I have to admit, the more I play, the more I would like to eventually take on the DM role but I sometimes feel like I know so little. Perhaps it is because I played the 1980's version and then only 5e. So my question is, I can not seem to find a more comprehensive list of ability contests. In other words, if someone stealths, it is compared to another characters perception or passive perception right? What about the rest? I get grappling checks but what about others? Is Deception vs Insight correct? If a Performance check is used, is it simply a DC that a DM might have in mind? Some abilities seem to be used and compared to a DC rating. Like Nature, Survival etc...while others are used for contests. I am hoping there is a list somewhere with most of the possible contests or uses. I am once again failing my Investigation roll...or straight up Intelligence. Thank you. (Filcat. You have been more than patient with me, and super helpful. Feel free to let someone else take this one, unless you really don't mind, lol.)
I am afraid you are going to have a really difficult time compiling such a list, as it will only be limited by your imagination. So unless you are very narrow-minded and lack imagination, such a list will be inexhaustive. It all depends on the context of the situation in which the DM calls for such checks. E.g:
A Performance check can often be called for as an alternate to a Deception check when the deception is related to an act. Likewise, if the context is that someone is feigning death, the Insight check used to contest the Deception/Performance check can perhaps be replaced by a Medicine check.
This could instead be a Perception check if the person feigning death has tried to obscure something that would give the act away.
If a person uses a staged rock slide/fallen tree to fake his death, perhaps the DM would call for the opposition to roll a Nature check or Investigation check to see if he has an idea that this is an unnatural occurrence.
In the same way the feigned death could have been staged as a divine punishment from a specific god, in which case it'd make sense to have the opposition roll a Religion check to see whether or not the act is convincing.
Or a History check if the feigned death has to do with framing a historical figure or group whom the opposition may have studied in depth.
As a DM you set the rules. The various checks can also be combined so the players have to roll multiple dice. Whatever you believe is reasonable, fun, and adds to the story, is something you can choose to include in the game you run.
So while I can't provide you with a comprehensive list of options, I hope that the short example above can inspire some alternative ways to include various abilities in different types of contests :)
BeyondMisty is right. There are very few limits to what opposed checks you could come up with in the course of an adventure. My suggestion would be to familiarize yourself as well as possible with each skill and then you can decide on the fly which two skills are most relevant for a given situation.
The good news is that as DM, it’s up to you. As long as you are in the neighborhood, people probably won’t raise an eyebrow.
Thank you for the response. I guess that is what I am looking for. Perhaps a few examples for each. I just felt that the rules seemed a little too vague but I understand what you are both saying. I have wondered about this for a while as in my limited experience, I am trying to figure out why a player would pick a skill like performance over stealth. It makes sense that a Bard would want performance but honestly, until you gave an example to me I wondered how often does a Bard get the chance to use it? BeyondMisty, your example for Performance was great. Exactly the type of information I needed to see why Performance would be chosen. I guess it comes down to the fact that my DM uses only a few of them often and most almost never.
Performance is really more of a skill you would have to ask to use, rather than the DM inviting you to roll for it. Proficiency in performance should cover any sort of acting, dancing, singing or spoken performance (spinning a tale, poetry), and it could be used to represent general creativity in other artistic endeavors. Even without an instrument you might be able to make a performance attempt in any casual or formal gathering situation. In a world without tv someone sharing an exciting tale around the fireplace, or reciting the latest popular poetry at a dinner party could be the most popular kid in town. A bard with an instrument handy clearly has more opportunities, but anyone with performance proficiency would still have a great way to break the ice with those mercenaries or stuffy academics. Any such attempt would be very welcome at my tables for the roll playing opportunities involved.
Performance has two components you could use: How many will find it interesting and how well it is done. Beyond Misty has already described some opposed checks for that (e.g. how historical accurate is your tale => History; Is the hidden lie in the story discovered => Deception; Is is completely fabricated nonsense and not a true story=> Insight ). You are the DM, you set up the opposed check. The other variant is the "how many?": it might be easy to entertain the kids on the market with your juggling, but what of you show should get the attention of all the people around you, including the town's guard? If you roll a twelve, the kids will like, but the guards will stay at their post.
While performance is something you will probably run into more often during roleplay encounters, that is not always the case. Since you bring up performance, I'll mention that my campaign has a performance-based magical weapon--Riley Fuzzle's Trick Shot Longbow.
I find asking what the intent of the player is will help narrow down the applicable ability and then the skill.
Player wants to feign death, Charisma or Wisdom could both be used for that. to lure a person in = Charisma/Deception. To make a bear not eat them = Wisdom/Survival.
Player wants to earn money working the local tavern, any ability check could work here depending on how they go about it: Arm Wrestling = Strength/Athletics Pickpocket = Dexterity/Sleight of Hand Trivia night = Intelligence/History-Religion Play music = Charisma/Performance
Then we have the fun conversation in a neighboring thread: Persuasion vs Intimidation how does one figure out the social nuances between Persuasion, Intimidation, and Deception? Especially since they all share the same ability score!
I have to admit, the more I play, the more I would like to eventually take on the DM role but I sometimes feel like I know so little. Perhaps it is because I played the 1980's version and then only 5e. So my question is, I can not seem to find a more comprehensive list of ability contests. In other words, if someone stealths, it is compared to another characters perception or passive perception right? What about the rest? I get grappling checks but what about others? Is Deception vs Insight correct? If a Performance check is used, is it simply a DC that a DM might have in mind? Some abilities seem to be used and compared to a DC rating. Like Nature, Survival etc...while others are used for contests. I am hoping there is a list somewhere with most of the possible contests or uses. I am once again failing my Investigation roll...or straight up Intelligence. Thank you. (Filcat. You have been more than patient with me, and super helpful. Feel free to let someone else take this one, unless you really don't mind, lol.)
I am afraid you are going to have a really difficult time compiling such a list, as it will only be limited by your imagination. So unless you are very narrow-minded and lack imagination, such a list will be inexhaustive. It all depends on the context of the situation in which the DM calls for such checks.
E.g:
As a DM you set the rules. The various checks can also be combined so the players have to roll multiple dice. Whatever you believe is reasonable, fun, and adds to the story, is something you can choose to include in the game you run.
So while I can't provide you with a comprehensive list of options, I hope that the short example above can inspire some alternative ways to include various abilities in different types of contests :)
BeyondMisty is right. There are very few limits to what opposed checks you could come up with in the course of an adventure. My suggestion would be to familiarize yourself as well as possible with each skill and then you can decide on the fly which two skills are most relevant for a given situation.
The good news is that as DM, it’s up to you. As long as you are in the neighborhood, people probably won’t raise an eyebrow.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Thank you for the response. I guess that is what I am looking for. Perhaps a few examples for each. I just felt that the rules seemed a little too vague but I understand what you are both saying. I have wondered about this for a while as in my limited experience, I am trying to figure out why a player would pick a skill like performance over stealth. It makes sense that a Bard would want performance but honestly, until you gave an example to me I wondered how often does a Bard get the chance to use it? BeyondMisty, your example for Performance was great. Exactly the type of information I needed to see why Performance would be chosen. I guess it comes down to the fact that my DM uses only a few of them often and most almost never.
Performance is really more of a skill you would have to ask to use, rather than the DM inviting you to roll for it. Proficiency in performance should cover any sort of acting, dancing, singing or spoken performance (spinning a tale, poetry), and it could be used to represent general creativity in other artistic endeavors. Even without an instrument you might be able to make a performance attempt in any casual or formal gathering situation. In a world without tv someone sharing an exciting tale around the fireplace, or reciting the latest popular poetry at a dinner party could be the most popular kid in town. A bard with an instrument handy clearly has more opportunities, but anyone with performance proficiency would still have a great way to break the ice with those mercenaries or stuffy academics. Any such attempt would be very welcome at my tables for the roll playing opportunities involved.
Performance has two components you could use: How many will find it interesting and how well it is done. Beyond Misty has already described some opposed checks for that (e.g. how historical accurate is your tale => History; Is the hidden lie in the story discovered => Deception; Is is completely fabricated nonsense and not a true story=> Insight ). You are the DM, you set up the opposed check.
The other variant is the "how many?": it might be easy to entertain the kids on the market with your juggling, but what of you show should get the attention of all the people around you, including the town's guard? If you roll a twelve, the kids will like, but the guards will stay at their post.
While performance is something you will probably run into more often during roleplay encounters, that is not always the case. Since you bring up performance, I'll mention that my campaign has a performance-based magical weapon--Riley Fuzzle's Trick Shot Longbow.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I find asking what the intent of the player is will help narrow down the applicable ability and then the skill.
Player wants to feign death, Charisma or Wisdom could both be used for that.
to lure a person in = Charisma/Deception.
To make a bear not eat them = Wisdom/Survival.
Player wants to earn money working the local tavern, any ability check could work here depending on how they go about it:
Arm Wrestling = Strength/Athletics
Pickpocket = Dexterity/Sleight of Hand
Trivia night = Intelligence/History-Religion
Play music = Charisma/Performance
Then we have the fun conversation in a neighboring thread:
Persuasion vs Intimidation how does one figure out the social nuances between Persuasion, Intimidation, and Deception? Especially since they all share the same ability score!