This is something I've just had pop into my head, which will be of mixed value depending on how things fall:
Skip a Beat
1st Level Divination Spell
Casting Time:
Range:
Components:
Duration:
Your turn immediately ends, and your initiative score for this combat is reduced to 1 for the remainder of this combat. At initiative count 1, you take your next turn and can act normally. Active spells with effects which last until the start or end of your next turn consider this turn to be your next turn, even though it is in the same battle round. This spell has no effect if your initiative score for this combat is already 1 or lower.
The premise of it is that it lets you skip ahead slightly in the combat, but doesn't reverse - you're down at I1 for the rest of the combat. It's effectively a "Once per combat" spell to get ahead of the enemy a bit!
What do you think? 1st level too low, or is it ok?
Well now, that’s an interesting idea. The language could use a li’l fixin,’ and I’m not too sure about Divination as opposed to something like Transmutation. Plus, as you pointed out, 1st-level might not be appropriate, maybe 2nd level might be better. Try this:
Skip a Beat
LEVEL
1st 2nd
CASTING TIME
1 Action
RANGE/AREA
Self
COMPONENTS
V, S, M *
DURATION
Instantaneous
SCHOOL
Transmutation
ATTACK/SAVE
None
DAMAGE/EFFECT
Buff
Your turn immediately ends, and your initiative count immediately drops to 1. You take another turn this round at initiative count 1, this counts as your next turn for all intents and purposes.
Sorry, apparently the he changes I made to the spell stats in my post reverted to the spell I stole it from, that must have made absolutely no sense before. My bad yo. I fixed it however, so it makes more sense now. Again, my apologies for the inconsistent info before.
I don't know, this would give you a bonus action, a reaction, and a sizeable amount of extra movement. Seems to me like there should be some more restrictions.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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I don't know, this would give you a bonus action, a reaction, and a sizeable amount of extra movement. Seems to me like there should be some more restrictions.
I don't know, this would give you a bonus action, a reaction, and a sizeable amount of extra movement. Seems to me like there should be some more restrictions.
So, you think maybe 2nd-level?
I was thinking more along the lines of it being a reaction that you can take at the very start of your turn. 1st level would seem fine to me if that were the case.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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I thought the point of the spell was to take your turn later in combat. I must have misunderstood something.
I'd also like to point out that the spell is flawed in that there's no flavor; it's a purely mechanical effect, and I can't think of any way to justify it.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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As I understood it, the point was to simulate getting a little ahead in combat, so you get to go a second time this round, but at the cost of always being at initiative 1 after that. So like skipping ahead a half a round once per combat.
And flavor can be added, but getting the mechanics down pat is more important to some folks. I know for many, the mechanics should reflect the flavor, but for just as many the flavor should describe the mechanics. It’s a chicken/egg thing.
So the idea is that it's a free bonus action, reaction, and movement at the cost of taking your action at initiative 1. A lot like the 17th level Thief ability, except without the extra action and including weird "the start of your turn isn't the start of your turn" rules. I'm admittedly bad at balancing, but I have the common sense to know that a 17th level feature probably shouldn't be a 1st or 2nd level spell. The value of the bonus action, reaction, and movement are very much dependent on the character, but there could be very powerful combos coming out of this spell.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
That’s more or less how I had interpreted it, except the start of your turn at initiative 1 is the start of your “next” turn, so anything you have going for you that lasts until “the start/end of your next turn” would end early at initiative count 1 of this round instead of lasting until next round as normal. It’s a way to mitigate some of those combos you’re thinking of. It’s kindasorta like Thief’s Reflexes, but your initiative is as low as it can possibly get, and it costs a whole action and a spell slot to do it instead of happening for free automatically. It’s far less powerful than something like haste, so it should be no higher than a 2nd-level spell.
Thankyou both for the feedback and discussion about it!
Sposta, you are correct that the plan was to get the mechanics down and flavour it after! I was thinking of perhaps some form of prescience where you can foresee the next moves and get ahead of them, or perhaps some form of chronomancy where you speed up the flow of time for yourself for just a moment.
Quar1on, I see your comparison to the Thief ability, I have strugled to drum up interest in playing a rogue so I hve never read too deeply into them! The difference with the two is, as Sposta said, the Thief one is free and activates every combat, and the spell will require an action and a spell slot. The thief one also returns you to your original initiative, so if you roll I22, you can act at 22, 12, and then at 22 again when it comes around, so with a Surprise round you will be laughing. The spell will instead eat an action and a spell slot, and then will drop you to I1 permenantly, so you really only gain for one single round and by the end of the next round, you will have lost you advantage! You essentially get to act twice on this round, but have to wait for eveyone else to act before you go again. It's going to be a case-by-case benefit, because if you can finish it off quickly, or make aditional use from someone elses spell, it's worth it. In a slug-fest, it's not going to be of much use, but if you need to kill it quick, then this spell could come into its own, which is why I wanted to make it a Bonus action, so you can do something, then bonus action to do more later on. Also a gamble as the battlefield may change between now and then, or you might just have 2 turns in a row if you're at the bottom of initiative anyway!
This kind of sounds like Dunamancy to me. I like what Sposta said about the wording and I agree that it should be 2nd level. I understand why this could look over powered, but the drawbacks and cost seem to help balance it. It still seems a little off to me though. Maybe making it so the caster has a speed of 0 ft or half movement until the end of their next turn, which would be the extra one, would help. Maybe the energy to manipulate time has exhausted them so they can't move as quickly.
Taken as is, Sposta's modification is basically a single turn time stop in that you are getting an extra turn this round.
I'd offer that instead, the original spell is used, as a reaction spell triggered at the start of you turn, but the spell effect allows you to pick any initiative count less than your current one in the initiative order, with permanent effect. That gives you greater leeway in setting up combos with your teammates, while not giving you the benefits of (most) of an extra turn.
Taken as is, Sposta's modification is basically a single turn time stop in that you are getting an extra turn this round.
I'd offer that instead, the original spell is used, as a reaction spell triggered at the start of you turn, but the spell effect allows you to pick any initiative count less than your current one in the initiative order, with permanent effect. That gives you greater leeway in setting up combos with your teammates, while not giving you the benefits of (most) of an extra turn.
I'd keep it a 2nd level spell.
Well… not quite as powerful as a single turn time stop. After all, it does punt you all the way down to I1 before you can go again. But I see what you’re saying. Yeah, definitely 2nd-level for it.
It sounds like there are 2 different ideas for a spell here. OP sounds like they are just trying to get 2 turns in one combat once per encounter. As cool as this sounds, I think it needs to be a higher level, even with its drawbacks. Iconarising's idea sounds like a slightly different take on the spell, but I agree with that idea if you want to keep it relatively low level. It doesn't give that extra turn, but it sets you up strategically.
At the end of the day though, it's your game and your/your GM's rules. If you want to play test it as is, go for it. You can always tweak it as you go. Just make sure you talk to your GM/players about the potential changes before you play.
This is a really interesting spell... it does something really unique that isn't obviously powerful at once... the main value it seems to have is to give you the ability to set up multiple bonus-action features in a single round. It's deifnitely one of those features that its balanced by the bonus-action spell limitation... you can't combine this with a bonus action spell on the turn it's cast, but something like... a Bladesinger can use this to activate their Bladesong, reposition themselves, then on initiative 1 they can maybe cast Shadow Blade and still have their full action. It seems super useful, but only under very specific conditions.
So the problem is that this spell also allows you to potentially get an additional reaction, plus an additional movement. Would it be too much of a nerf to this spell to add the language, "You cannot take a Reaction until the start of your next turn, and your movement speed becomes Zero for that same turn"? I feel like that addresses some of the potential abuse of this spell, but also it might also ruin it... the extra bonus action is nice, but very niche... getting to move twice is useful for everyone.
I'd say, if nothing else, this definitely makes sense as a higher level spell. I'm thinking 3rd level... low enough that you can still gain access to it early enough in the game to make it a part of your arsenal through most major events, but high enough that, say... a Rogue can't do a quick one level dip or use Magic Initiate to grab it and pull off a bunch of ridiculous combos before they even get their subclass features.
3rd-level would put this at the same level as haste. Do you really feel it’s that powerful?
Hmmm... I think Haste is a good comparison to make. I think the two are comparable... Haste has the big downside that, once the spell ends, the person it's cast on loses a full turn of combat, so despite how useful Haste is turn-after-turn, it's still a bit of a gamble since you risk losing a turn every time the person who cast the spell takes damage, or if some kind of emergency comes up where they have to cast a different concentration spell.
That said... I think with what you've pointed out I think that making it 3rd level with no caveats (not losing your reaction or movement speed) seems like a good compromise. It's essentially giving yourself an extra turn on whatever round you cast the spell with the only downside being that you're lower on the initiative order going forward... but honestly, after the first round, where you are in the initiative order doesn't matter nearly as much.
This is certainly a brain tickler... this feels like a spell that should work, and there's a lot of clever little tricks someone could pull off with this, but it's also so out of left field in terms of "power" that it's hard to gauge just how valuable it should be. I can say for certainty this would be a complete waste of a 4th level spell slot, and also that it's too good for a 1st level spell, but I'm not sure I'm convinced whether it should be 2nd or 3rd level. I think it's safer to put it as a 3rd level spell... I don't know about everyone else, but I tend to err on the side of making homebrew stuff slightly less valuable than official content... but making it 3rd level also puts it in competition with some of the most valuable spells in the game, and I'm not sure how well it holds up compared to those.
I will say if this were to be a 1st level spell it would need some kind of major downsides attached to keep it from being too exploitable, but beyond that I think it might need some actual play testing to see just how useful it could prove to be. I'd like to see this spell in the hands of someone who's good at cheesing out the game with ridiculous RAW comboes.
I've got an update on this if anyone is interested. My group and I have done some play testing on this and this is what we came up with. I worked with all of my players to find out what would make the most sense, and be the most useful without being too over powered. This is the updated spell we currently use:
Skip a Beat
LEVEL CASTING TIME RANGE/AREA COMPONENTS
3rd 1 Action Self V, S, M *
DURATION SCHOOL ATTACK/SAVE DAMAGE/EFFECT
Instantaneous Transmutation None Buff
Your turn immediately ends, and your initiative count immediately drops to 1.
You take another turn this round at initiative count 1, this counts as your next turn for all intents and purposes
I gave all my PC's access to it so we could experiment with different classes, abilities, spells, etc. The only situations that this spell has been used by my PC's is to set themselves up for a combo or advantage with another PC, or to give themselves extra movement. Most of the time when this was used, the PC was already last in the initiative. The most powerful use of this was when my cleric moved to give advantage to our fighter and casted spiritual weapon, then on the second turn moved to a better location for mass cure wounds. They are also the only PC that has used this spell more than twice. My martial PC's prefer to use their other abilities, so their usefulness for this spell is pretty niche.
Over all, this spell seems to work at my table. My players are happy with it, and they do not exploit it. I am sure that there may be ways to exploit this that we have not thought of, but I have no plans of modifying or banning it yet. Let me know what you think.
This is something I've just had pop into my head, which will be of mixed value depending on how things fall:
Skip a Beat
1st Level Divination Spell
Your turn immediately ends, and your initiative score for this combat is reduced to 1 for the remainder of this combat. At initiative count 1, you take your next turn and can act normally. Active spells with effects which last until the start or end of your next turn consider this turn to be your next turn, even though it is in the same battle round. This spell has no effect if your initiative score for this combat is already 1 or lower.
The premise of it is that it lets you skip ahead slightly in the combat, but doesn't reverse - you're down at I1 for the rest of the combat. It's effectively a "Once per combat" spell to get ahead of the enemy a bit!
What do you think? 1st level too low, or is it ok?
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Well now, that’s an interesting idea. The language could use a li’l fixin,’ and I’m not too sure about Divination as opposed to something like Transmutation. Plus, as you pointed out, 1st-level might not be appropriate, maybe 2nd level might be better. Try this:
Skip a Beat
1st2nd* - (a small flat rock and a hand drum)
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Sorry, apparently the he changes I made to the spell stats in my post reverted to the spell I stole it from, that must have made absolutely no sense before. My bad yo. I fixed it however, so it makes more sense now. Again, my apologies for the inconsistent info before.
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I don't know, this would give you a bonus action, a reaction, and a sizeable amount of extra movement. Seems to me like there should be some more restrictions.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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So, you think maybe 2nd-level?
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I was thinking more along the lines of it being a reaction that you can take at the very start of your turn. 1st level would seem fine to me if that were the case.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
That seems to kinda defeat the purpose of the spell though, don’tcha think?
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I thought the point of the spell was to take your turn later in combat. I must have misunderstood something.
I'd also like to point out that the spell is flawed in that there's no flavor; it's a purely mechanical effect, and I can't think of any way to justify it.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
As I understood it, the point was to simulate getting a little ahead in combat, so you get to go a second time this round, but at the cost of always being at initiative 1 after that. So like skipping ahead a half a round once per combat.
And flavor can be added, but getting the mechanics down pat is more important to some folks. I know for many, the mechanics should reflect the flavor, but for just as many the flavor should describe the mechanics. It’s a chicken/egg thing.
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So the idea is that it's a free bonus action, reaction, and movement at the cost of taking your action at initiative 1. A lot like the 17th level Thief ability, except without the extra action and including weird "the start of your turn isn't the start of your turn" rules. I'm admittedly bad at balancing, but I have the common sense to know that a 17th level feature probably shouldn't be a 1st or 2nd level spell. The value of the bonus action, reaction, and movement are very much dependent on the character, but there could be very powerful combos coming out of this spell.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
That’s more or less how I had interpreted it, except the start of your turn at initiative 1 is the start of your “next” turn, so anything you have going for you that lasts until “the start/end of your next turn” would end early at initiative count 1 of this round instead of lasting until next round as normal. It’s a way to mitigate some of those combos you’re thinking of. It’s kindasorta like Thief’s Reflexes, but your initiative is as low as it can possibly get, and it costs a whole action and a spell slot to do it instead of happening for free automatically. It’s far less powerful than something like haste, so it should be no higher than a 2nd-level spell.
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Thankyou both for the feedback and discussion about it!
Sposta, you are correct that the plan was to get the mechanics down and flavour it after! I was thinking of perhaps some form of prescience where you can foresee the next moves and get ahead of them, or perhaps some form of chronomancy where you speed up the flow of time for yourself for just a moment.
Quar1on, I see your comparison to the Thief ability, I have strugled to drum up interest in playing a rogue so I hve never read too deeply into them! The difference with the two is, as Sposta said, the Thief one is free and activates every combat, and the spell will require an action and a spell slot. The thief one also returns you to your original initiative, so if you roll I22, you can act at 22, 12, and then at 22 again when it comes around, so with a Surprise round you will be laughing. The spell will instead eat an action and a spell slot, and then will drop you to I1 permenantly, so you really only gain for one single round and by the end of the next round, you will have lost you advantage! You essentially get to act twice on this round, but have to wait for eveyone else to act before you go again. It's going to be a case-by-case benefit, because if you can finish it off quickly, or make aditional use from someone elses spell, it's worth it. In a slug-fest, it's not going to be of much use, but if you need to kill it quick, then this spell could come into its own, which is why I wanted to make it a Bonus action, so you can do something, then bonus action to do more later on. Also a gamble as the battlefield may change between now and then, or you might just have 2 turns in a row if you're at the bottom of initiative anyway!
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This kind of sounds like Dunamancy to me. I like what Sposta said about the wording and I agree that it should be 2nd level. I understand why this could look over powered, but the drawbacks and cost seem to help balance it. It still seems a little off to me though. Maybe making it so the caster has a speed of 0 ft or half movement until the end of their next turn, which would be the extra one, would help. Maybe the energy to manipulate time has exhausted them so they can't move as quickly.
Taken as is, Sposta's modification is basically a single turn time stop in that you are getting an extra turn this round.
I'd offer that instead, the original spell is used, as a reaction spell triggered at the start of you turn, but the spell effect allows you to pick any initiative count less than your current one in the initiative order, with permanent effect. That gives you greater leeway in setting up combos with your teammates, while not giving you the benefits of (most) of an extra turn.
I'd keep it a 2nd level spell.
Well… not quite as powerful as a single turn time stop. After all, it does punt you all the way down to I1 before you can go again. But I see what you’re saying. Yeah, definitely 2nd-level for it.
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It sounds like there are 2 different ideas for a spell here. OP sounds like they are just trying to get 2 turns in one combat once per encounter. As cool as this sounds, I think it needs to be a higher level, even with its drawbacks. Iconarising's idea sounds like a slightly different take on the spell, but I agree with that idea if you want to keep it relatively low level. It doesn't give that extra turn, but it sets you up strategically.
At the end of the day though, it's your game and your/your GM's rules. If you want to play test it as is, go for it. You can always tweak it as you go. Just make sure you talk to your GM/players about the potential changes before you play.
This is a really interesting spell... it does something really unique that isn't obviously powerful at once... the main value it seems to have is to give you the ability to set up multiple bonus-action features in a single round. It's deifnitely one of those features that its balanced by the bonus-action spell limitation... you can't combine this with a bonus action spell on the turn it's cast, but something like... a Bladesinger can use this to activate their Bladesong, reposition themselves, then on initiative 1 they can maybe cast Shadow Blade and still have their full action. It seems super useful, but only under very specific conditions.
So the problem is that this spell also allows you to potentially get an additional reaction, plus an additional movement. Would it be too much of a nerf to this spell to add the language, "You cannot take a Reaction until the start of your next turn, and your movement speed becomes Zero for that same turn"? I feel like that addresses some of the potential abuse of this spell, but also it might also ruin it... the extra bonus action is nice, but very niche... getting to move twice is useful for everyone.
I'd say, if nothing else, this definitely makes sense as a higher level spell. I'm thinking 3rd level... low enough that you can still gain access to it early enough in the game to make it a part of your arsenal through most major events, but high enough that, say... a Rogue can't do a quick one level dip or use Magic Initiate to grab it and pull off a bunch of ridiculous combos before they even get their subclass features.
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3rd-level would put this at the same level as haste. Do you really feel it’s that powerful?
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Hmmm... I think Haste is a good comparison to make. I think the two are comparable... Haste has the big downside that, once the spell ends, the person it's cast on loses a full turn of combat, so despite how useful Haste is turn-after-turn, it's still a bit of a gamble since you risk losing a turn every time the person who cast the spell takes damage, or if some kind of emergency comes up where they have to cast a different concentration spell.
That said... I think with what you've pointed out I think that making it 3rd level with no caveats (not losing your reaction or movement speed) seems like a good compromise. It's essentially giving yourself an extra turn on whatever round you cast the spell with the only downside being that you're lower on the initiative order going forward... but honestly, after the first round, where you are in the initiative order doesn't matter nearly as much.
This is certainly a brain tickler... this feels like a spell that should work, and there's a lot of clever little tricks someone could pull off with this, but it's also so out of left field in terms of "power" that it's hard to gauge just how valuable it should be. I can say for certainty this would be a complete waste of a 4th level spell slot, and also that it's too good for a 1st level spell, but I'm not sure I'm convinced whether it should be 2nd or 3rd level. I think it's safer to put it as a 3rd level spell... I don't know about everyone else, but I tend to err on the side of making homebrew stuff slightly less valuable than official content... but making it 3rd level also puts it in competition with some of the most valuable spells in the game, and I'm not sure how well it holds up compared to those.
I will say if this were to be a 1st level spell it would need some kind of major downsides attached to keep it from being too exploitable, but beyond that I think it might need some actual play testing to see just how useful it could prove to be. I'd like to see this spell in the hands of someone who's good at cheesing out the game with ridiculous RAW comboes.
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I've got an update on this if anyone is interested. My group and I have done some play testing on this and this is what we came up with. I worked with all of my players to find out what would make the most sense, and be the most useful without being too over powered. This is the updated spell we currently use:
Skip a Beat
Over all, this spell seems to work at my table. My players are happy with it, and they do not exploit it. I am sure that there may be ways to exploit this that we have not thought of, but I have no plans of modifying or banning it yet. Let me know what you think.