The main issue is: you can only do this when mounted. Jeremy Crawford has stated that while mounted, paladins on their mounts follow the mounted combat rules. Those rules state that the mount can only dash, disengage, or dodge. No attacks. Also, using these rules, both go on the same initiative order.
But, there are plenty of DMs, myself included, that allow the paladin to use the independent mount rules, since it is an intelligent creatures communicating telepathically with the paladin. This way, there are no restrictions to what it can do, but it has it's own initiative using these rules. Unless you get real lucky with rolls, it's not going to work out very well. This ruling is used most when the paladin dismounts and the mount still fights with no rider. Not mounted means no spell.
Even if you have a DM that homebrews the rules to allow for you to be riding and both you and the mount to attack on the same initiative, it still is just one spell. Both you and the mount don't get the smite. Whichever one of you hits first gets it. Typically, the mount goes first. (Movement to get you where you want to be.) Mount moves, mount attacks. You attack, then cast the bonus action spell, but it won't kick in until next turn when the mount attacks. Plus, your to hit is probably higher, so it would make sense just to cast it before you attack and use it yourself.
The main issue is: you can only do this when mounted. Jeremy Crawford has stated that while mounted, paladins on their mounts follow the mounted combat rules. Those rules state that the mount can only dash, disengage, or dodge. No attacks. Also, using these rules, both go on the same initiative order.
I think that applies in the case where the rider is controlling the mount--not when the rider allows the mount to act independently, per PHB 198 "You can either control the mount or allow it to act independently. Intelligent creatures, such as dragons, act independently." In the case where the rider allows it to act independently, it has its own initiative and is free to take its own actions.
Even if you have a DM that homebrews the rules to allow for you to be riding and both you and the mount to attack on the same initiative, it still is just one spell.
So are you saying in the case of Misty Step the mount is going to teleport away and leave his rider sitting in the air?
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Technically, yes, however if I were the DM and a character tried that (with their mount under their control and therefore acting as they direct) I'd allow them to both misty step at the same time and the paladin to remain mounted, as the visual of that is super cool.
Some disagreement here with Blinding Smite and Find Steed. Does the spell qualify for Find Steed's spell effect duplication? (I personally think it doesn't, as I consider the attacked creature a second target, but we're arguing about it over at r/dndnext)
Blinding Smite has a range of self, and it refers to the creature you attack as a target. Those two facts together mean the spell doesn't target only you.
All the smite spells refer to the affected other creature as a target. Therefore, since they don't target only you, the steed does not gain the benefit of the spell.
Out of curiosity, If I were to cast Divine Favor while mounted than dismounted would Me and my steed get the 1d4 dmg as long as I hold Concentration or would the effect drop on the steed?
Not really. The usage of the word 'target' there is talking about the target of your melee attack, not the target of the spell. The spell has a range of self and only targets you. You can absolutely share smites with your steed.
Out of curiosity, If I were to cast Divine Favor while mounted than dismounted would Me and my steed get the 1d4 dmg as long as I hold Concentration or would the effect drop on the steed?
"While mounted on your steed, you can make any spell you cast that targets only you also target your steed." This only has the restriction of being on the mount for the targeting of the spell. Maintaining the effect works as normal and it lasts its normal duration, even if you dismount.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Not really. The usage of the word 'target' there is talking about the target of your melee attack, not the target of the spell. The spell has a range of self and only targets you. You can absolutely share smites with your steed.
Not certain I agree with this here since, as previously established by JC post-Tasha's, a range of self is not necessarily a target of self such as the case for War Caster + Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade still working since the caster is not the target but rather its point of origin. The same is true for the Smite spells. You are the spell's point of origin, not its target. RAW, I don't think it should work.
This is just my opinion but here is how I would rule the following:
Dragon's Breath - this is tricky but I would say yes. I would say the effect of the spell is to grant a new action. So I would say the spell only targets you and meets the requirements for Find Steed duplication. However to allow your mount to use said action you would need to have your mount acting independently. There is an argument to be had over which is the specific rule though. Is it the spell effect or the restriction on controlled mount actions?
Destructive Wave - Technically possible but a bad idea. The spell targets any number of creatures you want within 30 feet of you. If you target only yourself with the spell then it does meet the requirements of Find Steed. This would let you deal the damage to yourself and your steed. This is pointless though as the spell could already target both you and your mount. Or better yet you could target your enemies with the spell.
Divine Favor - Absolutely. Though for your mount to benefit they would need to act independently in order to be able to take the attack action.
Crusader's Mantle - No. The spell effects all friendly creatures within 30 feet of you. The only way I could see there being an interaction with Find Steed is if somehow everyone within 30 feet were hostile to you, including your steed that you are mounted on.
I am going off the restriction on Find Steed only duplicating effects that target only you.
Not really. The usage of the word 'target' there is talking about the target of your melee attack, not the target of the spell. The spell has a range of self and only targets you. You can absolutely share smites with your steed.
I really don't know how to answer this. If you want to say that find steed only cares about the casting target (the caster) then yes, you're right. It meets the criteria. But if you want to look at the spell as having a casting target as well as a spell effect target, then it isn't quite as straightforward.
You know, it occurs to me that it's a moot point about find steed and branding smite anyway. It's a single spell with two targets. As soon as either you use it, the spell ends, so there can be no benefit to both rider and steed being targeted by the spell.
You know, it occurs to me that it's a moot point about find steed and branding smite anyway. It's a single spell with two targets. As soon as either you use it, the spell ends, so there can be no benefit to both rider and steed being targeted by the spell.
Exactly! If either triggers the spell effect the spell itself ends, so the other can't make use of it.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
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Under the rules for Find Steed a Paladin could use something like Thunderous Smite to get his mount an enchanted attack, correct?
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D&D Beyond FoundersThat looks like it works to me, yes. :)
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I agree, specifically since the wording says that spells that target only you also target your steed that is indeed how it would work.
The main issue is: you can only do this when mounted. Jeremy Crawford has stated that while mounted, paladins on their mounts follow the mounted combat rules. Those rules state that the mount can only dash, disengage, or dodge. No attacks. Also, using these rules, both go on the same initiative order.
But, there are plenty of DMs, myself included, that allow the paladin to use the independent mount rules, since it is an intelligent creatures communicating telepathically with the paladin. This way, there are no restrictions to what it can do, but it has it's own initiative using these rules. Unless you get real lucky with rolls, it's not going to work out very well. This ruling is used most when the paladin dismounts and the mount still fights with no rider. Not mounted means no spell.
Even if you have a DM that homebrews the rules to allow for you to be riding and both you and the mount to attack on the same initiative, it still is just one spell. Both you and the mount don't get the smite. Whichever one of you hits first gets it. Typically, the mount goes first. (Movement to get you where you want to be.) Mount moves, mount attacks. You attack, then cast the bonus action spell, but it won't kick in until next turn when the mount attacks. Plus, your to hit is probably higher, so it would make sense just to cast it before you attack and use it yourself.
I think that applies in the case where the rider is controlling the mount--not when the rider allows the mount to act independently, per PHB 198 "You can either control the mount or allow it to act independently. Intelligent creatures, such as dragons, act independently." In the case where the rider allows it to act independently, it has its own initiative and is free to take its own actions.
That's how I understand it anyway.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
So are you saying in the case of Misty Step the mount is going to teleport away and leave his rider sitting in the air?
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D&D Beyond FoundersTechnically, yes, however if I were the DM and a character tried that (with their mount under their control and therefore acting as they direct) I'd allow them to both misty step at the same time and the paladin to remain mounted, as the visual of that is super cool.
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Not at all. Even though it is a single spell, it clearly says it targets you both.
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ModeratorThis would not work, as noted by InquisitiveCoder in this related thread: https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/rules-game-mechanics/23153-find-steed-searing-smite-combo#c6
Per a July 2018 tweet by Jeremy Crawford about another "smite" spell, blinding smite:
All the smite spells refer to the affected other creature as a target. Therefore, since they don't target only you, the steed does not gain the benefit of the spell.
(As always, DMs can house-rule otherwise.)
Good catch, albeit a disappointing one.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Dragon's Breath
Destructive Wave ?
Divine Favor
Crusader's Mantle double stack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Out of curiosity, If I were to cast Divine Favor while mounted than dismounted would Me and my steed get the 1d4 dmg as long as I hold Concentration or would the effect drop on the steed?
- Griandris Dra'core
Not really. The usage of the word 'target' there is talking about the target of your melee attack, not the target of the spell. The spell has a range of self and only targets you. You can absolutely share smites with your steed.
"While mounted on your steed, you can make any spell you cast that targets only you also target your steed." This only has the restriction of being on the mount for the targeting of the spell. Maintaining the effect works as normal and it lasts its normal duration, even if you dismount.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Not certain I agree with this here since, as previously established by JC post-Tasha's, a range of self is not necessarily a target of self such as the case for War Caster + Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade still working since the caster is not the target but rather its point of origin. The same is true for the Smite spells. You are the spell's point of origin, not its target. RAW, I don't think it should work.
This is just my opinion but here is how I would rule the following:
Dragon's Breath - this is tricky but I would say yes. I would say the effect of the spell is to grant a new action. So I would say the spell only targets you and meets the requirements for Find Steed duplication. However to allow your mount to use said action you would need to have your mount acting independently. There is an argument to be had over which is the specific rule though. Is it the spell effect or the restriction on controlled mount actions?
Destructive Wave - Technically possible but a bad idea. The spell targets any number of creatures you want within 30 feet of you. If you target only yourself with the spell then it does meet the requirements of Find Steed. This would let you deal the damage to yourself and your steed. This is pointless though as the spell could already target both you and your mount. Or better yet you could target your enemies with the spell.
Divine Favor - Absolutely. Though for your mount to benefit they would need to act independently in order to be able to take the attack action.
Crusader's Mantle - No. The spell effects all friendly creatures within 30 feet of you. The only way I could see there being an interaction with Find Steed is if somehow everyone within 30 feet were hostile to you, including your steed that you are mounted on.
I am going off the restriction on Find Steed only duplicating effects that target only you.
I really don't know how to answer this. If you want to say that find steed only cares about the casting target (the caster) then yes, you're right. It meets the criteria. But if you want to look at the spell as having a casting target as well as a spell effect target, then it isn't quite as straightforward.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
You know, it occurs to me that it's a moot point about find steed and branding smite anyway. It's a single spell with two targets. As soon as either you use it, the spell ends, so there can be no benefit to both rider and steed being targeted by the spell.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Exactly! If either triggers the spell effect the spell itself ends, so the other can't make use of it.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.