The main question is, "what is the action for the spell storing item?" I have already read the sage advice and it seems that it is the " use object action" but it is not said out right.
" When holding the item a creature CAN TAKE AN ACTION to produce the spell effect." This is the ability text I am referring to.
Okay here is the scenario, artillerist artificer with pact of the chain warlock. 1 )Can the artificer put scorching ray into the focus? 2) can a pact of the chain familiar hold the item? 3) can the familiar take the "use object" action on its turn? 4) does this mean the familiar "cast" scorching ray as it's own action?
It’s not a general action. It’s a specific action granted by the spell storing item.
So for your questions:
1) Yes.
2) It would depend on what form the familiar takes, but probably.
3) Yes, but that isn’t the action required to use a spell storing item. But it can use the spell storing item too, because the spell storing item description says it can.
4) No. The familiar would be “producing the spell’s effect” but not casting the spell. The distinction is relevant: for example, a spell storing item’s effect can’t be counterspelled, because the creature isn’t actually casting a spell.
According to the newly updated Sage Advice Compendium, the action to activate an SSI directly corresponds to the "Use an Object" action.
1. Give your SSI with Scorching Ray to someone with Haste
2. Profit
Thanks for pointing that out! I didn’t know it had been addressed in the SAC. That’s really dumb and inconsistent with how magic items work, so I have no intention of following this advice in my own game. But there you go!
It’s not a general action. It’s a specific action granted by the spell storing item.
So for your questions:
1) Yes.
2) It would depend on what form the familiar takes, but probably.
3) Yes, but that isn’t the action required to use a spell storing item. But it can use the spell storing item too, because the spell storing item description says it can.
4) No. The familiar would be “producing the spell’s effect” but not casting the spell. The distinction is relevant: for example, a spell storing item’s effect can’t be counterspelled, because the creature isn’t actually casting a spell.
4) I was meaning that on the familiar's turn. He produces the spell "scorching ray" and hits a target. Giving him a way to attack, essentially. That's why I added the quotation marks.
Spell storing item isn’t a magic item. Why would the use of magic items matter?
It is absolutely an item, and it is absolutely magic, so I'm pretty sure it's a magic item. That it's found as a class feature instead of the DMG's Magic Items section isn't really relevant.
According to the newly updated Sage Advice Compendium, the action to activate an SSI directly corresponds to the "Use an Object" action.
1. Give your SSI with Scorching Ray to someone with Haste
2. Profit
Thanks for pointing that out! I didn’t know it had been addressed in the SAC. That’s really dumb and inconsistent with how magic items work, so I have no intention of following this advice in my own game. But there you go!
SSI is not in fact a “magic item” in the traditional sense, which is why the [Tooltip Not Found] action works with this and nothing else.
what’s relevant is that no part of the feature calls it a magic item. The item infusion feature makes magic items. That being said, the feature lets you store the spells effect in a magic item so long as it meets the features other requirements.
SPELL-STORING ITEM At 11th level, you learn how to store a spell in an object. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one simple or martial weapon or one item that you can use as a spellcasting focus, and you store a spell in it, choosing a 1st- or 2nd-level spell from the artificer spell list that requires 1 action to cast (you needn't have it prepared). While holding the object, a creature can take an action to produce the spell's effect from it, using your spellcasting ability modifier. If the spell requires concentration, the creature must concentrate. The spell stays in the object until it's been used a number of times equal to twice your Intelligence modifier (minimum of twice) or until you use this feature again to store a spell in an object.
According to the newly updated Sage Advice Compendium, the action to activate an SSI directly corresponds to the "Use an Object" action.
1. Give your SSI with Scorching Ray to someone with Haste
2. Profit
Thanks for pointing that out! I didn’t know it had been addressed in the SAC. That’s really dumb and inconsistent with how magic items work, so I have no intention of following this advice in my own game. But there you go!
SSI is not in fact a “magic item” in the traditional sense, which is why the Use an Object action works with this and nothing else.
It may not explicitly be a "magic item" in the specific rules sense, but it is an item and it is magic. Common sense would suggest that its rules should operate in a manner consistent with the game category for magic items.
what’s relevant is that no part of the feature calls it a magic item. The item infusion feature makes magic items. That being said, the feature lets you store the spells effect in a magic item so long as it meets the features other requirements.
SPELL-STORING ITEM At 11th level, you learn how to store a spell in an object. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one simple or martial weapon or one item that you can use as a spellcasting focus, and you store a spell in it, choosing a 1st- or 2nd-level spell from the artificer spell list that requires 1 action to cast (you needn't have it prepared). While holding the object, a creature can take an action to produce the spell's effect from it, using your spellcasting ability modifier. If the spell requires concentration, the creature must concentrate. The spell stays in the object until it's been used a number of times equal to twice your Intelligence modifier (minimum of twice) or until you use this feature again to store a spell in an object.
It doesn't matter, dude. You said "Why would the use of magic items matter?" The answer is that it's an item and it's magic. Suggesting that that isn't relevant to the topic of "what would actually make sense" is unhinged.
I'm not saying the rule isn't what Crawford says it is. I'm saying it's dumb as heck.
If an Artificer uses Magical Tinkering on a Tiny object like a dagger, that doesn’t make it a “Magic Weapon” in the sense that it would overcome Magic resistance. This is just another example of Artificers being able to make things that are functionally identical to magic items without actually being magic items. 🤷♂️
If an Artificer uses Magical Tinkering on a Tiny object like a dagger, that doesn’t make it a “Magic Weapon” in the sense that it would overcome Magic resistance. This is just another example of Artificers being able to make things that are functionally identical to magic items without actually being magic items. 🤷♂️
I really feel like you're missing my point, but it doesn't really matter, haha.
If an Artificer uses Magical Tinkering on a Tiny object like a dagger, that doesn’t make it a “Magic Weapon” in the sense that it would overcome Magic resistance. This is just another example of Artificers being able to make things that are functionally identical to magic items without actually being magic items. 🤷♂️
I really feel like you're missing my point, but it doesn't really matter, haha.
I get your point. You think this is a dumb rule. You think that the SSI should be treated the same as any other magic item. You intend to treat it as such at your table. I understand your point quite clearly.
I think you misunderstood my point. But it doesn’t matter, haha.
All I’m saying is that there’s clear intent and explanation on what the feature does. It’s super wordy. it’s a player character feature. Just doesn’t seem right to take a bold “not at my table!” Response to something that really isn’t an issue in any way.
The main question is, "what is the action for the spell storing item?" I have already read the sage advice and it seems that it is the " use object action" but it is not said out right.
" When holding the item a creature CAN TAKE AN ACTION to produce the spell effect." This is the ability text I am referring to.
Okay here is the scenario, artillerist artificer with pact of the chain warlock. 1 )Can the artificer put scorching ray into the focus? 2) can a pact of the chain familiar hold the item? 3) can the familiar take the "use object" action on its turn? 4) does this mean the familiar "cast" scorching ray as it's own action?
It’s not a general action. It’s a specific action granted by the spell storing item.
So for your questions:
1) Yes.
2) It would depend on what form the familiar takes, but probably.
3) Yes, but that isn’t the action required to use a spell storing item. But it can use the spell storing item too, because the spell storing item description says it can.
4) No. The familiar would be “producing the spell’s effect” but not casting the spell. The distinction is relevant: for example, a spell storing item’s effect can’t be counterspelled, because the creature isn’t actually casting a spell.
According to the newly updated Sage Advice Compendium, the action to activate an SSI directly corresponds to the "Use an Object" action.
1. Give your SSI with Scorching Ray to someone with Haste
2. Profit
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
Thanks for pointing that out! I didn’t know it had been addressed in the SAC. That’s really dumb and inconsistent with how magic items work, so I have no intention of following this advice in my own game. But there you go!
4) I was meaning that on the familiar's turn. He produces the spell "scorching ray" and hits a target. Giving him a way to attack, essentially. That's why I added the quotation marks.
Spell storing item isn’t a magic item. Why would the use of magic items matter?
It is absolutely an item, and it is absolutely magic, so I'm pretty sure it's a magic item. That it's found as a class feature instead of the DMG's Magic Items section isn't really relevant.
SSI is not in fact a “magic item” in the traditional sense, which is why the [Tooltip Not Found] action works with this and nothing else.
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what’s relevant is that no part of the feature calls it a magic item. The item infusion feature makes magic items. That being said, the feature lets you store the spells effect in a magic item so long as it meets the features other requirements.
SPELL-STORING ITEM
At 11th level, you learn how to store a spell in an object. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one simple or martial weapon or one item that you can use as a spellcasting focus, and you store a spell in it, choosing a 1st- or 2nd-level spell from the artificer spell list that requires 1 action to cast (you needn't have it prepared).
While holding the object, a creature can take an action to produce the spell's effect from it, using your spellcasting ability modifier. If the spell requires concentration, the creature must concentrate. The spell stays in the object until it's been used a number of times equal to twice your Intelligence modifier (minimum of twice) or until you use this feature again to store a spell in an object.
It may not explicitly be a "magic item" in the specific rules sense, but it is an item and it is magic. Common sense would suggest that its rules should operate in a manner consistent with the game category for magic items.
It doesn't matter, dude. You said "Why would the use of magic items matter?" The answer is that it's an item and it's magic. Suggesting that that isn't relevant to the topic of "what would actually make sense" is unhinged.
I'm not saying the rule isn't what Crawford says it is. I'm saying it's dumb as heck.
If an Artificer uses Magical Tinkering on a Tiny object like a dagger, that doesn’t make it a “Magic Weapon” in the sense that it would overcome Magic resistance. This is just another example of Artificers being able to make things that are functionally identical to magic items without actually being magic items. 🤷♂️
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I really feel like you're missing my point, but it doesn't really matter, haha.
I get your point. You think this is a dumb rule. You think that the SSI should be treated the same as any other magic item. You intend to treat it as such at your table. I understand your point quite clearly.
I think you misunderstood my point. But it doesn’t matter, haha.
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Come on, man, there's no need to be rude. We're all friends here.
All I’m saying is that there’s clear intent and explanation on what the feature does. It’s super wordy. it’s a player character feature. Just doesn’t seem right to take a bold “not at my table!” Response to something that really isn’t an issue in any way.
That was kinda my point. Fair ‘nuff?
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