So I know there is a rule in the players handbook ch10, saying that if a spell has a casting time of 1BA than the only other spell you can cast is a central during the action.
But what if it's reversed. Casting a regular spell as an action and a central as the bonus action. Is there anywhere written that, that is possible or not????
If you cast ANY spell as a bonus action, the only other spells you can cast on your turn are cantrips with a cast time of one action.
The problem is, the order of your action and your bonus action is not defined, so if you cast a spell with your action, and then cast a spell with a bonus action, it can't retroactively disallow the first spell (casting a spell with your action should probably prohibit casting a non-cantrip with a bonus action, but RAW doesn't say so).
If you cast ANY spell as a bonus action, the only other spells you can cast on your turn are cantrips with a cast time of one action.
The problem is, the order of your action and your bonus action is not defined, so if you cast a spell with your action, and then cast a spell with a bonus action, it can't retroactively disallow the first spell (casting a spell with your action should probably prohibit casting a non-cantrip with a bonus action, but RAW doesn't say so).
It can and it does. If you cast a non-cantrip as an action (or any spell as a reaction for whatever reason) on your turn, you can't cast a spell as a bonus action.
If you have already broken the restriction on bonus action spells before casting it, you can't cast it.
It can and it does. If you cast a non-cantrip as an action (or any spell as a reaction for whatever reason) on your turn, you can't cast a spell as a bonus action.
Where does it say that? I agree that's RAI, but I don't actually see it written anywhere (I could have missed it, of course).
It can and it does. If you cast a non-cantrip as an action (or any spell as a reaction for whatever reason) on your turn, you can't cast a spell as a bonus action.
Where does it say that? I agree that's RAI, but I don't actually see it written anywhere (I could have missed it, of course).
You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
This doesn't only apply after casting a bonus action spell, it applies before and during as well.
If a course of action breaks the rules either actively or retroactively, then you can't do it.
Just to reiterate DxJxC; the order doesn't matter. It doesn't say, 'you're no longer able to cast another spell' - it's quite blunt about 'during the same turn'.
I think the reason it's not even more explicit, is to avoid confusion with spells cast as a reaction during your turn: if it were to say that 'you can only cast 2 spells on your turn, one of which can only be a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action', then it would prevent you from using spells cast as a reaction in the (admitedly rare) case you use your reaction during your turn.
For what it's worth, Jeremy Crawford answered this:
Q: How do bonus action spell rules go when a noncantrip is cast as a single action then a bonus action spell?
JC: If you cast a spell of 1st-level or higher with 1 action, you can't then cast a bonus action spell.'
Just to reiterate DxJxC; the order doesn't matter. It doesn't say, 'you're no longer able to cast another spell' - it's quite blunt about 'during the same turn'.
I think the reason it's not even more explicit, is to avoid confusion with spells cast as a reaction during your turn: if it were to say that 'you can only cast 2 spells on your turn, one of which can only be a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action', then it would prevent you from using spells cast as a reaction in the (admitedly rare) case you use your reaction during your turn.
The more common scenario is probably Action Surge. If the rule were worded as you suggest, eldritch knights couldn't use Action Surge to get two spells off.
That said, reactions on your turn are probably more useful than many people might think: just anecdotally, I imagine the evergreen "counterspelling counterspell" is what most people think of, and that probably is extremely rare. But a more common (and more useful) scenario is: casting Shield to defend against an attack of opportunity.
Just to reiterate DxJxC; the order doesn't matter. It doesn't say, 'you're no longer able to cast another spell' - it's quite blunt about 'during the same turn'.
I think the reason it's not even more explicit, is to avoid confusion with spells cast as a reaction during your turn: if it were to say that 'you can only cast 2 spells on your turn, one of which can only be a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action', then it would prevent you from using spells cast as a reaction in the (admitedly rare) case you use your reaction during your turn.
The more common scenario is probably Action Surge. If the rule were worded as you suggest, eldritch knights couldn't use Action Surge to get two spells off.
That said, reactions on your turn are probably more useful than many people might think: just anecdotally, I imagine the evergreen "counterspelling counterspell" is what most people think of, and that probably is extremely rare. But a more common (and more useful) scenario is: casting Shield to defend against an attack of opportunity.
This is not how it works. The rule is EXACTLY as follows.
Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
So, in order to cast a spell as a Bonus Action the following criteria must be met:
- You haven't already taken a bonus action this turn.
- You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
There is no rule limiting you from casting a Fireball then using action surge and casting it again. This ruling is specifically about casting spells as a BONUS action.
Just to reiterate DxJxC; the order doesn't matter. It doesn't say, 'you're no longer able to cast another spell' - it's quite blunt about 'during the same turn'.
I think the reason it's not even more explicit, is to avoid confusion with spells cast as a reaction during your turn: if it were to say that 'you can only cast 2 spells on your turn, one of which can only be a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action', then it would prevent you from using spells cast as a reaction in the (admitedly rare) case you use your reaction during your turn.
The more common scenario is probably Action Surge. If the rule were worded as you suggest, eldritch knights couldn't use Action Surge to get two spells off.
I wasn't suggesting that it be worded that way - I was suggesting why it isn't worded that way; and giving the reaction spell as an example - but yes, your example of Action Surge is more common.
But that said, I was wrong: if you cast a spell as a bonus action, you can't cast a spell as a reaction on your turn (unless it's a cantrip).
If you cast a bonus action spell on your turn and an opponent counterspells it. You can't counterspell the counterspell.
This may be one case where cure wounds might be better than healing word (or mass healing word). If you use healing word to get a team mate back up, it could be counterspelled and you can't prevent it (e.g. lore bard with counterspell as a magical secret and healing word) while if you cast cure wounds you would be able to counterspell the counterspell. Very niche but it might come up.
It also says except for A cantrips, not except for cantrips. So if you use healing word as a bonus action you can not use action surge to cast two cantrips.
It also says except for A cantrips, not except for cantrips. So if you use healing word as a bonus action you can not use action surge to cast two cantrips.
That is incorrect. Casting a cantrip with a cast time of one action does not change the fact that a second cantrip with a cast time of one action is still also a cantrip with a cast time of one action, which the rules explicitly allow you to cast.
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So I know there is a rule in the players handbook ch10, saying that if a spell has a casting time of 1BA than the only other spell you can cast is a central during the action.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/spellcasting#CastingaSpell
But what if it's reversed. Casting a regular spell as an action and a central as the bonus action. Is there anywhere written that, that is possible or not????
If you cast ANY spell as a bonus action, the only other spells you can cast on your turn are cantrips with a cast time of one action.
This is why quickening cantrips is almost never worth it; it prevents you from casting a spell of 1st-level or higher with your action.
The problem is, the order of your action and your bonus action is not defined, so if you cast a spell with your action, and then cast a spell with a bonus action, it can't retroactively disallow the first spell (casting a spell with your action should probably prohibit casting a non-cantrip with a bonus action, but RAW doesn't say so).
It can and it does. If you cast a non-cantrip as an action (or any spell as a reaction for whatever reason) on your turn, you can't cast a spell as a bonus action.
If you have already broken the restriction on bonus action spells before casting it, you can't cast it.
Where does it say that? I agree that's RAI, but I don't actually see it written anywhere (I could have missed it, of course).
This doesn't only apply after casting a bonus action spell, it applies before and during as well.
If a course of action breaks the rules either actively or retroactively, then you can't do it.
Just to reiterate DxJxC; the order doesn't matter. It doesn't say, 'you're no longer able to cast another spell' - it's quite blunt about 'during the same turn'.
I think the reason it's not even more explicit, is to avoid confusion with spells cast as a reaction during your turn: if it were to say that 'you can only cast 2 spells on your turn, one of which can only be a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action', then it would prevent you from using spells cast as a reaction in the (admitedly rare) case you use your reaction during your turn.
For what it's worth, Jeremy Crawford answered this:
The more common scenario is probably Action Surge. If the rule were worded as you suggest, eldritch knights couldn't use Action Surge to get two spells off.
That said, reactions on your turn are probably more useful than many people might think: just anecdotally, I imagine the evergreen "counterspelling counterspell" is what most people think of, and that probably is extremely rare. But a more common (and more useful) scenario is: casting Shield to defend against an attack of opportunity.
This is not how it works. The rule is EXACTLY as follows.
Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
So, in order to cast a spell as a Bonus Action the following criteria must be met:
- You haven't already taken a bonus action this turn.
- You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
There is no rule limiting you from casting a Fireball then using action surge and casting it again. This ruling is specifically about casting spells as a BONUS action.
@Twiig, they were talking about hypothetical rules.
I wasn't suggesting that it be worded that way - I was suggesting why it isn't worded that way; and giving the reaction spell as an example - but yes, your example of Action Surge is more common.
But that said, I was wrong: if you cast a spell as a bonus action, you can't cast a spell as a reaction on your turn (unless it's a cantrip).
I'm just confusing the issue. Apologies.
You can't cast cantrips with your reaction either. It specifically has to be as an action.
This is true - I've confused the issue, and also myself. Thanks for clarification.
A reaction typically isn't on your turn,
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
True, typically, but in this thread we've already established some situations in which it sucks to not be able to cast reaction spells on your turn :P
One good example that was already cited.
If you cast a bonus action spell on your turn and an opponent counterspells it. You can't counterspell the counterspell.
This may be one case where cure wounds might be better than healing word (or mass healing word). If you use healing word to get a team mate back up, it could be counterspelled and you can't prevent it (e.g. lore bard with counterspell as a magical secret and healing word) while if you cast cure wounds you would be able to counterspell the counterspell. Very niche but it might come up.
Okay, I see. Yes, you can't cast another leveled spell (besides cantrips) on your turn once you cast any bonus action spell.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
And only cantrips with a casting time of 'one action'. And only if you have an action available.
It also says except for A cantrips, not except for cantrips. So if you use healing word as a bonus action you can not use action surge to cast two cantrips.
That is incorrect. Casting a cantrip with a cast time of one action does not change the fact that a second cantrip with a cast time of one action is still also a cantrip with a cast time of one action, which the rules explicitly allow you to cast.