So, I’m a new player, and will be playing in my first campaign sometime in the near future. I’m really excited, and rolled up some characters to pass the time until then and playing some homebrewed adventures courtesy of our DM. My dilemma is I’ve made two characters that I’ve fallen completely in love with, and am unsure which I should play long term since both characters really appeal to me. One is a Battlemaster Fighter and the other is an Oath of Vengeance Paladin. My hope is that people with more experience than I have with DnD could give some pros and cons of both, and which, if either, they found to be more enjoyable long term.
My personal advice, play a different character your first time out. You are likely to make mistakes, and your character might possibly die. That sucks when you really really love the character a lot. So I usually recommend a character one is less in love with for their first one so you can learn the ropes before diving into a character you love.
IamSposta makes an important consideration. Like your first car, start with a "beater" you don't mind getting beat up or killed on Day 1 before jumping into your trick ride. It does happen, especially in groups where a hand up or in game coaching from the table isn't provided. Another thing you could do is talk to the GM and/or another player in the group to see which of your characters would fit in best with the tone and style of the table. You present options, and all the real feedback you'd get here are posters telling you which one sounds cooler and would welcome in their game. We don't know the game you play in and every game is a little different, so with "what should I do?" questions like these I always say, "talk to your table."
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
The rules for this game are extensive. Your first character will never be 'maximized'. I agree that your first should be entirely based on what feels good, and expect him to be weaker than other characters. Accept he will die.
If you like the game, then invest more time and interest in your second character.
I guess I am the voice of dissent here, but I would say to ALWAYS play a character you love, if you have that chance. Yes, they might be killed and No, they will not be maximized, but I don't think you should let that stop you. You are investing you time and creativity and that should be in something you will enjoy playing.
That said, you should definitely talk to your DM and the other players. As MidnightPlat said this will help you find which character is the best fit. It can also help you build backstory and provide links to other members of your party.
As far as game mechanics and character function are concerned, with either a fighter or a paladin, you will probably be swinging a weapon a lot. You will tend to be up front, engaging foes and your most frequent actions in combat will be things like "I swing at the goblin nearest me." At least this will be true in the beginning. As you progress you will gain more options and develop a better idea of how to use them.
Here is where the main difference comes into play. If you opt for the Battle Master, you will have access to more Ability Score improvements or more Feats, if your DM is using that rule. You will also have a list of Battle Maneuvers. The Paladin, on the other hand will have access to spells and the abilities granted by your Oath of Vengeance. Both classes get an extra attack at 5th level and both have a d10 hit points, so no difference there.
Personally, I have never played a Battle Master and my Paladin was Oath of the Ancients. So, IF I were choosing between you character, I would probably lean towards the paladin. But that doesn’t matter. What matters is that YOU have a character you enjoy and who you will want to continue playing. Also, one you can look back on years later and remember fondly. Most of all, I hope your first campaign is one that you will thoroughly enjoy. Welcome to the ranks of table top RPG!
Also, about maximizing -- don't. Not don't worry about it... but rather, don't maximize. Focus instead on the personality, the character traits, the RP, and the sheer enjoyment of the game. I know some people like the book-keeping aspect. If that's you, OK, go ahead. But most people think they "have to" maximize to have fun, even if they don't care for book-keeping themselves. You don't have to. In fact, in my experience, except in very few cases, the quest to max-out actually lessens the game enjoyment for most players. Again, for some it is what they enjoy, but if that is not you, don't worry about max'ing out. Just enjoy and have fun.
The rules are such, and the balance is such, that any class, combined with any race, using any subclass, is playable and capable of being fun. You don't have to find the most perfect uber max-out combo to enjoy the game, or have a viable character who can contribute to the party.
Also, don't worry about the recommendations of "the internet" (he says as he makes a recommendation on the internet). The "conventional wisdom" of the internet is often completely off-base, because it makes generic assumptions about the gaming table that are perhaps true when averaged over all the gaming tables in the world, but are untrue of any one particular gaming table... and you don't play at the average gaming table summed over the whole world. You play at one table -- yours. And nobody on the internet knows what your table and friends are like.
If you want to max-out later... go for it. But for now, to start... just play and have fun. Pick a cool class you think sounds awesome and learn it level by level, bit by bit.
Of the choices you mentioned, if I had to pick, I'd pick Paladin. All other things being equal, either Paladin or Ranger is my go-to, with Paladin slightly on top. Why? Because I like being either a holy warrior or a nature-huntery type.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Thanks for all of the feedback everyone. I’m thankfully already fully aware of how much a threat that death is, especially at earlier levels when HP tends to be in the mid teens if you’re lucky. One lesson I try to keep close with this game is plan for your character’s death as well as their life. Oh, and I appreciate the warm welcome as well. I’m still kind of on the fence, but I’m definitely leaning towards my Paladin the more I think about it.
I guess I am the voice of dissent here, but I would say to ALWAYS play a character you love, if you have that chance. Yes, they might be killed and No, they will not be maximized, but I don't think you should let that stop you. You are investing you time and creativity and that should be in something you will enjoy playing.
That said, you should definitely talk to your DM and the other players. As MidnightPlat said this will help you find which character is the best fit. It can also help you build backstory and provide links to other members of your party.
I Second(third?) this. Talking to the group is always a good thing. If you are invested in your character then the emotional impact of your successes and failures come through better, if one of the two characters dies in the line of heroism you can come back better informed with the other.
One lesson I try to keep close with this game is plan for your character’s death as well as their life.
I always make up back-up characters before a campaign begins.
Just be careful... you might end up liking the back-up character better than the "real" one. ;)
This is something I struggle with a lot. We just had a pre-session/session 0 to test the waters for our next campaign and I'm already switching to a new character. I tend to come up with so many different character ideas that I can't decide which to stick to.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Yup. That's gonna happen a lot. There are so many possible character permutations, that you'll always have a bunch of characters that you want to play. I've been playing D&D off and on since 1981. I've played a lot of characters. But there are still hundreds and hundreds more that I want to play! Sometimes I wish I could just play seven days a week, as a different character each day. Trust me, that feeling never goes away.
All you can do is accept that you will (hopefully!) be playing D&D for a very long time, too. And eventually you will get the chance to play a bunch of those characters that you really want to play. Until then, have fun building their backstories, and let those backstories guide you in deciding which one is "ready" when it's time to start the next campaign. Also, it's good to have a few characters on deck when you're approaching a new campaign, because if you've got your heart set on a particular race and class, and then you find that three other people at the table want to play that exact same race/class combo, then it'll be helpful to have something different to offer. A well-rounded party is more likely to survive.
In terms of which type of character is "better" or "more enjoyable", that's such a personal decision that your best hope of having fun is to try each one and find what's best for you. Because that's what it's all about - Having Fun!
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Tayn of Darkwood. Lvl 10 human Life Cleric of Lathander. Retired.
Ikram Sahir ibn Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad, Second Son of the House of Ra'ad, Defender of the Burning Sands. Lvl 9 Brass Dragonborn Sorcerer + Greater Fire Elemental Devil.
Viktor Gavriil. Lvl 20 White Dragonborn Grave Cleric, of Kurgan the God of Death.
Oh yes, that is definitely the cause of this dilemma. I have six on paper, and even more I'm eager to roll up. The primary cause for this dilemma is because the DM has made it clear he plans on it going for a long time. As in, tier 3 almost guaranteed and tier 4 a definite possibility. So the idea of (possibly, barring a death) playing the same character for that long has led to me being a little indecisive. I was set on my OoV Paladin for a bit, but I figured it's always worth a second opinion. That said, I've more or less decided on it now, and I'm really excited to play him and watch his story play out, along with the rest of the party's characters.
Please allow me to clarify my earlier post. Of course you should play something you like. But just don’t pick one of your top two. Pick the 2nd runner up. You said that you made a bunch of characters and then narrowed it down to your two favorites. Pick your third favorite.
It's a tricky proposition. On one hand you may 'risk' losing a character you like, but then again, you should always love what you play.
I say risk it! You may suffer some heartbreak, but you will never experience true love, if you settle for second best ;)
If it is merely a technical choice between two 'equal' options, my favorite trick is a coin toss, it works every time.
The trick is not to care about what the coin shows, but what you feel when the coin does. For example if heads is for the paladin and tails for the fighter, and you are disappointed when tails shows, you know you want to play the paladin. If you are excited that tails shows, you know the fighter is what you wanted ;)
In the past when I have made a "back up character first" just in case it died or I messed it up, I have ended up having a ball with the back-up character and never getting around to my "main" character idea. Now, yes, I had fun either way, but if you have something you really want to do, just do it. There is no guarantee the chance will necessarily come up right away to play the best one later.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Funny you should say that, I used a similar trick, but used my d20 instead. I would have been excited to play either, it was just a matter of being pushed one way or the other. So now I'm playing my OoV Paladin, and can't wait to get things started with him.
One lesson I try to keep close with this game is plan for your character’s death as well as their life.
I always make up back-up characters before a campaign begins.
Just be careful... you might end up liking the back-up character better than the "real" one. ;)
This is something I struggle with a lot. We just had a pre-session/session 0 to test the waters for our next campaign and I'm already switching to a new character. I tend to come up with so many different character ideas that I can't decide which to stick to.
No joke. I went through 7 characters in a single campaign...****y 3 of them died.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
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So, I’m a new player, and will be playing in my first campaign sometime in the near future. I’m really excited, and rolled up some characters to pass the time until then and playing some homebrewed adventures courtesy of our DM. My dilemma is I’ve made two characters that I’ve fallen completely in love with, and am unsure which I should play long term since both characters really appeal to me. One is a Battlemaster Fighter and the other is an Oath of Vengeance Paladin. My hope is that people with more experience than I have with DnD could give some pros and cons of both, and which, if either, they found to be more enjoyable long term.
My personal advice, play a different character your first time out. You are likely to make mistakes, and your character might possibly die. That sucks when you really really love the character a lot. So I usually recommend a character one is less in love with for their first one so you can learn the ropes before diving into a character you love.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
IamSposta makes an important consideration. Like your first car, start with a "beater" you don't mind getting beat up or killed on Day 1 before jumping into your trick ride. It does happen, especially in groups where a hand up or in game coaching from the table isn't provided. Another thing you could do is talk to the GM and/or another player in the group to see which of your characters would fit in best with the tone and style of the table. You present options, and all the real feedback you'd get here are posters telling you which one sounds cooler and would welcome in their game. We don't know the game you play in and every game is a little different, so with "what should I do?" questions like these I always say, "talk to your table."
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
The rules for this game are extensive. Your first character will never be 'maximized'. I agree that your first should be entirely based on what feels good, and expect him to be weaker than other characters. Accept he will die.
If you like the game, then invest more time and interest in your second character.
I guess I am the voice of dissent here, but I would say to ALWAYS play a character you love, if you have that chance. Yes, they might be killed and No, they will not be maximized, but I don't think you should let that stop you. You are investing you time and creativity and that should be in something you will enjoy playing.
That said, you should definitely talk to your DM and the other players. As MidnightPlat said this will help you find which character is the best fit. It can also help you build backstory and provide links to other members of your party.
As far as game mechanics and character function are concerned, with either a fighter or a paladin, you will probably be swinging a weapon a lot. You will tend to be up front, engaging foes and your most frequent actions in combat will be things like "I swing at the goblin nearest me." At least this will be true in the beginning. As you progress you will gain more options and develop a better idea of how to use them.
Here is where the main difference comes into play. If you opt for the Battle Master, you will have access to more Ability Score improvements or more Feats, if your DM is using that rule. You will also have a list of Battle Maneuvers. The Paladin, on the other hand will have access to spells and the abilities granted by your Oath of Vengeance. Both classes get an extra attack at 5th level and both have a d10 hit points, so no difference there.
Personally, I have never played a Battle Master and my Paladin was Oath of the Ancients. So, IF I were choosing between you character, I would probably lean towards the paladin. But that doesn’t matter. What matters is that YOU have a character you enjoy and who you will want to continue playing. Also, one you can look back on years later and remember fondly. Most of all, I hope your first campaign is one that you will thoroughly enjoy.
Welcome to the ranks of table top RPG!
I agree with Eriniel. Play what you like.
Also, about maximizing -- don't. Not don't worry about it... but rather, don't maximize. Focus instead on the personality, the character traits, the RP, and the sheer enjoyment of the game. I know some people like the book-keeping aspect. If that's you, OK, go ahead. But most people think they "have to" maximize to have fun, even if they don't care for book-keeping themselves. You don't have to. In fact, in my experience, except in very few cases, the quest to max-out actually lessens the game enjoyment for most players. Again, for some it is what they enjoy, but if that is not you, don't worry about max'ing out. Just enjoy and have fun.
The rules are such, and the balance is such, that any class, combined with any race, using any subclass, is playable and capable of being fun. You don't have to find the most perfect uber max-out combo to enjoy the game, or have a viable character who can contribute to the party.
Also, don't worry about the recommendations of "the internet" (he says as he makes a recommendation on the internet). The "conventional wisdom" of the internet is often completely off-base, because it makes generic assumptions about the gaming table that are perhaps true when averaged over all the gaming tables in the world, but are untrue of any one particular gaming table... and you don't play at the average gaming table summed over the whole world. You play at one table -- yours. And nobody on the internet knows what your table and friends are like.
If you want to max-out later... go for it. But for now, to start... just play and have fun. Pick a cool class you think sounds awesome and learn it level by level, bit by bit.
Of the choices you mentioned, if I had to pick, I'd pick Paladin. All other things being equal, either Paladin or Ranger is my go-to, with Paladin slightly on top. Why? Because I like being either a holy warrior or a nature-huntery type.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Thanks for all of the feedback everyone. I’m thankfully already fully aware of how much a threat that death is, especially at earlier levels when HP tends to be in the mid teens if you’re lucky. One lesson I try to keep close with this game is plan for your character’s death as well as their life. Oh, and I appreciate the warm welcome as well. I’m still kind of on the fence, but I’m definitely leaning towards my Paladin the more I think about it.
I Second(third?) this. Talking to the group is always a good thing. If you are invested in your character then the emotional impact of your successes and failures come through better, if one of the two characters dies in the line of heroism you can come back better informed with the other.
I always make up back-up characters before a campaign begins.
Just be careful... you might end up liking the back-up character better than the "real" one. ;)
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
This is something I struggle with a lot. We just had a pre-session/session 0 to test the waters for our next campaign and I'm already switching to a new character. I tend to come up with so many different character ideas that I can't decide which to stick to.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
Yup. That's gonna happen a lot. There are so many possible character permutations, that you'll always have a bunch of characters that you want to play. I've been playing D&D off and on since 1981. I've played a lot of characters. But there are still hundreds and hundreds more that I want to play! Sometimes I wish I could just play seven days a week, as a different character each day. Trust me, that feeling never goes away.
All you can do is accept that you will (hopefully!) be playing D&D for a very long time, too. And eventually you will get the chance to play a bunch of those characters that you really want to play. Until then, have fun building their backstories, and let those backstories guide you in deciding which one is "ready" when it's time to start the next campaign. Also, it's good to have a few characters on deck when you're approaching a new campaign, because if you've got your heart set on a particular race and class, and then you find that three other people at the table want to play that exact same race/class combo, then it'll be helpful to have something different to offer. A well-rounded party is more likely to survive.
In terms of which type of character is "better" or "more enjoyable", that's such a personal decision that your best hope of having fun is to try each one and find what's best for you. Because that's what it's all about - Having Fun!
Tayn of Darkwood. Lvl 10 human Life Cleric of Lathander. Retired.
Ikram Sahir ibn Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad, Second Son of the House of Ra'ad, Defender of the Burning Sands. Lvl 9 Brass Dragonborn Sorcerer + Greater Fire Elemental Devil.
Viktor Gavriil. Lvl 20 White Dragonborn Grave Cleric, of Kurgan the God of Death.
Anzio Faro. Lvl 5 Prot. Aasimar Light Cleric.
Oh yes, that is definitely the cause of this dilemma. I have six on paper, and even more I'm eager to roll up. The primary cause for this dilemma is because the DM has made it clear he plans on it going for a long time. As in, tier 3 almost guaranteed and tier 4 a definite possibility. So the idea of (possibly, barring a death) playing the same character for that long has led to me being a little indecisive. I was set on my OoV Paladin for a bit, but I figured it's always worth a second opinion. That said, I've more or less decided on it now, and I'm really excited to play him and watch his story play out, along with the rest of the party's characters.
Please allow me to clarify my earlier post. Of course you should play something you like. But just don’t pick one of your top two. Pick the 2nd runner up. You said that you made a bunch of characters and then narrowed it down to your two favorites. Pick your third favorite.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
It's a tricky proposition. On one hand you may 'risk' losing a character you like, but then again, you should always love what you play.
I say risk it! You may suffer some heartbreak, but you will never experience true love, if you settle for second best ;)
If it is merely a technical choice between two 'equal' options, my favorite trick is a coin toss, it works every time.
The trick is not to care about what the coin shows, but what you feel when the coin does. For example if heads is for the paladin and tails for the fighter, and you are disappointed when tails shows, you know you want to play the paladin. If you are excited that tails shows, you know the fighter is what you wanted ;)
More Interesting Lock Picking Rules
I dunno... I always play my favorite concept.
In the past when I have made a "back up character first" just in case it died or I messed it up, I have ended up having a ball with the back-up character and never getting around to my "main" character idea. Now, yes, I had fun either way, but if you have something you really want to do, just do it. There is no guarantee the chance will necessarily come up right away to play the best one later.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Funny you should say that, I used a similar trick, but used my d20 instead. I would have been excited to play either, it was just a matter of being pushed one way or the other. So now I'm playing my OoV Paladin, and can't wait to get things started with him.
No joke. I went through 7 characters in a single campaign...****y 3 of them died.
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.