I was. My girlfriend at the time didn't trust that I was a good enough Christian if I didn't play but still had the books. So in order to prove my love and devotion I threw them away. A stack a couple feet high worth of books, modules, maps, dice, all of it.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I was. My girlfriend at the time didn't trust that I was a good enough Christian if I didn't play but still had the books. So in order to prove my love and devotion I threw them away. A stack a couple feet high worth of books, modules, maps, dice, all of it.
That is awful.
I have a Grandmother who would not be happy to learn that I play Dnd because of the satanic panic. Which is funny because she loves Harry Potter.
I was. My girlfriend at the time didn't trust that I was a good enough Christian if I didn't play but still had the books. So in order to prove my love and devotion I threw them away. A stack a couple feet high worth of books, modules, maps, dice, all of it.
Not in that sense.
That is, during the peak years of it, I learned how to argue against it, how to present D&D in a different light, and how to get them to back the f off before I went ballistic on them.
However...
My former Spouse had been raised as a Witness, and early in our marriage tried to secretly discard my stuff, because it was "occult". They did succeed in getting rid of a few of my Reference materials, but in one of the earliest arguments, learned never to touch anything of mine that was even tangentially related to my fantasy efforts.
I have many strong feelings about it, as I knew a lot of folks who were and remain harmed by that attempt at a pogrom.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I was. My girlfriend at the time didn't trust that I was a good enough Christian if I didn't play but still had the books. So in order to prove my love and devotion I threw them away. A stack a couple feet high worth of books, modules, maps, dice, all of it.
Ugh. When my grandmother found out I played D&D I had to spend 2 hours explaining to them why the game isn’t satanic. She presented a good point about the problematic founder there but it was mostly about the her opinion that dumb kids would worship the gods that are created in the game, even when they know it is just a game.
I was. My girlfriend at the time didn't trust that I was a good enough Christian if I didn't play but still had the books. So in order to prove my love and devotion I threw them away. A stack a couple feet high worth of books, modules, maps, dice, all of it.
Thankfully my school is pretty progressive, so that’s never been an issue, and my parents really don’t care as long as I keep my grades up and don’t get in trouble.
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I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
I was born after the demise of Satan. My life has taken place in a post-adversary era. No devils, no kings, it's really incredible. This peace is what all true warriors strive for.
I'm kinda curious when exactly it got the name Satanic Panic. Surely that must have been after the fact. Nobody would have taken it seriously, right?
The game stuff was a secondary effect, a carry over from a late 70's thing that was based in some questionable pop psych associated wit ti, as well.
THe idea of Satanic Panic came about because a teacher was tried for the kidnapping and molestation of kids that she had never touched -- the kids were made to testify. They had "repressed memories" that had been brought out by a psychologist in the town. The trial was sensationalized (and this was during a period of similar to now terror about many things, including LGBT folks, women actually working someplace other than the home, mail carriers no longer being called Mailmen, and stuff like that) and it gave some creedence to another psychologist who had uncovered repressed memories of children who had spoken of strange rituals featuring a goat-headed being and robed adults.
It was linked to witchcraft and devil worship, and around the same time news filtered in that down in mexico a cult that practiced ritual sacrifice (a from of Santeria) had been broken up.
Well, the same kind of folks who say things like Trans people are evil and drag queens teach kids to perform oral sex and that black people who try criminals as DAs are Riggers suddenly decide that the Mexican Devil Cult that Worshipped Satan had invaded the US and kids were disappearing in ritual sacrifices that were witnessed by other kids who then had those memories repressed until these good christian psychologists (who had the backing and support of the then head of Johns Hopkins Psychiatry department) uncovered them meant that the US was under siege, and anything harmful to kids had to be expunged, lest it guide them down the same path of horror and despair.
you know, like D&D, which was a hobby started by weird midwestern nerds and had become very popular among high school and college kids -- like that kid who disappeared after a D&D game he played with his college friends (some of who were a little sketchy, you know? I mean, just look at them, like so many college kids, they are all weird.)
Now...
The kids made it up. The memories were not real -- they had been encouraged by the psychs. The teacher was eventually cleared, but her life was ruined and she was ostracized by everyone she knew.
There was no satanic cult. Joan Baez even fell for it and released a song called Play Me Backwards that was about the horror of these kids (killer song). Lives were ruined, records got age warning labels on them, D&D carried on but thousands were told it was evil and they would be disowned, the same thinking gave rise to even more power for the idea of conversion therapy, the head of Johns Hopkins (a rampant anti-LGBT extremist then and now) killed dozens of trans care programs, and the term Satanic panic was ingrained in popular culture.
It was the most successful disinfo campaign of the late 20th century, and the thing that those who created them in the 21st century look to as a model.
Yeah, I know, serious bummer. But be aware that laws were almost passed outlawing D&D, several places did put in policies that forbid it from being played (Including prisons and jails), and it forced the closure of many of your friendly neighborhood comic shops because they were also the places you went to get your game stuff from.
Until the Satanic Panic, D&D had flat out taken old names of Demons and Devils and other demonology and angelology stuff and used it freely.
Things were so bad, they stopped calling them Demons and Devils in 3e -- though they had been moving away from it in 2e. It nearly destroyed TSR as a company and D&D as a game -- as well as most other ttrpg's of the day.
It was very, very bad.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
This is the most dangerous BBEG you will ever have your player's face.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I was. My girlfriend at the time didn't trust that I was a good enough Christian if I didn't play but still had the books. So in order to prove my love and devotion I threw them away. A stack a couple feet high worth of books, modules, maps, dice, all of it.
Not around D&D, but definitely around other things. Playing Magic the Gathering, accepting evolutionary theory, being pro choice, having gay friends, watching The Da Vinci Code... voting Democrat. And that was all before I converted to Buddhism and came out as non-binary.
It's not all Christians, mind you. Many are kind, accepting, and compassionate people. I remember reading a story on the old messageboards about a Catholic nun who played with a guy and his friends so she could see what the game was about. She played a cleric and he told her she could do anything in game that she could do in her faith. They encountered some undead and there were some jugs of water nearby. She asked if she could bless the jugs and make holy water. He said yes, she said the prayer, clocked one of the undead over the head with the jugs, scored a critical, and turned it to dust. He said the dance she did after was hilarious.
A couple years ago I made some friends in my German class in HS, and they were always talking about all the stupid stuff they always did in their campaigns. So one day I was bored in theatre and I decided to read through the basic rules and I fell in love with the game from a technical standpoint. I joined one of my friends campaigns, which only ran for 3 sessions total, and I fell in love with the game completely. Unfortunately, no one I knew had the follow through to run/play a campaign for more than 3 sessions so I wasn’t able to play until I started posting here on the forums.
That's really cool that reading the rules first is what got you into it. Most people's doorway seems to be having played in a random game or seeing/hearing someone play. These days, with Youtube and Critical Role, so many newer folks are introduced to D&D through Youtube or something (which is fine! Whatever gets the creativity flowing, I am all for it!)
One day I had a Barnes and Noble gift card, which was something I probably got for my birthday. Before I even went to the store I thought “Hey, what if I bought D&D?” At this time I had no idea what D&D was, I had never really seen it in any form of media (no Stranger Things had entered my life), and I didn’t know anyone who played it. All I knew was that it involved fantasy. So I went to the store and I spoke to the first salesperson I saw “Where is your Dungeons and Dragons?” He directed me, and I was immediately overwhelmed. I asked how he recommended starting, and he told me there were three ways: the Starter Set, the Essentials Kit, and the three book set. After he explained them, I grabbed the Essentials Kit and left (I paid, of course). I started going through the kit with a fine-toothed comb, along with a friend who was equally interested. We got the gist of it, but I wouldn’t say that we fully grasped how it all worked. Pretty quickly, and by that I mean after 2 weeks of pretending we got it all, a friend of ours came over and saw what we were working on. It started a dialogue and we found out that he played! He went ahead and started teaching us, along with two other friends, one of whom brought another friend, and then our new GM brought in another person who had played before! Thus our group was born!
So do you still play with this same group of people (even if, just time to time)?
Some friends of mine got me into playing a CCG called Spellfire (that’s dating myself there), which was essentially based on D&D. Then another friend got me into M:tG, and then that transitioned into actual D&D when we met another person who we became close friends with.
I'd never heard of Spellfire (but I didn't do much with collectable card games) - but did you know there's apparently a new Spellfire? https://spellfire.com/
I had a friend who really liked Pathfinder, which he called D&D for some reason and he worked really hard to get me interested. For some odd reason I wasn't really intrigued even though I had been playing a game that was very similar to Dnd but it lacked any and all mechanics. He did get me to play a few sessions and I really enjoyed it, but we didn't have time to play a lot. Eventually my Dad borrowed Phandelver from another friend and DMed it for us.
So it was really your father who got you hooked? I assume he was a previous D&D Player?
Friend was running a game for mostly new players, knew I was into nerdy kinds of stuff, asked if I wanted to join. I wasn't sure how much I'd enjoy it but we did LMoP and I had a blast.
It's so cool that Lost Mines has come up now a few times and that that adventure was the gateway to a lot of people. Tells you they probably did something right with that (been run through it twice myself now) - curious if that's why they're seeking to expand it now.
The new kid made a first friend who taught it at a kitchen table.
My first dungeon, incidentally, was the example one in the 1e DMG.
You mean the one where they give an example of what an adventure looks like? The whole:
DM: Dave, you see goblins on the hill. What would you like to do? Dave: I would like to get closer using my dexterity to be as quiet as possible. DM: Great. Bob. You're in heavy armor as the fighter. You might make noise sneaking. What would you like to do? Bob: I will wait until Dave gets back with news of what he sees. DM: Great.
That's not the actual dialogue - but I believe you're referencing how they say a normal D&D session goes?
I had a good friend in elementary school that had D&D paraphernalia lying around his house all the time. I would ask him about it, then we would run outside and ride bikes or go exploring until the street lights came on. The images of the box set and the monster manual - I loved the monster pics and they stayed in my head.
About a year later my cousin asked if I wanted to play a game called Dungeons and Dragons. We played Keep on the Borderlands and got eaten by the owlbear. SO MUCH FUN!
My parents got me the red box that year for Christmas.
Hold on. You're older than I thought. You mentioned Red Box here - and later being impacted by the "Satanic Panic." Tell me Red Box wasn't one of the victims of your cleansing...
A friend of mine and his group were playing one night. I came over unannounced and they invited me to sit in for a player who was absent that night. One of the enemies cast dominate person on the character I was playing and told me to turn on the party. That was all I needed. I went out and bought the 3E Core Rulebooks the next day.
Side Note: Can you believe the 3E rulebooks were only $19.99 back then? I got them just before they raised the price to $29.99.
Everything is expensive these days... I used to collect comics when they were 35 cents... and watched them climb to 3.99 by the time I stopped. lol
I was. My girlfriend at the time didn't trust that I was a good enough Christian if I didn't play but still had the books. So in order to prove my love and devotion I threw them away. A stack a couple feet high worth of books, modules, maps, dice, all of it.
Not directly. But I certainly was in the double dip situation. I was deep into Heavy Metal as well as D&D. So I was the poster child of what the Church hated. Except, I was out there, after school giving my lunch to homeless people (something I still do - not just lunch but anytime we go out and don't finish I always take it to go and look for a homeless person to give it to... or buy them food when I am at Chiptole or VONS or whatever...) So if they judged me by the cover I wore - D&D and Metal. I was definitely what they hated. I wasn't impacted - my father was military so he'd seen and heard worse. He sometimes asked me about lyrics he heard or the concept of D&D. But I was already knee deep into Tolkien, and my father was a reader as well. So he knew I was all good.
I was. My girlfriend at the time didn't trust that I was a good enough Christian if I didn't play but still had the books. So in order to prove my love and devotion I threw them away. A stack a couple feet high worth of books, modules, maps, dice, all of it.
That is awful.
I have a Grandmother who would not be happy to learn that I play Dnd because of the satanic panic. Which is funny because she loves Harry Potter.
It's funny how people will judge something they don't know; even if they're passionate about something similar.
I was. My girlfriend at the time didn't trust that I was a good enough Christian if I didn't play but still had the books. So in order to prove my love and devotion I threw them away. A stack a couple feet high worth of books, modules, maps, dice, all of it.
Ugh. When my grandmother found out I played D&D I had to spend 2 hours explaining to them why the game isn’t satanic. She presented a good point about the problematic founder there but it was mostly about the her opinion that dumb kids would worship the gods that are created in the game, even when they know it is just a game.
Uh, how old is your grandmother? How does she know about anything problematic about the founder? Was she keeping tabs on D&D? Or is she fluent in the google? (If so, I am impressed! My mother hates technology!) I assume the person you mean about the "problematic founder" being Gary Gygax? If so I am curious what these are? I mean, Gary Gygax wanted more of a "wargame" type thing when he initially developed D&D. So it was far more brutal. But to my knowledge, there was nothing "problematic" about Gary Gygax? Now his son, Ernie G. Gygax - he's done some shady stuff. Let me find the ... Article. But I'd love to hear what was - or what you - consider "problematic" about Gary Gygax? Because I am certainly unaware. (And rest assured, there may be stuff - because I am oftentimes oblivious).
I was. My girlfriend at the time didn't trust that I was a good enough Christian if I didn't play but still had the books. So in order to prove my love and devotion I threw them away. A stack a couple feet high worth of books, modules, maps, dice, all of it.
Thankfully my school is pretty progressive, so that’s never been an issue, and my parents really don’t care as long as I keep my grades up and don’t get in trouble.
Hey mom, I worship devils and demons! Great hon! How are your grades? All A+. One B-. Work on that B-! Will do, mom!
I was born after the demise of Satan. My life has taken place in a post-adversary era. No devils, no kings, it's really incredible. This peace is what all true warriors strive for.
I'm kinda curious when exactly it got the name Satanic Panic. Surely that must have been after the fact. Nobody would have taken it seriously, right?
The game stuff was a secondary effect, a carry over from a late 70's thing that was based in some questionable pop psych associated wit ti, as well.
THe idea of Satanic Panic came about because a teacher was tried for the kidnapping and molestation of kids that she had never touched -- the kids were made to testify. They had "repressed memories" that had been brought out by a psychologist in the town. The trial was sensationalized (and this was during a period of similar to now terror about many things, including LGBT folks, women actually working someplace other than the home, mail carriers no longer being called Mailmen, and stuff like that) and it gave some creedence to another psychologist who had uncovered repressed memories of children who had spoken of strange rituals featuring a goat-headed being and robed adults.
It was linked to witchcraft and devil worship, and around the same time news filtered in that down in mexico a cult that practiced ritual sacrifice (a from of Santeria) had been broken up.
Well, the same kind of folks who say things like Trans people are evil and drag queens teach kids to perform oral sex and that black people who try criminals as DAs are Riggers suddenly decide that the Mexican Devil Cult that Worshipped Satan had invaded the US and kids were disappearing in ritual sacrifices that were witnessed by other kids who then had those memories repressed until these good christian psychologists (who had the backing and support of the then head of Johns Hopkins Psychiatry department) uncovered them meant that the US was under siege, and anything harmful to kids had to be expunged, lest it guide them down the same path of horror and despair.
you know, like D&D, which was a hobby started by weird midwestern nerds and had become very popular among high school and college kids -- like that kid who disappeared after a D&D game he played with his college friends (some of who were a little sketchy, you know? I mean, just look at them, like so many college kids, they are all weird.)
Now...
The kids made it up. The memories were not real -- they had been encouraged by the psychs. The teacher was eventually cleared, but her life was ruined and she was ostracized by everyone she knew.
There was no satanic cult. Joan Baez even fell for it and released a song called Play Me Backwards that was about the horror of these kids (killer song). Lives were ruined, records got age warning labels on them, D&D carried on but thousands were told it was evil and they would be disowned, the same thinking gave rise to even more power for the idea of conversion therapy, the head of Johns Hopkins (a rampant anti-LGBT extremist then and now) killed dozens of trans care programs, and the term Satanic panic was ingrained in popular culture.
It was the most successful disinfo campaign of the late 20th century, and the thing that those who created them in the 21st century look to as a model.
Yeah, I know, serious bummer. But be aware that laws were almost passed outlawing D&D, several places did put in policies that forbid it from being played (Including prisons and jails), and it forced the closure of many of your friendly neighborhood comic shops because they were also the places you went to get your game stuff from.
Until the Satanic Panic, D&D had flat out taken old names of Demons and Devils and other demonology and angelology stuff and used it freely.
Things were so bad, they stopped calling them Demons and Devils in 3e -- though they had been moving away from it in 2e. It nearly destroyed TSR as a company and D&D as a game -- as well as most other ttrpg's of the day.
It was very, very bad.
I do not remember anything about the teacher and students.
I remember the Church banging on pots and shouting from the roof tops that "Kids were into this Satanic music! And they play a Satanic games where the devil allows them to cast magic!"
And from there, the TV Evangelists - reaching out spreading the fire of these "devil" influences.
Then shows like Geraldo (who most are too young to probably know) had all kinds of specials about these "satanic cults" and had people who had "repressed memories" and forced to draw pentagrams and sacrifice the neighbor's cats in the name of the devil... and the common thing? They all played D&D and listened to Heavy Metal.
I had a friend who really liked Pathfinder, which he called D&D for some reason and he worked really hard to get me interested. For some odd reason I wasn't really intrigued even though I had been playing a game that was very similar to Dnd but it lacked any and all mechanics. He did get me to play a few sessions and I really enjoyed it, but we didn't have time to play a lot. Eventually my Dad borrowed Phandelver from another friend and DMed it for us.
So it was really your father who got you hooked? I assume he was a previous D&D Player?
I was. My girlfriend at the time didn't trust that I was a good enough Christian if I didn't play but still had the books. So in order to prove my love and devotion I threw them away. A stack a couple feet high worth of books, modules, maps, dice, all of it.
That is awful.
I have a Grandmother who would not be happy to learn that I play Dnd because of the satanic panic. Which is funny because she loves Harry Potter.
It's funny how people will judge something they don't know; even if they're passionate about something similar.
Yes, my father played Dnd a little as a kid. That was the first time I read the rule books so it was the first time I actually understood the rules. The other times I played were incredibly chaotic and the rules were not explained to me at all. I didn't even roll any dice. My Dad hadn't played in years and we finally had a rule book in the house so I was able to read through it and explain the rules to him.
If my Grandma ever found out, we'd probably just video a session and send it to her and hope she realizes we are just goofing around.
Some friends of mine got me into playing a CCG called Spellfire (that’s dating myself there), which was essentially based on D&D. Then another friend got me into M:tG, and then that transitioned into actual D&D when we met another person who we became close friends with.
I'd never heard of Spellfire (but I didn't do much with collectable card games) - but did you know there's apparently a new Spellfire? https://spellfire.com/
Do you still play D&D with these folks?
No, I hadn’t heard that. Thank you.
No, we’re talking around 30 years ago, and life happens. People drift. It is what it is.
Gary was absolutely the standard European American, midwestern, nerd type of the normal sort for his time. Misogyny, racism, blah blah were all pretty much his basic underlying nature — but he was also aware of how those things were “not for public”.
Gary was a casual racist — the sort of not really intending to be, just, you know, this is how it really is. He treated me like crap, lol, the one time I met him, but I doubt he saw it that way. The stuff that people shake their heads about and say “was it really that bad?”.
There is a lot of iffy stuff about him, and huge parts of it lack any real support because it was all pre-internet. Ernie is a lot more radicalized, but he is also living post internet, and make no mistake: he became radicalized because it was already there. Like a famous figure currently being tried whose father was famously racist and open about it.
He was a bad DM, imo, and he wasn’t a great person, but he shaped and co-created an incredible game. What he did to Dave Arneson (who actually did the earliest stuff) was pretty ugly, but also fairly standard.
when you have three kids and a wife to support, you do stuff.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Gary was absolutely the standard European American, midwestern, nerd type of the normal sort for his time. Misogyny, racism, blah blah were all pretty much his basic underlying nature — but he was also aware of how those things were “not for public”.
Gary was a casual racist — the sort of not really intending to be, just, you know, this is how it really is. He treated me like crap, lol, the one time I met him, but I doubt he saw it that way. The stuff that people shake their heads about and say “was it really that bad?”.
There is a lot of iffy stuff about him, and huge parts of it lack any real support because it was all pre-internet. Ernie is a lot more radicalized, but he is also living post internet, and make no mistake: he became radicalized because it was already there. Like a famous figure currently being tried whose father was famously racist and open about it.
He was a bad DM, imo, and he wasn’t a great person, but he shaped and co-created an incredible game. What he did to Dave Arneson (who actually did the earliest stuff) was pretty ugly, but also fairly standard.
when you have three kids and a wife to support, you do stuff.
Oh damn
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Gary was absolutely the standard European American, midwestern, nerd type of the normal sort for his time. Misogyny, racism, blah blah were all pretty much his basic underlying nature — but he was also aware of how those things were “not for public”.
Gary was a casual racist — the sort of not really intending to be, just, you know, this is how it really is. He treated me like crap, lol, the one time I met him, but I doubt he saw it that way. The stuff that people shake their heads about and say “was it really that bad?”.
There is a lot of iffy stuff about him, and huge parts of it lack any real support because it was all pre-internet. Ernie is a lot more radicalized, but he is also living post internet, and make no mistake: he became radicalized because it was already there. Like a famous figure currently being tried whose father was famously racist and open about it.
He was a bad DM, imo, and he wasn’t a great person, but he shaped and co-created an incredible game. What he did to Dave Arneson (who actually did the earliest stuff) was pretty ugly, but also fairly standard.
when you have three kids and a wife to support, you do stuff.
Out of curiosity, did you ever meet him? Or is this all just what you’ve read/heard?
Side question:
Were you ever a victim of satanic panic?
I was. My girlfriend at the time didn't trust that I was a good enough Christian if I didn't play but still had the books. So in order to prove my love and devotion I threw them away. A stack a couple feet high worth of books, modules, maps, dice, all of it.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
That is awful.
I have a Grandmother who would not be happy to learn that I play Dnd because of the satanic panic. Which is funny because she loves Harry Potter.
Not in that sense.
That is, during the peak years of it, I learned how to argue against it, how to present D&D in a different light, and how to get them to back the f off before I went ballistic on them.
However...
My former Spouse had been raised as a Witness, and early in our marriage tried to secretly discard my stuff, because it was "occult". They did succeed in getting rid of a few of my Reference materials, but in one of the earliest arguments, learned never to touch anything of mine that was even tangentially related to my fantasy efforts.
I have many strong feelings about it, as I knew a lot of folks who were and remain harmed by that attempt at a pogrom.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Ugh. When my grandmother found out I played D&D I had to spend 2 hours explaining to them why the game isn’t satanic. She presented a good point about the problematic founder there but it was mostly about the her opinion that dumb kids would worship the gods that are created in the game, even when they know it is just a game.
She/Her | Femboy Nerd
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Devilishly Cute
Thankfully my school is pretty progressive, so that’s never been an issue, and my parents really don’t care as long as I keep my grades up and don’t get in trouble.
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
No. My ‘rents are cool and my friends either also played or didn’t care.
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I was born after the demise of Satan. My life has taken place in a post-adversary era. No devils, no kings, it's really incredible. This peace is what all true warriors strive for.
I'm kinda curious when exactly it got the name Satanic Panic. Surely that must have been after the fact. Nobody would have taken it seriously, right?
People did take it seriously though, and if I recall it got that name while it was happening.
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My dad is an old-school DnD player who played 2e back when it came out. My grandma was the one who got it for him.
Satanic Panic wasn't a problem for me when it came to DnD, mostly because my parents had grown out of their "all violence is Satanic" phase.
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
May each word that I speak be backed by each of my teeth.
Sposta's Right.
The game stuff was a secondary effect, a carry over from a late 70's thing that was based in some questionable pop psych associated wit ti, as well.
THe idea of Satanic Panic came about because a teacher was tried for the kidnapping and molestation of kids that she had never touched -- the kids were made to testify. They had "repressed memories" that had been brought out by a psychologist in the town. The trial was sensationalized (and this was during a period of similar to now terror about many things, including LGBT folks, women actually working someplace other than the home, mail carriers no longer being called Mailmen, and stuff like that) and it gave some creedence to another psychologist who had uncovered repressed memories of children who had spoken of strange rituals featuring a goat-headed being and robed adults.
It was linked to witchcraft and devil worship, and around the same time news filtered in that down in mexico a cult that practiced ritual sacrifice (a from of Santeria) had been broken up.
Well, the same kind of folks who say things like Trans people are evil and drag queens teach kids to perform oral sex and that black people who try criminals as DAs are Riggers suddenly decide that the Mexican Devil Cult that Worshipped Satan had invaded the US and kids were disappearing in ritual sacrifices that were witnessed by other kids who then had those memories repressed until these good christian psychologists (who had the backing and support of the then head of Johns Hopkins Psychiatry department) uncovered them meant that the US was under siege, and anything harmful to kids had to be expunged, lest it guide them down the same path of horror and despair.
you know, like D&D, which was a hobby started by weird midwestern nerds and had become very popular among high school and college kids -- like that kid who disappeared after a D&D game he played with his college friends (some of who were a little sketchy, you know? I mean, just look at them, like so many college kids, they are all weird.)
Now...
The kids made it up. The memories were not real -- they had been encouraged by the psychs. The teacher was eventually cleared, but her life was ruined and she was ostracized by everyone she knew.
There was no satanic cult. Joan Baez even fell for it and released a song called Play Me Backwards that was about the horror of these kids (killer song). Lives were ruined, records got age warning labels on them, D&D carried on but thousands were told it was evil and they would be disowned, the same thinking gave rise to even more power for the idea of conversion therapy, the head of Johns Hopkins (a rampant anti-LGBT extremist then and now) killed dozens of trans care programs, and the term Satanic panic was ingrained in popular culture.
It was the most successful disinfo campaign of the late 20th century, and the thing that those who created them in the 21st century look to as a model.
Yeah, I know, serious bummer. But be aware that laws were almost passed outlawing D&D, several places did put in policies that forbid it from being played (Including prisons and jails), and it forced the closure of many of your friendly neighborhood comic shops because they were also the places you went to get your game stuff from.
Until the Satanic Panic, D&D had flat out taken old names of Demons and Devils and other demonology and angelology stuff and used it freely.
Things were so bad, they stopped calling them Demons and Devils in 3e -- though they had been moving away from it in 2e. It nearly destroyed TSR as a company and D&D as a game -- as well as most other ttrpg's of the day.
It was very, very bad.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
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Now, given that journey down nightmare lane...
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/general-discussion/183320-your-new-bbeg#c3
This is the most dangerous BBEG you will ever have your player's face.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
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.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
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Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Not around D&D, but definitely around other things. Playing Magic the Gathering, accepting evolutionary theory, being pro choice, having gay friends, watching The Da Vinci Code... voting Democrat. And that was all before I converted to Buddhism and came out as non-binary.
It's not all Christians, mind you. Many are kind, accepting, and compassionate people. I remember reading a story on the old messageboards about a Catholic nun who played with a guy and his friends so she could see what the game was about. She played a cleric and he told her she could do anything in game that she could do in her faith. They encountered some undead and there were some jugs of water nearby. She asked if she could bless the jugs and make holy water. He said yes, she said the prayer, clocked one of the undead over the head with the jugs, scored a critical, and turned it to dust. He said the dance she did after was hilarious.
Begin...
That's really cool that reading the rules first is what got you into it. Most people's doorway seems to be having played in a random game or seeing/hearing someone play. These days, with Youtube and Critical Role, so many newer folks are introduced to D&D through Youtube or something (which is fine! Whatever gets the creativity flowing, I am all for it!)
Virtual D&D Camp? I need to hear more about this!
So do you still play with this same group of people (even if, just time to time)?
I'd never heard of Spellfire (but I didn't do much with collectable card games) - but did you know there's apparently a new Spellfire?
https://spellfire.com/
Do you still play D&D with these folks?
Do you have a preference between fantasy and modern type games?
So it was really your father who got you hooked? I assume he was a previous D&D Player?
It's so cool that Lost Mines has come up now a few times and that that adventure was the gateway to a lot of people. Tells you they probably did something right with that (been run through it twice myself now) - curious if that's why they're seeking to expand it now.
You mean the one where they give an example of what an adventure looks like?
The whole:
DM: Dave, you see goblins on the hill. What would you like to do?
Dave: I would like to get closer using my dexterity to be as quiet as possible.
DM: Great. Bob. You're in heavy armor as the fighter. You might make noise sneaking. What would you like to do?
Bob: I will wait until Dave gets back with news of what he sees.
DM: Great.
That's not the actual dialogue - but I believe you're referencing how they say a normal D&D session goes?
Hold on. You're older than I thought. You mentioned Red Box here - and later being impacted by the "Satanic Panic."
Tell me Red Box wasn't one of the victims of your cleansing...
Everything is expensive these days...
I used to collect comics when they were 35 cents... and watched them climb to 3.99 by the time I stopped. lol
Not directly. But I certainly was in the double dip situation.
I was deep into Heavy Metal as well as D&D. So I was the poster child of what the Church hated.
Except, I was out there, after school giving my lunch to homeless people (something I still do - not just lunch but anytime we go out and don't finish I always take it to go and look for a homeless person to give it to... or buy them food when I am at Chiptole or VONS or whatever...)
So if they judged me by the cover I wore - D&D and Metal. I was definitely what they hated.
I wasn't impacted - my father was military so he'd seen and heard worse.
He sometimes asked me about lyrics he heard or the concept of D&D.
But I was already knee deep into Tolkien, and my father was a reader as well.
So he knew I was all good.
It's funny how people will judge something they don't know; even if they're passionate about something similar.
Uh, how old is your grandmother?
How does she know about anything problematic about the founder? Was she keeping tabs on D&D? Or is she fluent in the google? (If so, I am impressed! My mother hates technology!)
I assume the person you mean about the "problematic founder" being Gary Gygax?
If so I am curious what these are? I mean, Gary Gygax wanted more of a "wargame" type thing when he initially developed D&D. So it was far more brutal. But to my knowledge, there was nothing "problematic" about Gary Gygax?
Now his son, Ernie G. Gygax - he's done some shady stuff. Let me find the ... Article.
But I'd love to hear what was - or what you - consider "problematic" about Gary Gygax? Because I am certainly unaware.
(And rest assured, there may be stuff - because I am oftentimes oblivious).
Hey mom, I worship devils and demons!
Great hon! How are your grades?
All A+. One B-.
Work on that B-!
Will do, mom!
LOL
Parents blamed everything on something else. Suicide. Murder. Depression.
It was all because they followed the Devil.
Whether it was D&D or Heavy Metal, or worse, BOTH!
This sums it up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_controversies
I do not remember anything about the teacher and students.
I remember the Church banging on pots and shouting from the roof tops that "Kids were into this Satanic music! And they play a Satanic games where the devil allows them to cast magic!"
And from there, the TV Evangelists - reaching out spreading the fire of these "devil" influences.
Then shows like Geraldo (who most are too young to probably know) had all kinds of specials about these "satanic cults" and had people who had "repressed memories" and forced to draw pentagrams and sacrifice the neighbor's cats in the name of the devil... and the common thing? They all played D&D and listened to Heavy Metal.
From there, the news ran with it.
And the Satanic Panic spread like wild fire.
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Yes, my father played Dnd a little as a kid. That was the first time I read the rule books so it was the first time I actually understood the rules. The other times I played were incredibly chaotic and the rules were not explained to me at all. I didn't even roll any dice. My Dad hadn't played in years and we finally had a rule book in the house so I was able to read through it and explain the rules to him.
If my Grandma ever found out, we'd probably just video a session and send it to her and hope she realizes we are just goofing around.
No, I hadn’t heard that. Thank you.
No, we’re talking around 30 years ago, and life happens. People drift. It is what it is.
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Gary was absolutely the standard European American, midwestern, nerd type of the normal sort for his time. Misogyny, racism, blah blah were all pretty much his basic underlying nature — but he was also aware of how those things were “not for public”.
Gary was a casual racist — the sort of not really intending to be, just, you know, this is how it really is. He treated me like crap, lol, the one time I met him, but I doubt he saw it that way. The stuff that people shake their heads about and say “was it really that bad?”.
There is a lot of iffy stuff about him, and huge parts of it lack any real support because it was all pre-internet. Ernie is a lot more radicalized, but he is also living post internet, and make no mistake: he became radicalized because it was already there. Like a famous figure currently being tried whose father was famously racist and open about it.
He was a bad DM, imo, and he wasn’t a great person, but he shaped and co-created an incredible game. What he did to Dave Arneson (who actually did the earliest stuff) was pretty ugly, but also fairly standard.
when you have three kids and a wife to support, you do stuff.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I was a victim of satanic panic, and I'm gen z, my grandparents are very transphobic, ending it there
Your friendly trans bard!
She/They pronouns
The Goddess of the Strings (thanks for the title Drummer!)
oh and dnd is the devils game
Your friendly trans bard!
She/They pronouns
The Goddess of the Strings (thanks for the title Drummer!)
Oh damn
Your friendly trans bard!
She/They pronouns
The Goddess of the Strings (thanks for the title Drummer!)
Out of curiosity, did you ever meet him? Or is this all just what you’ve read/heard?
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