The rules are pretty clear about what happens to specific combat and skill checks when characters/creatures cannot see. Similarly, it appears as though creatures are not automatically not detected by virtue of being unseen without Hide actions. I am looking for advice on how to run other aspects of the encounter.
Here is an example. A party of human adventurers without abilities to see in darkness are met by a similarly challenged group of bandits in the cellar of a local tavern. The room is about 30x40 feet and features large casks, a few crates, tables and chairs in various spots throughout the room. Right as a combat begins, the lights in the cellar go out (doesn't matter how). Now the entire room is pitch black and no creature can see - in effect, everyone is blinded:
A blinded creature can't see and automatically fails any ability check that requires sight.
Attack rolls against the creature have advantage, and the creature's attack rolls have disadvantage.
The Vision and Light rules similarly point back to blinded, saying nothing about movement:
A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area.
So, everybody knows that others are in the cellar - nobody is hidden at the start of combat. How do people navigate the room? Do they need to make checks to move around the room, avoid chairs and tables? Is their speed reduced due to the need to take extra care in moving? Do they know the exact location of an enemy if it moves to another spot in the room without hiding? Do creatures with and without darkvision pretty much move around with similar ease?
In this example, the combat begins with everybody getting a look at the environment before the lights go out - what if you don't know the environment and cannot see? Conceptually, this should be more challenging in that you have no idea what the environment is like.
In short, the rules seem to imply the the darkness has no effect on any of these things - I can move about the room, avoiding and interacting with obstacles at normal speed and targeting squares with enemies in them - if we both cannot see, I don't even have disadvantage. Do the rules as written provide more regarding moving in the darkness (or Blinded) than I am seeing? Any tips on how to DM movement darkness?
I was thinking that maybe there is something in the ability check failure - so, I typically do not need to make a Perception Check to avoid a chair when I can see. If somebody wants to move while blinded, I guess they automatically don't see any obstacles? Then what?
The rules are pretty clear about what happens to specific combat and skill checks when characters/creatures cannot see. Similarly, it appears as though creatures are not automatically not detected by virtue of being unseen without Hide actions. I am looking for advice on how to run other aspects of the encounter.
1st thing 1st. In this situation you, the DM, are going to be making a number of rulings. Yes, some rules exist to guide an encounter like this, but some of it is purely going to be on your judgement calls.
Here is an example. A party of human adventurers without abilities to see in darkness are met by a similarly challenged group of bandits in the cellar of a local tavern. The room is about 30x40 feet and features large casks, a few crates, tables and chairs in various spots throughout the room. Right as a combat begins, the lights in the cellar go out (doesn't matter how). Now the entire room is pitch black and no creature can see - in effect, everyone is blinded:
A blinded creature can't see and automatically fails any ability check that requires sight.
Attack rolls against the creature have advantage, and the creature's attack rolls have disadvantage.
Right, so, since everyone is at disadvantage to attack because they cannot see, but at advantage to attack because their targets cannot see, this means those cancel out and everyone will be attacking normally and cannot roll with advantage or disadvantage unless the situation changes.
The Vision and Light rules similarly point back to blinded, saying nothing about movement:
A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area.
So, everybody knows that others are in the cellar - nobody is hidden at the start of combat. How do people navigate the room?
You had them in a lit cellar at the start, so make sure they have seen everyone's positioning. Then, hide everything from them. If you're on a virtual table top this can be done with dynamic lighting easy enough. If you're using a tabletop it gets a bit trickier, and you may end up needing to rely on them simply not metagaming knowledge they the player know but their character doesn't.
Have them simply move to where they want to move and if that path has obstacles make a call. Should they roll something or fall prone? Roll something or it is difficult terrain? Or ignore these difficulties altogether? These are entirely your calls. You'll need to take into account exactly how cramped and cluttered it is and just give them a clear ruling that makes sense.
Do they need to make checks to move around the room, avoid chairs and tables?
You absolutely can if you want to. You don't have to if you don't want to. Totally your call, if you think its super hard and/or there should be consequences for messing up... have rolls.
Is their speed reduced due to the need to take extra care in moving?
If you want it to be difficult terrain, then yes. Though, I wouldn't specifically make an area difficult terrain for the darkness so much as for he clutter and obstacles in the area.
Do they know the exact location of an enemy if it moves to another spot in the room without hiding?
No, if they cannot see n enemy they cannot follow their movement. Not unless some other sense besides sight would allow them to track the target's movement. Sound might... but it'd likely be a super high DC especially in the middle of noisy combat if you even allowed it at all.
Do creatures with and without darkvision pretty much move around with similar ease?
Technically yes, but you are free to impose challenges on creatures without darkvision that those with darkvision would easily avoid.
In this example, the combat begins with everybody getting a look at the environment before the lights go out - what if you don't know the environment and cannot see?
Virtual tabletops make this easier to play out, because what the player sees is what their character sees if you work with dynamic lighting into your battlemap. That said, the characters without darkvision would have no idea what they're walking into and might walk directly into extremely dangerous hazards. So obvious you, the DM, should absolutely include extremely dangerous hazards. But don't reveal stuff except the descriptions of what they feel, hear, smell, etc. Don't just say "You run into the cave wall" say "You run into something hard and solid, ungiving, it is cold and smooth to the touch and hurt a bit as you collided with it". Let them be unsure, but have reasonable guesses, as to what's around them.
Conceptually, this should be more challenging in that you have no idea what the environment is like.
In short, the rules seem to imply the the darkness has no effect on any of these things - I can move about the room, avoiding and interacting with obstacles at normal speed and targeting squares with enemies in them - if we both cannot see, I don't even have disadvantage. Do the rules as written provide more regarding moving in the darkness (or Blinded) than I am seeing? Any tips on how to DM movement darkness?
The rules in this situation lean heavily on the expectation that the DM will call for checks when players are doing things that would be difficult to actually perform. Would it be difficult to run through a room with obstacles everywhere, in pitch darkness, at a full sprint? Yes. Very... very much yes. But if that is what a player wants to do, nothing prevents it, but the DM is well within their rights to call for a check.
I was thinking that maybe there is something in the ability check failure - so, I typically do not need to make a Perception Check to avoid a chair when I can see. If somebody wants to move while blinded, I guess they automatically don't see any obstacles? Then what?
Ask them straight up how they intend to move around in the darkness without running into anything. Listen to their answer. Then call for a check based on that response.
Say the Wizard says "I have Keen Mind, so I want to simply map the brief glance of the room I had into my mental map of this space and avoid the objects where I remember them to be" Just have him do an Int check with a moderate/low DC since he has Keen Mind to be able to do this. if he's successful he can mentally envision and rmember exactly where everything is while moving around.
Say a rogue says "I duck and weave around obstacles and if I run into anything I pivot and roll so as to keep moving unharmed" then have them roll an acrobatics check to move about without crashing into anything.
Etc. But let the players describe how they want to tackle the problem of being in a space without the ability to see and then call for a check based on their reply and assign a DC you feel makes sense given that approach.
Edit: Oh and another tip... I'm not sure how raw this is honestly but it works great for my games even if it isn't... they cannot see their enemies or even don't know where they even are... let them be able to declare a space to attack. Even if they don't know if it is occupied or not. If it isn't occupied, still have em roll, and obviously it misses. But if that space does have a creature in it have it hit/miss normally as if they attacked that creature directly. Even if that creature isn't the creature they thought was in that space. This really adds an element of friendly fire sometimes in these chaotic fights where everyone if fighting blind.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I was a halfling in a combat exactly like this - dark building, fighting an enemy without darkvision. This is how my DM ran it:
1. Speed was halved because we had to feel our way through the darkness (difficult terrain, indeed!) 2. Location of enemy (and us) was an educated guess until someone made light 3. Attempts to stealth mostly involved not making noise rather than not being seen, and thus were straight rolls
Those of us without darkvision (half the party) pretty much fumbled around in the dark and tried to find a way out until we got frustrated and cast light so we could run faster. Those with darkvision held off the baddie or guided us as best they could until we were in the clear.
Keep in mind that RAW, you cannot cast spells that target creatures behind total cover unless the spell specifically allows it. Darkness is total cover. So most spellcasters will be completely neutered in this environment until someone gets some light up. This also has serious implications for healing, as most healing spells have a sight requirement.
That said, it was one of the most memorable combats of my life! I actually enjoyed the challenge.
So, everybody knows that others are in the cellar - nobody is hidden at the start of combat. How do people navigate the room? Do they need to make checks to move around the room, avoid chairs and tables? Is their speed reduced due to the need to take extra care in moving?
Can you walk around your house in complete darkness? I'm guessing, yes you can. So, if the PCs are in an area they know well (or one with few pieces of furniture that they've seen well) then they move at normal speed. If not, call it difficult terrain and they therefore move at half speed.
No checks needed. Moving while blinded over tens of feet doesn't cause much deviation from course. Over the size of a paddock, yes it does (see Mythbusters).
Do they know the exact location of an enemy if it moves to another spot in the room without hiding?
You are only hidden if you have taken steps to hide (usually by taking the Hide Action in combat). So the general rule is - everyone knows where everyone is. If playing on a grid, everyone knows which square or hex everyone is in.
There will of course be exceptions (for example, something flying silently, a ghost perhaps).
Do they know the exact location of an enemy if it moves to another spot in the room without hiding?
You are only hidden if you have taken steps to hide (usually by taking the Hide Action in combat). So the general rule is - everyone knows where everyone is. If playing on a grid, everyone knows which square or hex everyone is in.
There will of course be exceptions (for example, something flying silently, a ghost perhaps).
You don't automatically know where people are just because they're not hiding. That's only if you could normally detect them easily and obviously within your passive perception score. And if you're blind you don't see anyone at all.
Imagine there are a gang of criminals inside a tavern, but it is shuttered up when the PCs approach. The criminals aren't "hiding" inside, they're just in the open middle of the tavern holding action to fire crossbows at whoever opens the door. Do the PCs know exactly which squares the criminals are in before ever walking inside? Do the PCs even know there are criminals inside at all? They're not hiding... Why/why not?
No, they don't know they're inside because they can't see inside. No they don't know what squares they're in they can't see inside. You don't need to hide to be undetected when someone wasn't capable of detecting you in the first place.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Perception isn't just sight, it is also hearing. I agree with Greenstone though, if nobody is hiding then you know which squares they are in unless they take an action to hide (in which case, your passive Perception would probably take a -5 for being unable to see them).
Hiding when everyone is already at adv/disadv is rather pointless but important for that one character with darkvision :').
So, everybody knows that others are in the cellar - nobody is hidden at the start of combat. How do people navigate the room? Do they need to make checks to move around the room, avoid chairs and tables?
They navigate normally without making any checks. DM can always asks for ability checks that doesn't requires sight to avoid running into obstacles though.
Is their speed reduced due to the need to take extra care in moving? Do creatures with and without darkvision pretty much move around with similar ease?
No being blinded doesn't have any instance on your speed any more than when seeing clearly with darkvision.
I was thinking that maybe there is something in the ability check failure - so, I typically do not need to make a Perception Check to avoid a chair when I can see. If somebody wants to move while blinded, I guess they automatically don't see any obstacles? Then what?
Exactly you auomatically fail ability checks that requires sight. It could perceive it in a different manner though. A DM could ask for a dexterity check to avoid tripping over an obstacle and fall prone for exemple.
In short, the rules seem to imply the the darkness has no effect on any of these things - I can move about the room, avoiding and interacting with obstacles at normal speed and targeting squares with enemies in them - if we both cannot see, I don't even have disadvantage. Do the rules as written provide more regarding moving in the darkness (or Blinded) than I am seeing? Any tips on how to DM movement darkness?
Exactly it won't have any more effects that what RAW says but as a DM you can always decides there's more to it than what the rules says. One way to help impact movement when blinded could be to treat every space/squares moved as difficult terrain while you can't see.
Do they know the exact location of an enemy if it moves to another spot in the room without hiding?
You are only hidden if you have taken steps to hide (usually by taking the Hide Action in combat). So the general rule is - everyone knows where everyone is. If playing on a grid, everyone knows which square or hex everyone is in.
There will of course be exceptions (for example, something flying silently, a ghost perhaps).
You don't automatically know where people are just because they're not hiding. That's only if you could normally detect them easily and obviously within your passive perception score. And if you're blind you don't see anyone at all.
Imagine there are a gang of criminals inside a tavern, but it is shuttered up when the PCs approach. The criminals aren't "hiding" inside, they're just in the open middle of the tavern holding action to fire crossbows at whoever opens the door. Do the PCs know exactly which squares the criminals are in before ever walking inside? Do the PCs even know there are criminals inside at all? They're not hiding... Why/why not?
No, they don't know they're inside because they can't see inside. No they don't know what squares they're in they can't see inside. You don't need to hide to be undetected when someone wasn't capable of detecting you in the first place.
Outside combat people not in the same location is a different thing. The scenario presented here is everyone in the same room in combat. It's generally understood by most (and been debated to death) that in combat you know the location of any creature not hidden. It's about the only benefit one gets for hiding over simply being invisible.
"In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of hiding and approach a creature, it usually sees you."
"If you are hidden—both unseen and unheard—when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses."
"You can’t hide from a creature that can see you clearly, and you give away your position if you make noise, such as shouting a warning or knocking over a vase. An invisible creature can’t be seen, so it can always try to hide. Signs of its passage might still be noticed, however, and it still has to stay quiet"
As others previously said, this will be down to DM rulings mostly.
After a quick thought, I would ask all players to roll a perception check and set a DC. If they pass it, then they can recall approximately where the objects are.
In regards to moving, I would say half speed is reasonable. If however a player wants to move at full speed or dash, then if they hit an object I would ask for an acrobatics check and on failure, that character is now prone.
As for attacking each other, I think that the attacking whilst on darkness rules make no sense i.e advantage and disadvantage cancelling out and everyone is attacking each other as if they are in the middle of a field on bright daylight. I would black out the whole map and characters will have to select a random square to attack. If an enemy happens to be there, then that attack is made with disadvantage. If no one is there, the attack misses obviously.
Do they know the exact location of an enemy if it moves to another spot in the room without hiding?
This works exactly the same way as if the creature you can't see is invisible - and there is no consistent RAW on this. Finding two DMs who disagree on how to handle this is about as hard as throwing a rock up in the air and hitting the ground.
Here's a summary of the ways I've seen DMs claim they handle this:
Everyone always knows where creatures they can't see are - functionally, everyone has echolocation.
No-one knows where creatures they can't see are unless they give their location away through something they do, like making an attack, so usually, if a creature you can't see moves, you lose track of it.
When a creature you can't see moves, determining where it is is a question of Perception vs Stealth (without needing to take the actual Hide or Search actions). Since no actions are being taken - the creature is just moving, and you just want to know if the observer tracks the movement - there are several ways to handle this, boiling down to whether you want the observer to roll or use passive perception, and whether you want the mover to roll or use passive stealth.
Your scenario adds an additional factor: darkness making it harder to move quietly. Per the RAW, this won't add disadvantage - you either don't need to see and roll normally, or you do and automatically fail. If you rule that a creature needs to see to move quietly and it can't see, it will automatically make noise.
I did find one DM who applies an arbitrary distance metric to this situation, and differentiates which of the above solutions to use depending on the distance between the actors.
As far as being able to navigate obstacles, leave it up to player memory. Show them the battle map, then hide it when the lights go out. Players can move at full speed, if they tell you left-up-up-right-up-right. If they run into a chair, they fall prone. Or they can use their action to make a Perception check at disadvantage (feeling around in the dark). A very good check will give them full information about everything within 10 feet. A mediocre check will give them full information about everything within 5 feet. A bad check might give them information about one item within 5 feet.
RAW, everyone should be on straight rolls for attack, but I recommend giving everyone disadvantage instead. That will make for a more realistically clumsy fight, with everyone taking forever to land a hit.
Do they know the exact location of an enemy if it moves to another spot in the room without hiding?
Yes since you give away your position when you make noise, which you do in combat unless you're specifically hiding.
They'd know there was noise from a direction, they wouldn't specifically know what caused it, or exactly what space it came from. Humans don't have echolocation.
Just picture yourself in the middle of a chaotic fight, and you're entirely blindfolded. You hear someone running up to you. Is it a friend? Is it a foe? How can you even tell?
Unless people are chatting it up while fighting, or otherwise making some super distinctive noises, how do you identify which footsteps are whose? It'd be chaos. Just sounds, clashing swords clanking and unknown persons running around, screams of pain. Random obstacles scattering and clattering across the floor as people run into or over them.
There is absolutely no way blind people would be able to keep track of who is where in a chaotic melee like that.
Do they know the exact location of an enemy if it moves to another spot in the room without hiding?
You are only hidden if you have taken steps to hide (usually by taking the Hide Action in combat). So the general rule is - everyone knows where everyone is. If playing on a grid, everyone knows which square or hex everyone is in.
There will of course be exceptions (for example, something flying silently, a ghost perhaps).
You don't automatically know where people are just because they're not hiding. That's only if you could normally detect them easily and obviously within your passive perception score. And if you're blind you don't see anyone at all.
Imagine there are a gang of criminals inside a tavern, but it is shuttered up when the PCs approach. The criminals aren't "hiding" inside, they're just in the open middle of the tavern holding action to fire crossbows at whoever opens the door. Do the PCs know exactly which squares the criminals are in before ever walking inside? Do the PCs even know there are criminals inside at all? They're not hiding... Why/why not?
No, they don't know they're inside because they can't see inside. No they don't know what squares they're in they can't see inside. You don't need to hide to be undetected when someone wasn't capable of detecting you in the first place.
Outside combat people not in the same location is a different thing. The scenario presented here is everyone in the same room in combat. It's generally understood by most (and been debated to death) that in combat you know the location of any creature not hidden. It's about the only benefit one gets for hiding over simply being invisible.
"In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of hiding and approach a creature, it usually sees you."
Yeah. Usually it sees you. But in the pitch black of blindness, it does not see you. Because it can't see.
"If you are hidden—both unseen and unheard—when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses."
Yeah, but you don't necessarily give away your identity. If you attack the sounds of combat are heard and can be roughly guessed which space. Totally. But who are you? There isn't a clear reason they'd know that information as a guarantee. Maybe they could identify who is who if their noises are somehow unique and identifiable enough. Maybe not.
"You can’t hide from a creature that can see you clearly, and you give away your position if you make noise, such as shouting a warning or knocking over a vase. An invisible creature can’t be seen, so it can always try to hide. Signs of its passage might still be noticed, however, and it still has to stay quiet"
Giving away a location and giving away your identity aren't the same. Just aren't. You can absolutely be in a situation where you hear something bumping around in the dark and not know who or what it is.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
When unseen due to blindness or invisibility, people don't know exactly where you are with echolocation precision, they generally know your location at 5 feet about. Just enought to be able to still successfully target your space/square by detecting noise you make, tracks and sent you leave etc...
Like i said hiding - being unseen and unheard - let you hide your position, it is about the only benefit it gives over simply being invisible or otherwise unseen. Any adjucation past that point is DM call as the rules don't provide guidelines for it. DMs are free to automatically give the benefit of hiding for free, but IMO it diminish hiding in general when doing so.
For the OP scenario requiring everyone to arbitrarily target spaces would drag combat and run the risk of killing PCs with PVP. It's not something i'd personally do or recommand.
Trying to overthink it simply put more stress on the system than it was designed for. 5E is not great at replicating real-world blindfighting combat and other extraordinaire tactical circumstances. The ruleset just give enought to be able to run it smoothly in most circumstances. Corner case scenarios will raise questions that no guidelines provides.
The question of identity for exemple, or wether you know if an unseen creature is ally or enemy, is not addressed. You generally know such things immediatly in combat, or until their intentions are revealed. Playing with such aspect ally/enemy mid-combat run the risk of overcomplicating a lot of game effects such as features, spells etc that would otherwise work normally.
When unseen due to blindness or invisibility, people don't know exactly where you are with echolocation precision, they generally know your location at 5 feet about. Just enought to be able to still successfully target your space/square by detecting noise you make, tracks and sent you leave etc...
See my link above to C_C's post explaining why this isn't the RAW. I provided multiple ways to handle this consistent with the RAW, because the RAW is mostly absent for handling this.
Like i said hiding - being unseen and unheard - let you hide your position, it is about the only benefit it gives over simply being invisible or otherwise unseen. Any adjucation past that point is DM call as the rules don't provide guidelines for it. DMs are free to automatically give the benefit of hiding for free, but IMO it diminish hiding in general when doing so.
In practice your ruling is a nerf to the stealth rules, not a buff.You're arguing it should always take an action (or bonus action, if you can Hide as a bonus action) to Hide, even if circumstances render you definitely unseen for free and potentially unheard for free. That means arranging those circumstances for yourself becomes less valuable. However, as I said, there's no way out of this without a ruling. Any possible ruling will either be good for stealth or bad for stealth. It's not an intrinsic problem that this situation be ruled on in a way that is bad for stealth, but it is an intrinsic problem if the DM rules this way without understanding the consequences.
For the OP scenario requiring everyone to arbitrarily target spaces would drag combat and run the risk of killing PCs with PVP. It's not something i'd personally do or recommand.
The risk of killing PCs with PVP due to darkness sounds like an excellent element of fighting in the dark that would spice up any such potential combat. Hard approve.
Not only hiding is the only way RAW to conceal your position, its also RAI. Being blinded or invisible doesn't conceal one's position or automatically make you hidden. It requires a seperate check (which usually takes an action)
@wax_eagle can you target a creature who is obscured but not hidden? More precisely, is hidden the only way to conceal position?
@JeremyECrawfordBeing hidden is the by-the-book way to conceal your position. The DM may decide that other methods can also conceal it.
The rules are pretty clear about what happens to specific combat and skill checks when characters/creatures cannot see. Similarly, it appears as though creatures are not automatically not detected by virtue of being unseen without Hide actions. I am looking for advice on how to run other aspects of the encounter.
Here is an example. A party of human adventurers without abilities to see in darkness are met by a similarly challenged group of bandits in the cellar of a local tavern. The room is about 30x40 feet and features large casks, a few crates, tables and chairs in various spots throughout the room. Right as a combat begins, the lights in the cellar go out (doesn't matter how). Now the entire room is pitch black and no creature can see - in effect, everyone is blinded:
The Vision and Light rules similarly point back to blinded, saying nothing about movement:
A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area.
So, everybody knows that others are in the cellar - nobody is hidden at the start of combat. How do people navigate the room? Do they need to make checks to move around the room, avoid chairs and tables? Is their speed reduced due to the need to take extra care in moving? Do they know the exact location of an enemy if it moves to another spot in the room without hiding? Do creatures with and without darkvision pretty much move around with similar ease?
In this example, the combat begins with everybody getting a look at the environment before the lights go out - what if you don't know the environment and cannot see? Conceptually, this should be more challenging in that you have no idea what the environment is like.
In short, the rules seem to imply the the darkness has no effect on any of these things - I can move about the room, avoiding and interacting with obstacles at normal speed and targeting squares with enemies in them - if we both cannot see, I don't even have disadvantage. Do the rules as written provide more regarding moving in the darkness (or Blinded) than I am seeing? Any tips on how to DM movement darkness?
I was thinking that maybe there is something in the ability check failure - so, I typically do not need to make a Perception Check to avoid a chair when I can see. If somebody wants to move while blinded, I guess they automatically don't see any obstacles? Then what?
I don’t know of any established rules on this; I’ve actually been wondering about it. Sounds like some house rules might be in order!
I live with several severe autoimmune conditions. If I don’t get back to you right away, it’s probably because I’m not feeling well.
1st thing 1st. In this situation you, the DM, are going to be making a number of rulings. Yes, some rules exist to guide an encounter like this, but some of it is purely going to be on your judgement calls.
Right, so, since everyone is at disadvantage to attack because they cannot see, but at advantage to attack because their targets cannot see, this means those cancel out and everyone will be attacking normally and cannot roll with advantage or disadvantage unless the situation changes.
You had them in a lit cellar at the start, so make sure they have seen everyone's positioning. Then, hide everything from them. If you're on a virtual table top this can be done with dynamic lighting easy enough. If you're using a tabletop it gets a bit trickier, and you may end up needing to rely on them simply not metagaming knowledge they the player know but their character doesn't.
Have them simply move to where they want to move and if that path has obstacles make a call. Should they roll something or fall prone? Roll something or it is difficult terrain? Or ignore these difficulties altogether? These are entirely your calls. You'll need to take into account exactly how cramped and cluttered it is and just give them a clear ruling that makes sense.
You absolutely can if you want to. You don't have to if you don't want to. Totally your call, if you think its super hard and/or there should be consequences for messing up... have rolls.
If you want it to be difficult terrain, then yes. Though, I wouldn't specifically make an area difficult terrain for the darkness so much as for he clutter and obstacles in the area.
No, if they cannot see n enemy they cannot follow their movement. Not unless some other sense besides sight would allow them to track the target's movement. Sound might... but it'd likely be a super high DC especially in the middle of noisy combat if you even allowed it at all.
Technically yes, but you are free to impose challenges on creatures without darkvision that those with darkvision would easily avoid.
Virtual tabletops make this easier to play out, because what the player sees is what their character sees if you work with dynamic lighting into your battlemap. That said, the characters without darkvision would have no idea what they're walking into and might walk directly into extremely dangerous hazards. So obvious you, the DM, should absolutely include extremely dangerous hazards. But don't reveal stuff except the descriptions of what they feel, hear, smell, etc. Don't just say "You run into the cave wall" say "You run into something hard and solid, ungiving, it is cold and smooth to the touch and hurt a bit as you collided with it". Let them be unsure, but have reasonable guesses, as to what's around them.
The rules in this situation lean heavily on the expectation that the DM will call for checks when players are doing things that would be difficult to actually perform. Would it be difficult to run through a room with obstacles everywhere, in pitch darkness, at a full sprint? Yes. Very... very much yes. But if that is what a player wants to do, nothing prevents it, but the DM is well within their rights to call for a check.
Ask them straight up how they intend to move around in the darkness without running into anything. Listen to their answer. Then call for a check based on that response.
Say the Wizard says "I have Keen Mind, so I want to simply map the brief glance of the room I had into my mental map of this space and avoid the objects where I remember them to be" Just have him do an Int check with a moderate/low DC since he has Keen Mind to be able to do this. if he's successful he can mentally envision and rmember exactly where everything is while moving around.
Say a rogue says "I duck and weave around obstacles and if I run into anything I pivot and roll so as to keep moving unharmed" then have them roll an acrobatics check to move about without crashing into anything.
Etc. But let the players describe how they want to tackle the problem of being in a space without the ability to see and then call for a check based on their reply and assign a DC you feel makes sense given that approach.
Edit: Oh and another tip... I'm not sure how raw this is honestly but it works great for my games even if it isn't... they cannot see their enemies or even don't know where they even are... let them be able to declare a space to attack. Even if they don't know if it is occupied or not. If it isn't occupied, still have em roll, and obviously it misses. But if that space does have a creature in it have it hit/miss normally as if they attacked that creature directly. Even if that creature isn't the creature they thought was in that space. This really adds an element of friendly fire sometimes in these chaotic fights where everyone if fighting blind.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I was a halfling in a combat exactly like this - dark building, fighting an enemy without darkvision. This is how my DM ran it:
1. Speed was halved because we had to feel our way through the darkness (difficult terrain, indeed!)
2. Location of enemy (and us) was an educated guess until someone made light
3. Attempts to stealth mostly involved not making noise rather than not being seen, and thus were straight rolls
Those of us without darkvision (half the party) pretty much fumbled around in the dark and tried to find a way out until we got frustrated and cast light so we could run faster. Those with darkvision held off the baddie or guided us as best they could until we were in the clear.
Keep in mind that RAW, you cannot cast spells that target creatures behind total cover unless the spell specifically allows it. Darkness is total cover. So most spellcasters will be completely neutered in this environment until someone gets some light up. This also has serious implications for healing, as most healing spells have a sight requirement.
That said, it was one of the most memorable combats of my life! I actually enjoyed the challenge.
Can you walk around your house in complete darkness? I'm guessing, yes you can. So, if the PCs are in an area they know well (or one with few pieces of furniture that they've seen well) then they move at normal speed. If not, call it difficult terrain and they therefore move at half speed.
No checks needed. Moving while blinded over tens of feet doesn't cause much deviation from course. Over the size of a paddock, yes it does (see Mythbusters).
You are only hidden if you have taken steps to hide (usually by taking the Hide Action in combat). So the general rule is - everyone knows where everyone is. If playing on a grid, everyone knows which square or hex everyone is in.
There will of course be exceptions (for example, something flying silently, a ghost perhaps).
You don't automatically know where people are just because they're not hiding. That's only if you could normally detect them easily and obviously within your passive perception score. And if you're blind you don't see anyone at all.
Imagine there are a gang of criminals inside a tavern, but it is shuttered up when the PCs approach. The criminals aren't "hiding" inside, they're just in the open middle of the tavern holding action to fire crossbows at whoever opens the door. Do the PCs know exactly which squares the criminals are in before ever walking inside? Do the PCs even know there are criminals inside at all? They're not hiding... Why/why not?
No, they don't know they're inside because they can't see inside. No they don't know what squares they're in they can't see inside. You don't need to hide to be undetected when someone wasn't capable of detecting you in the first place.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Perception isn't just sight, it is also hearing. I agree with Greenstone though, if nobody is hiding then you know which squares they are in unless they take an action to hide (in which case, your passive Perception would probably take a -5 for being unable to see them).
Hiding when everyone is already at adv/disadv is rather pointless but important for that one character with darkvision :').
They navigate normally without making any checks. DM can always asks for ability checks that doesn't requires sight to avoid running into obstacles though.
No being blinded doesn't have any instance on your speed any more than when seeing clearly with darkvision.
Yes since you give away your position when you make noise, which you do in combat unless you're specifically hiding.
Exactly you auomatically fail ability checks that requires sight. It could perceive it in a different manner though. A DM could ask for a dexterity check to avoid tripping over an obstacle and fall prone for exemple.
Exactly it won't have any more effects that what RAW says but as a DM you can always decides there's more to it than what the rules says. One way to help impact movement when blinded could be to treat every space/squares moved as difficult terrain while you can't see.
Outside combat people not in the same location is a different thing. The scenario presented here is everyone in the same room in combat. It's generally understood by most (and been debated to death) that in combat you know the location of any creature not hidden. It's about the only benefit one gets for hiding over simply being invisible.
"In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of hiding and approach a creature, it usually sees you."
"If you are hidden—both unseen and unheard—when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses."
"You can’t hide from a creature that can see you clearly, and you give away your position if you make noise, such as shouting a warning or knocking over a vase. An invisible creature can’t be seen, so it can always try to hide. Signs of its passage might still be noticed, however, and it still has to stay quiet"
As others previously said, this will be down to DM rulings mostly.
After a quick thought, I would ask all players to roll a perception check and set a DC. If they pass it, then they can recall approximately where the objects are.
In regards to moving, I would say half speed is reasonable. If however a player wants to move at full speed or dash, then if they hit an object I would ask for an acrobatics check and on failure, that character is now prone.
As for attacking each other, I think that the attacking whilst on darkness rules make no sense i.e advantage and disadvantage cancelling out and everyone is attacking each other as if they are in the middle of a field on bright daylight. I would black out the whole map and characters will have to select a random square to attack. If an enemy happens to be there, then that attack is made with disadvantage. If no one is there, the attack misses obviously.
It absolutely is not, and if it were, darkness would also protect you (without any rolls) from all attacks, which it doesn't do.
This works exactly the same way as if the creature you can't see is invisible - and there is no consistent RAW on this. Finding two DMs who disagree on how to handle this is about as hard as throwing a rock up in the air and hitting the ground.
If you want an in-depth listing of the relevant RAW, here's a truly excellent post by Chicken_Champ: https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/rules-game-mechanics/102520-if-at-disadvantage-always-fight-blind#c13
Here's a summary of the ways I've seen DMs claim they handle this:
As far as being able to navigate obstacles, leave it up to player memory. Show them the battle map, then hide it when the lights go out. Players can move at full speed, if they tell you left-up-up-right-up-right. If they run into a chair, they fall prone. Or they can use their action to make a Perception check at disadvantage (feeling around in the dark). A very good check will give them full information about everything within 10 feet. A mediocre check will give them full information about everything within 5 feet. A bad check might give them information about one item within 5 feet.
RAW, everyone should be on straight rolls for attack, but I recommend giving everyone disadvantage instead. That will make for a more realistically clumsy fight, with everyone taking forever to land a hit.
They'd know there was noise from a direction, they wouldn't specifically know what caused it, or exactly what space it came from. Humans don't have echolocation.
Just picture yourself in the middle of a chaotic fight, and you're entirely blindfolded. You hear someone running up to you. Is it a friend? Is it a foe? How can you even tell?
Unless people are chatting it up while fighting, or otherwise making some super distinctive noises, how do you identify which footsteps are whose? It'd be chaos. Just sounds, clashing swords clanking and unknown persons running around, screams of pain. Random obstacles scattering and clattering across the floor as people run into or over them.
There is absolutely no way blind people would be able to keep track of who is where in a chaotic melee like that.
Yeah. Usually it sees you. But in the pitch black of blindness, it does not see you. Because it can't see.
Yeah, but you don't necessarily give away your identity. If you attack the sounds of combat are heard and can be roughly guessed which space. Totally. But who are you? There isn't a clear reason they'd know that information as a guarantee. Maybe they could identify who is who if their noises are somehow unique and identifiable enough. Maybe not.
Giving away a location and giving away your identity aren't the same. Just aren't. You can absolutely be in a situation where you hear something bumping around in the dark and not know who or what it is.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
When unseen due to blindness or invisibility, people don't know exactly where you are with echolocation precision, they generally know your location at 5 feet about. Just enought to be able to still successfully target your space/square by detecting noise you make, tracks and sent you leave etc...
Like i said hiding - being unseen and unheard - let you hide your position, it is about the only benefit it gives over simply being invisible or otherwise unseen. Any adjucation past that point is DM call as the rules don't provide guidelines for it. DMs are free to automatically give the benefit of hiding for free, but IMO it diminish hiding in general when doing so.
For the OP scenario requiring everyone to arbitrarily target spaces would drag combat and run the risk of killing PCs with PVP. It's not something i'd personally do or recommand.
Trying to overthink it simply put more stress on the system than it was designed for. 5E is not great at replicating real-world blindfighting combat and other extraordinaire tactical circumstances. The ruleset just give enought to be able to run it smoothly in most circumstances. Corner case scenarios will raise questions that no guidelines provides.
The question of identity for exemple, or wether you know if an unseen creature is ally or enemy, is not addressed. You generally know such things immediatly in combat, or until their intentions are revealed. Playing with such aspect ally/enemy mid-combat run the risk of overcomplicating a lot of game effects such as features, spells etc that would otherwise work normally.
See my link above to C_C's post explaining why this isn't the RAW. I provided multiple ways to handle this consistent with the RAW, because the RAW is mostly absent for handling this.
In practice your ruling is a nerf to the stealth rules, not a buff. You're arguing it should always take an action (or bonus action, if you can Hide as a bonus action) to Hide, even if circumstances render you definitely unseen for free and potentially unheard for free. That means arranging those circumstances for yourself becomes less valuable. However, as I said, there's no way out of this without a ruling. Any possible ruling will either be good for stealth or bad for stealth. It's not an intrinsic problem that this situation be ruled on in a way that is bad for stealth, but it is an intrinsic problem if the DM rules this way without understanding the consequences.
The risk of killing PCs with PVP due to darkness sounds like an excellent element of fighting in the dark that would spice up any such potential combat. Hard approve.
RAW Hiding is an action. DM are free to rule otherwise of course.