Been thinking of making a Hex blade Warlock working my way to getting "Improved Pact Weapon" Invocation. which will let me use a Great bow for a pact weapon (I know Eldritch blast does a D10 while the G-bow does a D-8 but I want to RP summoning a cool bow) with this Pact of the blade combined with using Eldritch Smite would stake some nice damage but a DM in our group argues that Under:
Improved pact weapon: In addition, the weapon gains a +1 bonus to its attack and damage rolls, unless it is a magic weapon that already has a bonus to those rolls.
&
Eldritch Smite: Once per turn when you HITa creature with your pact weapon, you can expend a warlock spell slot to deal an extra 1d8 force damage to the target
and what is hitting/ damaging the creature target is the Arrow and not the pact weapon so it wouldn't get the +1 to hit or damage and wouldn't be able to activate the Eldritch Smite off of. Is there a reference that clarifies that increased damage and hit is done through the bow or the ammunition?
You get the +1 damage when using any +1 weapon, and you can trigger your Smite from it. If your DM needs a reference, I guess you can just show him that +1 longbows exist. +1 Ammunition also exists because it's expendable, you only get the 20 shots - a DM can liberally give out +1 ammunitions because they know the ammunition won't be around forever, like the bow would.
Been thinking of making a Hex blade Warlock working my way to getting "Improved Pact Weapon" Invocation. which will let me use a Great bow for a pact weapon (I know Eldritch blast does a D10 while the G-bow does a D-8 but I want to RP summoning a cool bow) with this Pact of the blade combined with using Eldritch Smite would stake some nice damage but a DM in our group argues that Under:
Improved pact weapon: In addition, the weapon gains a +1 bonus to its attack and damage rolls, unless it is a magic weapon that already has a bonus to those rolls.
&
Eldritch Smite: Once per turn when you HIT a creature with your pact weapon, you can expend a warlock spell slot to deal an extra 1d8 force damage to the target
and what is hitting/ damaging the creature target is the Arrow and not the pact weapon so it wouldn't get the +1 to hit or damage and wouldn't be able to activate the Eldritch Smite off of. Is there a reference that clarifies that increased damage and hit is done through the bow or the ammunition?
Are you attacking with the bow, or the ammunition? Rhetorical: you are absolutely attacking with the bow.
Is the bow your weapon, or is the ammunition your weapon? Rhetorical: the bow is your weapon.
Can you designate ammunition as your pact weapon (regular or improved)? Rhetorical: no, of course not, because ammunition is not a weapon.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
It is also worth noting that if one fires a +1 Arrow using a +1 Bow, then that will result in having a +2 total to both Attack and Damage rolls.
I disagree, but that might be best served in its own thread.
I think a lot of the confusion here arises from the similarities between the paladin's Divine Smite and a warlock's Pact of the Blade pact boon. Divine Smite requires striking the enemy with a melee weapon attack, and Pact of the Blade expressly conjures a melee weapon of the warlock's choosing. The added wrinkle is how the Improved Pact Weapon invocation modifies the feature.
Improved Pact Weapon allows a warlock with Pact of the Blade to conjure up ranged weapons. And since they're magical weapons, any ammunition fired from them is also imparted with magic. The target might be "hit" with an arrow, but the warlock isn't attacking them with an arrow. Instead, they're making a ranged weapon attack with the longbow. And that arrow is, functionally, an extension of the bow.
I would absolutely say a ranged attack from a longbow can be used for Eldritch Smite
You can disagree all you want, but both RAW and RAI, if you fire a +1 Arrow from a +1 Longbow, they stack. And that goes for any +N Ranged weapon with the ammunition property firing an appropriate piece of Ammunition that also has a +N Magic Bonus.
And it doesn’t matter who fires it, Warlock, Paladin or otherwise. So none of the rest of what you said had anything whatsoever to do with what I said.
You disagreeing with that is like disagreeing with the world being round. If that’s how you feel go ahead, but that won’t make the world any flatter.
Been thinking of making a Hex blade Warlock working my way to getting "Improved Pact Weapon" Invocation. which will let me use a Great bow for a pact weapon (I know Eldritch blast does a D10 while the G-bow does a D-8 but I want to RP summoning a cool bow) with this Pact of the blade combined with using Eldritch Smite would stake some nice damage but a DM in our group argues that Under:
Improved pact weapon: In addition, the weapon gains a +1 bonus to its attack and damage rolls, unless it is a magic weapon that already has a bonus to those rolls.
&
Eldritch Smite: Once per turn when you HIT a creature with your pact weapon, you can expend a warlock spell slot to deal an extra 1d8 force damage to the target
and what is hitting/ damaging the creature target is the Arrow and not the pact weapon so it wouldn't get the +1 to hit or damage and wouldn't be able to activate the Eldritch Smite off of. Is there a reference that clarifies that increased damage and hit is done through the bow or the ammunition?
Rules as Written, if you make an Attack with any weapon that has a +1 (or higher) Magic Bonus, then both the Attack and Damage rolls get that +1 (or higher). That includes any ranged weapon that uses ammunition. The wording of Weapon +1 states:
Weapon, +1
Weapon (any), uncommon
You have a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon.
Do you see where it says “Weapon (any)” right up there below the name? It doesn’t say “Weapon (any, but we really only mean melee weapons). It says “any.” And then it goes on to tell you that it grants a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with that weapon. It does not say that the damage bonus only applies to melee weapons. Therefore, if you shoot an arrow at someone with a +1 Longbow, then you absolutely get a +1 bonus to both the Attack and Damage rolls. 100% yes. I don’t care who tells you otherwise, you can read it for yourself right there, and if you don’t believe me, follow the link and see it in its original form in the Basic Rules.
The improved Pact Weapon Invocation states:
Improved Pact Weapon
Prerequisite: Pact of the Blade feature
You can use any weapon you summon with your Pact of the Blade feature as a spellcasting focus for your warlock spells.
In addition, the weapon gains a +1 bonus to its attack and damage rolls, unless it is a magic weapon that already has a bonus to those rolls.
Finally, the weapon you conjure can be a shortbow, longbow, light crossbow, or heavy crossbow.
Notice how it also says that you get “a +1 bonus to its attack and damage rolls, unless it is a magic weapon that already has a bonus to those rolls.” So as long as you start with any weapon without a +1 (or better) Magic enchantment, that still applies. So even if you had a magic weapon, as long as it doesn’t have a bonus like that, it still gets the bonus. For example, if you had a Weapon of Warning, since it has no “bonus to those rolls” you’re golden.
Then it goes on to say that the weapon can be one of a list of bows and crossbows, including the Longbow. And I have already proven that the +1 applies to ranged weapons. So grab a Longbow of Warning and go to town.
As far as ammunition goes, I have you covered there too:
Ammunition, +1
You have a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this piece of magic ammunition. Once it hits a target, the ammunition is no longer magical.
Applicable Ammunition:
Arrows, Blowgun Needles, Crossbow Bolts, and Sling Bullets.
You see how it has the same language of “You have a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this piece of magic ammunition.” There ya go. If you shoot a +1 Arrow from a +1 Longbow, they stack and you get a +2 to both Attack and Damage rolls ladies, gentlemen, and gender non-binary people. You get it all! But wait, there’s more!!
Eldritch Strike says:
Eldritch Smite
Prerequisite: 5th level, Pact of the Blade feature
Once per turn when you hit a creature with your pact weapon, you can expend a warlock spell slot to deal an extra 1d8 force damage to the target, plus another 1d8 per level of the spell slot, and you can knock the target prone if it is Huge or smaller.
You see there where it says “Once per turn when you hit a creature with your pact weapon,” blah blah. Well, you “hit” with an “attack” you see. So that means, if you made the attack using a Longbow, then you “hit” with the longbow. So yes, absolutely you can use Eldritch Smite with an attack made with a Longbow as long as that Longbow is your pact weapon. 100% yes.
And, as a Hexblade, you can also make your Pact Weapon your Hex Weapon, so you can use Charisma instead of Dexterity for both the Attack and Damage bonuses.
Sposta is correct, there has been Sage Advice stuff on it. If your DM gives your archer who has a +3 longbow a +3 arrow, they'd have a +6 to hit and damage just from the magic. That being said he didn't need to multipost about it.
However, we are digressing.
RAW, it's unclear. It talks about hitting with the weapon itself, but bows hit with the arrow. That being said whenever your DM tells you to make an attack you would reply with "I attack with my longbow". I think the fact that unlike Paladin Smite which specifically states it has to be with a melee weapon, I'd allow it. You only have 2 spell slots until level 11 and while you are getting damage faster from your smites than a Paladin would because of how Warlocks gain spell levels, you only get two per combat or 3 if you have a wand of the pact keeper. If you're going into Warlock, which already to most feels like the most limited class, then you are pact of the blade and then spend an invocation on improved pact weapon to be able to do it? There's no reason to stop it. If the DM feels its broken, they can balance their encounters around it.
You can disagree all you want, but both RAW and RAI, if you fire a +1 Arrow from a +1 Longbow, they stack. And that goes for any +N Ranged weapon with the ammunition property firing an appropriate piece of Ammunition that also has a +N Magic Bonus.
And it doesn’t matter who fires it, Warlock, Paladin or otherwise. So none of the rest of what you said had anything whatsoever to do with what I said.
You disagreeing with that is like disagreeing with the world being round. If that’s how you feel go ahead, but that won’t make the world any flatter.
Not everything is about you. In this case, only the first line, the fist sentence, was a response to you. Everything else was a response to the OP.
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Been thinking of making a Hex blade Warlock working my way to getting "Improved Pact Weapon" Invocation. which will let me use a Great bow for a pact weapon (I know Eldritch blast does a D10 while the G-bow does a D-8 but I want to RP summoning a cool bow) with this Pact of the blade combined with using Eldritch Smite would stake some nice damage but a DM in our group argues that Under:
Improved pact weapon: In addition, the weapon gains a +1 bonus to its attack and damage rolls, unless it is a magic weapon that already has a bonus to those rolls.
&
Eldritch Smite: Once per turn when you HIT a creature with your pact weapon, you can expend a warlock spell slot to deal an extra 1d8 force damage to the target
and what is hitting/ damaging the creature target is the Arrow and not the pact weapon so it wouldn't get the +1 to hit or damage and wouldn't be able to activate the Eldritch Smite off of. Is there a reference that clarifies that increased damage and hit is done through the bow or the ammunition?
You get the +1 damage when using any +1 weapon, and you can trigger your Smite from it. If your DM needs a reference, I guess you can just show him that +1 longbows exist. +1 Ammunition also exists because it's expendable, you only get the 20 shots - a DM can liberally give out +1 ammunitions because they know the ammunition won't be around forever, like the bow would.
Are you attacking with the bow, or the ammunition? Rhetorical: you are absolutely attacking with the bow.
Is the bow your weapon, or is the ammunition your weapon? Rhetorical: the bow is your weapon.
Can you designate ammunition as your pact weapon (regular or improved)? Rhetorical: no, of course not, because ammunition is not a weapon.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
It is also worth noting that if one fires a +1 Arrow using a +1 Bow, then that will result in having a +2 total to both Attack and Damage rolls.
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Your DM really hates ranged weapons. How much damage does he think an arrow attack does then (since 1d8 is the longbow's damage)?
I disagree, but that might be best served in its own thread.
I think a lot of the confusion here arises from the similarities between the paladin's Divine Smite and a warlock's Pact of the Blade pact boon. Divine Smite requires striking the enemy with a melee weapon attack, and Pact of the Blade expressly conjures a melee weapon of the warlock's choosing. The added wrinkle is how the Improved Pact Weapon invocation modifies the feature.
Improved Pact Weapon allows a warlock with Pact of the Blade to conjure up ranged weapons. And since they're magical weapons, any ammunition fired from them is also imparted with magic. The target might be "hit" with an arrow, but the warlock isn't attacking them with an arrow. Instead, they're making a ranged weapon attack with the longbow. And that arrow is, functionally, an extension of the bow.
I would absolutely say a ranged attack from a longbow can be used for Eldritch Smite
You can disagree all you want, but both RAW and RAI, if you fire a +1 Arrow from a +1 Longbow, they stack. And that goes for any +N Ranged weapon with the ammunition property firing an appropriate piece of Ammunition that also has a +N Magic Bonus.
And it doesn’t matter who fires it, Warlock, Paladin or otherwise. So none of the rest of what you said had anything whatsoever to do with what I said.You disagreeing with that is like disagreeing with the world being round. If that’s how you feel go ahead, but that won’t make the world any flatter.
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Rules as Written, if you make an Attack with any weapon that has a +1 (or higher) Magic Bonus, then both the Attack and Damage rolls get that +1 (or higher). That includes any ranged weapon that uses ammunition. The wording of Weapon +1 states:
Do you see where it says “Weapon (any)” right up there below the name? It doesn’t say “Weapon (any, but we really only mean melee weapons). It says “any.” And then it goes on to tell you that it grants a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with that weapon. It does not say that the damage bonus only applies to melee weapons. Therefore, if you shoot an arrow at someone with a +1 Longbow, then you absolutely get a +1 bonus to both the Attack and Damage rolls. 100% yes. I don’t care who tells you otherwise, you can read it for yourself right there, and if you don’t believe me, follow the link and see it in its original form in the Basic Rules.
The improved Pact Weapon Invocation states:
Notice how it also says that you get “a +1 bonus to its attack and damage rolls, unless it is a magic weapon that already has a bonus to those rolls.” So as long as you start with any weapon without a +1 (or better) Magic enchantment, that still applies. So even if you had a magic weapon, as long as it doesn’t have a bonus like that, it still gets the bonus. For example, if you had a Weapon of Warning, since it has no “bonus to those rolls” you’re golden.
Then it goes on to say that the weapon can be one of a list of bows and crossbows, including the Longbow. And I have already proven that the +1 applies to ranged weapons. So grab a Longbow of Warning and go to town.
As far as ammunition goes, I have you covered there too:
You see how it has the same language of “You have a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this piece of magic ammunition.” There ya go. If you shoot a +1 Arrow from a +1 Longbow, they stack and you get a +2 to both Attack and Damage rolls ladies, gentlemen, and gender non-binary people. You get it all! But wait, there’s more!!
Eldritch Strike says:
You see there where it says “Once per turn when you hit a creature with your pact weapon,” blah blah. Well, you “hit” with an “attack” you see. So that means, if you made the attack using a Longbow, then you “hit” with the longbow. So yes, absolutely you can use Eldritch Smite with an attack made with a Longbow as long as that Longbow is your pact weapon. 100% yes.
And, as a Hexblade, you can also make your Pact Weapon your Hex Weapon, so you can use Charisma instead of Dexterity for both the Attack and Damage bonuses.
I hope that was helpful.
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Sposta is correct, there has been Sage Advice stuff on it. If your DM gives your archer who has a +3 longbow a +3 arrow, they'd have a +6 to hit and damage just from the magic. That being said he didn't need to multipost about it.
However, we are digressing.
RAW, it's unclear. It talks about hitting with the weapon itself, but bows hit with the arrow. That being said whenever your DM tells you to make an attack you would reply with "I attack with my longbow". I think the fact that unlike Paladin Smite which specifically states it has to be with a melee weapon, I'd allow it. You only have 2 spell slots until level 11 and while you are getting damage faster from your smites than a Paladin would because of how Warlocks gain spell levels, you only get two per combat or 3 if you have a wand of the pact keeper. If you're going into Warlock, which already to most feels like the most limited class, then you are pact of the blade and then spend an invocation on improved pact weapon to be able to do it? There's no reason to stop it. If the DM feels its broken, they can balance their encounters around it.
Not everything is about you. In this case, only the first line, the fist sentence, was a response to you. Everything else was a response to the OP.