March 11, 2016 Sage Advice: Feats are retained as a class feature. (Note that for Tough specifically, Crawford has said "intent is no..." but that's a RAI ruling which I think over-complicates the general RAW rule, so take it or leave it).
August 3, 2017 Sage Advice: ASI's or +1's from feats are not applied on top of the beast's form, since those physical stats are "replaced" by the Beast's statblock entry. By extension, one should expect that class features that provide +Stats (barbarian capstone, for a Shapechanged Barb 20) probably won't apply on top of the form's base attributes either?
November 23, 2016 Sage Advice: Racial features are retained, unless physiology of beast prohibits them (such as lacking scales, wings, etc).
December 3, 2016 Sage Advice: Sunlight sensitivity apparently is "more metaphysical than biological" (really Crawford?)
2) Wildshaped druids assume the "statistics" of the beast, with the exception of retaining alignment, personality, mental stats, and the skills and features listed above.
"Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast, but you retain your alignment, personality, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. You also retain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature."
"Statistics" are defined in the Monster Manual introduction as including size, type, tags, alignment, armor class, hit points, speed, ability scores, saving throws, skills, vulnerabilities/resistances/immunities, senses, languages, challenge, traits, actions, and equipment.
For skills and saves at least, if a skill or a save appears in the monster's statblock, that means that it is proficient with that skill or save. Presumably, the same applies to its actions/attack modes, although that is not spelled out explicitly (but the math backs it up).
Generally, all of these statistics can still be modified by class, race, or feat features if applicable.
January 14, 2015 Sage Advice: For instance, PC can use a different armor calculation formula than the Beast's Natural Armor + Dex, if desired and available.
3) Generally, attacks, skills, and saves are calculated the same way they are for everything else in the game: attribute modifier + proficiency bonus + any other misc. non duplicative bonus
Hard to quote the absence of language, but nothing in wildshape says that it doesn't work the normal way. See PHB Chapter 7 if you need a refresher on how ability checks, saving throws, or attack rolls work in D&D 5E.
January 23, 2015 Sage Advice: In 2015, Crawford gave a weak opinion on RAI suggesting that there's a special unwritten rule in play that would prevent the druid from using his proficiency bonus instead of the beast's for skills/saves/attacks that the druid didn't already have proficiency in before wildshaping. This is not RAW, and is pretty directly contradicted by his later May 06, 2018 ruling on proficiency bonuses being retained as a class feature. You can't have it both way, and I'll take RAW over an outdated and contradictory RAI any day of the week!
4) ONE AND ONLY EXCEPTION: IF druid shares a proficiency with the beast form they've shaped into, AND IF calculating a skill/save/attack using the normal rules results in a lower number than shown in the creature's stat block, THEN the druid will use the higher number shown in the statblock
"If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus in its stat block is higher than yours, use the creature’s bonus instead of yours."
WHAT THIS DOES NOT SAY: "something something you can use the druid's proficiency bonus instead of the beast's only if they share a proficiency something"
This is useful if the beast has a miscellaneous bonus in their statblock which can't be attributed to their CR-dependent Proficiency Bonus + Attribute Bonus. Examples include Clawfoot Raptor's misc. extra +2 bonus to perception, creatures like Giant Spider that use Dex to attack without explicitly saying so, or any other time that a creature has some sort of bonus/alternate calculation going on under the hood which isn't explicitly explained in the statblock.
Proficiency bonus isn't a class feature and he doesn't talk about class features in that tweet. If the DM decides any part of Wild Shape allows you to retain your proficiency bonus, it's the part that talks about keeping your skill and save proficiencies.
December 3, 2016 Sage Advice: Sunlight sensitivity apparently is "more metaphysical than biological" (really Crawford?)
A lycanthrope doesn't have a biological basis for its immunity to nonsilvered weapons so it's not outrageous that at least some creatures have a non-biological reason for their weakness to sunlight. Vampires are a clear example. Even in the case of humanoids like the Drow, where it's outright said to be a result of being underground for so long, a biological explanation doesn't fully add up. For one thing they can't seem to circumvent the problem with sunglasses and for another MToF claims "they can’t bear the touch of [sunlight] on their flesh" even though they're dark-skinned.
For skills and saves at least, if a skill or a save appears in the monster's statblock, that means that it is proficient with that skill or save. Presumably, the same applies to its actions/attack modes, although that is not spelled out explicitly (but the math backs it up).
Most of the time this is true, but not always. There's monsters that don't add their proficiency bonus to an attack, like the ghoul. I don't think this affect any beasts, but it also doesn't matter since the druid's proficiency bonus is irrelevant for attacks.
January 23, 2015 Sage Advice: In 2015, Crawford gave a weak opinion on RAI suggesting that there's a special unwritten rule in play that would prevent the druid from using his proficiency bonus instead of the beast's for skills/saves/attacks that the druid didn't already have proficiency in before wildshaping. This is not RAW, and is pretty directly contradicted by his later May 06, 2018 ruling on proficiency bonuses being retained as a class feature. You can't have it both way, and I'll take RAW over an outdated and contradictory RAI any day of the week!
That first tweet makes sense when you remember Wild Shape only lets you carry over your skill and save proficiencies.
Proficiency bonus isn't a class feature and he doesn't talk about class features in that tweet. If the DM decides any part of Wild Shape allows you to retain your proficiency bonus, it's the part that talks about keeping your skill and save proficiencies.
There is no "if the DM decides to allow it" at play, it is a 100% settled question that wildshaped druids keep their proficiency bonus. This isn't a thread about a rule clarification for something murky, it is a PSA because many players incorrectly use beast statblocks from the MM as a stand-in for calculating their own wildshape's custom statblock, which is A) not RAW and B) almost always sub-optimal from level 5 onwards. Just because it's a common error doesn't make it a supportable rule interpretation in the face of contradictory RAW text in the Players Handbook.
The numerical value of your proficiency bonus is a class feature that is separate and distinct from the list of proficiencies to which it is applied, and is carried over into wildshape as a "feature" that has been provided by class or "other source." Look at your character sheet, does it say "Proficiency Bonus: +X in skills a, b, c..."? No. It is its own feature, separate and apart from the individual skills, saves, and attacks to which it is applied. But for the purpose of this topic, it's a distinction without a difference since druids retain their proficiencies while wildshaped. So, I guess knock yourself out and call your proficiency bonus a proficiency, if that's what really floats your boat?
January 22, 2015 Sage Advice (12:18 am tweet): A wildshaped druid keeps their druid proficiency bonus, and uses it to calculate the beast's attack bonus (unless the beast's is higher than the wildshaped druid would calculate). Later that day he follows up with a "the intent is..." RAI opinion, which as I've already explained, is inconsistent with many other (later) rulings. If the intent was that druids proficiency bonuses should not apply to attacks/saves/skills that the druid is not already proficient in, there was ample space and opportunity within the wildshape feature entry to say so, it is not a short feature where anything was left unsaid. But it doesn't say that, nor does it even come close to implying it. Even Crawford can't RAI rules wholecloth without pointing to rules text to hang it on.
April 16, 2018 Sage Advice: When asked whether a proficiency bonus is a class feature which is retained while Shapechanged, Crawford responds that proficiency bonus is retained while shapechanged/wildshaped. He's essentially saying "yes," but if you want to split hairs and say "yes but its not a class feature its something else," fine, a distinction without a difference.
In Chapter 7 we are told that Proficiency Bonus is "determined by level." Again, whether you call the benefits provided by your levels a feature of your "class" or of an "other source" is a distinction without a difference, either way it's a feature you have which wildshape/shapechange lets you keep.
February 4, 2018 Sage Advice: You don't add both druid and beast's proficiency bonus to a beast attack. But the answer to "which one do you use?" is found in "the first bullet of the class feature." That bullet reads: "Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast, but you retain your alignment, personality, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. You also retain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature. If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus in its stat block is higher than yours, use the creature’s bonus instead of yours. If the creature has any legendary or lair actions, you can’t use them." Again, the fact that this paragraph doesn't say "use the creature's proficiency bonus for its attacks instead of yours always" is all you need to see in order to point yourself to Chapter 7 or Chapter 9 to learn that attacks with weapons you are proficient with (which includes the natural weapons of a beast, which you gain proficiency in when you wildshape into said beast) are calculated by adding Proficiency Bonus (druid's) + Strength for melee/Dexterity for range (Beast's).
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A lycanthrope doesn't have a biological basis for its immunity to nonsilvered weapons so it's not outrageous that at least some creatures have a non-biological reason for their weakness to sunlight. Vampires are a clear example. Even in the case of humanoids like the Drow, where it's outright said to be a result of being underground for so long, a biological explanation doesn't fully add up. For one thing they can't seem to circumvent the problem with sunglasses and for another MToF claims "they can’t bear the touch of [sunlight] on their flesh" even though they're dark-skinned.
As for the drow sunlight sensitivity thing... yeah I get it, drow are evil and cursed blah blah. I guess I should have spelled out where I was going with that particular quote when I first decided to include it in this list: while November 23, 2016 Sage Advice: provided that a wildshaped lizardman loses his scales, the December 3, 2016 drow ruling provides that sunlight sensitivity carries over to anything with sight as a sense, even if that sight isn't being provided by the eyes of a biological drow. So, in general I would say that the rule Crawford is drawing suggests a DM should "be generous" when considering whether a racial feature has been rendered impossible by the beast's physiology: movement features should persist for anything that has a move speed, weapon proficiency features should persist for anything that has hands capable of grasping weapons, hold breath features persist for anything that still has lungs, etc.
February 4, 2018 Sage Advice: You don't add both druid and beast's proficiency bonus to a beast attack. But the answer to "which one do you use?" is found in "the first bullet of the class feature." That bullet reads: "Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast, but you retain your alignment, personality, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. You also retain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature. If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus in its stat block is higher than yours, use the creature’s bonus instead of yours. If the creature has any legendary or lair actions, you can’t use them." Again, the fact that this paragraph doesn't say "use the creature's proficiency bonus for its attacks instead of yours always" is all you need to see in order to point yourself to Chapter 7 or Chapter 9 to learn that attacks with weapons you are proficient with (which includes the natural weapons of a beast, which you gain proficiency in when you wildshape into said beast) are calculated by adding Proficiency Bonus (druid's) + Strength for melee/Dexterity for range (Beast's).
Awkwardness... mia culpa, I did mis-read one thing, and its a doozy that shakes me to my very core:
Wildshaped druids do not gain proficiency in attacks that the beast form is proficient in. A Brown Bear may well be proficient in Bite (+6 sure looks like +4 strength modifier and a +2 proficiency modifier), but a druid wildshaped into a Brown Bear only picks up its save proficiencies (none) and skill proficiencies (perception). So when you go to make a bite... you should be doing it at a straight +4 strength, unless you are otherwise proficient in Bite (such as by being a Lizardfolk).
There's one of two ways around this:
1) Errata into wildshape that a wilshaped druid retains "all of your skill, saving throw, and weapon proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature."
2) Abandon all hope and concede that there is an unwritten bullet point in the Wildshape entry that says "Ignore everything you know about calculating attacks and damage, turn off your brain, and just use the beast's statblock." Even if that's the case, the skill stuff is still incontrovertibly based on your druid proficiency bonus, so that's like the weirdest possible compromise, but hey we're off the deep end now.
Honestly, I just never read that it was range: self :)
I dunno, in the event that somebody gets excited about gestalt rules or something, or homebrews a shapechange-like spell that isn't range: self, or homebrews a druid subclass with a level 19 feature that provides a bonus to Str/Dex/Con, or if a magic item were to be homebrewed or released which provided shapechange on use.... I was just illustrating a larger point: you keep your features, but if your feature gives you a bonus to str/dex/con, it won't have any effect because those stats are "replaced" entirely
Giant Soul Sorcerer 18/Druid 2. There you go, that's a better example: the Blessing of the All Father +2 to Constitution won't apply while wildshaped :)
There is no "if the DM decides to allow it" at play, it is a 100% settled question that wildshaped druids keep their proficiency bonus.
It's not 100% settled since the rules are slightly ambiguous, Jeremy's comments don't seem to line up 100% with the RAW and different people care about Jeremy's tweets to varying degrees.
The numerical value of your proficiency bonus is a class feature that is separate and distinct from the list of proficiencies to which it is applied, and is carried over into wildshape as a "feature" that has been provided by class or "other source." Look at your character sheet, does it say "Proficiency Bonus: +X in skills a, b, c..."? No. It is its own feature, separate and apart from the individual skills, saves, and attacks to which it is applied. But for the purpose of this topic, it's a distinction without a difference since druids retain their proficiencies while wildshaped.
The distinction does matter since your statistics get replaced but you get to keep "features from your class, race, or other source." Your proficiency bonus isn't a feature of your race or class.
Awkwardness... mia culpa, I did mis-read one thing, and its a doozy that shakes me to my very core: Wildshaped druids do not gain proficiency in attacks that the beast form is proficient in.
Which makes perfect sense if your proficiency bonus gets replaced along with your speed, HP, ability scores, etc.
There's one of two ways around this:
1) Errata into wildshape that a wilshaped druid retains "all of your skill, saving throw, and weapon proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature."
2) Abandon all hope and concede that there is an unwritten bullet point in the Wildshape entry that says "Ignore everything you know about calculating attacks and damage, turn off your brain, and just use the beast's statblock."
It's definitely #2. From a design standpoint, the less stuff you have to recalculate the better. That's why spells like Enlarge/Reduce use advantage/disadvantage instead of changing your Strength and Dexterity scores.
Even if that's the case, the skill stuff is still incontrovertibly based on your druid proficiency bonus
Maybe.
The rules say you keep your skill and saving throw proficiencies. You said that "the numerical value of your proficiency bonus is a class feature that is separate and distinct from the list of proficiencies to which it is applied." I'm on that camp as far as the RAW is concerned. By your own logic your proficiency bonus shouldn't carry over and you should be calculating your bonus for skills and saves using the beast's ability scores and proficiency bonus (unless the stat block has a higher number than the result.)
Always use the beast's proficiency bonus for skills and saves, even your own (very strict reading of the RAW.)
Use your proficiency bonus for your own skills and saves (generous interpretation of what it means to keep your proficiencies, lines up with the Shapechanger tweet.)
Use your proficiency bonus for your own skills and saves if the beast is also proficient in it (generous interpretation of comparing the beast's bonus to your own, lines up with the Dragon Talk podcast.)
In the end there's no 100% unambiguously correct answer. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If animals can speak, why can’t a Druid cast spells that use verbal components? Then pick up mage hand and use it for the somatic components. And since anything you are holding would meld with you you have a focus to use instead of material components, or since you would have them on you they are there also if they are not consumed. ?
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We've been down this road before, but seeing as the recent druid article misstates the rules for wildshaped proficiencies, here are some things stand being repeated:
1) Wildshaped druids retain their race, class, and feat features, unless A) the new form physically prohibits them, or B) the feature is sensory.
2) Wildshaped druids assume the "statistics" of the beast, with the exception of retaining alignment, personality, mental stats, and the skills and features listed above.
3) Generally, attacks, skills, and saves are calculated the same way they are for everything else in the game: attribute modifier + proficiency bonus + any other misc. non duplicative bonus
4) ONE AND ONLY EXCEPTION: IF druid shares a proficiency with the beast form they've shaped into, AND IF calculating a skill/save/attack using the normal rules results in a lower number than shown in the creature's stat block, THEN the druid will use the higher number shown in the statblock
"something something you can use the druid's proficiency bonus instead of the beast's only if they share a proficiency something"dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Some nitpicks:
Proficiency bonus isn't a class feature and he doesn't talk about class features in that tweet. If the DM decides any part of Wild Shape allows you to retain your proficiency bonus, it's the part that talks about keeping your skill and save proficiencies.
A lycanthrope doesn't have a biological basis for its immunity to nonsilvered weapons so it's not outrageous that at least some creatures have a non-biological reason for their weakness to sunlight. Vampires are a clear example. Even in the case of humanoids like the Drow, where it's outright said to be a result of being underground for so long, a biological explanation doesn't fully add up. For one thing they can't seem to circumvent the problem with sunglasses and for another MToF claims "they can’t bear the touch of [sunlight] on their flesh" even though they're dark-skinned.
Most of the time this is true, but not always. There's monsters that don't add their proficiency bonus to an attack, like the ghoul. I don't think this affect any beasts, but it also doesn't matter since the druid's proficiency bonus is irrelevant for attacks.
That first tweet makes sense when you remember Wild Shape only lets you carry over your skill and save proficiencies.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Drow and Duergar have sunlight sensitivity from being cursed by their gods for betrayals, no idea about why kobolds or others might have it.
Nice to have this list of reminders though, more than once I've had to point out to our druid a bonus or some such that got forgotten.
There is no "if the DM decides to allow it" at play, it is a 100% settled question that wildshaped druids keep their proficiency bonus. This isn't a thread about a rule clarification for something murky, it is a PSA because many players incorrectly use beast statblocks from the MM as a stand-in for calculating their own wildshape's custom statblock, which is A) not RAW and B) almost always sub-optimal from level 5 onwards. Just because it's a common error doesn't make it a supportable rule interpretation in the face of contradictory RAW text in the Players Handbook.
The numerical value of your proficiency bonus is a class feature that is separate and distinct from the list of proficiencies to which it is applied, and is carried over into wildshape as a "feature" that has been provided by class or "other source." Look at your character sheet, does it say "Proficiency Bonus: +X in skills a, b, c..."? No. It is its own feature, separate and apart from the individual skills, saves, and attacks to which it is applied. But for the purpose of this topic, it's a distinction without a difference since druids retain their proficiencies while wildshaped. So, I guess knock yourself out and call your proficiency bonus a proficiency, if that's what really floats your boat?
January 22, 2015 Sage Advice (12:18 am tweet): A wildshaped druid keeps their druid proficiency bonus, and uses it to calculate the beast's attack bonus (unless the beast's is higher than the wildshaped druid would calculate). Later that day he follows up with a "the intent is..." RAI opinion, which as I've already explained, is inconsistent with many other (later) rulings. If the intent was that druids proficiency bonuses should not apply to attacks/saves/skills that the druid is not already proficient in, there was ample space and opportunity within the wildshape feature entry to say so, it is not a short feature where anything was left unsaid. But it doesn't say that, nor does it even come close to implying it. Even Crawford can't RAI rules wholecloth without pointing to rules text to hang it on.
April 16, 2018 Sage Advice: When asked whether a proficiency bonus is a class feature which is retained while Shapechanged, Crawford responds that proficiency bonus is retained while shapechanged/wildshaped. He's essentially saying "yes," but if you want to split hairs and say "yes but its not a class feature its something else," fine, a distinction without a difference.
In Chapter 7 we are told that Proficiency Bonus is "determined by level." Again, whether you call the benefits provided by your levels a feature of your "class" or of an "other source" is a distinction without a difference, either way it's a feature you have which wildshape/shapechange lets you keep.
February 4, 2018 Sage Advice: You don't add both druid and beast's proficiency bonus to a beast attack. But the answer to "which one do you use?" is found in "the first bullet of the class feature." That bullet reads: "Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast, but you retain your alignment, personality, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. You also retain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature. If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus in its stat block is higher than yours, use the creature’s bonus instead of yours. If the creature has any legendary or lair actions, you can’t use them." Again, the fact that this paragraph doesn't say "use the creature's proficiency bonus for its attacks instead of yours always" is all you need to see in order to point yourself to Chapter 7 or Chapter 9 to learn that attacks with weapons you are proficient with (which includes the natural weapons of a beast, which you gain proficiency in when you wildshape into said beast) are calculated by adding Proficiency Bonus (druid's) + Strength for melee/Dexterity for range (Beast's).
As for the drow sunlight sensitivity thing... yeah I get it, drow are evil and cursed blah blah. I guess I should have spelled out where I was going with that particular quote when I first decided to include it in this list: while November 23, 2016 Sage Advice: provided that a wildshaped lizardman loses his scales, the December 3, 2016 drow ruling provides that sunlight sensitivity carries over to anything with sight as a sense, even if that sight isn't being provided by the eyes of a biological drow. So, in general I would say that the rule Crawford is drawing suggests a DM should "be generous" when considering whether a racial feature has been rendered impossible by the beast's physiology: movement features should persist for anything that has a move speed, weapon proficiency features should persist for anything that has hands capable of grasping weapons, hold breath features persist for anything that still has lungs, etc.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Awkwardness... mia culpa, I did mis-read one thing, and its a doozy that shakes me to my very core:
Wildshaped druids do not gain proficiency in attacks that the beast form is proficient in. A Brown Bear may well be proficient in Bite (+6 sure looks like +4 strength modifier and a +2 proficiency modifier), but a druid wildshaped into a Brown Bear only picks up its save proficiencies (none) and skill proficiencies (perception). So when you go to make a bite... you should be doing it at a straight +4 strength, unless you are otherwise proficient in Bite (such as by being a Lizardfolk).
There's one of two ways around this:
1) Errata into wildshape that a wilshaped druid retains "all of your skill, saving throw, and weapon proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature."
2) Abandon all hope and concede that there is an unwritten bullet point in the Wildshape entry that says "Ignore everything you know about calculating attacks and damage, turn off your brain, and just use the beast's statblock." Even if that's the case, the skill stuff is still incontrovertibly based on your druid proficiency bonus, so that's like the weirdest possible compromise, but hey we're off the deep end now.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
“Shapechanged barb 20”
This has me confused. How does a 20th level Barbarian cast a 9th level Druid spell with Range: Self?
Are you referring to something else?
Honestly, I just never read that it was range: self :)
I dunno, in the event that somebody gets excited about gestalt rules or something, or homebrews a shapechange-like spell that isn't range: self, or homebrews a druid subclass with a level 19 feature that provides a bonus to Str/Dex/Con, or if a magic item were to be homebrewed or released which provided shapechange on use.... I was just illustrating a larger point: you keep your features, but if your feature gives you a bonus to str/dex/con, it won't have any effect because those stats are "replaced" entirely
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Giant Soul Sorcerer 18/Druid 2. There you go, that's a better example: the Blessing of the All Father +2 to Constitution won't apply while wildshaped :)
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Which makes perfect sense if your proficiency bonus gets replaced along with your speed, HP, ability scores, etc.
It's definitely #2. From a design standpoint, the less stuff you have to recalculate the better. That's why spells like Enlarge/Reduce use advantage/disadvantage instead of changing your Strength and Dexterity scores.
Maybe.
The rules say you keep your skill and saving throw proficiencies. You said that "the numerical value of your proficiency bonus is a class feature that is separate and distinct from the list of proficiencies to which it is applied." I'm on that camp as far as the RAW is concerned. By your own logic your proficiency bonus shouldn't carry over and you should be calculating your bonus for skills and saves using the beast's ability scores and proficiency bonus (unless the stat block has a higher number than the result.)
On the other hand there's that tweet from April 16, 2018 where Jeremy says "While you're under the effect of the shapechange spell, you use your proficiencies, including your proficiency bonus, except when...". And there's also the Dragon Talk segment on Wild Shape (around the 12:00 mark) where he says you get to use your proficiency bonus but the beast form's ability modifier if you're both proficient.
So we're left with 3 possible interpretations:
In the end there's no 100% unambiguously correct answer. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The Forum Infestation (TM)
If animals can speak, why can’t a Druid cast spells that use verbal components? Then pick up mage hand and use it for the somatic components. And since anything you are holding would meld with you you have a focus to use instead of material components, or since you would have them on you they are there also if they are not consumed. ?