So I got some free time now! Finally got stressed out enough about what was going on in a game that I brought my issues up and got told by the DM to just leave. And I did.
Stress is unhealthy, you shouldn't put yourself in a game or around people that generate stress.
But what was stresssing me out is this character that joined up after we started. As soon as they join, I got my first red flag when I asked what their race and class was. Standard stuff, right?"
"Roll Insight."
What? I explained that I'm not trying to gain anything in character, I need to know so we can co-ordinate as a team and know what our roles are. Again, I got shot down. They had no intention of sharing their character. Now this isn't a situation where a PC was playing something secret for the DM, I'm sure if that was a thing they would have planned it out a bit better. This was a player refusing to share even what their character looked like without a roll being done.
I eventually got out of them that they were playing a Cleric. And then watched as the 'Cleric' started to stealth around to reach the next mission point far ahead of us. Things went on, the Player themselves were very much intent on being on the forefront of any roleplay, but that was a minor thing for me. Next issue came in when it came to combat.
I quickly learned two things: Apparently, they are wearing a magical DRESS that has AC values the same as heavy armor. Yep. That was already groan worthy, it got an extra layer of cringe when they reviealed later that their character could also block swords with their Fingers!
Now, I don't mind anime inspired characters. But only when the rest of the party was in on the cheeseyness. This was just pure Animu-cringe.
The second thing that happened? They started casting spells like firebolt. Spells that no cleric (or elf as far as I know) would really know. This was followed up later by similar spells like Charm Person. All the while, it only grew more and more stressful.
Then they hit for 9 damage with an unarmed attack.
At that point, I was done. I brought up all my complaints and stressed how much it was just killing the game for me. Because all I can think of when I see things like this is that this player is getting a ton of DM Fiats for what seems like little reason. Especially when I'm getting told that now, just for this character, they can use Trance to cut a Long Rest in half. Aren't they just so special and loved!
For my efforts, I got told to leave.
All I wanted was just some mechanical explenation for what had occured. Some damn answers so I could wrap my head around what was going on. It's made worse by them saying that they Min-Maxed their character. What part of Min-Maxing involves twisting rules and getting the DM to give you gimmy favors while hiding your sheet like others knowing will ruin the game.
hmmm as a thought exercise, and ignoring some gross over powered homebrew options, it seems a doable build even if the player was a bit of a (expletive deleted) about it, asking you to roll dice to see what you notice is a bit much, after all you need to know whether you were talking to a human, a dragonborn or a flumph, or if they are openly carrying 10 peoples worth of weapons etc.
As for info you did get/observe...
The said they were playing a cleric so based on going stealth and charm person I'd say Trickery domain cleric possibly with criminal or urchin background for stealth proficiency
The Fire Bolt thing could be a High Elf for race or Variant Human with magic Initiate or spell sniper
They had a "dress" with high AC value, not inconceivable if it was a suit of half plate with the glamoured effect (usually only found on light armour but giving benefit of the doubt and DM rolling with it) other option would be a dip into warlock to get mask of many faces for disguise self at will.
Blocking Swords with fingers...that's a tough one, again benefit of the doubt this is their role playing having monk training and a sword didn't beat their AC.
Hitting in melee with unarmed strike for 9pts of damage, another tough one without having one level of monk and +5 Dex Bonus I'd have to assume they had the Tavern Brawler feat and a +5 Str bonus and just rolled max damage consistently if it happened more than once.
Taking all that into consideration It would have to be a level 4-8 build depending on starting race and would mean they had to start off with a rare magical item, have 2-3 character classes and ability scores of 13+ in 2-3 ability scores and 20 in at least one...to be honest...I've seen worse, especially in the "anime" Homebrew department.
I'm sorry you encountered such a toxic player, but I'm mostly confused about a PC asking another PC for a skill check. DM should have stopped them right there. I've been known to conceal things from other players for RP aspects, but when asked who/what I am, I describe how I look and what I'm carrying and let them speculate on the rest.
That guys was a jerk and the DM was a jerk for not stopping it. You should have left without asking for an explanation. Just say, you forgot it was your night to wash the cat.
I read threads like this and remember how hard it was to find proper gamers in the 1990s. It's so much easier now. I've been in your situation before, and used social media to build an entirely different group. I think about half of the current group has now bee gaming with one another since 2007-2008.
If you're without an ongoing group, I have found that Adventurers League is a great way to meet other gamers.
I have seen this stuff a lot when a DM brings in a wife or girlfriend who is kinda interested but not really so the DM makes a really great character bending the rules so they will have fun and want to come back.
(Or husband, boyfriends, people they wanted to impress)
Roll insight for an OOC ask? That is kind of... strange.
Also by what justification do you roll insight for race? Isn't race kind of obvious by definition in D&D? I mean everyone can see that you are an elf, based on skin coloring, pointed ears, height/build, and so on.
Class... It is not totally unreasonable to keep that a secret if that is what is done at the table. But if everyone knows each other's class it's kind of awkward to have just one character treated a different way.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Easiest explanation is that they were lying about being a Cleric for whatever goofy reason they had for lying about their race (when you find out someday from an equally exasperated third party that they were playing a disguised Drow, think fondly of this moment).
Sorry you had to deal with that. DMs who pull crap like that are wretched.
hmmm as a thought exercise, and ignoring some gross over powered homebrew options, it seems a doable build even if the player was a bit of a (expletive deleted) about it, asking you to roll dice to see what you notice is a bit much, after all you need to know whether you were talking to a human, a dragonborn or a flumph, or if they are openly carrying 10 peoples worth of weapons etc.
As for info you did get/observe...
The said they were playing a cleric so based on going stealth and charm person I'd say Trickery domain cleric possibly with criminal or urchin background for stealth proficiency
The Fire Bolt thing could be a High Elf for race or Variant Human with magic Initiate or spell sniper
They had a "dress" with high AC value, not inconceivable if it was a suit of half plate with the glamoured effect (usually only found on light armour but giving benefit of the doubt and DM rolling with it) other option would be a dip into warlock to get mask of many faces for disguise self at will.
Blocking Swords with fingers...that's a tough one, again benefit of the doubt this is their role playing having monk training and a sword didn't beat their AC.
Hitting in melee with unarmed strike for 9pts of damage, another tough one without having one level of monk and +5 Dex Bonus I'd have to assume they had the Tavern Brawler feat and a +5 Str bonus and just rolled max damage consistently if it happened more than once.
Taking all that into consideration It would have to be a level 4-8 build depending on starting race and would mean they had to start off with a rare magical item, have 2-3 character classes and ability scores of 13+ in 2-3 ability scores and 20 in at least one...to be honest...I've seen worse, especially in the "anime" Homebrew department.
If we were that late level, I would have assumed that as well. But we were level 2.
And thanks to everyone for the support. I wish my memory was better so I could make this a RPGHorrorStories entry, but I'm afraid that I have a hard time grasping details and low points. I shared everything that stuck out with me though.
I'm goin to look into Adventure League games, though with my evening work schedule, I'm thinking it'll be hard to find an iRL game to attend. That's why I rely so much on Online games, even with having to do work arounds not having a physical PC in front of me. (One part phone, one part Xbox Browser) When I have a proper laptop again, I do want to try and find a more stable group to game with. If not try my hand at DMing.
Oh just remembered something else. The player would often have their character mutter things in Infernal on the regular.
Nothing they did, except maybe the 9 points of damage with an unarmed attack, is anything that can't be done at level 2 with some lucky dice rolls. Stealthing for a cleric can be achieved through backgrounds. Glamoured studded leather is a base AC 13 light armour. An elf with +2 Dex could easily have AC 16. If you rolled for stats it could be even higher. Even a standard leather armour could give you AC 17 at lvl 1 if you rolled good enough.
Elves also only need to trance for four hours instead of resting for eight, that's RAW straight out of the book. High elves also get a free wizard cantrip which explains the firebolt. Charm person is a domain spell for trickery clerics. Clerics also have inflict wounds which is a touch spell and that could explain the 9 points of unarmed damage and would just require the DM to describe the effect of the spell differently.
As Rob76 mentioned, the swordcatching could just be that the DM didn't roll high enough to beat the AC. A bit silly on how it was described but not anything OP or against the rules.
All in all, the only thing that is kind of weird is that the DM gave the player a glamoured armour at level 2. How are the rest of you for magic items? Besides that the only problem I see is a player who doesn't want to describe to you what their character looks like. :/ You did the right thing to step away from the game though. If this cause you stress, it's probably not worth it.
That guys was a jerk and the DM was a jerk for not stopping it. You should have left without asking for an explanation. Just say, you forgot it was your night to wash the cat.
Dogs on fire, gotta go bye...
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Nothing they did, except maybe the 9 points of damage with an unarmed attack, is anything that can't be done at level 2 with some lucky dice rolls. Stealthing for a cleric can be achieved through backgrounds. Glamoured studded leather is a base AC 13 light armour. An elf with +2 Dex could easily have AC 16. If you rolled for stats it could be even higher. Even a standard leather armour could give you AC 17 at lvl 1 if you rolled good enough.
Elves also only need to trance for four hours instead of resting for eight, that's RAW straight out of the book. High elves also get a free wizard cantrip which explains the firebolt. Charm person is a domain spell for trickery clerics. Clerics also have inflict wounds which is a touch spell and that could explain the 9 points of unarmed damage and would just require the DM to describe the effect of the spell differently.
As Rob76 mentioned, the swordcatching could just be that the DM didn't roll high enough to beat the AC. A bit silly on how it was described but not anything OP or against the rules.
All in all, the only thing that is kind of weird is that the DM gave the player a glamoured armour at level 2. How are the rest of you for magic items? Besides that the only problem I see is a player who doesn't want to describe to you what their character looks like. :/ You did the right thing to step away from the game though. If this cause you stress, it's probably not worth it.
Those are fair points, I just wish that it was told to me straight.
As for magic items, no one else started with any. I had a +1 warhammer from... There goes my memory again. I believe I had to buy it.
Those are fair points, I just wish that it was told to me straight.
As for magic items, no one else started with any. I had a +1 warhammer from... There goes my memory again. I believe I had to buy it.
Maybe it was just a stupidly re-flavored studded leather armour? Or the DM thought that since some of you had gotten hold of magic weapons, it wouldn't be unfair to let a new player also have one?
As a Player, you do not have the right to know anything about a character other than what you learn during play unless that information is granted you, for roleplay reasons, by the character's player or the DM.
From the sound of it, this character may be a changeling hexblade warlock / divine soul sorcerer.
High AC while wearing a dress = half plate plus Disguise Self at will.
Warlock means fire bolts, divine soul mean clerical spells.
Blocking swords with fingers could simply be either a Shield spell or a Shield of Faith spell re-flavored.
Currently, in Baldur's Gate, I am playing a changeling who is passing himself off as a tabaxi. He is a rogue/warlock and is pulling off similar tricks. He is actually a changeling who is passing himself off as a rakshasa who is trying to pass himself off as a tabaxi. The new Faceless background is wonderful at helping to fool npc's and pc's alike.
As long as the DM has approved the flavoring of a character, you, as a player, don't need to know how a character does what s/he does as log as the DM has ok'd it. Your character may have a right to be peeved at another character, but you, as a player, don't have that right if the DM's has allowed it.
Now if YOU were the DM, and the player was pulling this crap on you, well, in my case, that player would have to sit out all sessions until he had turned over a copy of his character to me.
So far, everything you have complained about can be explained away with class/race abilities and a DM who is allowing re-flavoring.
Instead of complaining, your character might start gathering information, dependent on your character's skills and abilities, andtry figuring out how the character does what he does. A detect magic spell can tell you a lot about what magic a character may be using. The use of a background like Faceless, Charlatan, or Criminal/Spy may complicate things on your part though.
In the case of my character, I got unlucky in that another player in the group was playign a real tabaxi and is startign to get suspicous at my LACK of tabaxi abilities, but he still hasn't figured out what I am. The fast pace of the campaign has be a factor in my favor and has worked against me at times.
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
As a Player, you do not have the right to know anything about a character other than what you learn during play unless that information is granted you, for roleplay reasons, by the character's player or the DM.
Right, but if they, as a player, ask another player what they are and that person wants to keep it a secret, there are ways to do that such as describing physical appearance and nothing else. A character DOES have the right to the information they would perceive by looking at another character. Demanding another player make a skill check is just a dick move. and if the player is being a jerkface, why would anyone invest the time into unraveling the mystery of their character? And I say this as a player that consistantly keeps things from other players.
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So I got some free time now! Finally got stressed out enough about what was going on in a game that I brought my issues up and got told by the DM to just leave. And I did.
Stress is unhealthy, you shouldn't put yourself in a game or around people that generate stress.
But what was stresssing me out is this character that joined up after we started. As soon as they join, I got my first red flag when I asked what their race and class was. Standard stuff, right?"
"Roll Insight."
What? I explained that I'm not trying to gain anything in character, I need to know so we can co-ordinate as a team and know what our roles are. Again, I got shot down. They had no intention of sharing their character. Now this isn't a situation where a PC was playing something secret for the DM, I'm sure if that was a thing they would have planned it out a bit better. This was a player refusing to share even what their character looked like without a roll being done.
I eventually got out of them that they were playing a Cleric. And then watched as the 'Cleric' started to stealth around to reach the next mission point far ahead of us. Things went on, the Player themselves were very much intent on being on the forefront of any roleplay, but that was a minor thing for me. Next issue came in when it came to combat.
I quickly learned two things: Apparently, they are wearing a magical DRESS that has AC values the same as heavy armor. Yep. That was already groan worthy, it got an extra layer of cringe when they reviealed later that their character could also block swords with their Fingers!
Now, I don't mind anime inspired characters. But only when the rest of the party was in on the cheeseyness. This was just pure Animu-cringe.
The second thing that happened? They started casting spells like firebolt. Spells that no cleric (or elf as far as I know) would really know. This was followed up later by similar spells like Charm Person. All the while, it only grew more and more stressful.
Then they hit for 9 damage with an unarmed attack.
At that point, I was done. I brought up all my complaints and stressed how much it was just killing the game for me. Because all I can think of when I see things like this is that this player is getting a ton of DM Fiats for what seems like little reason. Especially when I'm getting told that now, just for this character, they can use Trance to cut a Long Rest in half. Aren't they just so special and loved!
For my efforts, I got told to leave.
All I wanted was just some mechanical explenation for what had occured. Some damn answers so I could wrap my head around what was going on. It's made worse by them saying that they Min-Maxed their character. What part of Min-Maxing involves twisting rules and getting the DM to give you gimmy favors while hiding your sheet like others knowing will ruin the game.
I just want to play DnD.
Sounds awful, I feel for you. I hope you are able to get a proper explanation sometime.
Just a note: bringing up complaints during the game is usually a bad call. Approach the DM in private after the session.
It was afterwards and in a text chat. But you aren't wrong. I should have PM'd them.
hmmm as a thought exercise, and ignoring some gross over powered homebrew options, it seems a doable build even if the player was a bit of a (expletive deleted) about it, asking you to roll dice to see what you notice is a bit much, after all you need to know whether you were talking to a human, a dragonborn or a flumph, or if they are openly carrying 10 peoples worth of weapons etc.
As for info you did get/observe...
The said they were playing a cleric so based on going stealth and charm person I'd say Trickery domain cleric possibly with criminal or urchin background for stealth proficiency
The Fire Bolt thing could be a High Elf for race or Variant Human with magic Initiate or spell sniper
They had a "dress" with high AC value, not inconceivable if it was a suit of half plate with the glamoured effect (usually only found on light armour but giving benefit of the doubt and DM rolling with it) other option would be a dip into warlock to get mask of many faces for disguise self at will.
Blocking Swords with fingers...that's a tough one, again benefit of the doubt this is their role playing having monk training and a sword didn't beat their AC.
Hitting in melee with unarmed strike for 9pts of damage, another tough one without having one level of monk and +5 Dex Bonus I'd have to assume they had the Tavern Brawler feat and a +5 Str bonus and just rolled max damage consistently if it happened more than once.
Taking all that into consideration It would have to be a level 4-8 build depending on starting race and would mean they had to start off with a rare magical item, have 2-3 character classes and ability scores of 13+ in 2-3 ability scores and 20 in at least one...to be honest...I've seen worse, especially in the "anime" Homebrew department.
I'm sorry you encountered such a toxic player, but I'm mostly confused about a PC asking another PC for a skill check. DM should have stopped them right there. I've been known to conceal things from other players for RP aspects, but when asked who/what I am, I describe how I look and what I'm carrying and let them speculate on the rest.
That guy is a jerk. Sorry you had to play with him.
That guys was a jerk and the DM was a jerk for not stopping it. You should have left without asking for an explanation. Just say, you forgot it was your night to wash the cat.
I read threads like this and remember how hard it was to find proper gamers in the 1990s. It's so much easier now. I've been in your situation before, and used social media to build an entirely different group. I think about half of the current group has now bee gaming with one another since 2007-2008.
If you're without an ongoing group, I have found that Adventurers League is a great way to meet other gamers.
Hrm.... if you ever encounter a char like that in the future....
be like: I have a passive insight. You need to roll deception to beat that before I have to roll the insight.
Blank
I have seen this stuff a lot when a DM brings in a wife or girlfriend who is kinda interested but not really so the DM makes a really great character bending the rules so they will have fun and want to come back.
(Or husband, boyfriends, people they wanted to impress)
Roll insight for an OOC ask? That is kind of... strange.
Also by what justification do you roll insight for race? Isn't race kind of obvious by definition in D&D? I mean everyone can see that you are an elf, based on skin coloring, pointed ears, height/build, and so on.
Class... It is not totally unreasonable to keep that a secret if that is what is done at the table. But if everyone knows each other's class it's kind of awkward to have just one character treated a different way.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Right?!? Should have told them to make a Dex save and punched them. Lol
But not all races are that obvious. Aasimar, Kalastar, Changlings, and some Half-elves can all pass for humans, for example.
Easiest explanation is that they were lying about being a Cleric for whatever goofy reason they had for lying about their race (when you find out someday from an equally exasperated third party that they were playing a disguised Drow, think fondly of this moment).
Sorry you had to deal with that. DMs who pull crap like that are wretched.
If we were that late level, I would have assumed that as well. But we were level 2.
And thanks to everyone for the support. I wish my memory was better so I could make this a RPGHorrorStories entry, but I'm afraid that I have a hard time grasping details and low points. I shared everything that stuck out with me though.
I'm goin to look into Adventure League games, though with my evening work schedule, I'm thinking it'll be hard to find an iRL game to attend. That's why I rely so much on Online games, even with having to do work arounds not having a physical PC in front of me. (One part phone, one part Xbox Browser) When I have a proper laptop again, I do want to try and find a more stable group to game with. If not try my hand at DMing.
Oh just remembered something else. The player would often have their character mutter things in Infernal on the regular.
@MarkMonfang:
Nothing they did, except maybe the 9 points of damage with an unarmed attack, is anything that can't be done at level 2 with some lucky dice rolls. Stealthing for a cleric can be achieved through backgrounds. Glamoured studded leather is a base AC 13 light armour. An elf with +2 Dex could easily have AC 16. If you rolled for stats it could be even higher. Even a standard leather armour could give you AC 17 at lvl 1 if you rolled good enough.
Elves also only need to trance for four hours instead of resting for eight, that's RAW straight out of the book. High elves also get a free wizard cantrip which explains the firebolt. Charm person is a domain spell for trickery clerics. Clerics also have inflict wounds which is a touch spell and that could explain the 9 points of unarmed damage and would just require the DM to describe the effect of the spell differently.
As Rob76 mentioned, the swordcatching could just be that the DM didn't roll high enough to beat the AC. A bit silly on how it was described but not anything OP or against the rules.
All in all, the only thing that is kind of weird is that the DM gave the player a glamoured armour at level 2. How are the rest of you for magic items? Besides that the only problem I see is a player who doesn't want to describe to you what their character looks like. :/ You did the right thing to step away from the game though. If this cause you stress, it's probably not worth it.
Dogs on fire, gotta go bye...
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Those are fair points, I just wish that it was told to me straight.
As for magic items, no one else started with any. I had a +1 warhammer from... There goes my memory again. I believe I had to buy it.
Maybe it was just a stupidly re-flavored studded leather armour? Or the DM thought that since some of you had gotten hold of magic weapons, it wouldn't be unfair to let a new player also have one?
Either way, not worth getting stressed over.
As a Player, you do not have the right to know anything about a character other than what you learn during play unless that information is granted you, for roleplay reasons, by the character's player or the DM.
From the sound of it, this character may be a changeling hexblade warlock / divine soul sorcerer.
High AC while wearing a dress = half plate plus Disguise Self at will.
Warlock means fire bolts, divine soul mean clerical spells.
Blocking swords with fingers could simply be either a Shield spell or a Shield of Faith spell re-flavored.
Currently, in Baldur's Gate, I am playing a changeling who is passing himself off as a tabaxi. He is a rogue/warlock and is pulling off similar tricks. He is actually a changeling who is passing himself off as a rakshasa who is trying to pass himself off as a tabaxi. The new Faceless background is wonderful at helping to fool npc's and pc's alike.
As long as the DM has approved the flavoring of a character, you, as a player, don't need to know how a character does what s/he does as log as the DM has ok'd it. Your character may have a right to be peeved at another character, but you, as a player, don't have that right if the DM's has allowed it.
Now if YOU were the DM, and the player was pulling this crap on you, well, in my case, that player would have to sit out all sessions until he had turned over a copy of his character to me.
So far, everything you have complained about can be explained away with class/race abilities and a DM who is allowing re-flavoring.
Instead of complaining, your character might start gathering information, dependent on your character's skills and abilities, andtry figuring out how the character does what he does. A detect magic spell can tell you a lot about what magic a character may be using. The use of a background like Faceless, Charlatan, or Criminal/Spy may complicate things on your part though.
In the case of my character, I got unlucky in that another player in the group was playign a real tabaxi and is startign to get suspicous at my LACK of tabaxi abilities, but he still hasn't figured out what I am. The fast pace of the campaign has be a factor in my favor and has worked against me at times.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Right, but if they, as a player, ask another player what they are and that person wants to keep it a secret, there are ways to do that such as describing physical appearance and nothing else. A character DOES have the right to the information they would perceive by looking at another character. Demanding another player make a skill check is just a dick move. and if the player is being a jerkface, why would anyone invest the time into unraveling the mystery of their character? And I say this as a player that consistantly keeps things from other players.