Do an order of operations: first wizard uses portent to make the roll a 2, likely to make an attack miss. Then second wizard uses portent to make the roll an 18. Second one overrides the first one and both portents are consumed. (this is how I would rule it, at least)
Do an order of operations: first wizard uses portent to make the roll a 2, likely to make an attack miss. Then second wizard uses portent to make the roll an 18. Second one overrides the first one and both portents are consumed. (this is how I would rule it, at least)
This is exactly how I would handle it is as well. I believe it's the most reasonable interpretation of the text. The only other interpretation that I think is at all supported by the text is OP's option 2, precisely because Portent must be declared before the roll. I would understand an argument that claims using Portent counts as "doing the roll," so that the "before the roll" condition isn't met for the second diviner. I think it's more fun to allow chained portents though: "But you see, I already foresaw that you would foresee this, so now I have the advantage!"
I'm not really sure whether there is a RAW answer for this.
Personally I would rule the first person to say "Portent" is the one whose Portent counts. I would say once a Portent has been declared - the other one can't declare (your option 2). I mean - they can't both have had a dream about the same event but have it happen different ways - because one of them would be wrong and therefore not a portent.
Your idea of saying they both cancel each other out (option 1) would be my second choice. It's how the Lucky Feat works and is a very similar ability.
Do an order of operations: first wizard uses portent to make the roll a 2, likely to make an attack miss. Then second wizard uses portent to make the roll an 18. Second one overrides the first one and both portents are consumed. (this is how I would rule it, at least)
We considered that and rejected it as unreasonable and less 'fun'. You are punishing the smarter, quicker player. He spoke first, then you let the slower player over-ride him.
Also, when you use a portent roll you are REPLACING an attack/save/ability with a 'foretelling roll'. Once that has happened, there is no 'attack/save/ability' roll left to replace. Just the foretelling roll. Tthat was the logic behind our option 2.
Some said it should go by the character's init, not the players, as it is a roll playing game, which is where we got option 3.
The DM said it was more fun to use up the foretelling rolls, so we could undo what the others did, if not win out right.
I'm not really sure whether there is a RAW answer for this.
Personally I would rule the first person to say "Portent" is the one whose Portent counts. I would say once a Portent has been declared - the other one can't declare (your option 2). I mean - they can't both have had a dream about the same event but have it happen different ways - because one of them would be wrong and therefore not a portent.
Your idea of saying they both cancel each other out (option 1) would be my second choice. It's how the Lucky Feat works and is a very similar ability.
^^ this.
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Also, when you use a portent roll you are REPLACING an attack/save/ability with a 'foretelling roll'. Once that has happened, there is no 'attack/save/ability' roll left to replace. Just the foretelling roll. Tthat was the logic behind our option 2.
That was my logic as well. Portent can only be used before a roll - and once someone has used a Portent dice on a roll - it has been declared and therefore locked - making any other use of Portent invalid because it is now after the roll.
Do an order of operations: first wizard uses portent to make the roll a 2, likely to make an attack miss. Then second wizard uses portent to make the roll an 18. Second one overrides the first one and both portents are consumed. (this is how I would rule it, at least)
We considered that and rejected it as unreasonable and less 'fun'. You are punishing the smarter, quicker player. He spoke first, then you let the slower player over-ride him.
Also, when you use a portent roll you are REPLACING an attack/save/ability with a 'foretelling roll'. Once that has happened, there is no 'attack/save/ability' roll left to replace. Just the foretelling roll. Tthat was the logic behind our option 2.
Some said it should go by the character's init, not the players, as it is a roll playing game, which is where we got option 3.
The DM said it was more fun to use up the foretelling rolls, so we could undo what the others did, if not win out right.
You’re not punishing the smarter quicker player.
the person who uses portent first is the equivalent of the guy who bails out during a game of chicken first.
I'm not really sure whether there is a RAW answer for this.
Personally I would rule the first person to say "Portent" is the one whose Portent counts. I would say once a Portent has been declared - the other one can't declare (your option 2). I mean - they can't both have had a dream about the same event but have it happen different ways - because one of them would be wrong and therefore not a portent.
Your idea of saying they both cancel each other out (option 1) would be my second choice. It's how the Lucky Feat works and is a very similar ability.
^^ this.
The problem with this^^
is they both can’t have a portent on the same thing...
Who is to say the 2nd portent “was not specifically dreamed up for the reality where the first portent happened”
you can’t say that. You cannot prove nothing disprove that.
2 divination wizards using portent is a game of chicken. You use yours. You risk them overriding yours with theirs. Or vice versa.
that said....
—- I thought this over a bit.
i personally feel. It’s less like the chicken scenarios painted.
portent cancels out the need for a roll. So there’s no trigger. So whoever calls portent first is the winner. Portent is actually more like “DIBS” as RAW.
option 2 is RAW.
vvv his contested rolls to determine the “dibs” makes a lot of sense to me.
I'd probably go with a different option. My reasoning is:
1) Only one person can use portent on a single roll - after all, once a Portent is used, it's no longer before the roll, it's after it, there's no roll left to replace.
2) But combat in D&D is turn-based - which player "speaks first" shouldn't matter. Which player is faster to speak does not represent which character is faster to act - especially if players wait to, for example, get clarification from the DM. I don't want to encourage players to rush to say dibs on actions out of a worry that someone else might do something else first.
So I need some way of distinguishing which player goes first. As far as I know there's no RAW for it so I'd have to improvise something. Option 3 - by inititiative - is pretty good, but has the issue that it's set for the whole round, and I feel I don't want to make that one pre-existing roll be more and more important.
So I'd probably make the two players who are racing each other make opposed rolls! Maybe contested checks of their spellcasting ability. Winner gets to use their portent.
Once one person uses Portent, the dice has already been rolled and assigned a value.
The other person cannot use Portent, because you can only use Portent before the dice has been rolled.
As for choosing who gets first dibs on choosing whether or not to use their Portent, I would assign it to the player whose turn it is. If its neither person's turn, I would give first dibs to the person who is allied to the person whose turn it is.
When Portent is being used, what actually happens? Is my wizard making any specific actions?
The reason I am asking is because I did a portent to an enemy that attacked another player, and the enemy missed his attack, but then the enemy realized that I did something to it, and attacked me.
However, I thought that wasn't right and I challenged the DM, as they way I interpreted Portent is that my wizard can just see a glipse of the future and see what is going to happen.
As far as the rules go - the Wizard isn't doing anything - the player is. Really none of the characters know anything different happened compared with what could have happened. You can flavour it however you like but no - the NPC would have no reason to go after you - at least - not because of Portent anyway.
Basically your Wizard has 2 or 3 visions/dreams in the morning and later that day they come true. That's about all there is to it unless you want to make it more in depth for RP.
Basically your Wizard has 2 or 3 visions/dreams in the morning and later that day they come true. That's about all there is to it unless you want to make it more in depth for RP.
This. The very nature of Portent is retroactive; the player is deciding after the fact what it was that the wizard foresaw earlier in the day. Since the whole thing is retroactive, I think an "order of operations" approach isn't very satisfying. I'd ask the players to work out among themselves who wants to use the portent; the other player keeps their die.
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Two Divination Wizards are fighting each other. They both try to use a portent.
What happens? In my game we came up with three ways to resolve this:
It must be declared before a roll is done.
Do an order of operations: first wizard uses portent to make the roll a 2, likely to make an attack miss. Then second wizard uses portent to make the roll an 18. Second one overrides the first one and both portents are consumed. (this is how I would rule it, at least)
This is exactly how I would handle it is as well. I believe it's the most reasonable interpretation of the text. The only other interpretation that I think is at all supported by the text is OP's option 2, precisely because Portent must be declared before the roll. I would understand an argument that claims using Portent counts as "doing the roll," so that the "before the roll" condition isn't met for the second diviner. I think it's more fun to allow chained portents though: "But you see, I already foresaw that you would foresee this, so now I have the advantage!"
I'm not really sure whether there is a RAW answer for this.
Personally I would rule the first person to say "Portent" is the one whose Portent counts. I would say once a Portent has been declared - the other one can't declare (your option 2). I mean - they can't both have had a dream about the same event but have it happen different ways - because one of them would be wrong and therefore not a portent.
Your idea of saying they both cancel each other out (option 1) would be my second choice. It's how the Lucky Feat works and is a very similar ability.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
We considered that and rejected it as unreasonable and less 'fun'. You are punishing the smarter, quicker player. He spoke first, then you let the slower player over-ride him.
Also, when you use a portent roll you are REPLACING an attack/save/ability with a 'foretelling roll'. Once that has happened, there is no 'attack/save/ability' roll left to replace. Just the foretelling roll. Tthat was the logic behind our option 2.
Some said it should go by the character's init, not the players, as it is a roll playing game, which is where we got option 3.
The DM said it was more fun to use up the foretelling rolls, so we could undo what the others did, if not win out right.
^^ this.
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Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
That was my logic as well. Portent can only be used before a roll - and once someone has used a Portent dice on a roll - it has been declared and therefore locked - making any other use of Portent invalid because it is now after the roll.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
You’re not punishing the smarter quicker player.
the person who uses portent first is the equivalent of the guy who bails out during a game of chicken first.
Blank
The problem with this^^
is they both can’t have a portent on the same thing...
Who is to say the 2nd portent “was not specifically dreamed up for the reality where the first portent happened”
you can’t say that. You cannot prove nothing disprove that.
2 divination wizards using portent is a game of chicken. You use yours. You risk them overriding yours with theirs. Or vice versa.
that said....
—- I thought this over a bit.
i personally feel. It’s less like the chicken scenarios painted.
portent cancels out the need for a roll. So there’s no trigger. So whoever calls portent first is the winner. Portent is actually more like “DIBS” as RAW.
option 2 is RAW.
vvv his contested rolls to determine the “dibs” makes a lot of sense to me.
Blank
I'd probably go with a different option. My reasoning is:
1) Only one person can use portent on a single roll - after all, once a Portent is used, it's no longer before the roll, it's after it, there's no roll left to replace.
2) But combat in D&D is turn-based - which player "speaks first" shouldn't matter. Which player is faster to speak does not represent which character is faster to act - especially if players wait to, for example, get clarification from the DM. I don't want to encourage players to rush to say dibs on actions out of a worry that someone else might do something else first.
So I need some way of distinguishing which player goes first. As far as I know there's no RAW for it so I'd have to improvise something. Option 3 - by inititiative - is pretty good, but has the issue that it's set for the whole round, and I feel I don't want to make that one pre-existing roll be more and more important.
So I'd probably make the two players who are racing each other make opposed rolls! Maybe contested checks of their spellcasting ability. Winner gets to use their portent.
Once one person uses Portent, the dice has already been rolled and assigned a value.
The other person cannot use Portent, because you can only use Portent before the dice has been rolled.
As for choosing who gets first dibs on choosing whether or not to use their Portent, I would assign it to the player whose turn it is. If its neither person's turn, I would give first dibs to the person who is allied to the person whose turn it is.
Hi guys,
When Portent is being used, what actually happens? Is my wizard making any specific actions?
The reason I am asking is because I did a portent to an enemy that attacked another player, and the enemy missed his attack, but then the enemy realized that I did something to it, and attacked me.
However, I thought that wasn't right and I challenged the DM, as they way I interpreted Portent is that my wizard can just see a glipse of the future and see what is going to happen.
What do you think?
Thanks,
As far as the rules go - the Wizard isn't doing anything - the player is. Really none of the characters know anything different happened compared with what could have happened. You can flavour it however you like but no - the NPC would have no reason to go after you - at least - not because of Portent anyway.
Basically your Wizard has 2 or 3 visions/dreams in the morning and later that day they come true. That's about all there is to it unless you want to make it more in depth for RP.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
This. The very nature of Portent is retroactive; the player is deciding after the fact what it was that the wizard foresaw earlier in the day. Since the whole thing is retroactive, I think an "order of operations" approach isn't very satisfying. I'd ask the players to work out among themselves who wants to use the portent; the other player keeps their die.
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