation is usually player choice driven. I suppose that couple be considered 'eugenics' but it is not like any of that involved any sort of conscious in character decisions on the part of PC's or NPC's to cause the character to end up as they do (except possibly class and background but even those could have been outside the control of the resultant PC )
Yeah, I don't have an issue with it because I don't feel like that's an intended parallel, nor do I feel that it particularly resembles it. It's just a game where we're trying to make the characters we want. It's just if I had to say which one resembles it the most, I'd say the newer form. It's just not really a problem either way, to my view. It's not like Star Frontiers where it's pushing the objectionable ideology.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The existing half races are still fully usable with the 2024 ruleset.
It does stink that they went the route they went, but since you can just use the 2014 half races anyway, I'm not really going to complain.
I guess my issue is mainly old-school lore-based. I don't mind the different playable races that have been added over the years, but orcs??? Seriously, this feels like a bridge too far. Before the Warcraft phenomenon, orcs were always the next-to-mindless minion type bad guys and it feels like this is almost D&D caving to Warcraft/WoW (and its popularity). I still see them in the Tolkien-esque fashion, the way they were back in the AD&D days, etc.: a race of monsters, that while not quite as culturally developed as some of the higher-races such as dwarves, elves or humans, were well suited as rivals and opponents to them.
In the end, its up to the DM, as to what they will allow, but it still feels wrong to me, that half-elves (for the love of all that's holy, Elrond was known as Elrond Halfelven!) are out, half orcs are out but drow are in (yes, I know, thanks to Mr. Salvatore and Drizzt, we learned that not all are deceitful, conniving and blood thirsty fanatics, but the Lolth worshippers who make up the majority are) and full orcs are in. I still hearken back to the early versions of the DM's guide where Gygax and Arneson cautioned that playing monster races could be acceptable but it should also be difficult.
Bleh and now I sound like a curmudgeon complaining about today vs the good old days...
The orcs were never mindless in Tolkien, remember that evil is not mindless, nor is serving evil. For an interesting look at an "evil" culture, look at Nazi Germany or current Russia or North Korea, or for a more subtle one, modern US capitalism. Almost everyone in those cultures (maybe barring North Korea) would say they are in the service of good, even when they do horrible things. Orcs in Tolkien are no different; they felt betrayed by the Valar/were enslaved by Morgoth depending on whether you go with the "slimes from the earth" or the corrupted Avari/Human approach -- Tolkien leaves this bit ambiguous and various sources have various versions of the origin of the orcs. None of them mindless.
We'll see if they've been moved, but yes, I believe they should have been in the Player's Handbook since they're an option for...players...not Dungeon Masters.
We'll see they're in the DMG.m for some odd reason.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
We'll see if they've been moved, but yes, I believe they should have been in the Player's Handbook since they're an option for...players...not Dungeon Masters.
We'll see they're in the DMG.m for some odd reason.
It's a question that's ultimately fielded by the dungeon master if any particular pairing is viable in-setting; for instance I know you can just handwave it as "fantasy", but as a personal take I just can't reconcile an egg-laying race being reproductively compatible with a live-birthing one. The options in the PHB are pretty much always available for players, but in this case they need an express greenlight from the DM, so it's more a world-building tool than a general character design one.
Because the entire concept of half-species is way to socially charged to create them, and the backlash against the whole “create it any way you want, but just use the rules from 1 species” concept was so heated that it was just safer to omit them entirely and pretend they never existed and ignore anyone who notices.
Basically you fluff it. You pick human, elf or orc depending on what abilities you prefer, and you flavor as a second parent of <other>
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
So Tanis Half-Elven is going to be retconned to be human? WTH is wrong with WOTC? Half-elves and Half-orcs have been here since I started plating in the 1st Edition days. Some things just need to be left alone. Like trying to change drow to be light-purple skinned and not the jet-black, eboned skinned elves that they are.
In my campaign that I'm currently running, I have a half elf and a half orc. We are trying to rebuild characters using the 2024 rulebook, but I don't see any way to make half species. I could have sworn I heard there was going to be a way to do this with any species, with you just picking one species' special abilities, but I cannot find this anywhere in the new PHB's rules or the Beyond character builder. Are half species just completely gone now???
There is no half species rules in the new 2024 book. There was some rules in the UA but they didn't get published.
Build a custom species of the old rule books, is probably your best option.
There might be some rules in the new DMG but thats months away. It looks like the UA half-species rules didnt make it into the 2024 PHB.
I would would either just use the UA idea of half-species or just choose the half-elf or half-orc from the 2014 PHB.
The existing half races are still fully usable with the 2024 ruleset.
It does stink that they went the route they went, but since you can just use the 2014 half races anyway, I'm not really going to complain.
The way half species work in 2024 is that you can be a half species story-wise, but you would choose one of the parent species to use the stats for, making the whole idea a little less, how shall I say it... eugenics-adjacent?
That was in the playtest, but it doesn’t actually exist in The published book.
I guess my issue is mainly old-school lore-based. I don't mind the different playable races that have been added over the years, but orcs??? Seriously, this feels like a bridge too far. Before the Warcraft phenomenon, orcs were always the next-to-mindless minion type bad guys and it feels like this is almost D&D caving to Warcraft/WoW (and its popularity). I still see them in the Tolkien-esque fashion, the way they were back in the AD&D days, etc.: a race of monsters, that while not quite as culturally developed as some of the higher-races such as dwarves, elves or humans, were well suited as rivals and opponents to them.
In the end, its up to the DM, as to what they will allow, but it still feels wrong to me, that half-elves (for the love of all that's holy, Elrond was known as Elrond Halfelven!) are out, half orcs are out but drow are in (yes, I know, thanks to Mr. Salvatore and Drizzt, we learned that not all are deceitful, conniving and blood thirsty fanatics, but the Lolth worshippers who make up the majority are) and full orcs are in. I still hearken back to the early versions of the DM's guide where Gygax and Arneson cautioned that playing monster races could be acceptable but it should also be difficult.
Bleh and now I sound like a curmudgeon complaining about today vs the good old days...
I wonder why that descision was made
The old way was "here's your species (half-elf, half-orc, whatever), and you get treated (mechanically) like you would with any other species, but you put "half" in front of your name". The new way was (we've yet to see if it will survive or not) "you get to pick which species for what you think is best in terms of aesthetics, then you get to pick which set of species abilities you think is best and ultimately create a new custom species".
I mean, to me, the latter smacks a tiny little bit more of eugenics than the former. It doesn't really bother me because I don't really associate that with eugenics and I don't think there is any ideology being pushed with it, but if I had to say which is closest, it'd be the "new" way.
Personally, I'm content with the option being gone. It doesn't bring anything of mechanical worth (it's just saying to do what we can already do - take a choice, then reskin it as what we actually want) and just takes up page space that could have been used for something that needed to be playtested (and therefore actually worth it).
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
These are fictional characters though (so 'engineered' no matter what method is used) and character creation is usually player choice driven. I suppose that couple be considered 'eugenics' but it is not like any of that involved any sort of conscious in character decisions on the part of PC's or NPC's to cause the character to end up as they do (except possibly class and background but even those could have been outside the control of the resultant PC )
Yeah, I don't have an issue with it because I don't feel like that's an intended parallel, nor do I feel that it particularly resembles it. It's just a game where we're trying to make the characters we want. It's just if I had to say which one resembles it the most, I'd say the newer form. It's just not really a problem either way, to my view. It's not like Star Frontiers where it's pushing the objectionable ideology.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The orcs were never mindless in Tolkien, remember that evil is not mindless, nor is serving evil. For an interesting look at an "evil" culture, look at Nazi Germany or current Russia or North Korea, or for a more subtle one, modern US capitalism. Almost everyone in those cultures (maybe barring North Korea) would say they are in the service of good, even when they do horrible things. Orcs in Tolkien are no different; they felt betrayed by the Valar/were enslaved by Morgoth depending on whether you go with the "slimes from the earth" or the corrupted Avari/Human approach -- Tolkien leaves this bit ambiguous and various sources have various versions of the origin of the orcs. None of them mindless.
Half-Species were surly moved to the Dungeon Master Guide, even though i firmly believe it belong in the Player's Handbook instead.
We'll see if they've been moved, but yes, I believe they should have been in the Player's Handbook since they're an option for...players...not Dungeon Masters.
We'll see they're in the DMG.m for some odd reason.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It's a question that's ultimately fielded by the dungeon master if any particular pairing is viable in-setting; for instance I know you can just handwave it as "fantasy", but as a personal take I just can't reconcile an egg-laying race being reproductively compatible with a live-birthing one. The options in the PHB are pretty much always available for players, but in this case they need an express greenlight from the DM, so it's more a world-building tool than a general character design one.
Because the entire concept of half-species is way to socially charged to create them, and the backlash against the whole “create it any way you want, but just use the rules from 1 species” concept was so heated that it was just safer to omit them entirely and pretend they never existed and ignore anyone who notices.
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I would love this, but I really don't see it happening because of the supposed controversy surrounding half races.
But we'll see. I got my fingers crossed they do exactly what you're feeling.
Basically you fluff it. You pick human, elf or orc depending on what abilities you prefer, and you flavor as a second parent of <other>
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
So Tanis Half-Elven is going to be retconned to be human? WTH is wrong with WOTC? Half-elves and Half-orcs have been here since I started plating in the 1st Edition days. Some things just need to be left alone. Like trying to change drow to be light-purple skinned and not the jet-black, eboned skinned elves that they are.