So I'm making a tortle character who can cast Gaseous Form, and I am wondering how the two interact.
The rule is:
Shell Defense. You can withdraw into your shell as an action. Until you emerge, you gain a +4 bonus to AC, and you have advantage on Strength and Constitution saving throws. While in your shell, you are prone, your speed is 0 and can't increase, you have disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws, you can't take reactions, and the only action you can take is a bonus action to emerge from your shell.
The spell is:
You transform a willing creature you touch, along with everything it's wearing and carrying, into a misty cloud for the duration. The spell ends if the creature drops to 0 hit points. An incorporeal creature isn't affected.
While in this form, the target's only method of movement is a flying speed of 10 feet. The target can enter and occupy the space of another creature. The target has resistance to nonmagical damage, and it has advantage on Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution saving throws. The target can pass through small holes, narrow openings, and even mere cracks, though it treats liquids as though they were solid surfaces. The target can't fall and remains hovering in the air even when stunned or otherwise incapacitated.
While in the form of a misty cloud, the target can't talk or manipulate objects, and any objects it was carrying or holding can't be dropped, used, or otherwise interacted with. The target can't attack or cast spells.
So, my question is, if a Tortle were to use gaseous form, can they also use shell defence to become harder to hit at the same time?
If they were using both, am I right that shell defence's "your speed is 0 and can't increase" is going to override the fly speed of 10ft.?
I'd say you cannot gain the fly speed in your shell because of that "and can't increase" phrase, so you'd be stuck. You could cast gaseous form then withdraw into your shell, but you'd be stuck (it isn't interacting with an object, attacking, or casting a spell). You couldn't do it the other way around because of the limits on what you can do in your shell.
You are transformed into a misty cloud. you are no longer a tortle for the duration of the spell, and would not have any ability native to tortles. It's odd that such a change would not also give you a new AC, but you would no longer have a shell (or armor) so I would rule that your "standard" AC of 10 + DEX would apply to the new form, and any abilities that would not be applicable due to the change in form would no longer apply. So, if you were using shell defense, you would no longer have the AC boost, nor the reduction of speed, but you would revert to your shell defense state when you transformed back.
Some of this is interpretation beyond RAW, but the RAW is incomplete for such a drastic transformation of form.
Does a "misty cloud" have a shell to withdraw into?
Theoretically, yes. The spell doesn't alter the character's AC. So a misty cloud in full plate armor still has the benefits of plate armor, so logically the shell of a tortle would still provide the same benefit as it did when in solid form.
Does a "misty cloud" have a shell to withdraw into?
Theoretically, yes. The spell doesn't alter the character's AC. So a misty cloud in full plate armor still has the benefits of plate armor, so logically the shell of a tortle would still provide the same benefit as it did when in solid form.
That doesn’t track for me…cloud should not have AC inherently different from cloud, which is why I default to the standard 10+ DEX
this is probably more a flaw in the writing of the spell though, as a full body transformation should logically include an AC change…all other full body form changes do
I get what you mean, but it's probably just one of those things where the game designers just didn't want to add a bunch of bookkeeping to something like this which seems to mostly just be intended as a utility spell for getting through like... holes in doors and such. You can't attack while in this form or even move more than 10 feet at a time. I think the only reason it's even possible to attakc someone in this form is just to prevent players from using this as a quick invulnerability in weird ways.
So, my question is, if a Tortle were to use gaseous form, can they also use shell defence to become harder to hit at the same time?
If they were using both, am I right that shell defence's "your speed is 0 and can't increase" is going to override the fly speed of 10ft.?
You can use shell defense in gaseous form.
The spell's text will override your shell defense text wherever there's a conflict, and stack wherever stacking would occur. That'll result in this:
+4 AC
Advantage on Strength and Constitution saving throws
Advantage and Disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws, which means your Dex saves are rolled normally, and remain normal even if additional sources of advantage or disadvantage apply.
You have a fly speed of 0 ft (hover), and you are prone.
The rest of the spell text just applies - resistance to nonmagical damage, treating liquids as solids, etc.
The rest of shell defense just applies - no reactions, etc.
So I'm making a tortle character who can cast Gaseous Form, and I am wondering how the two interact.
The rule is:
The spell is:
So, my question is, if a Tortle were to use gaseous form, can they also use shell defence to become harder to hit at the same time?
If they were using both, am I right that shell defence's "your speed is 0 and can't increase" is going to override the fly speed of 10ft.?
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Does a "misty cloud" have a shell to withdraw into?
I'd say you cannot gain the fly speed in your shell because of that "and can't increase" phrase, so you'd be stuck. You could cast gaseous form then withdraw into your shell, but you'd be stuck (it isn't interacting with an object, attacking, or casting a spell). You couldn't do it the other way around because of the limits on what you can do in your shell.
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You are transformed into a misty cloud. you are no longer a tortle for the duration of the spell, and would not have any ability native to tortles. It's odd that such a change would not also give you a new AC, but you would no longer have a shell (or armor) so I would rule that your "standard" AC of 10 + DEX would apply to the new form, and any abilities that would not be applicable due to the change in form would no longer apply. So, if you were using shell defense, you would no longer have the AC boost, nor the reduction of speed, but you would revert to your shell defense state when you transformed back.
Some of this is interpretation beyond RAW, but the RAW is incomplete for such a drastic transformation of form.
Theoretically, yes. The spell doesn't alter the character's AC. So a misty cloud in full plate armor still has the benefits of plate armor, so logically the shell of a tortle would still provide the same benefit as it did when in solid form.
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That doesn’t track for me…cloud should not have AC inherently different from cloud, which is why I default to the standard 10+ DEX
this is probably more a flaw in the writing of the spell though, as a full body transformation should logically include an AC change…all other full body form changes do
I get what you mean, but it's probably just one of those things where the game designers just didn't want to add a bunch of bookkeeping to something like this which seems to mostly just be intended as a utility spell for getting through like... holes in doors and such. You can't attack while in this form or even move more than 10 feet at a time. I think the only reason it's even possible to attakc someone in this form is just to prevent players from using this as a quick invulnerability in weird ways.
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Gaseous form does not remove features and traits, so yes you can do both. Your fly speed would be 0.