So, if a PC wants to knock out an enemy, all he has to do is declare a KO when the enemy hits zero HP, if he's making a melee attack. Easy-peasy.
How does that work for NPCs? Without resorting to spells like Sleep or whatever, how do NPCs score knockouts? Do they declare the KO when the PC hits zero, then if the PC fails 3 death saves he's just totally out cold for however long?
Generally unless the DM is knocking out PCs for plot a PC has their hp reduced to 0, then they roll death saving throws. 3 fails is death. 3 successes is stabilized but unconscious. The player rolls a d4 to see how many hours they are knocked out for... I guess that's how but the game puts in effort to keep PCs alive.
Why would the rules for knock outs be any different when used against PCs vs NPCs? The rules say you declare to KO and at 0 hp, the target falls unconscious AND stable. No death saves.
Why would the rules for knock outs be any different when used against PCs vs NPCs? The rules say you declare to KO and at 0 hp, the target falls unconscious AND stable. No death saves.
True, guess I was overthinking it.
Edit: Thinking more about it, I think I was thinking "They have a chance to wake up from being KO'd by someone trying to kill them, it seems logical they would have a chance to wake up from a non-lethal KO."
Tell the PCs while you are doing it. When you say: “The bugbear hits you for 12 nonlethal damage, it looks like they are just trying to knock you out.” The party will freak out. Players are used to being attacked, but being taken prisoner, for some reason, always seems to up the psychological stakes.
I just had this situation happen yesterday in my Sand & Magic campaign. The party was trying to defeat some black market slavers who had attacked a monastery. One of the players got surrounded and was hit with some pretty bad attacks. Since they were slavers, the idea of killing potential paychecks was a bad business decision, so they knocked her out. The idea was, if it were to be a TPK, it would instead be them waking up as captives of the slavers.
There's no difference between an NPC or a PC declaring that they're dealing non-lethal damage to their targets. It's a good way to punish players for poor decisions without a TPK. Now they have to waste their time trying to escape, regain their gear, prove that they're not weaklings instead of heroes, and just about anything else other than rolling up a new sheet.
Why would the rules for knock outs be any different when used against PCs vs NPCs? The rules say you declare to KO and at 0 hp, the target falls unconscious AND stable. No death saves.
True, guess I was overthinking it.
Edit: Thinking more about it, I think I was thinking "They have a chance to wake up from being KO'd by someone trying to kill them, it seems logical they would have a chance to wake up from a non-lethal KO."
Yep, still 1d4 hours. If you are brought to 0 hp from life threatening damage, you can stabilize and stay at 0 hp by making death saves. Someone can stabilize you with a Medicine check or you can be KO'ed to 0 hp and stable.
Being KO'ed seems more like a plot device and the length of unconsciousness or how easily you regain hit points might vary according to the DM's plans.
Why would the rules for knock outs be any different when used against PCs vs NPCs? The rules say you declare to KO and at 0 hp, the target falls unconscious AND stable. No death saves.
True, guess I was overthinking it.
Edit: Thinking more about it, I think I was thinking "They have a chance to wake up from being KO'd by someone trying to kill them, it seems logical they would have a chance to wake up from a non-lethal KO."
Yep, still 1d4 hours. If you are brought to 0 hp from life threatening damage, you can stabilize and stay at 0 hp by making death saves. Someone can stabilize you with a Medicine check or you can be KO'ed to 0 hp and stable.
Being KO'ed seems more like a plot device and the length of unconsciousness or how easily you regain hit points might vary according to the DM's plans.
Looks like I got here too late and everything I could have contributed to the discussion has been said.
Scenario: Barbarian goes down to 0hp and npc uses non-lethal to knock the barbarian out with his first of three attacks, but hits the barbarian 2 more times after he's down because the barbarian beat the crap out of three of his friends. Would those attacks cause two failed death saves and would the barbarian need to make the third death save on his next turn?
Scenario: Barbarian goes down to 0hp and npc uses non-lethal to knock the barbarian out with his first of three attacks, but hits the barbarian 2 more times after he's down because the barbarian beat the crap out of three of his friends. Would those attacks cause two failed death saves and would the barbarian need to make the third death save on his next turn?
Depends really, is the NPC doing damage or just making a point of humiliating the barbarian for plot reasons?
If damage is done then normal rules apply so;
Damage at 0 Hit Points. If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death saving throw failure. If the damage is from a critical hit, you suffer two failures instead. If the damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum, you suffer instant death.
You might also want to remember this part from the unconscious condition;
Any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature.
So realistically the barbarian has just lost four death saving throws...
Most creatures reduced to 0 hit point are either unconscious or dead. In the rules there os the option between the two for monsters while for characters they fall unconscious and are dying instead , until they are stable or dead. A DM can always have one be stable as default when knocked out.
Scenario: Barbarian goes down to 0hp and npc uses non-lethal to knock the barbarian out with his first of three attacks, but hits the barbarian 2 more times after he's down because the barbarian beat the crap out of three of his friends. Would those attacks cause two failed death saves and would the barbarian need to make the third death save on his next turn?
No. Two successful attacks from with 5' [edited to match the rest of the post] that do any damage at all will kill the creature that is at 0 hit points (there is no option to do non-lethal damage against a downed target - death is controlled by failed death saves not damage at that point).
This is because:
1) Successful attacks against an unconscious target within 5' are considered critical hits.
Unconscious: "Any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature."
They also have advantage to hit on the attacks within 5'.
2) Critical hits cause 2 failed death saves and not just one.
"Damage at 0 Hit Points. If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death saving throw failure. If the damage is from a critical hit, you suffer two failures instead. If the damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum, you suffer instant death."
Two successful melee attacks against an unconscious target cause 4 failed death saves and kill the downed creature. So if the NPC decides to beat on the barbarian a couple times when they are unconscious then the barbarian dies. However, one hit would leave the barbarian with 2 failed death saves if that is your goal.
Attacks that hit an unconscious creature are only critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of it, otherwise it's a normal hit. Also it's all about distance, not attack type.. Ranged attack made from 5 feet away will auto crit while melee attacks with reach made from farther away won't.
There are rules for 'Knocking Out a Creature': "Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable."
This rule applies to to PC's and NPC's alike, as adjudicated by a DM. There are plenty of ways to interpret how this works after the fact. There are no specific rules for 'non-lethal' damage in 5e. The RAW pretty much are same for 0hp. However if you have been trying to solely knock a creature out, a DM might rule that they have all their HP, but are just unconscious.
Hit points are completely abstract and don't technically related to stabs, blood-loss, or other physical manifestations of damage (unless your DM says otherwise). Instead they are that abstract combination of ones physical toughness, combat intuition to turn a deadly blow into a grazing blow, sheer luck to not die when the ancient dragon bites you or the lich hits you with disintegrate.
So ask your DM how they would rule in a hypothetical situation. Many will (and have) argued a fight with a dragon reducing you to zero and a 'friendly' bar room brawl reducing you to zero are totally separate things... unless the DM decides they are not.
Always remember to balance the RAW, RAI, and RAF to make your D&D game a fun one, not a debate on mechanical minutia!
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Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game.
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So, if a PC wants to knock out an enemy, all he has to do is declare a KO when the enemy hits zero HP, if he's making a melee attack. Easy-peasy.
How does that work for NPCs? Without resorting to spells like Sleep or whatever, how do NPCs score knockouts? Do they declare the KO when the PC hits zero, then if the PC fails 3 death saves he's just totally out cold for however long?
Generally unless the DM is knocking out PCs for plot a PC has their hp reduced to 0, then they roll death saving throws. 3 fails is death. 3 successes is stabilized but unconscious. The player rolls a d4 to see how many hours they are knocked out for... I guess that's how but the game puts in effort to keep PCs alive.
Why would the rules for knock outs be any different when used against PCs vs NPCs? The rules say you declare to KO and at 0 hp, the target falls unconscious AND stable. No death saves.
True, guess I was overthinking it.
Edit: Thinking more about it, I think I was thinking "They have a chance to wake up from being KO'd by someone trying to kill them, it seems logical they would have a chance to wake up from a non-lethal KO."
Tell the PCs while you are doing it. When you say: “The bugbear hits you for 12 nonlethal damage, it looks like they are just trying to knock you out.” The party will freak out. Players are used to being attacked, but being taken prisoner, for some reason, always seems to up the psychological stakes.
I just had this situation happen yesterday in my Sand & Magic campaign. The party was trying to defeat some black market slavers who had attacked a monastery. One of the players got surrounded and was hit with some pretty bad attacks. Since they were slavers, the idea of killing potential paychecks was a bad business decision, so they knocked her out. The idea was, if it were to be a TPK, it would instead be them waking up as captives of the slavers.
There's no difference between an NPC or a PC declaring that they're dealing non-lethal damage to their targets. It's a good way to punish players for poor decisions without a TPK. Now they have to waste their time trying to escape, regain their gear, prove that they're not weaklings instead of heroes, and just about anything else other than rolling up a new sheet.
Yep, still 1d4 hours. If you are brought to 0 hp from life threatening damage, you can stabilize and stay at 0 hp by making death saves. Someone can stabilize you with a Medicine check or you can be KO'ed to 0 hp and stable.
Being KO'ed seems more like a plot device and the length of unconsciousness or how easily you regain hit points might vary according to the DM's plans.
Looks like I got here too late and everything I could have contributed to the discussion has been said.
Scenario: Barbarian goes down to 0hp and npc uses non-lethal to knock the barbarian out with his first of three attacks, but hits the barbarian 2 more times after he's down because the barbarian beat the crap out of three of his friends. Would those attacks cause two failed death saves and would the barbarian need to make the third death save on his next turn?
Depends really, is the NPC doing damage or just making a point of humiliating the barbarian for plot reasons?
If damage is done then normal rules apply so;
You might also want to remember this part from the unconscious condition;
So realistically the barbarian has just lost four death saving throws...
Most creatures reduced to 0 hit point are either unconscious or dead. In the rules there os the option between the two for monsters while for characters they fall unconscious and are dying instead , until they are stable or dead. A DM can always have one be stable as default when knocked out.
No. Two successful attacks from with 5' [edited to match the rest of the post] that do any damage at all will kill the creature that is at 0 hit points (there is no option to do non-lethal damage against a downed target - death is controlled by failed death saves not damage at that point).
This is because:
1) Successful attacks against an unconscious target within 5' are considered critical hits.
Unconscious: "Any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature."
They also have advantage to hit on the attacks within 5'.
2) Critical hits cause 2 failed death saves and not just one.
"Damage at 0 Hit Points. If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death saving throw failure. If the damage is from a critical hit, you suffer two failures instead. If the damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum, you suffer instant death."
Two successful melee attacks against an unconscious target cause 4 failed death saves and kill the downed creature. So if the NPC decides to beat on the barbarian a couple times when they are unconscious then the barbarian dies. However, one hit would leave the barbarian with 2 failed death saves if that is your goal.
Attacks that hit an unconscious creature are only critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of it, otherwise it's a normal hit. Also it's all about distance, not attack type.. Ranged attack made from 5 feet away will auto crit while melee attacks with reach made from farther away won't.
There are rules for 'Knocking Out a Creature': "Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable."
This rule applies to to PC's and NPC's alike, as adjudicated by a DM. There are plenty of ways to interpret how this works after the fact. There are no specific rules for 'non-lethal' damage in 5e. The RAW pretty much are same for 0hp. However if you have been trying to solely knock a creature out, a DM might rule that they have all their HP, but are just unconscious.
Hit points are completely abstract and don't technically related to stabs, blood-loss, or other physical manifestations of damage (unless your DM says otherwise). Instead they are that abstract combination of ones physical toughness, combat intuition to turn a deadly blow into a grazing blow, sheer luck to not die when the ancient dragon bites you or the lich hits you with disintegrate.
So ask your DM how they would rule in a hypothetical situation. Many will (and have) argued a fight with a dragon reducing you to zero and a 'friendly' bar room brawl reducing you to zero are totally separate things... unless the DM decides they are not.
Always remember to balance the RAW, RAI, and RAF to make your D&D game a fun one, not a debate on mechanical minutia!
Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game.