The Mighty Summoner feature from the Circle of the Shephard says "Any beast or fey you conjure appears with more HP than normal (2 extra HP per Hit Die)".
I'm trying to understand what this means for the beast summoned by the Summon Bestial Spirit (UA) spell, as this creature has "Hit Points equal the beast's Constitution modifier + your spellcasting ability modifier + ten times the spell's level".
No explicit hit die is mentioned. The creature would have 10*2+stuff HP if cast at level 2. Does that mean that it has 10d4 hit die or 2d20 hit die?
20 extra hp for a 2nd level spell seems to much, but equally, I've never seen a creature with a d20 die.
The UA summons don't have hit dice so they don't get bonus HP from that feature.
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Perhaps, but it is the way it works currently. The Rules As Written of the Shepard Druid feature is that the HP given is based on the number of Hit Dice the summoned creature has. So, if the summoned created as no hit dice, then no HP is given.
The UA is playtest so this may get addressed before it becomes official. Since it's currently not official it is used much like homebrew - talk to your DM if you want to make changes.
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If you're looking for a RAI patch, the "ten times the spell's level" part in Summon Bestial Spirit is aproximating the effect of receiving 10 hp per hit die. Providing an extra 2 HP per spell level (default of 4 as a second level spell, or more if upcast) would be the best way to get at it.
Something like what Chicken_Champ would be a good workaround for the current UA.
If you look at the creatures that you summon with these "summon X spirit" spells in comparison to similar "conjure X" spells, the HP of the summon versions are always far lower than the conjure versions. I don't know if it was intentional (as a balancing change) or just copy-pasting from similar class features (such as steel defender), but HP one of the issues with the current versions of the spell. With similar slots, the summoned creatures get 70% to 40% of the HP that conjured creatures get. It is odd to me that (besides non-magical damage resistance) the HP is the thing that the devs thought that needed buffed in order to make summoning a viable option, yet when they built new summoning spells, all the HP went down significantly.
I found that when comparing single creatures that you get with a particular spell level, the summon creatures versions do reasonable damage (they don't get great damage die, but do get big, scaling modifiers that more than make up for it -- especially that to hit mod, which is as important to damage as the actual damage numbers), have some utility that doesn't cover nearly the range that the monster manual options do, and tend to be best summed using even spell levels (sure you get a few more HP upcasting to 3rd level, but you get even more HP and an extra attack if you can use a 4th level slot instead).
Did a little comparison and number crunching and here's where I've landed:
Generally speaking, the Hit Die of a beast correlates with its size - Tiny(d4), Small(d6), Medium(d8), Large(d10).
Summon Bestial Spirit summons a "Small beast".
Assuming the standard starting spellcasting modifier of +3, this gives the creature 26HP.
Total HP / (1d6+Con) = 4 Hit Die
If cast at a higher level, it gains 10hp, which corresponds with the average result of 2d6+3.
As a rule of thumb, this means that theBestial Spirithas2d6 HD per spell level with a diminishing R.O.I. as the spell scales, which is standard for all spells.
I’m certainly not in possession of an advanced copy, or in any position to reasonably expect one. But, the information known about the book indicates that there will be new spells, including new conjugation spells for players (though I’m not sure of that exact source of information). We won’t know if the spells are there until we see the book and we won’t know if this issue has been addressed until we see the book. Sure.
The Mighty Summoner feature from the Circle of the Shephard says "Any beast or fey you conjure appears with more HP than normal (2 extra HP per Hit Die)".
I'm trying to understand what this means for the beast summoned by the Summon Bestial Spirit (UA) spell, as this creature has "Hit Points equal the beast's Constitution modifier + your spellcasting ability modifier + ten times the spell's level".
No explicit hit die is mentioned. The creature would have 10*2+stuff HP if cast at level 2. Does that mean that it has 10d4 hit die or 2d20 hit die?
20 extra hp for a 2nd level spell seems to much, but equally, I've never seen a creature with a d20 die.
The UA summons don't have hit dice so they don't get bonus HP from that feature.
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Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Hopefully this will be fixed when the spells are officially released.
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My Improved Lineage System
This seems a limitation by omission rather than an intended one.
Perhaps, but it is the way it works currently. The Rules As Written of the Shepard Druid feature is that the HP given is based on the number of Hit Dice the summoned creature has. So, if the summoned created as no hit dice, then no HP is given.
The UA is playtest so this may get addressed before it becomes official. Since it's currently not official it is used much like homebrew - talk to your DM if you want to make changes.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
If you're looking for a RAI patch, the "ten times the spell's level" part in Summon Bestial Spirit is aproximating the effect of receiving 10 hp per hit die. Providing an extra 2 HP per spell level (default of 4 as a second level spell, or more if upcast) would be the best way to get at it.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Something like what Chicken_Champ would be a good workaround for the current UA.
If you look at the creatures that you summon with these "summon X spirit" spells in comparison to similar "conjure X" spells, the HP of the summon versions are always far lower than the conjure versions. I don't know if it was intentional (as a balancing change) or just copy-pasting from similar class features (such as steel defender), but HP one of the issues with the current versions of the spell. With similar slots, the summoned creatures get 70% to 40% of the HP that conjured creatures get. It is odd to me that (besides non-magical damage resistance) the HP is the thing that the devs thought that needed buffed in order to make summoning a viable option, yet when they built new summoning spells, all the HP went down significantly.
I found that when comparing single creatures that you get with a particular spell level, the summon creatures versions do reasonable damage (they don't get great damage die, but do get big, scaling modifiers that more than make up for it -- especially that to hit mod, which is as important to damage as the actual damage numbers), have some utility that doesn't cover nearly the range that the monster manual options do, and tend to be best summed using even spell levels (sure you get a few more HP upcasting to 3rd level, but you get even more HP and an extra attack if you can use a 4th level slot instead).
Did a little comparison and number crunching and here's where I've landed:
If cast at a higher level, it gains 10hp, which corresponds with the average result of 2d6+3.
As a rule of thumb, this means that the Bestial Spirit has 2d6 HD per spell level with a diminishing R.O.I. as the spell scales, which is standard for all spells.
Nicely explained!
I wouldn't sweat RAW on playtest content.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Sweating the RAW IS the playtest, though.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
These are possible additions to the Tasha’s book coming soon. It is important to know.
I expect you will know when you open the new book :) Until then, I wouldn't sweat RAW on playtest content.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I’m certainly not in possession of an advanced copy, or in any position to reasonably expect one. But, the information known about the book indicates that there will be new spells, including new conjugation spells for players (though I’m not sure of that exact source of information). We won’t know if the spells are there until we see the book and we won’t know if this issue has been addressed until we see the book. Sure.
Conjugation spells? That will certainly help with learning a new language.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Damn you autocorrect.