Would you use a generated culture to help you create a new one for your setting?
I have definitely borrowed from various cultures to create my own. For example, in the many years I've DMed in my Homebrew, no one has really played a Monk. However in my monthly game I now run (well, been running for like... 2 or 3 years?) - two of the players are Monks. So I wanted to take the opportunity to create an entire region where the Monk lore and teachings all come from - so I looked up things in Japan, China, and any country that had anything to do with Monks. I looked up their practices, and took a little from here and there. Then I literally took the map of Japan, shuffled it around, and moved it to create a new series of islands - and that's where a whole story spawned about the origin of Hobgoblins also coming from this region (as risen spirits of deceased Monks and Samurai) - twisted by the goblin god, who wanted greater warriors - so he captured ascending pure souls and mixed them with the fallen souls of his goblins and created Hobgoblins.
I will never farm out worldbuilding to a bot. That's my absolute favorite part of running a campaign and I usually have more ideas than I can use anyway. A computer can help me build a dungeon all day long, but NPCs and societal structures? Nah.
Would you use a generated culture to help you create a new one for your setting?
I have definitely borrowed from various cultures to create my own. For example, in the many years I've DMed in my Homebrew, no one has really played a Monk. However in my monthly game I now run (well, been running for like... 2 or 3 years?) - two of the players are Monks. So I wanted to take the opportunity to create an entire region where the Monk lore and teachings all come from - so I looked up things in Japan, China, and any country that had anything to do with Monks. I looked up their practices, and took a little from here and there. Then I literally took the map of Japan, shuffled it around, and moved it to create a new series of islands - and that's where a whole story spawned about the origin of Hobgoblins also coming from this region (as risen spirits of deceased Monks and Samurai) - twisted by the goblin god, who wanted greater warriors - so he captured ascending pure souls and mixed them with the fallen souls of his goblins and created Hobgoblins.
That is really cool!
I have spent the last two hours generating cultures that I may never use, but I will be damned if I am going to have another six months of mind blank. I even did one where I combined Islam and Shinto -- and note that I left out religious beliefs from the question on purpose. It was quite a trip.
Hmmm. Shaolin and the wild west...
Fantasy Name for the place: Shaowild
Term for the people: Shaowilders
Term for the products of the people: Shaostone
Description of climate and topography: Shaowild is a land of rugged terrain and harsh, dry climate, with rocky hills, canyons, and arid deserts. The Shaowilders are known for their survival skills in this challenging environment, and for their mastery of martial arts.
What they are known for and how they are seen by others: The Shaowilders are renowned for their expertise in martial arts and their fierce independence. However, they are also often seen as outlaws by those outside of their culture, due to their reputation as gunslingers and bandits.
Government form and leadership: Shaowild is a loose confederation of independent communities, each led by a council of elders. There is no centralized government, and disputes between communities are often settled through duels or other forms of combat.
Politics and current intrigues: The Shaowilders are fiercely independent and resistant to outside interference, and there is often tension between them and other neighboring cultures who seek to exert control over the region. Additionally, there are often power struggles within and between communities over resources and leadership.
Economic system and approach: The Shaowilders primarily engage in trade with neighboring cultures, exchanging their Shaostone for goods and resources they cannot produce themselves. They also often work as hired guns or bandits for hire. The Shaowilders use a barter system, with no standardized coinage.
Top seven trade goods: Shaostone, firearms, horses, cattle, spices, textiles, and alcohol.
Five things they import: Grain, lumber, metals, medicine, and luxury goods.
Three most important exports: Shaostone, firearms, and horses.
Three persons of importance:
The Grandmaster - The leader of the Shaolin Temple in Shaowild, who oversees the training of martial artists and acts as a spiritual guide to the Shaowilders.
The Gunslinger - A legendary figure among the Shaowilders, known for their skill with a firearm and their daring exploits.
The Outlaw Queen - A powerful bandit leader who commands a large group of outlaws and operates outside of traditional Shaowilder society.
Three culture heroes and why they are heroes:
The Defender - A legendary Shaowilder warrior who defended their community against overwhelming odds.
The Explorer - A brave adventurer who charted new territory and discovered valuable resources.
The Peacemaker - A wise mediator who brought an end to a long-standing feud between two rival communities.
Three myths of this culture:
The Legend of the Shaostone - According to legend, the Shaostone was given to the Shaowilders by the gods as a symbol of their strength and resilience.
The Tale of the Gunslinger - A popular story of a lone gunslinger who fought against corrupt officials and bandits to bring justice to the people.
The Saga of the Outlaw Queen - A epic poem that tells the story of a fierce bandit leader who challenged the authority of the ruling elite and became a folk hero to the common people.
Factions that exist within the culture:
The Shaolin Temple - The spiritual center of Shaowilder culture, dedicated to the study and practice of martial arts.
The Outlaws - A loose alliance of bandit groups who operate outside of traditional Shaowilder society.
The Elders - The leaders of each community, who often have their own agendas and rivalries.
Common caste and/or social classes: The Shaowilders have a relatively egalitarian society, with little distinction between them.
Architecture: The buildings in Shaolindale are mostly inspired by the traditional architecture of the Shaolin temples, with intricate designs and ornamentation. The houses of the common folk are typically wooden and simple, with thatched or tiled roofs. However, the homes of the wealthy and powerful are often more elaborate, featuring ornate carvings, gardens, and courtyards. In the patriarchal areas of Shaolindale, the architecture is more inspired by the Wild West, with wooden buildings and large porches.
Cuisine: The food in Shaolindale is hearty and flavorful, with dishes that are heavily influenced by the surrounding landscapes. The cuisine is primarily vegetarian, with a focus on rice, vegetables, and tofu. Common dishes include steamed buns, dumplings, and stir-fried noodles. In the patriarchal areas, meat dishes are more common, including grilled meats and stews.
Shared values: In Shaolindale, honor, discipline, and respect are highly valued. The people are known for their strong work ethic, loyalty to family and community, and a reverence for tradition. However, the patriarchal areas of Shaolindale have a more individualistic culture, with a focus on personal freedom and ambition.
Gender roles and expectations: In the matrilineal areas of Shaolindale, women hold significant power and authority, and are often the leaders of their families and communities. Men are traditionally responsible for physical labor and defense. In contrast, the patriarchal areas of Shaolindale have a more traditional gender role division, with men holding power and women expected to fulfill traditional roles such as homemaking and child-rearing.
Marriage rituals and inheritance: In the matrilineal areas, inheritance is passed down through the female line, with daughters inheriting from their mothers. Marriage is viewed as a union between equals, and both parties must consent to the union. In the patriarchal areas, inheritance is passed down through the male line, and marriage is viewed as a transaction, with women often seen as property.
Education and literacy: Education is highly valued in Shaolindale, and children attend schools where they learn martial arts, history, and philosophy. Literacy rates are high, with many people able to read and write.
Festivals and celebrations: Shaolindale has a variety of festivals and celebrations throughout the year. The most important festival is the Spring Festival, which celebrates the Chinese New Year. Other festivals include the Mid-Autumn Festival, the Dragon Boat Festival, and the Lantern Festival. In the patriarchal areas, celebrations are more focused on individual achievement and personal success.
Languages: The people of Shaolindale speak a variety of languages, including Mandarin and various dialects. In the patriarchal areas, English is also commonly spoken.
Symbols and lifestyle: The symbol of Shaolindale is a lotus flower, which represents purity, enlightenment, and spiritual awakening. The people of Shaolindale are known for their dedication to martial arts, meditation, and spiritual enlightenment. They are also known for their discipline, work ethic, and commitment to tradition. In the patriarchal areas, individualism and personal ambition are highly valued, and people are more focused on personal success and achievement.
Overall, life in Shaolindale is a mix of ancient Chinese and Wild West cultures, with unique customs and traditions that set it apart from other cultures in the fantasy world.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I will never farm out worldbuilding to a bot. That's my absolute favorite part of running a campaign and I usually have more ideas than I can use anyway. A computer can help me build a dungeon all day long, but NPCs and societal structures? Nah.
I have 38 cultures that I can now use as seeds going forward, even though I don't need any cultures right now, lol. No plans to really use them, but if the next phase does start exploring the world, I am now prepared -- or if they go to a different Mortal Realm (dimension), I an wing something.
But they don't have the interplay --they don't interact with each other or have the fluidity that I like.
I have managed to teach my current session to pick its own cultural basis -- it chose a viking and incan mix and it is hilarious.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I might use the bot to see what it would say, maybe get some inspiration, but I would not use it to create an entire culture so that I wouldn’t have to do the work. I already have so many ideas and I will never be able to use all of them. I don’t need a bot to do my work for me. I dislike using technology for anything, and my nickname is Grandpa because of how technologically challenged I am, so it may be that I am biased. But, it wouldn’t feel right to me to fit an artificially created culture into the world that I have spent ages creating. It feels almost like cheating.
I might use the bot to see what it would say, maybe get some inspiration, but I would not use it to create an entire culture so that I wouldn’t have to do the work. I already have so many ideas and I will never be able to use all of them. I don’t need a bot to do my work for me. I dislike using technology for anything, and my nickname is Grandpa because of how technologically challenged I am, so it may be that I am biased. But, it wouldn’t feel right to me to fit an artificially created culture into the world that I have spent ages creating. It feels almost like cheating.
Fair points, but at the same time, if you ever need a robot culture... it would almost be offensive to do it yourself.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I might use the bot to see what it would say, maybe get some inspiration, but I would not use it to create an entire culture so that I wouldn’t have to do the work. I already have so many ideas and I will never be able to use all of them. I don’t need a bot to do my work for me. I dislike using technology for anything, and my nickname is Grandpa because of how technologically challenged I am, so it may be that I am biased. But, it wouldn’t feel right to me to fit an artificially created culture into the world that I have spent ages creating. It feels almost like cheating.
Fair points, but at the same time, if you ever need a robot culture... it would almost be offensive to do it yourself.
I will never farm out worldbuilding to a bot. That's my absolute favorite part of running a campaign and I usually have more ideas than I can use anyway. A computer can help me build a dungeon all day long, but NPCs and societal structures? Nah.
I will never farm out worldbuilding to a bot. That's my absolute favorite part of running a campaign and I usually have more ideas than I can use anyway. A computer can help me build a dungeon all day long, but NPCs and societal structures? Nah.
I don't think she meant a bot specifically?
If so, I misunderstood. I've never used a bot.
well, Chat Gpt, for all the press it is getting and such is, really, still just a bot, no matter what more precise terminology they drop on it.
and she’s right — turning over worldbuilding to something like that is just, well, icky, lol.
I am excited because as a sociologist, I want like to focus on the cool parts to me, and something like this could never replace the process for me, since it involves not only having the cultures, but also shifting them through the history of the world and the relations to their neighbors over time, giving a tweak here and there because religion, the classes, and more all have an effect.
but what it does is very much like having a low resolution 3D printer does: rapid prototyping and swift base dev to enable the more creative, more human, more difficult to predict stuff, and no matter how many of the cultures I create, there is still a degree of repetition, to be expected in a tool.
that I like. That I find value in.
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Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Question: when making a pantheon, what rules do you follow?
Heh. So my homebrew world has been going on for... phew, in total, probably over 20 years? The deities I created were all originally based off a cross between Norse mythology and the deities from the game Realms of Arkania (or The Dark Eye RPG which said computer game, which I loved back then, was based on). When I created them - I liked having themes to the deities to represent things, the way many deities do - Loki, for lies and mischief, Odin the All Father, Thor, god of Thunder; etc. However, because I also love to accommodate my players I've introduced new deities over the years if it matches something for their character story... and I even roughly named a few after friends.
As such, my pantheon got entirely too large - and I had a many events adventure where the party was helping the Mountain Dwarves against the Drow - to stop the Drow Priestess from "ascending" and awakening their long forgotten goddess (essentially the same as Lloth) - the party stopped the war, but the Priestess was able to awaken Lloth from her webbed slumber and the spider queen murdered about eight gods before she was banished. It was just one way of cleaning up the pantheon, showing some impact (as many priests/clerics in the world - no cleric characters were impacted, as none followed the murdered deities) - but the world had a whole thing where many Churches were claiming the end times were coming because their gods had gone silent.
Now that same party acquired a Spelljammer several sessions ago and are chasing a Beholder who has a gem that came from the god of Knowledge that was bestowed originally to a priest (long since dead) - but the gem bestows all kinds of knowledge, but tends to drive the person insane because it never stops bestowing knowledge - never - but the Beholder, already insane has learned how he can become a god - so the party is chasing him to try and stop him...
And their spelljammer is headed for an area I call "The Sea of Dead Gods" - where they will see massive (thousands of feet tall) misty figures - frozen in the time of the death that represent the dead gods murdered by the spider queen.
Did... did I even answer your question... or ramble... again?
Question: when making a pantheon, what rules do you follow?
I tend to make my pantheons have 3 primary gods, each representing a different magic. Evil magic, neutral magic, and good magic.
No rules. If at the beginning I need some BIG gods (like an Ao or whatever) or some "little" gods (like a god of bookbinding and a god of plagiarism) that's how I start. If the game goes in a direction where the pantheon is no longer adequate, new higher powers and structures to those higher powers are revealed if they don't outright intervene
Gods being like the one of thing with like entity with agency status in the game yet with no stats makes them the easiest thing for a DM to manipulate, contort and put on or take off the table.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Question: when making a pantheon, what rules do you follow?
I tend to make my pantheons have 3 primary gods, each representing a different magic. Evil magic, neutral magic, and good magic.
it depends on what I want the cosmology and eschatology to be, really, more than anything else. In general, I suffer from too much education, and so see far too many practical flaws in the idea of pantheons as done in game to really be able to do a regular pantheon any longer.
lost the willing suspension of disbelief, as it were.
that said, lol, I have the PIE gods as what basically are vestiges, and not really active, while I have what is otherwise a Group of just gods, all of whom are basically “the one god”, with all manner of personalities but none of them are gods of anything.
normally I have about five who are just names on a paper. No real basis for them. Haven’t had a real pantheon in well over a decade.
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Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I usually start with one. Then my players help to create others as the game progresses. If they want to have a god of XX, no problem! Do the bad guys they just met have a god? Sure! it's ZZ.
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"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
So what most of you are saying is that you should make your gods as you go? Got it.
If it works for religions, it can work for Dungeons and Dragons as well.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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Many DMs also make up the world as they go. Nothing wrong with world building, but many DMs also prefer to "build out" as the game plays.
When I was a lot younger I thought I needed to build a world big at the start of the campaign, and I made map of that world, it covered a modest dinner table. That campaign covered maybe six square inches of this epic map (that had a sort of cyclopedia written for it too ... this was all by hand pre-digital mapping and I had a typewriter).
These days, if my party takes on the pursuit of the Yellow King into the uncharted Reaching Wastes ... I don't have to plan an encounter cycle with the Yellow King's Carcosian Citadel being exactly 20 hexes into the map. The party gets to the Yellow King's Carcosian Citadel when the party has exhausted my and their interests in the trackless wastes.
I think some DMs who have GM experience in games like Traveller where star systems can be built quite literally on the fly with some quick table consultation are more comfortable sort of winging it with D&D worlds. To be fair, official 5e doesn't really provide a lot of guidance in developing the unknown so I can see quite a few folks thinking they better have it all worked out. I want to say AD&D's Wilderness Survival Guide had some world building on the fly in its system, not sure about other editions. But really, specific pantheons, major political or magical or military powers, how many oceans, I'm firmly in the camp that will encourage you to do it _if you enjoy doing that_. Religions can be wrong, or a whole faith can convert or experience schisms. Maps are sometimes or even often wrong. And with magic things can appear and disappear with little rationale explanation. R'lyeh only beckons to certain sensitive minds when the stars are right type stuff. People point to various famous game worlds and how richly developed they are ... how long have those campaigns been going on before they became famous worlds? The more fun worlds, including them, I feel, are the ones that are built by play through.
Question: when making a pantheon, what rules do you follow?
I tend to make my pantheons have 3 primary gods, each representing a different magic. Evil magic, neutral magic, and good magic.
I think I understand what AEDorsay said about suffering from education. I know that a pantheon like the ones in Dnd has some large flaws, but I enjoy creating "gods" and think they are fun, so I have a pantheon anyway.
I said "gods" because they aren't actually gods. They might be immortal, but they can be killed, challenged, and mortals can become one of them, so they aren't actually gods. But I can't think of a different word for them, and clerics serve them, so I use the word anyway. It helps others understand them more.
Anyways, back to your question about pantheon rules. I don't think I really follow any. My pantheon consists of whatever I found cool, funny, or interesting from real world mythology. Or it includes weird products of my imagination. The gods in my world don't even originate from there. They came down in a meteor from the celestial planes, killing the dinosaurs and the Ancients, the godlike powers that ruled the dinosaur era. Currently my pantheon includes Xolotl, Hephaestus, Axomama, Dionysus, Pan, Perun, Veles, Uruchillay, The Morrigan, Arachne, The Norns, The Grim Sweeper (who isn't really a god), Clang Lord of Buckets, The Porpoise of Life, Rhydern (based off the Snow Goose), Oothret the Owl Lord of Knowledge, Alioth the Sun Archer, Elioth the Moon Archer, Nystrai the Shard Queen, Bandolin God of Music, Bumber god of slumber, Gryxdanther dreamlord of beholders, Derf lord of rebellion( appears as a rebellious teenager. wears pants backwards, hat backwards, wears sunglasses indoors, punk) and then there is Tiamat, Bahamut, Kurtulamak, Lolth, and a few others from Forgotten realms. Tebo the footbal player and Cubby Bear are lesser deities. Plenty of Demigods. There are plenty of others that I can't think of off the top of my head. If a player wants to add more, fine by me. I will always be adding more when they pop in my head or when I read something cool in mythology.
Not a question of the day: If something can be killed, is it truly immortal?
Mortality means something that dies. Immortality means something that does not die.
Undying is a better term, perhaps, but in D&D that gets drawn into the fury and storm of the Undead.
Omnipotent is all powerful, omniscient is all knowing, Omni is a defunct magazine about science and science fiction.
What are the aspects of worship? What are the rites and ceremonies, and how do they take place?
What is the linkage to the afterlife, and what happens beyond death of the mortal shell?
IS the spirit or the soul or both -- is the anima itself eternal and immortal, or is it a reflection of what was, merely a mindless form of energy or matter?
What is the distinction between the spirit, the soul, the mind, and the heart?
is there an End of All Things? What was the Beginning of All Things?
Proto-Indo-Europeans were a large, scattered culture that led and fed into the hallstatt culture. The basic concepts they carried included a pantheon of personifications that by the time they had trickled down to the Greek civilization were thought of as The Titans -- an earlier pantheon. The PIE folks were different from the Mesopotamian folks, and were the forebears to all the great pantheons from India to Ireland. Their language is the parent of all the European ones, so even the very ways we are able to think about and consider such things are limited by their influence. the way that Western authors ran roughshod and changed early records of folklore and myth among the many different peoples in the Americas is only a tiny example of this.
It is why Eastern and Southeastern Asian pantheons seem so strange to Western thinking -- and India was caught between the two underlying forces, making them seem strange to all.
The D&D Pantheon system is meant to allow you to not have to deal with all of that. the entire cosmology is meant that way, with the Great Wheel and the many different afterlives becoming Planes. Because don't forget that -- the Great Wheel of the multiverse is where D&D characters go when they die, and alignment is tied to that because how true you are to your alignment says where you will end up and the judge for that is all the gods of the multiverse.
It is why I don't use it. Yes, they have changed it from including Heaven and Paradise and altered it so that they are places to adventure, but those were decisions made in part out of people getting angry about that whole aspect of the game (and not just the ones who didn't play -- plenty who did were angry about it).
And if I go too long, I will start to point out some of the other major flaws that feed back into things in the game itself as a whole that folks want to get rid of, and yet because that portion isn't fully understood people aren't going to be able to deal with that, lol.
Might as well just have Manwe or Aule be hanging around. One of my giggles is that over the last 40 years, D&D went from "one set of gods" to "all the races have gods", and the "all the races have gods" thing is a modern development that can be traced back to a limited set of sources. Before then, it was always one set of gods for eveyone, and there wasn't a lot of dualism with the Evil Gods and the Good Gods.
Too much information in my head. As I noted before, I have a God of Nothing, No One, Nobody. this power is Nothingness personified, the existence of a liminal being who does not exist until someone does the silly thing "nobody would do that".
I loved the book American Gods, and when I do that paranormal campaign, i might just use an idea from it for Gods in a pantheon. Because while D&D sets pantheons up as "just a collection of gods", that's not how they work in reality, in the source material, so to speak.
And Religion is such a huge part of every culture to ever exist on this planet, that to give a culture like any of the ones I created an existence without it is to kinda betray the very essence of why I love creating cultures so much -- religion influences everything in them. Why do you take your shoes off before entering a building or coming before a ruler? People will say it is about dirt, but religion is the underlying cause of that -- the force that made it a custom.
That is what I mean by I am too educated, lol.
It was not said in a positive manner, because all of it interferes with my ability to enjoy a lot of stuff that I once used to take for granted and have fun with, but it also gave me new ways to have fun with it and new ways to think about all of it, and that's why I had to answer with "it depends on the eschatology".
What is the role of the Cleric in the game world? Are they just a healer mage who is less squishy than a boomer mage? Are they Holy Warriors for the God's? Are the knights? -- but still not paladins, of course.
Or are they the True Believers, the Priests, the community organizers and holders of Moral authority? Yes, yes, they get cool powers and all -- but is that their role in the world. How does a common person react to them when they wander into a village -- are they now a Holy figure, or are they reviled, or are they just ignored?
How does what they do differ from a Paladin? Again, not in terms of class, but in terms of their place in the world? This isn't about what archetype are they, but how did they become an archetype. Friar Tuck fits no core basis for any Clerical class, and yet he is an essential cog in the whole. He never shows wondrous powers, he's portly but beloved, and his role was to care for the physical, spiritual, and moral needs of not just Robin Hood's Merry Men, but of the people in the villages they sought to protect, often against the way the church itself thought things should be done.
Paksenarrion is possibly the best story of a Paladin I have ever seen. It was totally and admittedly based on D&D 1e. The source material for both Paladins and Clerics -- the Companions of Charlemagne -- treats Priests and Clerics as pretty much useful tools, but they became the basis for two classes, and then the servant of the gods with extra powers was tacked on, lol.
And what is the difference between a Cleric and Priest? Tuck was away from a church; he was a Friar, after all, and he surely did get involved in battles as the proto-Bard would attest.
I know, I have rambled, I apologize. But this is all what I do like to play with now. The other stuff -- because I can't find as much joy in the panethen stuff as I once did.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
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I have definitely borrowed from various cultures to create my own. For example, in the many years I've DMed in my Homebrew, no one has really played a Monk. However in my monthly game I now run (well, been running for like... 2 or 3 years?) - two of the players are Monks. So I wanted to take the opportunity to create an entire region where the Monk lore and teachings all come from - so I looked up things in Japan, China, and any country that had anything to do with Monks. I looked up their practices, and took a little from here and there. Then I literally took the map of Japan, shuffled it around, and moved it to create a new series of islands - and that's where a whole story spawned about the origin of Hobgoblins also coming from this region (as risen spirits of deceased Monks and Samurai) - twisted by the goblin god, who wanted greater warriors - so he captured ascending pure souls and mixed them with the fallen souls of his goblins and created Hobgoblins.
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Nope.
I will never farm out worldbuilding to a bot. That's my absolute favorite part of running a campaign and I usually have more ideas than I can use anyway. A computer can help me build a dungeon all day long, but NPCs and societal structures? Nah.
That is really cool!
I have spent the last two hours generating cultures that I may never use, but I will be damned if I am going to have another six months of mind blank. I even did one where I combined Islam and Shinto -- and note that I left out religious beliefs from the question on purpose. It was quite a trip.
Hmmm. Shaolin and the wild west...
Fantasy Name for the place: Shaowild
Term for the people: Shaowilders
Term for the products of the people: Shaostone
Description of climate and topography: Shaowild is a land of rugged terrain and harsh, dry climate, with rocky hills, canyons, and arid deserts. The Shaowilders are known for their survival skills in this challenging environment, and for their mastery of martial arts.
What they are known for and how they are seen by others: The Shaowilders are renowned for their expertise in martial arts and their fierce independence. However, they are also often seen as outlaws by those outside of their culture, due to their reputation as gunslingers and bandits.
Government form and leadership: Shaowild is a loose confederation of independent communities, each led by a council of elders. There is no centralized government, and disputes between communities are often settled through duels or other forms of combat.
Politics and current intrigues: The Shaowilders are fiercely independent and resistant to outside interference, and there is often tension between them and other neighboring cultures who seek to exert control over the region. Additionally, there are often power struggles within and between communities over resources and leadership.
Economic system and approach: The Shaowilders primarily engage in trade with neighboring cultures, exchanging their Shaostone for goods and resources they cannot produce themselves. They also often work as hired guns or bandits for hire. The Shaowilders use a barter system, with no standardized coinage.
Top seven trade goods: Shaostone, firearms, horses, cattle, spices, textiles, and alcohol.
Five things they import: Grain, lumber, metals, medicine, and luxury goods.
Three most important exports: Shaostone, firearms, and horses.
Three persons of importance:
Three culture heroes and why they are heroes:
Three myths of this culture:
Factions that exist within the culture:
Common caste and/or social classes: The Shaowilders have a relatively egalitarian society, with little distinction between them.
Architecture: The buildings in Shaolindale are mostly inspired by the traditional architecture of the Shaolin temples, with intricate designs and ornamentation. The houses of the common folk are typically wooden and simple, with thatched or tiled roofs. However, the homes of the wealthy and powerful are often more elaborate, featuring ornate carvings, gardens, and courtyards. In the patriarchal areas of Shaolindale, the architecture is more inspired by the Wild West, with wooden buildings and large porches.
Cuisine: The food in Shaolindale is hearty and flavorful, with dishes that are heavily influenced by the surrounding landscapes. The cuisine is primarily vegetarian, with a focus on rice, vegetables, and tofu. Common dishes include steamed buns, dumplings, and stir-fried noodles. In the patriarchal areas, meat dishes are more common, including grilled meats and stews.
Shared values: In Shaolindale, honor, discipline, and respect are highly valued. The people are known for their strong work ethic, loyalty to family and community, and a reverence for tradition. However, the patriarchal areas of Shaolindale have a more individualistic culture, with a focus on personal freedom and ambition.
Gender roles and expectations: In the matrilineal areas of Shaolindale, women hold significant power and authority, and are often the leaders of their families and communities. Men are traditionally responsible for physical labor and defense. In contrast, the patriarchal areas of Shaolindale have a more traditional gender role division, with men holding power and women expected to fulfill traditional roles such as homemaking and child-rearing.
Marriage rituals and inheritance: In the matrilineal areas, inheritance is passed down through the female line, with daughters inheriting from their mothers. Marriage is viewed as a union between equals, and both parties must consent to the union. In the patriarchal areas, inheritance is passed down through the male line, and marriage is viewed as a transaction, with women often seen as property.
Education and literacy: Education is highly valued in Shaolindale, and children attend schools where they learn martial arts, history, and philosophy. Literacy rates are high, with many people able to read and write.
Festivals and celebrations: Shaolindale has a variety of festivals and celebrations throughout the year. The most important festival is the Spring Festival, which celebrates the Chinese New Year. Other festivals include the Mid-Autumn Festival, the Dragon Boat Festival, and the Lantern Festival. In the patriarchal areas, celebrations are more focused on individual achievement and personal success.
Languages: The people of Shaolindale speak a variety of languages, including Mandarin and various dialects. In the patriarchal areas, English is also commonly spoken.
Symbols and lifestyle: The symbol of Shaolindale is a lotus flower, which represents purity, enlightenment, and spiritual awakening. The people of Shaolindale are known for their dedication to martial arts, meditation, and spiritual enlightenment. They are also known for their discipline, work ethic, and commitment to tradition. In the patriarchal areas, individualism and personal ambition are highly valued, and people are more focused on personal success and achievement.
Overall, life in Shaolindale is a mix of ancient Chinese and Wild West cultures, with unique customs and traditions that set it apart from other cultures in the fantasy world.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
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Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I have 38 cultures that I can now use as seeds going forward, even though I don't need any cultures right now, lol. No plans to really use them, but if the next phase does start exploring the world, I am now prepared -- or if they go to a different Mortal Realm (dimension), I an wing something.
But they don't have the interplay --they don't interact with each other or have the fluidity that I like.
I have managed to teach my current session to pick its own cultural basis -- it chose a viking and incan mix and it is hilarious.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
About the artificially created cultures:
I might use the bot to see what it would say, maybe get some inspiration, but I would not use it to create an entire culture so that I wouldn’t have to do the work. I already have so many ideas and I will never be able to use all of them. I don’t need a bot to do my work for me. I dislike using technology for anything, and my nickname is Grandpa because of how technologically challenged I am, so it may be that I am biased. But, it wouldn’t feel right to me to fit an artificially created culture into the world that I have spent ages creating. It feels almost like cheating.
Fair points, but at the same time, if you ever need a robot culture... it would almost be offensive to do it yourself.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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Good point.
I don't think she meant a bot specifically?
If so, I misunderstood. I've never used a bot.
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well, Chat Gpt, for all the press it is getting and such is, really, still just a bot, no matter what more precise terminology they drop on it.
and she’s right — turning over worldbuilding to something like that is just, well, icky, lol.
I am excited because as a sociologist, I want like to focus on the cool parts to me, and something like this could never replace the process for me, since it involves not only having the cultures, but also shifting them through the history of the world and the relations to their neighbors over time, giving a tweak here and there because religion, the classes, and more all have an effect.
but what it does is very much like having a low resolution 3D printer does: rapid prototyping and swift base dev to enable the more creative, more human, more difficult to predict stuff, and no matter how many of the cultures I create, there is still a degree of repetition, to be expected in a tool.
that I like. That I find value in.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
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Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Question: when making a pantheon, what rules do you follow?
I tend to make my pantheons have 3 primary gods, each representing a different magic. Evil magic, neutral magic, and good magic.
Hi, I’m DrakenBrine, here’s my Sig and characters
I am The Grand Envisioner!
Heh. So my homebrew world has been going on for... phew, in total, probably over 20 years? The deities I created were all originally based off a cross between Norse mythology and the deities from the game Realms of Arkania (or The Dark Eye RPG which said computer game, which I loved back then, was based on). When I created them - I liked having themes to the deities to represent things, the way many deities do - Loki, for lies and mischief, Odin the All Father, Thor, god of Thunder; etc. However, because I also love to accommodate my players I've introduced new deities over the years if it matches something for their character story... and I even roughly named a few after friends.
As such, my pantheon got entirely too large - and I had a many events adventure where the party was helping the Mountain Dwarves against the Drow - to stop the Drow Priestess from "ascending" and awakening their long forgotten goddess (essentially the same as Lloth) - the party stopped the war, but the Priestess was able to awaken Lloth from her webbed slumber and the spider queen murdered about eight gods before she was banished. It was just one way of cleaning up the pantheon, showing some impact (as many priests/clerics in the world - no cleric characters were impacted, as none followed the murdered deities) - but the world had a whole thing where many Churches were claiming the end times were coming because their gods had gone silent.
Now that same party acquired a Spelljammer several sessions ago and are chasing a Beholder who has a gem that came from the god of Knowledge that was bestowed originally to a priest (long since dead) - but the gem bestows all kinds of knowledge, but tends to drive the person insane because it never stops bestowing knowledge - never - but the Beholder, already insane has learned how he can become a god - so the party is chasing him to try and stop him...
And their spelljammer is headed for an area I call "The Sea of Dead Gods" - where they will see massive (thousands of feet tall) misty figures - frozen in the time of the death that represent the dead gods murdered by the spider queen.
Did... did I even answer your question... or ramble... again?
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No rules. If at the beginning I need some BIG gods (like an Ao or whatever) or some "little" gods (like a god of bookbinding and a god of plagiarism) that's how I start. If the game goes in a direction where the pantheon is no longer adequate, new higher powers and structures to those higher powers are revealed if they don't outright intervene
Gods being like the one of thing with like entity with agency status in the game yet with no stats makes them the easiest thing for a DM to manipulate, contort and put on or take off the table.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
it depends on what I want the cosmology and eschatology to be, really, more than anything else. In general, I suffer from too much education, and so see far too many practical flaws in the idea of pantheons as done in game to really be able to do a regular pantheon any longer.
lost the willing suspension of disbelief, as it were.
that said, lol, I have the PIE gods as what basically are vestiges, and not really active, while I have what is otherwise a Group of just gods, all of whom are basically “the one god”, with all manner of personalities but none of them are gods of anything.
normally I have about five who are just names on a paper. No real basis for them. Haven’t had a real pantheon in well over a decade.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I usually start with one. Then my players help to create others as the game progresses. If they want to have a god of XX, no problem! Do the bad guys they just met have a god? Sure! it's ZZ.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
So what most of you are saying is that you should make your gods as you go? Got it.
Hi, I’m DrakenBrine, here’s my Sig and characters
I am The Grand Envisioner!
If it works for religions, it can work for Dungeons and Dragons as well.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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That seems a bit insulting to people of religious faith.
Hi, I’m DrakenBrine, here’s my Sig and characters
I am The Grand Envisioner!
Many DMs also make up the world as they go. Nothing wrong with world building, but many DMs also prefer to "build out" as the game plays.
When I was a lot younger I thought I needed to build a world big at the start of the campaign, and I made map of that world, it covered a modest dinner table. That campaign covered maybe six square inches of this epic map (that had a sort of cyclopedia written for it too ... this was all by hand pre-digital mapping and I had a typewriter).
These days, if my party takes on the pursuit of the Yellow King into the uncharted Reaching Wastes ... I don't have to plan an encounter cycle with the Yellow King's Carcosian Citadel being exactly 20 hexes into the map. The party gets to the Yellow King's Carcosian Citadel when the party has exhausted my and their interests in the trackless wastes.
I think some DMs who have GM experience in games like Traveller where star systems can be built quite literally on the fly with some quick table consultation are more comfortable sort of winging it with D&D worlds. To be fair, official 5e doesn't really provide a lot of guidance in developing the unknown so I can see quite a few folks thinking they better have it all worked out. I want to say AD&D's Wilderness Survival Guide had some world building on the fly in its system, not sure about other editions. But really, specific pantheons, major political or magical or military powers, how many oceans, I'm firmly in the camp that will encourage you to do it _if you enjoy doing that_. Religions can be wrong, or a whole faith can convert or experience schisms. Maps are sometimes or even often wrong. And with magic things can appear and disappear with little rationale explanation. R'lyeh only beckons to certain sensitive minds when the stars are right type stuff. People point to various famous game worlds and how richly developed they are ... how long have those campaigns been going on before they became famous worlds? The more fun worlds, including them, I feel, are the ones that are built by play through.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I think I understand what AEDorsay said about suffering from education. I know that a pantheon like the ones in Dnd has some large flaws, but I enjoy creating "gods" and think they are fun, so I have a pantheon anyway.
I said "gods" because they aren't actually gods. They might be immortal, but they can be killed, challenged, and mortals can become one of them, so they aren't actually gods. But I can't think of a different word for them, and clerics serve them, so I use the word anyway. It helps others understand them more.
Anyways, back to your question about pantheon rules. I don't think I really follow any. My pantheon consists of whatever I found cool, funny, or interesting from real world mythology. Or it includes weird products of my imagination. The gods in my world don't even originate from there. They came down in a meteor from the celestial planes, killing the dinosaurs and the Ancients, the godlike powers that ruled the dinosaur era. Currently my pantheon includes Xolotl, Hephaestus, Axomama, Dionysus, Pan, Perun, Veles, Uruchillay, The Morrigan, Arachne, The Norns, The Grim Sweeper (who isn't really a god), Clang Lord of Buckets, The Porpoise of Life, Rhydern (based off the Snow Goose), Oothret the Owl Lord of Knowledge, Alioth the Sun Archer, Elioth the Moon Archer, Nystrai the Shard Queen, Bandolin God of Music, Bumber god of slumber, Gryxdanther dreamlord of beholders, Derf lord of rebellion( appears as a rebellious teenager. wears pants backwards, hat backwards, wears sunglasses indoors, punk) and then there is Tiamat, Bahamut, Kurtulamak, Lolth, and a few others from Forgotten realms. Tebo the footbal player and Cubby Bear are lesser deities. Plenty of Demigods. There are plenty of others that I can't think of off the top of my head. If a player wants to add more, fine by me. I will always be adding more when they pop in my head or when I read something cool in mythology.
Not a question of the day: If something can be killed, is it truly immortal?
Mortality means something that dies. Immortality means something that does not die.
Undying is a better term, perhaps, but in D&D that gets drawn into the fury and storm of the Undead.
Omnipotent is all powerful, omniscient is all knowing, Omni is a defunct magazine about science and science fiction.
What are the aspects of worship? What are the rites and ceremonies, and how do they take place?
What is the linkage to the afterlife, and what happens beyond death of the mortal shell?
IS the spirit or the soul or both -- is the anima itself eternal and immortal, or is it a reflection of what was, merely a mindless form of energy or matter?
What is the distinction between the spirit, the soul, the mind, and the heart?
is there an End of All Things? What was the Beginning of All Things?
Proto-Indo-Europeans were a large, scattered culture that led and fed into the hallstatt culture. The basic concepts they carried included a pantheon of personifications that by the time they had trickled down to the Greek civilization were thought of as The Titans -- an earlier pantheon. The PIE folks were different from the Mesopotamian folks, and were the forebears to all the great pantheons from India to Ireland. Their language is the parent of all the European ones, so even the very ways we are able to think about and consider such things are limited by their influence. the way that Western authors ran roughshod and changed early records of folklore and myth among the many different peoples in the Americas is only a tiny example of this.
It is why Eastern and Southeastern Asian pantheons seem so strange to Western thinking -- and India was caught between the two underlying forces, making them seem strange to all.
The D&D Pantheon system is meant to allow you to not have to deal with all of that. the entire cosmology is meant that way, with the Great Wheel and the many different afterlives becoming Planes. Because don't forget that -- the Great Wheel of the multiverse is where D&D characters go when they die, and alignment is tied to that because how true you are to your alignment says where you will end up and the judge for that is all the gods of the multiverse.
It is why I don't use it. Yes, they have changed it from including Heaven and Paradise and altered it so that they are places to adventure, but those were decisions made in part out of people getting angry about that whole aspect of the game (and not just the ones who didn't play -- plenty who did were angry about it).
And if I go too long, I will start to point out some of the other major flaws that feed back into things in the game itself as a whole that folks want to get rid of, and yet because that portion isn't fully understood people aren't going to be able to deal with that, lol.
Might as well just have Manwe or Aule be hanging around. One of my giggles is that over the last 40 years, D&D went from "one set of gods" to "all the races have gods", and the "all the races have gods" thing is a modern development that can be traced back to a limited set of sources. Before then, it was always one set of gods for eveyone, and there wasn't a lot of dualism with the Evil Gods and the Good Gods.
Too much information in my head. As I noted before, I have a God of Nothing, No One, Nobody. this power is Nothingness personified, the existence of a liminal being who does not exist until someone does the silly thing "nobody would do that".
I loved the book American Gods, and when I do that paranormal campaign, i might just use an idea from it for Gods in a pantheon. Because while D&D sets pantheons up as "just a collection of gods", that's not how they work in reality, in the source material, so to speak.
And Religion is such a huge part of every culture to ever exist on this planet, that to give a culture like any of the ones I created an existence without it is to kinda betray the very essence of why I love creating cultures so much -- religion influences everything in them. Why do you take your shoes off before entering a building or coming before a ruler? People will say it is about dirt, but religion is the underlying cause of that -- the force that made it a custom.
That is what I mean by I am too educated, lol.
It was not said in a positive manner, because all of it interferes with my ability to enjoy a lot of stuff that I once used to take for granted and have fun with, but it also gave me new ways to have fun with it and new ways to think about all of it, and that's why I had to answer with "it depends on the eschatology".
What is the role of the Cleric in the game world? Are they just a healer mage who is less squishy than a boomer mage? Are they Holy Warriors for the God's? Are the knights? -- but still not paladins, of course.
Or are they the True Believers, the Priests, the community organizers and holders of Moral authority? Yes, yes, they get cool powers and all -- but is that their role in the world. How does a common person react to them when they wander into a village -- are they now a Holy figure, or are they reviled, or are they just ignored?
How does what they do differ from a Paladin? Again, not in terms of class, but in terms of their place in the world? This isn't about what archetype are they, but how did they become an archetype. Friar Tuck fits no core basis for any Clerical class, and yet he is an essential cog in the whole. He never shows wondrous powers, he's portly but beloved, and his role was to care for the physical, spiritual, and moral needs of not just Robin Hood's Merry Men, but of the people in the villages they sought to protect, often against the way the church itself thought things should be done.
Paksenarrion is possibly the best story of a Paladin I have ever seen. It was totally and admittedly based on D&D 1e. The source material for both Paladins and Clerics -- the Companions of Charlemagne -- treats Priests and Clerics as pretty much useful tools, but they became the basis for two classes, and then the servant of the gods with extra powers was tacked on, lol.
And what is the difference between a Cleric and Priest? Tuck was away from a church; he was a Friar, after all, and he surely did get involved in battles as the proto-Bard would attest.
I know, I have rambled, I apologize. But this is all what I do like to play with now. The other stuff -- because I can't find as much joy in the panethen stuff as I once did.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds