I am the DM in my group and I started to do some homebrewing in my game where I think it would improve the experience. It's my personal feeling that the Sorcerer needs a bit of a boost to keep up with his fellow casters.
I did some brainstorming about how to buff the sorcerer without changing up too much of the mechanics. I came up with four changes (inspired partially by other sorcerer reworks) that I might playtest with my players if one of them wants to pick up the sorcerer as a class. I would apperciate some feedback. :)
Arcane conduit: Magic permeates your very being. Beginning at first level, your hands are considered to be an arcane focus for the purposes of spellcasting. In addition, you learn the spell detect magic and can cast it at will.
Reasoning: Flavorful ability since sorcerers are supposed to be magical beings, mostly a ribbon though. Detect Magic as “cantrip” because it should be easily available in my campaign and they don’t get it as ritual. (At my table you can cast Detect magic at will if you could cast it as a ritual.)
Sorcerous Origin Spells: Every Sorcerous origin subclass provides an additional 6 spells known (1 per spell level 1 to 6). These spells do not count against the number of sorcerer spells you know and count as Sorcerer spells for you. You cannot replace them with other spells.
Reasoning: Sorcerers only get 15 spells by RAW as full spellcasters? It is far less than other full casters (e.g. cleric 35 prepared and “knows” all his spells, wizard 25 prepared plus the spellbook and all ritual spells he has for free, Bard 22 bard spells +6-8 from any class, Warlocks 19 + Invocations) and even less than some half-casters (e.g. Paladin). I get that this is a design decision but I think it is a restriction that is too strong. Adding 6 more spells + Detect magic (from the “Arcane conduit” feature) brings them to 22, which is equal to the base Bard (without magical secrets). Origin spells are supposed to be thematic and be typical for the respective sorcerous origin and it still keeps with the design decision to keep the sorcerers spell list limited since he cannot exchange those spells. I made some potential lists below.
Metamagic: You gain an additional metamagic option at 5th level and one again at the 7th level. The metamagic option Careful Spell now allows you to spend 1 additional sorcery point to cause chosen creatures to be immune to the effects of the spell.
Reasoning: Metamagic is the core feature of the sorcerer but most of the game he will spend with only 2, gaining a third only at lvl 10. He is limited profoundly for this feature but gains only very limited access. This feature gives the sorcerer again a bit more flexibility and allows to pick up some mechanically weaker but more flavorful options. Careful spell only works with a few spells normally, this expands its usefulness for a cost increase.
Bloodmagic: Starting at 5th level you can spend Hit Dice to regain spent Sorcery points during a Short Rest. For every Hit Dice spent that way you recover 1 Sorcery point. If you expend more Hit Dice than half your level (rounded up) using this feature you suffer one level of exhaustion.
Reasoning: I wanted to add some sort of Short rest mechanic that is comparable to the Wizard. With this mechanic the sorcerers hit dice become a resource that must be managed. Being safe gives them back up to half their sorcery points which is comparable to arcane recovery. If they need to use them for healing, the choice is harder. Converting all of them gives them a few more spells (or metamagic) per day compared to the wizard but only half will regenerate for the next day and none will be left for healing. I am considering imposing a limit equal to maximum of half the sorcerer level (rounded up) but I like the idea of them being able to push their bodies beyond safe limits.
I like arcane conduit (especially flavor wise), but I think giving all sorcerers an always on focus breaks game balance.
Origin spells I mostly agree with. First I want to correct that bard magical secrets count against their spells known, so they actually only have 18 "bard only" spells. And to point out that warlocks can only have 1 of each level 6-9 spell and can't up cast any spell to these levels, and they need to squeeze 15 spells through 4 spell slots. So with that in mind, I think they should only get a spell for levels 1 through 5, no level 6. I don't really like all your spell choices either, but I'm not going to go through that.
I do also hate how the sorcerer only has 2 metamagics for 9 levels, but only 1 more at level 5 should suffice. And none of them need a buff.
I'm not a huge fan of blood magic, but I do agree with the problem you are attempting to fix. My suggestion is something akin to wizard's arcane recovery, where the sorcerer gets half his sorcery points back on a short rest once per long rest, and get this feature later, like level 10. The terrible capstone feature will need replaced after this though.
I considered that the permanent focus might be a strong buff but then again how often does it occur that you take away the focus of a spellcaster? If the PCs are captured maybe but I felt that in this rare and specific situation it would be okay to give the sorcerer a unique advantage. Do I miss something about the focus that obviously breaks the game?
You are right with the "base" bard, I must have confused it with the Lore bard feature. It's true what you say about warlocks but still they at least don't have to spend one of their spells known on the spell levels 6 to 9. In addition many of their invocations give them additional spells (at will) as well. If the few spell slots on short rests are a problem depends a lot on how the adventure day is structured I guess. That said, I don't think it matters too much if sorcerers get 5 or 6 additional spells but they should in my opinion know at least 20 spells overall even though I tend to 22 (equal to the bard). Giving them an additional 6th level spell was me trying to make the feature more distinct from cleric domains that get 10 spells, 2 per spell levels 1 to 5. Sorcerers get less but in turn one level higher. I figured that would be fair.
Here I disagree with you. I think it should be two additional options, since it is the class feature that makes the sorcerer unique and should really justify the heavy restrictions. I also think the internal balance of the metamagics is quite bad. Some options are just so situational that it really makes no sense in picking them over others if you can only select so few options. Maybe it would be better to word the addendum to Careful spell similar to the Sculpt spells feature of the Evoker as to not open up abuse with immunity. I felt it would be fair to be able to pay more to then really protect your allies from your spells damage. The basic feature only works with a few spells (since it only works for the first save).
What do you not like about the Blood magic feature? I considered the same option as you did by just giving them an arcane recovery feature but I felt it was very boring to just copy a wizard class feature. I feel like my solution is quite thematic. The sorcerers blood/body is infused with magic and he could tap their physical reserves to channel more of it. It would also be using another resource and not just be for free. It would be a balance act between healing and more magic.
The Capstone is bad yeah but many of the capstones are quite bad so I don’t think it’s a huge problem. A possible change to the capstone would be to give the sorcerers all metamagic options for example?
I had a sorc in my party a few months back who was very very clumsy. (Dex score was an 8) they cooking the meal one night for the party and roll a critical fail with a chef knife... sliced off their own left hand. It was also their writing hand and no one was above level 5 at the time. She the hand in a jar of timeless unguent and eventually made it into a clone body via the help of the party Wizard.
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" The Shadow Monarch is the ultimate expression of a "One Man Army" even in a team Setting his minions would act as meat shields for the allies while going on the Offensive, maybe in future version I will develop tactics and formations for the minions so the minions and party won't easily be decimated by random monsters or even the character's current enemies."
I agree with GramPositive. I love the RP of the sorcerer, that the power is just inside you and itching to come out (for better or worse). The variety of ways one can be such a being provides considerable character backstory: some may be born from powerful tainted bloodlines like a Draconic Bloodline sorcerer while others may have been altered by rituals cast upon them as a child or conceived in such., others could have had their very soul altered by powerful beings or take a cue from Wild and Shadow sorcerers and have their soul bound to other Planes of Existence. Most other classes have a very static RP element: wizards just went to school and studied to learn it, bards just travelled around and learned how, clerics and warlocks were just given it and druids just learned to connect with nature. But a Sorcerer? They have a vast array of potential ways their mysterious powers have come to them.
It never, ever, made sense to me that sorcerers whose power and magic was inside, have to wiggle little sticks and orbs or faff about with silly, often nonsensical, material components. Your powers could have emerged at birth - oh but you can't really say make rp anecdotes because without the "magic words" and "materials" you couldn't have cast anything. Not even a cantrip. Because although the RP aspect is these spells are "powers you possess", they're actually not, just spells you somehow just "know". It's ridiculous.
I can understand it to some degree for some spells needing costly components, but the non-cost stuff? The point is that to reduce the spellcasting of a spellcaster they can remove the focus/pouch, much like they can remove a weapon to diminish the martial characters but, monks get to be exempt - take their weapons and they are still just as efficient and deadly so why can't Sorcerers be to spellcasting classes what monks are to martial classes?
I have frequently had homebrew rules in my creations, games I DMed and games I've played in where focus/pouch can be ignored, where one (V/S) can be removed so spells only need a V or a S componant and it remained, from levels 1 to 14 anyway, perfectly balanced. Because at the end of the day the component distribution isn't balanced anyway: in prison where they don't know you're magical and took your focus/pouch because they just took everything? V component Misty Step and you're Free, or mage hand the keys or have the conjurer wizard use his minor conjuration feature that doesn't require any components at all to make the key or tool, or conjure bonfire repeatedly to melt the bars.... ANd so on. Or, if you're end-level, cast the V-component only spell that can rewrite all reality (Wish is just a V component). Or use V component only Dimension Door to freedom. If they know you're spellcaster, they just tie your hands, blindfold you and gag you: and not a single spell of usefulness can be cast without Subtle Spell. So, is reducing components to V or S only really that bad?
Some spell need components but most really don't beyond one.
Even the "cost" ones are not thought out properly. Oh sure a 100 gp to cast Identify, which is a spell that lets you learn about an item during an action/10 mins instead of a short rest - because yeah, that's all it does, since it does not reveal curses or anything it simply does the exact same thing any character can do with a short rest... For that you pay 100 gp for a pearl, oh but blasting people with a finger of death or summoning meteor swarms is just an arcane word and a hand gesture?
The component system is ill-thought out and not balanced. I preferred 4th edition take where material components were only required for rituals (that makes sense to me, you use the synergy of the items to draw in the magic from the world instead of using up your own power). And in that edition (or was it 3.5?) no spellcaster needed a focus for any reason: but it could be used for flavour and some foci could confer extra bonuses/benefits.
Why should sorcerers need to utter arcane words or juggle items just to cast an innate power? It's like saying I only get to breathe for the next minute if I say a special word and hold a stone.
"I hold within my blood the great power of ancient dragons and I will unleash it to burn you from existence... When I recover my little stick (wand)." **** that shit thrice and pay a dollar, it's terribly stupid and restrictive and there's a reason why so many streams - including those run by the designers - don't follow these material components as RAW. If you want to play with the material components, then great, but if you don't then don't because it has no effect on game balance. It may have been intended as a balance mechanic but it utterly fails which is why many homebrew it away.
Getting rid of non-cost material components is great, and a necessity for sorcerers to be what they're supposed to be. Half the metamagic options are useful, but not enough to justify the pitiful spells known limitations and the other half are only useful in niche scenarios or utterly worthless (I'm looking at you, Careful spell). And yes, for the whole core feature of Sorcerer you get so little compared to other option=lists like battle manouvres, invocations, etc.
I agree with your tweaks wholeheartedly (except some of the spell choices for subclasses, but that's irrelevant to the overall point you're making).
I love the RP and concept of Sorcerers but I hate what D&D does to them. One of the few times I say take a cue from Pathfinder (where they only use S components get extra spells for each subclass and powers and skills, and where Detect Magic is a cantrip, because why the fluff wouldn't it be?).
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The way I run my campaigns is simply on components, very few spells like revivify or any other revival spell require something, its because that item is a trade for the person's/creature's soul.
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" The Shadow Monarch is the ultimate expression of a "One Man Army" even in a team Setting his minions would act as meat shields for the allies while going on the Offensive, maybe in future version I will develop tactics and formations for the minions so the minions and party won't easily be decimated by random monsters or even the character's current enemies."
@DxJxC I would like to hear about how casting without an arcane focus breaks game balance. Rangers do it all the time. A lot of Paladins and some clerics just incorporate their focus into their shield, which is basically like not needing a focus unless they are disarmed.
I've only just started playing a Sorcerer, so I don't yet have an opinion on # of spells know, but I do agree that having one or two more metamagics and having a way to either improve the conversion of spell slots to SPoints or having a short rest recovery mechanic for SPoints.
@DxJxC I would like to hear about how casting without an arcane focus breaks game balance. Rangers do it all the time. A lot of Paladins and some clerics just incorporate their focus into their shield, which is basically like not needing a focus unless they are disarmed.
It isn't casting without an arcane focus, it is always having an arcane focus. Rangers need a component pouch to cast spells with a material component (as long as that component isn't ammo or something).
It keeps them from having their focus taken from them, making capture difficult and rendering survival campaigns moot. It also gives them an edge in action economy if they want to have weapons or a shield in both hands and not have to switch to their focus for spellcasting.
So, as my two copper, I like a lot of these changes.
Arcane Conduit is a good and thematic change IMO. The detect magic bit is a little odd, but if it fits your world, then more power to you.
Origin spells are also a good call, though like the others I have some disagreements with the spells chosen, which I also agree is largely irrelevant. In play at my tables, I work with the individual player to make a finalized version of their origin spells, which ends up being 1 spell known at spell levels 1-5. A 6th level spell known is tempting since that level contains some goodies (like the extremely thematic True Sight for the Draconic Sorcerer), but I've never made it to 11th level with a Sorcerer in my party anyway, so it's never come up.
More metamagics is good, but you're really crowding those lower levels with new features. At my table, I grant one more metamagic at levels 6 and 14, which spaces things out a bit more. I also don't change any of the metamagics.
Blood magic is a unique and interesting mechanic, but I'm not sure how it would work out in play. Depending on your table and the rest/combat schedule that comes about, it could be a huge boon (with little downside as resting allows the recovery of resources) or a huge pain (with little benefit as resources become strained). That kind of swinginess is something to be wary of.
As another note, a change that I've found to be very thematic and useful is the Spell Points variant from the DMG. Applying it to Sorcerers and adding Sorcery Points to the pool of Spell Points grants a huge amount of very unique flexibility. This is another feature to be wary of, however, because depending on your table's rest schedule it can be hugely overpowered.
All in all, I like a lot of this, but it's too much IMO. I would start smaller and see what works for your table before making big changes.
@Cyb3rM1nd: I agree with you that some material components don't really seem to make any sense at all and I am personally not a big fan of the component pouch lore (It just seems weird/silly to have to carry around batshit to cast a certain spell). I don't mind the arcane/divine focus rules but I think it is quite weird to impose it onto sorcerers that are magical by nature.
@DxJxC I would like to hear about how casting without an arcane focus breaks game balance. Rangers do it all the time. A lot of Paladins and some clerics just incorporate their focus into their shield, which is basically like not needing a focus unless they are disarmed.
It isn't casting without an arcane focus, it is always having an arcane focus. Rangers need a component pouch to cast spells with a material component (as long as that component isn't ammo or something).
It keeps them from having their focus taken from them, making capture difficult and rendering survival campaigns moot. It also gives them an edge in action economy if they want to have weapons or a shield in both hands and not have to switch to their focus for spellcasting.
I see your point but I still think that this situation of capture is rare enough that it is okay to give the sorcerer an advantage. Also, I quickly checked the DnD beyond spell list and filtered for those that don't have a Material component. There are about 100 spells that could be cast by a sorcerer that don't require a material component so it's not like you can take away magic from them completely by taking away their focus. There are other ways to "disarm" a sorcerer if it is really necessary I think. You could drug them or blindfold them (many spells need line of sight). Sublte spell makes it anyway very diffucult to restrain a sorcerer (assuming he has that metamagic anyhow).
So, as my two copper, I like a lot of these changes.
Arcane Conduit is a good and thematic change IMO. The detect magic bit is a little odd, but if it fits your world, then more power to you.
Origin spells are also a good call, though like the others I have some disagreements with the spells chosen, which I also agree is largely irrelevant. In play at my tables, I work with the individual player to make a finalized version of their origin spells, which ends up being 1 spell known at spell levels 1-5. A 6th level spell known is tempting since that level contains some goodies (like the extremely thematic True Sight for the Draconic Sorcerer), but I've never made it to 11th level with a Sorcerer in my party anyway, so it's never come up.
More metamagics is good, but you're really crowding those lower levels with new features. At my table, I grant one more metamagic at levels 6 and 14, which spaces things out a bit more. I also don't change any of the metamagics.
Blood magic is a unique and interesting mechanic, but I'm not sure how it would work out in play. Depending on your table and the rest/combat schedule that comes about, it could be a huge boon (with little downside as resting allows the recovery of resources) or a huge pain (with little benefit as resources become strained). That kind of swinginess is something to be wary of.
As another note, a change that I've found to be very thematic and useful is the Spell Points variant from the DMG. Applying it to Sorcerers and adding Sorcery Points to the pool of Spell Points grants a huge amount of very unique flexibility. This is another feature to be wary of, however, because depending on your table's rest schedule it can be hugely overpowered.
All in all, I like a lot of this, but it's too much IMO. I would start smaller and see what works for your table before making big changes.
Yeah the Detect magic part is quite specific to my setting I guess.
Haha most people here seem to unhappy with my spell choices. That's fine, the ones i posted were just some ideas. So I am curious to which ones people object? Any specific suggestions (except True Sight for Dragon sorcs)? Discussing it directly with the player in question is a good idea, even though that could end up in a lot of discussion about why spell X should be on their origin list xD
Spacing the additional metamagic features over a wider range of levels is a good middleground between only 1 additional and 2 additional ones I think. About making changes to them: I realize that this is quite tricky since it can have a big impact with the many spells they could be applied to. I just don't like how some of them have so very specific and niche uses that they only work properly with a handfull of spells, which in turn limits the sorcerer who has only a few spells to work with.
Of all the features I would be most interested in seeing how Blood magic would work out at the table and I really like the thematics of it as I said before.
I looked at the spell point system too and it sounds quite cool but as far as I read most people seem to think that this would be quite overpowered for the sorcerer. I guess it's the entire reason that the sorcery points <-> spell slot conversion results in a net-loss of rescources.
@GramPositive What kind of feedback are you looking for re: spell choices? How thematically appropriate they are?
To balance the Blood Magic hit points -> SPoints conversion, I might add that the level of exhaustion caused also reduces your normal hp recovery during short and long rests. Maybe you get only half the usual hp back. However, this would only seriously impact the character and the party if there were no healers, the healer was out of spells, and there are no healing potions. Well, to up the risk a bit, I would temporarily suspend their CON proficiency until they recover fully from their exhaustion level, which makes sense thematically and might have a big impact on the party's future decisions after seeing a concentration spell fail badly in the middle of a fight.
Homebrew is always pretty table-specific. Some tables, such as DxJxC's, take the components thing and spellcasting requirements very seriously (and Warcaster becomes a required feat for any mixed martial/caster, such as clerics or palladalladingdongs, on top of being overpoweringly good in general). Others basically handwave casting requirements until/unless a situation logically demands that picking those nits becomes important. Cleric casting Guiding Bolt on an enemy flying around with her hands stuffed with warhammer and shield? That's fine, clearly intended. Same cleric trying to Guiding Bolt in a Silence field, or with her hands bound? Then we're checking spell requirements.
Sorcerers being able to ignore costless material components (I'm assuming they'd still need to pay for big-badda-boom spells) seems appropriate, especially if the lore of your game leans heavily on them being One With Magic. I would, perhaps, specify that using your hands as an arcane focus this way causes them to glow/thrum with power, allowing them to bypass a normal focus at the cost of potentially ruining stealth, if it becomes a balance issue. The Detect Magic thing sounds like a world hack, which is fine.
Origin spells are a splendid idea, I always tried to ensure any sorcerer I built had spells mostly appropriate to their origin, but the Sorcerer spell list often makes that difficult. Helping players play their role more is a fine aspiration for a DM.
I'd be very careful with extra metamagic options. Metamagic is extremely powerful, the class was built with the idea of sorcerers not having access to every option they could want. One extra option at 6th level should be within the bounds of the game, but I'd hesitate to do more than that. That already gets you more than half the list by the end of the sorcerer's run. Would definitely step cautiously when adjusting a core class feature like this.
Blood Magic is an interesting idea, but the thematics aren't quite catching for me. I get what you're going for - expend vitality (i.e. 'blood') to regain arcane power, but remember that sorcery points can also be transformed into spell slots. You're potentially risking coffelock nonsense, if limited by hit dice availability. Any excuse to get players to actually remember they have hit dice and they should use them is good, but you're also potentially limiting the sorcerer's ability to recover after tough fights. I'm not sure how to tweak the idea to feel right without risking nonsense, however. Sorry.
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Hey guys
I am the DM in my group and I started to do some homebrewing in my game where I think it would improve the experience.
It's my personal feeling that the Sorcerer needs a bit of a boost to keep up with his fellow casters.
I did some brainstorming about how to buff the sorcerer without changing up too much of the mechanics. I came up with four changes (inspired partially by other sorcerer reworks) that I might playtest with my players if one of them wants to pick up the sorcerer as a class. I would apperciate some feedback. :)
Arcane conduit: Magic permeates your very being. Beginning at first level, your hands are considered to be an arcane focus for the purposes of spellcasting. In addition, you learn the spell detect magic and can cast it at will.
Reasoning: Flavorful ability since sorcerers are supposed to be magical beings, mostly a ribbon though. Detect Magic as “cantrip” because it should be easily available in my campaign and they don’t get it as ritual. (At my table you can cast Detect magic at will if you could cast it as a ritual.)
Sorcerous Origin Spells: Every Sorcerous origin subclass provides an additional 6 spells known (1 per spell level 1 to 6). These spells do not count against the number of sorcerer spells you know and count as Sorcerer spells for you. You cannot replace them with other spells.
Reasoning: Sorcerers only get 15 spells by RAW as full spellcasters? It is far less than other full casters (e.g. cleric 35 prepared and “knows” all his spells, wizard 25 prepared plus the spellbook and all ritual spells he has for free, Bard 22 bard spells +6-8 from any class, Warlocks 19 + Invocations) and even less than some half-casters (e.g. Paladin). I get that this is a design decision but I think it is a restriction that is too strong. Adding 6 more spells + Detect magic (from the “Arcane conduit” feature) brings them to 22, which is equal to the base Bard (without magical secrets). Origin spells are supposed to be thematic and be typical for the respective sorcerous origin and it still keeps with the design decision to keep the sorcerers spell list limited since he cannot exchange those spells. I made some potential lists below.
Metamagic: You gain an additional metamagic option at 5th level and one again at the 7th level. The metamagic option Careful Spell now allows you to spend 1 additional sorcery point to cause chosen creatures to be immune to the effects of the spell.
Reasoning: Metamagic is the core feature of the sorcerer but most of the game he will spend with only 2, gaining a third only at lvl 10. He is limited profoundly for this feature but gains only very limited access. This feature gives the sorcerer again a bit more flexibility and allows to pick up some mechanically weaker but more flavorful options. Careful spell only works with a few spells normally, this expands its usefulness for a cost increase.
Bloodmagic: Starting at 5th level you can spend Hit Dice to regain spent Sorcery points during a Short Rest. For every Hit Dice spent that way you recover 1 Sorcery point. If you expend more Hit Dice than half your level (rounded up) using this feature you suffer one level of exhaustion.
Reasoning: I wanted to add some sort of Short rest mechanic that is comparable to the Wizard. With this mechanic the sorcerers hit dice become a resource that must be managed. Being safe gives them back up to half their sorcery points which is comparable to arcane recovery. If they need to use them for healing, the choice is harder. Converting all of them gives them a few more spells (or metamagic) per day compared to the wizard but only half will regenerate for the next day and none will be left for healing. I am considering imposing a limit equal to maximum of half the sorcerer level (rounded up) but I like the idea of them being able to push their bodies beyond safe limits.
Spell list ideas:
I like arcane conduit (especially flavor wise), but I think giving all sorcerers an always on focus breaks game balance.
Origin spells I mostly agree with. First I want to correct that bard magical secrets count against their spells known, so they actually only have 18 "bard only" spells. And to point out that warlocks can only have 1 of each level 6-9 spell and can't up cast any spell to these levels, and they need to squeeze 15 spells through 4 spell slots. So with that in mind, I think they should only get a spell for levels 1 through 5, no level 6. I don't really like all your spell choices either, but I'm not going to go through that.
I do also hate how the sorcerer only has 2 metamagics for 9 levels, but only 1 more at level 5 should suffice. And none of them need a buff.
I'm not a huge fan of blood magic, but I do agree with the problem you are attempting to fix. My suggestion is something akin to wizard's arcane recovery, where the sorcerer gets half his sorcery points back on a short rest once per long rest, and get this feature later, like level 10. The terrible capstone feature will need replaced after this though.
I considered that the permanent focus might be a strong buff but then again how often does it occur that you take away the focus of a spellcaster? If the PCs are captured maybe but I felt that in this rare and specific situation it would be okay to give the sorcerer a unique advantage. Do I miss something about the focus that obviously breaks the game?
You are right with the "base" bard, I must have confused it with the Lore bard feature. It's true what you say about warlocks but still they at least don't have to spend one of their spells known on the spell levels 6 to 9. In addition many of their invocations give them additional spells (at will) as well. If the few spell slots on short rests are a problem depends a lot on how the adventure day is structured I guess. That said, I don't think it matters too much if sorcerers get 5 or 6 additional spells but they should in my opinion know at least 20 spells overall even though I tend to 22 (equal to the bard). Giving them an additional 6th level spell was me trying to make the feature more distinct from cleric domains that get 10 spells, 2 per spell levels 1 to 5. Sorcerers get less but in turn one level higher. I figured that would be fair.
Here I disagree with you. I think it should be two additional options, since it is the class feature that makes the sorcerer unique and should really justify the heavy restrictions. I also think the internal balance of the metamagics is quite bad. Some options are just so situational that it really makes no sense in picking them over others if you can only select so few options. Maybe it would be better to word the addendum to Careful spell similar to the Sculpt spells feature of the Evoker as to not open up abuse with immunity. I felt it would be fair to be able to pay more to then really protect your allies from your spells damage. The basic feature only works with a few spells (since it only works for the first save).
What do you not like about the Blood magic feature? I considered the same option as you did by just giving them an arcane recovery feature but I felt it was very boring to just copy a wizard class feature. I feel like my solution is quite thematic. The sorcerers blood/body is infused with magic and he could tap their physical reserves to channel more of it. It would also be using another resource and not just be for free. It would be a balance act between healing and more magic.
The Capstone is bad yeah but many of the capstones are quite bad so I don’t think it’s a huge problem. A possible change to the capstone would be to give the sorcerers all metamagic options for example?
I had a sorc in my party a few months back who was very very clumsy. (Dex score was an 8) they cooking the meal one night for the party and roll a critical fail with a chef knife... sliced off their own left hand. It was also their writing hand and no one was above level 5 at the time. She the hand in a jar of timeless unguent and eventually made it into a clone body via the help of the party Wizard.
I agree with GramPositive. I love the RP of the sorcerer, that the power is just inside you and itching to come out (for better or worse). The variety of ways one can be such a being provides considerable character backstory: some may be born from powerful tainted bloodlines like a Draconic Bloodline sorcerer while others may have been altered by rituals cast upon them as a child or conceived in such., others could have had their very soul altered by powerful beings or take a cue from Wild and Shadow sorcerers and have their soul bound to other Planes of Existence. Most other classes have a very static RP element: wizards just went to school and studied to learn it, bards just travelled around and learned how, clerics and warlocks were just given it and druids just learned to connect with nature. But a Sorcerer? They have a vast array of potential ways their mysterious powers have come to them.
It never, ever, made sense to me that sorcerers whose power and magic was inside, have to wiggle little sticks and orbs or faff about with silly, often nonsensical, material components. Your powers could have emerged at birth - oh but you can't really say make rp anecdotes because without the "magic words" and "materials" you couldn't have cast anything. Not even a cantrip. Because although the RP aspect is these spells are "powers you possess", they're actually not, just spells you somehow just "know". It's ridiculous.
I can understand it to some degree for some spells needing costly components, but the non-cost stuff? The point is that to reduce the spellcasting of a spellcaster they can remove the focus/pouch, much like they can remove a weapon to diminish the martial characters but, monks get to be exempt - take their weapons and they are still just as efficient and deadly so why can't Sorcerers be to spellcasting classes what monks are to martial classes?
I have frequently had homebrew rules in my creations, games I DMed and games I've played in where focus/pouch can be ignored, where one (V/S) can be removed so spells only need a V or a S componant and it remained, from levels 1 to 14 anyway, perfectly balanced. Because at the end of the day the component distribution isn't balanced anyway: in prison where they don't know you're magical and took your focus/pouch because they just took everything? V component Misty Step and you're Free, or mage hand the keys or have the conjurer wizard use his minor conjuration feature that doesn't require any components at all to make the key or tool, or conjure bonfire repeatedly to melt the bars.... ANd so on. Or, if you're end-level, cast the V-component only spell that can rewrite all reality (Wish is just a V component). Or use V component only Dimension Door to freedom. If they know you're spellcaster, they just tie your hands, blindfold you and gag you: and not a single spell of usefulness can be cast without Subtle Spell. So, is reducing components to V or S only really that bad?
Some spell need components but most really don't beyond one.
Even the "cost" ones are not thought out properly. Oh sure a 100 gp to cast Identify, which is a spell that lets you learn about an item during an action/10 mins instead of a short rest - because yeah, that's all it does, since it does not reveal curses or anything it simply does the exact same thing any character can do with a short rest... For that you pay 100 gp for a pearl, oh but blasting people with a finger of death or summoning meteor swarms is just an arcane word and a hand gesture?
The component system is ill-thought out and not balanced. I preferred 4th edition take where material components were only required for rituals (that makes sense to me, you use the synergy of the items to draw in the magic from the world instead of using up your own power). And in that edition (or was it 3.5?) no spellcaster needed a focus for any reason: but it could be used for flavour and some foci could confer extra bonuses/benefits.
Why should sorcerers need to utter arcane words or juggle items just to cast an innate power? It's like saying I only get to breathe for the next minute if I say a special word and hold a stone.
"I hold within my blood the great power of ancient dragons and I will unleash it to burn you from existence... When I recover my little stick (wand)." **** that shit thrice and pay a dollar, it's terribly stupid and restrictive and there's a reason why so many streams - including those run by the designers - don't follow these material components as RAW. If you want to play with the material components, then great, but if you don't then don't because it has no effect on game balance. It may have been intended as a balance mechanic but it utterly fails which is why many homebrew it away.
Getting rid of non-cost material components is great, and a necessity for sorcerers to be what they're supposed to be. Half the metamagic options are useful, but not enough to justify the pitiful spells known limitations and the other half are only useful in niche scenarios or utterly worthless (I'm looking at you, Careful spell). And yes, for the whole core feature of Sorcerer you get so little compared to other option=lists like battle manouvres, invocations, etc.
I agree with your tweaks wholeheartedly (except some of the spell choices for subclasses, but that's irrelevant to the overall point you're making).
I love the RP and concept of Sorcerers but I hate what D&D does to them. One of the few times I say take a cue from Pathfinder (where they only use S components get extra spells for each subclass and powers and skills, and where Detect Magic is a cantrip, because why the fluff wouldn't it be?).
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The way I run my campaigns is simply on components, very few spells like revivify or any other revival spell require something, its because that item is a trade for the person's/creature's soul.
@DxJxC I would like to hear about how casting without an arcane focus breaks game balance. Rangers do it all the time. A lot of Paladins and some clerics just incorporate their focus into their shield, which is basically like not needing a focus unless they are disarmed.
I've only just started playing a Sorcerer, so I don't yet have an opinion on # of spells know, but I do agree that having one or two more metamagics and having a way to either improve the conversion of spell slots to SPoints or having a short rest recovery mechanic for SPoints.
It isn't casting without an arcane focus, it is always having an arcane focus. Rangers need a component pouch to cast spells with a material component (as long as that component isn't ammo or something).
It keeps them from having their focus taken from them, making capture difficult and rendering survival campaigns moot. It also gives them an edge in action economy if they want to have weapons or a shield in both hands and not have to switch to their focus for spellcasting.
So, as my two copper, I like a lot of these changes.
Arcane Conduit is a good and thematic change IMO. The detect magic bit is a little odd, but if it fits your world, then more power to you.
Origin spells are also a good call, though like the others I have some disagreements with the spells chosen, which I also agree is largely irrelevant. In play at my tables, I work with the individual player to make a finalized version of their origin spells, which ends up being 1 spell known at spell levels 1-5. A 6th level spell known is tempting since that level contains some goodies (like the extremely thematic True Sight for the Draconic Sorcerer), but I've never made it to 11th level with a Sorcerer in my party anyway, so it's never come up.
More metamagics is good, but you're really crowding those lower levels with new features. At my table, I grant one more metamagic at levels 6 and 14, which spaces things out a bit more. I also don't change any of the metamagics.
Blood magic is a unique and interesting mechanic, but I'm not sure how it would work out in play. Depending on your table and the rest/combat schedule that comes about, it could be a huge boon (with little downside as resting allows the recovery of resources) or a huge pain (with little benefit as resources become strained). That kind of swinginess is something to be wary of.
As another note, a change that I've found to be very thematic and useful is the Spell Points variant from the DMG. Applying it to Sorcerers and adding Sorcery Points to the pool of Spell Points grants a huge amount of very unique flexibility. This is another feature to be wary of, however, because depending on your table's rest schedule it can be hugely overpowered.
All in all, I like a lot of this, but it's too much IMO. I would start smaller and see what works for your table before making big changes.
Thanks for the overall feedback so far :D
@Cyb3rM1nd: I agree with you that some material components don't really seem to make any sense at all and I am personally not a big fan of the component pouch lore (It just seems weird/silly to have to carry around batshit to cast a certain spell). I don't mind the arcane/divine focus rules but I think it is quite weird to impose it onto sorcerers that are magical by nature.
I see your point but I still think that this situation of capture is rare enough that it is okay to give the sorcerer an advantage. Also, I quickly checked the DnD beyond spell list and filtered for those that don't have a Material component. There are about 100 spells that could be cast by a sorcerer that don't require a material component so it's not like you can take away magic from them completely by taking away their focus.
There are other ways to "disarm" a sorcerer if it is really necessary I think. You could drug them or blindfold them (many spells need line of sight). Sublte spell makes it anyway very diffucult to restrain a sorcerer (assuming he has that metamagic anyhow).
Yeah the Detect magic part is quite specific to my setting I guess.
Haha most people here seem to unhappy with my spell choices. That's fine, the ones i posted were just some ideas. So I am curious to which ones people object? Any specific suggestions (except True Sight for Dragon sorcs)? Discussing it directly with the player in question is a good idea, even though that could end up in a lot of discussion about why spell X should be on their origin list xD
Spacing the additional metamagic features over a wider range of levels is a good middleground between only 1 additional and 2 additional ones I think. About making changes to them: I realize that this is quite tricky since it can have a big impact with the many spells they could be applied to. I just don't like how some of them have so very specific and niche uses that they only work properly with a handfull of spells, which in turn limits the sorcerer who has only a few spells to work with.
Of all the features I would be most interested in seeing how Blood magic would work out at the table and I really like the thematics of it as I said before.
I looked at the spell point system too and it sounds quite cool but as far as I read most people seem to think that this would be quite overpowered for the sorcerer. I guess it's the entire reason that the sorcery points <-> spell slot conversion results in a net-loss of rescources.
You asked for feedback, I gave it. Either way, I'll be running sorcerers unedited (maybe a homebrew subclass).
You are right and thanks for the input.
I just felt the urge to justify/defend my thoughts in answer to it :)
@GramPositive What kind of feedback are you looking for re: spell choices? How thematically appropriate they are?
To balance the Blood Magic hit points -> SPoints conversion, I might add that the level of exhaustion caused also reduces your normal hp recovery during short and long rests. Maybe you get only half the usual hp back. However, this would only seriously impact the character and the party if there were no healers, the healer was out of spells, and there are no healing potions. Well, to up the risk a bit, I would temporarily suspend their CON proficiency until they recover fully from their exhaustion level, which makes sense thematically and might have a big impact on the party's future decisions after seeing a concentration spell fail badly in the middle of a fight.
Homebrew is always pretty table-specific. Some tables, such as DxJxC's, take the components thing and spellcasting requirements very seriously (and Warcaster becomes a required feat for any mixed martial/caster, such as clerics or palladalladingdongs, on top of being overpoweringly good in general). Others basically handwave casting requirements until/unless a situation logically demands that picking those nits becomes important. Cleric casting Guiding Bolt on an enemy flying around with her hands stuffed with warhammer and shield? That's fine, clearly intended. Same cleric trying to Guiding Bolt in a Silence field, or with her hands bound? Then we're checking spell requirements.
Sorcerers being able to ignore costless material components (I'm assuming they'd still need to pay for big-badda-boom spells) seems appropriate, especially if the lore of your game leans heavily on them being One With Magic. I would, perhaps, specify that using your hands as an arcane focus this way causes them to glow/thrum with power, allowing them to bypass a normal focus at the cost of potentially ruining stealth, if it becomes a balance issue. The Detect Magic thing sounds like a world hack, which is fine.
Origin spells are a splendid idea, I always tried to ensure any sorcerer I built had spells mostly appropriate to their origin, but the Sorcerer spell list often makes that difficult. Helping players play their role more is a fine aspiration for a DM.
I'd be very careful with extra metamagic options. Metamagic is extremely powerful, the class was built with the idea of sorcerers not having access to every option they could want. One extra option at 6th level should be within the bounds of the game, but I'd hesitate to do more than that. That already gets you more than half the list by the end of the sorcerer's run. Would definitely step cautiously when adjusting a core class feature like this.
Blood Magic is an interesting idea, but the thematics aren't quite catching for me. I get what you're going for - expend vitality (i.e. 'blood') to regain arcane power, but remember that sorcery points can also be transformed into spell slots. You're potentially risking coffelock nonsense, if limited by hit dice availability. Any excuse to get players to actually remember they have hit dice and they should use them is good, but you're also potentially limiting the sorcerer's ability to recover after tough fights. I'm not sure how to tweak the idea to feel right without risking nonsense, however. Sorry.
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