Wish states it can grant immunity “to a lich’s life drain attack”.
Questions: The attack has no uppercase so it doesn’t seem to refer to a specific stat block action, but then what is it referring to? Paralyzing Touch? Disrupt Life?
In addition, the Demilich stat block DOES have upper case action “Life Drain”, but then does this mean the Wish description is errantly referring to a Lich instead of a Demilich?
A player is arguing for immunity from dragon breath because of the line about the lich attack. I want to rule dragon breath is not a spell or magical effect, but he counters with the lich wording.
Well, it's a wish, he wished to be immune to dragon breath. Whether it's magical doesn't seem to play into the whole process, it's a wish.
Wish is not limited to the description given in the PHB, similar to how Command is not limited to only the list given by the PHB.
I see no problem with saying "Yup, you wished to be immune, you are immune". I also see no problem with giving him a choice of what type of Dragon Breath to be immune to if you were so inclined to limit the scope of the Wish.
I think the important part of the spell is this paragraph:
You might be able to achieve something beyond the scope of the above examples. State your wish to the DM as precisely as possible. The DM has great latitude in ruling what occurs in such an instance, the greater the wish, the greater the likelihood that something goes wrong. This spell might simply fail, the effect you desire might only be partly achieved, or you might suffer some unforeseen consequence as a result of how you worded the wish. For example, wishing that a villain were dead might propel you forward in time to a period when that villain is no longer alive, effectively removing you from the game. Similarly, wishing for a legendary magic item or artifact might instantly transport you to the presence of the item's current owner.
So maybe he becomes immune to Dragon Breath, but only the actual exhalation of natural breathing. Maybe he becomes ethereal, completely incapable of being touched by the Breath weapon attacks of a dragon. Maybe he simply becomes immune and now can fight dragons easier.
Well, it's a wish, he wished to be immune to dragon breath. Whether magical doesn't seem to play into the whole process, it's a wish.
Wish is not limited to the description given in the PHB, similar to how Command is not limited to only the list given by the PHB.
I see no problem with saying "Yup, you wished to be immune, you are immue". I also see no problem with giving him a choice of what type of Dragon Breath to be immune to if you were so inclined to limit the scope of the Wish.
I think the important part of the spell is this paragraph:
You might be able to achieve something beyond the scope of the above examples. State your wish to the DM as precisely as possible. The DM has great latitude in ruling what occurs in such an instance, the greater the wish, the greater the likelihood that something goes wrong. This spell might simply fail, the effect you desire might only be partly achieved, or you might suffer some unforeseen consequence as a result of how you worded the wish. For example, wishing that a villain were dead might propel you forward in time to a period when that villain is no longer alive, effectively removing you from the game. Similarly, wishing for a legendary magic item or artifact might instantly transport you to the presence of the item's current owner.
So maybe he becomes immune to Dragon Breath, but only the actual exhalation of natural breathing. Maybe he becomes ethereal, completely incapable of being touched by the Breath weapon attacks of a dragon. Maybe he simply becomes immune and now can fight dragons easier.
I understand that however the player is attempting to avoid DM adjudication by adhering to the listed examples in the spell description. Hence why I asked what a lich drain attack is. That’s my actual question
In addition, the Demilich stat block DOES have upper case action “Life Drain”, but then does this mean the Wish description is errantly referring to a Lich instead of a Demilich?
It's probably a mistake, yes. They probably meant to use specters as an example, but the lich's paralyzing touch or disrupt life are valid too. Don't worry about it; the point is, they can wish for immunity against a specific spell or magical effect. The example used doesn't really matter. Don't get caught up on the letter case either; it's normal for references to spells, classes, monsters, etc. to be in lowercase (though they're usually italicized).
A player is arguing for immunity from dragon breath because of the line about the lich attack. I want to rule dragon breath is not a spell or magical effect, but he counters with the lich wording.
Unlike a specter's life drain, the breath weapons that typical adult/ancient dragons from the Monster Manual have aren't magical effects. Even if you put up an antimagic field, a red dragon can breathe fire on you! See "Is the breath weapon of a dragon magical?" in Sage Advice Compendium for an official ruling on what counts as magical for rules purposes.
That said, wishing for immunity to red dragon fire breath for 8 hours isn't much stronger than asking for immunity to counterspell or dispel magic for 8 hours. I'd allow it.
Well, it's a wish, he wished to be immune to dragon breath. Whether it's magical doesn't seem to play into the whole process, it's a wish.
The wish outlines several options that don't involve reproducing a spell but that can be produced reliably without having to go through the DM, so it kinda matters if it's magical or not. It's true that wish can potentially grant any kind of request, but ad hoc requests have to go through the DM while taking one of the options listed in the spell should just work.
I think without actually getting some official statement by WoTC about the actual wording you reference, I would just go with your gut and your best interpretation of the "rules as intended". It seems the intent here with Wish in using that specific wording about a "lich's life drain", for me, seems to extend to more broadly being able to immune one's self from a creatures spell/action. You're going to give yourself a headache if you keep focusing on if they meant "lich" or "demilich". I understand you and your player want to follow the "rules as written" to the best your abilities, but sometimes, especially with something like a wish, the options and interpretations really are endless.
I would echo DMThac0's point in allowing it to happen, but the ultimate outcome of how the player becomes immune is up to you. From a psychological perspective, if you and your player have already discussed this, or even argued about it, I would simply just let him have it as he intends the wish to happen. If you mess with him and put him permanently in the ethereal plane to be immune, after you guys have already gone back and forth on the subject, he may interpret you doing that as punishment for challenging you, and that is something that if I were a player, would seriously damper my mood. Players like to win and we as DMs should help encourage that most of the time.
Ultimately, I think this is probably something very little player could actually do in this case with a "Wish" spell. I mean, why are they wishing for this and not just like, "I wish the next time the dragon is hit by an attack he dies forever". Unless you're just like fighting dragons all day every day, being immune to just a dragon's breath seems pretty futile. The breath is nasty and all, but there are already a ton of ways to avoid the breath, and the dragon also has like 30 other ways to kill you besides it's breath.
Hope this offered the perspective you are looking for.
Also, this player is willing to pay the severe cost of an unorthodox wish to gain immunity to dragon breath for 8 hours. That is: 1/3 chance that they can never cast Wish again, 1d10 unblockable damage per spell level cast until the next long rest (including the entire period of this dragon immunity), Str set to 3 for 2-8 days. I feel that's a deal you should let them make unless you've got a very good reason not to.
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Wish states it can grant immunity “to a lich’s life drain attack”.
Questions: The attack has no uppercase so it doesn’t seem to refer to a specific stat block action, but then what is it referring to? Paralyzing Touch? Disrupt Life?
In addition, the Demilich stat block DOES have upper case action “Life Drain”, but then does this mean the Wish description is errantly referring to a Lich instead of a Demilich?
A player is arguing for immunity from dragon breath because of the line about the lich attack. I want to rule dragon breath is not a spell or magical effect, but he counters with the lich wording.
Thoughts? Thanks!
Toremar, Paladin 6 / Dez, Gnome Wizard 5 / Perios, Elf Wizard 10 / Skadr, Dwarf Pugilist 7
Well, it's a wish, he wished to be immune to dragon breath. Whether it's magical doesn't seem to play into the whole process, it's a wish.
Wish is not limited to the description given in the PHB, similar to how Command is not limited to only the list given by the PHB.
I see no problem with saying "Yup, you wished to be immune, you are immune". I also see no problem with giving him a choice of what type of Dragon Breath to be immune to if you were so inclined to limit the scope of the Wish.
I think the important part of the spell is this paragraph:
So maybe he becomes immune to Dragon Breath, but only the actual exhalation of natural breathing. Maybe he becomes ethereal, completely incapable of being touched by the Breath weapon attacks of a dragon. Maybe he simply becomes immune and now can fight dragons easier.
I understand that however the player is attempting to avoid DM adjudication by adhering to the listed examples in the spell description. Hence why I asked what a lich drain attack is. That’s my actual question
Toremar, Paladin 6 / Dez, Gnome Wizard 5 / Perios, Elf Wizard 10 / Skadr, Dwarf Pugilist 7
It's probably a mistake, yes. They probably meant to use specters as an example, but the lich's paralyzing touch or disrupt life are valid too. Don't worry about it; the point is, they can wish for immunity against a specific spell or magical effect. The example used doesn't really matter. Don't get caught up on the letter case either; it's normal for references to spells, classes, monsters, etc. to be in lowercase (though they're usually italicized).
Unlike a specter's life drain, the breath weapons that typical adult/ancient dragons from the Monster Manual have aren't magical effects. Even if you put up an antimagic field, a red dragon can breathe fire on you! See "Is the breath weapon of a dragon magical?" in Sage Advice Compendium for an official ruling on what counts as magical for rules purposes.
That said, wishing for immunity to red dragon fire breath for 8 hours isn't much stronger than asking for immunity to counterspell or dispel magic for 8 hours. I'd allow it.
The wish outlines several options that don't involve reproducing a spell but that can be produced reliably without having to go through the DM, so it kinda matters if it's magical or not. It's true that wish can potentially grant any kind of request, but ad hoc requests have to go through the DM while taking one of the options listed in the spell should just work.
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I think without actually getting some official statement by WoTC about the actual wording you reference, I would just go with your gut and your best interpretation of the "rules as intended". It seems the intent here with Wish in using that specific wording about a "lich's life drain", for me, seems to extend to more broadly being able to immune one's self from a creatures spell/action. You're going to give yourself a headache if you keep focusing on if they meant "lich" or "demilich". I understand you and your player want to follow the "rules as written" to the best your abilities, but sometimes, especially with something like a wish, the options and interpretations really are endless.
I would echo DMThac0's point in allowing it to happen, but the ultimate outcome of how the player becomes immune is up to you. From a psychological perspective, if you and your player have already discussed this, or even argued about it, I would simply just let him have it as he intends the wish to happen. If you mess with him and put him permanently in the ethereal plane to be immune, after you guys have already gone back and forth on the subject, he may interpret you doing that as punishment for challenging you, and that is something that if I were a player, would seriously damper my mood. Players like to win and we as DMs should help encourage that most of the time.
Ultimately, I think this is probably something very little player could actually do in this case with a "Wish" spell. I mean, why are they wishing for this and not just like, "I wish the next time the dragon is hit by an attack he dies forever". Unless you're just like fighting dragons all day every day, being immune to just a dragon's breath seems pretty futile. The breath is nasty and all, but there are already a ton of ways to avoid the breath, and the dragon also has like 30 other ways to kill you besides it's breath.
Hope this offered the perspective you are looking for.
Also, this player is willing to pay the severe cost of an unorthodox wish to gain immunity to dragon breath for 8 hours. That is: 1/3 chance that they can never cast Wish again, 1d10 unblockable damage per spell level cast until the next long rest (including the entire period of this dragon immunity), Str set to 3 for 2-8 days. I feel that's a deal you should let them make unless you've got a very good reason not to.