RAW or RAI, are raw materials items that are affected by the Crafter Discount? Are they ever an item or are they just a mechanism by which you expend gold to craft?
Discount. Whenever you buy a nonmagical item, you receive a 20 percent discount on it.
Does this only apply to final item purchases or does it apply to paying for raw materials as well?
I don't think there's a solid RAW answer to this one, but in practice I'd allow that discount to be applied to anything non-magical, including raw materials. It seems simpler.
I don't think there's a solid RAW answer to this one, but in practice I'd allow that discount to be applied to anything non-magical, including raw materials. It seems simpler.
In your take, would it apply to the raw materials to craft magic items?
I don't think there's a solid RAW answer to this one, but in practice I'd allow that discount to be applied to anything non-magical, including raw materials. It seems simpler.
In your take, would it apply to the raw materials to craft magic items?
Sure, I don't think those are generally considered "magical" prior to being turned into a magic item.
RAW or RAI, are raw materials items that are affected by the Crafter Discount? Are they ever an item or are they just a mechanism by which you expend gold to craft?
Discount. Whenever you buy a nonmagical item, you receive a 20 percent discount on it.
Does this only apply to final item purchases or does it apply to paying for raw materials as well?
I think (or I want to believe) the intent is to apply discounts to nonmagical items from, for example, Chapter 6: Equipment, but...
RAW or RAI, are raw materials items that are affected by the Crafter Discount? Are they ever an item or are they just a mechanism by which you expend gold to craft?
Discount. Whenever you buy a nonmagical item, you receive a 20 percent discount on it.
Does this only apply to final item purchases or does it apply to paying for raw materials as well?
I think (or I want to believe) the intent is to apply discounts to nonmagical items from, for example, Chapter 6: Equipment, but...
I haven't played a character with this feat, but I feel like I'd be real annoyed if I tried to buy, like, a chair or something equally basic and mundane, but the DM told me I didn't get the 20% discount because it's not on the equipment list.
Sorry wagnarokkr, I didn't mean that, that was just an example of items where I think the feat applies. In general, I think it applies to already crafted items, though I'm not going to argue the opposite.
Sorry wagnarokkr, I didn't mean that, that was just an example of items where I think the feat applies. In general, I think it applies to already crafted items, though I'm not going to argue the opposite.
Ah, I see what you're saying. I suppose D&D could use a more rigorous definition of "item" for situations like this.
Sorry wagnarokkr, I didn't mean that, that was just an example of items where I think the feat applies. In general, I think it applies to already crafted items, though I'm not going to argue the opposite.
Ah, I see what you're saying. I suppose D&D could use a more rigorous definition of "item" for situations like this.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. Frankly, your POV is perfectly valid. I just wanted to share my gut feeling.
It's very open-ended as written the discount is on any nonmagical item so i'd wouldn't see why it would not include raw material since crafters rely on this a lot.
In practice it may end up being a function of what, if any, narrative reason for the discount existing the DM comes up with. The feat doesn't really do anything to explain that.
Is it because the character's really good at haggling or finding a bargain? That seems like it would apply pretty equally to anything. Is it because the character can get a cheap knockoff version of something to work as well as a proper one, so effectively they spend less money on buying one? That might make sense to limit to standard "functional" items and not raw materials.
Sorry wagnarokkr, I didn't mean that, that was just an example of items where I think the feat applies. In general, I think it applies to already crafted items, though I'm not going to argue the opposite.
This is my gut feeling as well, they want you to buy objects and raw materials are more of a nebulous concept than an actual item. You don't buy wood; you expend gold to fuel crafting.
Is it because the character's really good at haggling or finding a bargain? That seems like it would apply pretty equally to anything. Is it because the character can get a cheap knockoff version of something to work as well as a proper one, so effectively they spend less money on buying one? That might make sense to limit to standard "functional" items and not raw materials.
This is one of the issues I have with it. Artisans are better at crafting because they are better at clipping coupons? Narratively, it is off.
I always figured the conceit was that the character "knows people" in the trade community. They do each other favors and whatnot.
I guess it could be that a crafter would be better able to haggle for crafted items because they know better what quality actually is and are able to nitpick the item to the point of getting a discount... but that's less convincing to me because why would an armorsmith know that a jug is made of poor quality.
I don't see why not, and it is probably the most thematically appropriate use of it effectively needing 20% less materials to make the item due to expert crafting skills. That being said maybe not for crafting magical items as some of the materials may be inherently magical. Which while I hate to harp on this feat more, a when crafting non magical items the materials cost .25 instead of the usual .5 the final items cost would fit the feat so much better.
Conceptually, I think “raw materials” when purchased from a vendor would fall under Trade Goods in Chapter 7 of the DMG. It stands to reason that wood is such a common item you could just get it from trees as long as they are nearby. Most of the other things are there.
Magic Item raw materials require the Arcane skill and RAW you simply have a 75% chance of acquiring them in the city and 25% in the country, with a 7 day cool down if they are not. These raw materials should work similarly to Trade Goods conceptually.
To me these are items. However the nature of Arcane magic is such that all of the obscure ingredients required would be too tedious to catalog and list, so they didn’t bother with this. I am glad we get to skip that nonsense.
Literally no one reading Crafter’s discount would exclude items that could be purchased. It isn’t a service, it must exist.
CRAFTER IS THE MOST POWERFUL ORIGIN FEAT IN THE GAME FOR ADVANCED PLAYERS IN A LONG TERM CAMPAIGN.
Period, end of story. Anyone with Arcane skill can craft magic items. Elves can do it when the party sleeps. Fabricate Wizards can break the local game economy.
Conceptually, I think “raw materials” when purchased from a vendor would fall under Trade Goods in Chapter 7 of the DMG. It stands to reason that wood is such a common item you could just get it from trees as long as they are nearby. Most of the other things are there.
Period, end of story. Anyone with Arcane skill can craft magic items. Elves can do it when the party sleeps. Fabricate Wizards can break the local game economy.
Conceptually, I think “raw materials” when purchased from a vendor would fall under Trade Goods in Chapter 7 of the DMG. It stands to reason that wood is such a common item you could just get it from trees as long as they are nearby. Most of the other things are there.
Period, end of story. Anyone with Arcane skill can craft magic items. Elves can do it when the party sleeps. Fabricate Wizards can break the local game economy.
No, they don't.
To clarify, I’m not saying the “trade” part applies but the cash value of the items in the table. This list provides the cash value of raw goods if they are not traded without cash, and provides a reference for what would be purchased to make items.
This demonstrates that raw materials are items with defined values RAW.
I'm gonna also point out that the feat is called "crafter" so it logically would apply to raw materials required for crafting.
Its not hard to make this connection.
As I stated already, the “trade goods” section proves that these items exist, have a cash value, and could be purchased separately or found and then bartered with.
The magical “raw materials” available in a city at 75% chance is probably left undefined because it is similar to things in a component bag that would be consumed. You might might even House Rule that that these are gems that are consumed by magical crafting using the arcane skill. A legendary item needs to consume 100,000 GP worth of diamonds for instance.
I actually love the idea of it being precious gems that are consumed in the crafting process.
To clarify, I’m not saying the “trade” part applies but the cash value of the items in the table. This list provides the cash value of raw goods if they are not traded without cash, and provides a reference for what would be purchased to make items.
This demonstrates that raw materials are items with defined values RAW.
No, those are not raw materials when crafting. When you buy raw materials, you are paying gold for an abstracted collection of materials. If you have a collection of various trade goods, you cannot substitute them. Your DM may allow it, but they are not the same thing.
Because raw materials are abstracted, you might not ever be purchasing an item and the discount might not apply. It might, but it might not.
I'm gonna also point out that the feat is called "crafter" so it logically would apply to raw materials required for crafting.
Its not hard to make this connection.
That is far from definitive and suggests RAI at best. What matters first is the wording of the feature and the interaction with the other rules. If it was representing crafting ability, it would only apply to raw materials and nothing else.
The magical “raw materials” available in a city at 75% chance is probably left undefined because it is similar to things in a component bag that would be consumed.
If the raw materials are magical, the Discount definitely does not apply.
RAW or RAI, are raw materials items that are affected by the Crafter Discount? Are they ever an item or are they just a mechanism by which you expend gold to craft?
Does this only apply to final item purchases or does it apply to paying for raw materials as well?
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
I don't think there's a solid RAW answer to this one, but in practice I'd allow that discount to be applied to anything non-magical, including raw materials. It seems simpler.
pronouns: he/she/they
In your take, would it apply to the raw materials to craft magic items?
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Sure, I don't think those are generally considered "magical" prior to being turned into a magic item.
pronouns: he/she/they
I think (or I want to believe) the intent is to apply discounts to nonmagical items from, for example, Chapter 6: Equipment, but...
I haven't played a character with this feat, but I feel like I'd be real annoyed if I tried to buy, like, a chair or something equally basic and mundane, but the DM told me I didn't get the 20% discount because it's not on the equipment list.
pronouns: he/she/they
Sorry wagnarokkr, I didn't mean that, that was just an example of items where I think the feat applies. In general, I think it applies to already crafted items, though I'm not going to argue the opposite.
Ah, I see what you're saying. I suppose D&D could use a more rigorous definition of "item" for situations like this.
pronouns: he/she/they
Sorry for the misunderstanding. Frankly, your POV is perfectly valid. I just wanted to share my gut feeling.
It's very open-ended as written the discount is on any nonmagical item so i'd wouldn't see why it would not include raw material since crafters rely on this a lot.
In practice it may end up being a function of what, if any, narrative reason for the discount existing the DM comes up with. The feat doesn't really do anything to explain that.
Is it because the character's really good at haggling or finding a bargain? That seems like it would apply pretty equally to anything. Is it because the character can get a cheap knockoff version of something to work as well as a proper one, so effectively they spend less money on buying one? That might make sense to limit to standard "functional" items and not raw materials.
pronouns: he/she/they
This is my gut feeling as well, they want you to buy objects and raw materials are more of a nebulous concept than an actual item. You don't buy wood; you expend gold to fuel crafting.
This is one of the issues I have with it. Artisans are better at crafting because they are better at clipping coupons? Narratively, it is off.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
I always figured the conceit was that the character "knows people" in the trade community. They do each other favors and whatnot.
I guess it could be that a crafter would be better able to haggle for crafted items because they know better what quality actually is and are able to nitpick the item to the point of getting a discount... but that's less convincing to me because why would an armorsmith know that a jug is made of poor quality.
What is a jug, if not armor for your wine?
pronouns: he/she/they
I don't see why not, and it is probably the most thematically appropriate use of it effectively needing 20% less materials to make the item due to expert crafting skills. That being said maybe not for crafting magical items as some of the materials may be inherently magical. Which while I hate to harp on this feat more, a when crafting non magical items the materials cost .25 instead of the usual .5 the final items cost would fit the feat so much better.
Conceptually, I think “raw materials” when purchased from a vendor would fall under Trade Goods in Chapter 7 of the DMG. It stands to reason that wood is such a common item you could just get it from trees as long as they are nearby. Most of the other things are there.
Magic Item raw materials require the Arcane skill and RAW you simply have a 75% chance of acquiring them in the city and 25% in the country, with a 7 day cool down if they are not. These raw materials should work similarly to Trade Goods conceptually.
To me these are items. However the nature of Arcane magic is such that all of the obscure ingredients required would be too tedious to catalog and list, so they didn’t bother with this. I am glad we get to skip that nonsense.
Literally no one reading Crafter’s discount would exclude items that could be purchased. It isn’t a service, it must exist.
CRAFTER IS THE MOST POWERFUL ORIGIN FEAT IN THE GAME FOR ADVANCED PLAYERS IN A LONG TERM CAMPAIGN.
Period, end of story. Anyone with Arcane skill can craft magic items. Elves can do it when the party sleeps. Fabricate Wizards can break the local game economy.
That would invalidate the discount.
No, they don't.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
To clarify, I’m not saying the “trade” part applies but the cash value of the items in the table. This list provides the cash value of raw goods if they are not traded without cash, and provides a reference for what would be purchased to make items.
This demonstrates that raw materials are items with defined values RAW.
lol this did not post right on my phone
I'm gonna also point out that the feat is called "crafter" so it logically would apply to raw materials required for crafting.
Its not hard to make this connection.
As I stated already, the “trade goods” section proves that these items exist, have a cash value, and could be purchased separately or found and then bartered with.
The magical “raw materials” available in a city at 75% chance is probably left undefined because it is similar to things in a component bag that would be consumed. You might might even House Rule that that these are gems that are consumed by magical crafting using the arcane skill. A legendary item needs to consume 100,000 GP worth of diamonds for instance.
I actually love the idea of it being precious gems that are consumed in the crafting process.
No, those are not raw materials when crafting. When you buy raw materials, you are paying gold for an abstracted collection of materials. If you have a collection of various trade goods, you cannot substitute them. Your DM may allow it, but they are not the same thing.
Because raw materials are abstracted, you might not ever be purchasing an item and the discount might not apply. It might, but it might not.
That is far from definitive and suggests RAI at best. What matters first is the wording of the feature and the interaction with the other rules. If it was representing crafting ability, it would only apply to raw materials and nothing else.
If the raw materials are magical, the Discount definitely does not apply.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.