Hi. I was DMing an adventure with my players and one of them, who's playing a bard, used Dissonant Whispers on an enemy creature. The creature failed the saving throw and that raised a few questions.
This spell says that a target that fails the saving throw "must immediately use its reaction, if available, to move as far as its speed allows away from you."
1. Does this mean the enemy's movement for the turn is consumed, in case it didn't have it's turn yet? And in the same fashion, if the enemy acted before the bard and spent all its movement, then it can't move now? I'm thinking now that the sort of movement that happens during a reaction is independent from the total movement the character has taken, unless something else is specified in the reaction/trigger, after reading the PHB > Chapter 9 > Your Turn: "On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed and take one action." Since the reaction does not happen on the enemy's turn, movement as a reaction is not counted against the movement taken during the turn.
2. The enemy in question was a homebrew creation that had a reaction that triggered when it took damage, and allowed it to teleport up to 15ft. to a place it could see. I argued that it could use this ability, since it was in tandem with the spell's effect - the reaction would be consumed and it would be used to make the creature get further away from the bard. My players argued that the spell indicated the creature must use its movement, not special abilities, and I ruled in their favor to move combat forward. Reading the spell's description now, I don't agree that the spell says anything about how the target moves, only that it must move away from the caster as much as it can.
The movement associated with the reaction of Dissonant Whispers has nothing to do with the movement available to a character on its turn. So, whether or not the character has used the movement on the round, it must move again with the reaction.
This, I think, is a conflict between two reactions that have the same trigger. In this case, the DM must use its best judgement on which reaction takes place, but in a round, only one reaction can be used.
This, I think, is a conflict between two reactions that have the same trigger. In this case, the DM must use its best judgement on which reaction takes place, but in a round, only one reaction can be used.
Strictly speaking the reaction from Dissonant Whispers happens after the saving throw, which happens after taking damage. A reaction that's triggered off of taking damage would go before Dissonant Whisper's reaction.
This, I think, is a conflict between two reactions that have the same trigger. In this case, the DM must use its best judgement on which reaction takes place, but in a round, only one reaction can be used.
Strictly speaking the reaction from Dissonant Whispers happens after the saving throw, which happens after taking damage. A reaction that's triggered off of taking damage would go before Dissonant Whisper's reaction.
InquisitiveCoder: Incorrect. First comes the saving throw, then the damage and forced reaction, which appear to be simultaneous. That would suggest that the spell's secondary effect would trigger ever-so-slightly before any reactions triggered by the damage. On the other hand, the teleporting in this example is no doubt much faster than the movement, so . . .
Filcat: While you're here, there's a space in front of a comma in the middle of dissonant whispers' third sentence.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
InquisitiveCoder: Incorrect. First comes the saving throw, then the damage and forced reaction, which appear to be simultaneous.
You're right about the saving throw coming first, but generally the text is written in the order things are meant to happen, and the damage is before the reaction. Even if you rule they're simultaneous, you'd get the same result using the optional rule in Xanathar's Guide to Everything for adjudicating simultaneous effects, which lets the creature whose turn it is decide, and they'd decide to use their own reaction first.
I tend to err toward the type of triggered reactions used in MTG, which can be understood as "Last in First Out". In this case the order would look like:
1) Saving Throw 2) Damage 3a) Dissonant Whisper's Reaction 3b) Creature's Reaction The Creature would teleport, thus using up it's reaction for the turn.
However, the reactions are simultaneous, so it's up to the DM to adjudicate this one. It's much the same as two players saying "I kick the door down." vs "I shoot a fireball at the door." One of those actions has to happen before the other even though both players decided to act simultaneously.
This discussion seems to be missing the point. A reaction ability is something that you CAN do, while the spell says that you MUST use your reaction. So as soon as you fail the saving throw your reaction is spoken for.
Hi. I was DMing an adventure with my players and one of them, who's playing a bard, used Dissonant Whispers on an enemy creature. The creature failed the saving throw and that raised a few questions.
This spell says that a target that fails the saving throw "must immediately use its reaction, if available, to move as far as its speed allows away from you."
1. Does this mean the enemy's movement for the turn is consumed, in case it didn't have it's turn yet? And in the same fashion, if the enemy acted before the bard and spent all its movement, then it can't move now? I'm thinking now that the sort of movement that happens during a reaction is independent from the total movement the character has taken, unless something else is specified in the reaction/trigger, after reading the PHB > Chapter 9 > Your Turn: "On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed and take one action." Since the reaction does not happen on the enemy's turn, movement as a reaction is not counted against the movement taken during the turn.
2. The enemy in question was a homebrew creation that had a reaction that triggered when it took damage, and allowed it to teleport up to 15ft. to a place it could see. I argued that it could use this ability, since it was in tandem with the spell's effect - the reaction would be consumed and it would be used to make the creature get further away from the bard. My players argued that the spell indicated the creature must use its movement, not special abilities, and I ruled in their favor to move combat forward. Reading the spell's description now, I don't agree that the spell says anything about how the target moves, only that it must move away from the caster as much as it can.
What do you guys think?
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Hi. I was DMing an adventure with my players and one of them, who's playing a bard, used Dissonant Whispers on an enemy creature. The creature failed the saving throw and that raised a few questions.
This spell says that a target that fails the saving throw "must immediately use its reaction, if available, to move as far as its speed allows away from you."
1. Does this mean the enemy's movement for the turn is consumed, in case it didn't have it's turn yet? And in the same fashion, if the enemy acted before the bard and spent all its movement, then it can't move now? I'm thinking now that the sort of movement that happens during a reaction is independent from the total movement the character has taken, unless something else is specified in the reaction/trigger, after reading the PHB > Chapter 9 > Your Turn: "On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed and take one action." Since the reaction does not happen on the enemy's turn, movement as a reaction is not counted against the movement taken during the turn.
2. The enemy in question was a homebrew creation that had a reaction that triggered when it took damage, and allowed it to teleport up to 15ft. to a place it could see. I argued that it could use this ability, since it was in tandem with the spell's effect - the reaction would be consumed and it would be used to make the creature get further away from the bard. My players argued that the spell indicated the creature must use its movement, not special abilities, and I ruled in their favor to move combat forward. Reading the spell's description now, I don't agree that the spell says anything about how the target moves, only that it must move away from the caster as much as it can.
What do you guys think?
Hi, below it's my thinking on the two matters:
Strictly speaking the reaction from Dissonant Whispers happens after the saving throw, which happens after taking damage. A reaction that's triggered off of taking damage would go before Dissonant Whisper's reaction.
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InquisitiveCoder: Incorrect. First comes the saving throw, then the damage and forced reaction, which appear to be simultaneous. That would suggest that the spell's secondary effect would trigger ever-so-slightly before any reactions triggered by the damage. On the other hand, the teleporting in this example is no doubt much faster than the movement, so . . .
Filcat: While you're here, there's a space in front of a comma in the middle of dissonant whispers' third sentence.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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You're right about the saving throw coming first, but generally the text is written in the order things are meant to happen, and the damage is before the reaction. Even if you rule they're simultaneous, you'd get the same result using the optional rule in Xanathar's Guide to Everything for adjudicating simultaneous effects, which lets the creature whose turn it is decide, and they'd decide to use their own reaction first.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
I tend to err toward the type of triggered reactions used in MTG, which can be understood as "Last in First Out". In this case the order would look like:
1) Saving Throw
2) Damage
3a) Dissonant Whisper's Reaction
3b) Creature's Reaction
The Creature would teleport, thus using up it's reaction for the turn.
However, the reactions are simultaneous, so it's up to the DM to adjudicate this one. It's much the same as two players saying "I kick the door down." vs "I shoot a fireball at the door." One of those actions has to happen before the other even though both players decided to act simultaneously.
This discussion seems to be missing the point. A reaction ability is something that you CAN do, while the spell says that you MUST use your reaction. So as soon as you fail the saving throw your reaction is spoken for.