Greetings fellow adventurers! Today I come seeking guidance on the RAW for the eldritch invocation Thirsting Blade and how it applies to held actions.
Now, the rules state that with this invocation, "You can attack with your pact weapon twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn."
But, and this crux of this post, does this apply to held actions as well?
Because I've often heard it ruled that a held action is essentially declaring your action to be in reaction to a agreed upon stimulus (i.e., I hold eldritch blast until I see an enemy walk through the door).
So, would this mean that a Hexblade who holds her melee attack action would get two attacks when the condition for her reaction is met?
Thanks in advance for your input, and may the chests you find be forever bereft of tongues and teeth.
The key is the phrase "[...] whenever you take the Attack action on your turn [...]". When you use your Reaction to complete the action you readied - you're extremely unlikely to be using it on your own turn. So no - the Extra Attack and Thirsting Blade features do not function with held actions (in the vast majority of cases). You get one attack.
Edit: I agree with the others - the most important bit is the "on your turn". I've edited my post to reflect that.
Can't find any reason why you can't do that. It says you ready your action, in this case you ready the Attack action which allows you to attack twice. So you attack twice when the trigger occurs.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
They actually aren't explicitly different. 4yulming4 and m4flyer (what's with the 4's, guys???) are correct, when you read it closely Ready allows you to prepare "the action" you will take as a reaction, which would include Attack, [Tooltip Not Found], [Tooltip Not Found], etc.
So why do we normally say it isn't a full Attack action when explaining how this works? It's actually us paraphrasing the right result the wrong way, in an attempt to communicate why the Extra Attack feature won't grant more attacks on a readied Attack action. Extra Attack provides more attacks " whenever you take the Attack action on your turn," and a readied Attack action is not "on your turn," so Extra Attack does not apply.
Thirsting Blade suffers the same limitation as Extra Attack:
You can attack with your pact weapon twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
Yes, you are taking an Attack action. No, you are not taking it on your turn. Thus, you do not get an extra attack from Thirsting Blade.
They actually aren't explicitly different. 4yulming4 and m4flyer (what's with the 4's, guys???) are correct, when you read it closely Ready allows you to prepare "the action" you will take as a reaction, which would include Attack, Cast a Spell, Use an Object, etc.
So why do we normally say it isn't a full Attack action when explaining how this works? It's actually us paraphrasing the right result the wrong way, in an attempt to communicate why the Extra Attack feature won't grant more attacks on a readied Attack action. Extra Attack provides more attacks " whenever you take the Attack action on your turn," and a readied Attack action is not "on your turn," so Extra Attack does not apply.
Thirsting Blade suffers the same limitation as Extra Attack:
You can attack with your pact weapon twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
Yes, you are taking an Attack action. No, you are not taking it on your turn. Thus, you do not get an extra attack from Thirsting Blade.
Right conclusion, wrong methodology. Ready is a wholly distinct action from Attack. They're explicitly listed as such.
Nope. Plain language, “choose the action” you will take. The Attack action is the action you are choosing when you ready an attack for off-turn. And, it leads to the correct operation of features, no problems are created.
Further proof? There’s no WAY (absent another feature granting you one) to attack other than taking the Attack, it is by definition what a creature is doing when it attacks something, absent another special feature. “I’m using my action to attack, but not taking the Attack action” is nonsense gibberish in 5E.
And, Extra Attack, Thirsting Blade, and others have that “when you take the Attack action ON YOUR TURN” limiting language, which creates a clear inference that there must also be some way to take the Attack action NOT on your turn, where the feature would not apply. Extra Attack doesn’t say “when you take the Attack Action with your own character” or any other bizarre thing, because there’s clearly no way you ever would be in a position to be using the Attack action with someone else’s character. The fact that it warns you only Attack actions on your own turn get Extra Attack acknowledges you can take them not on your turn somehow too.
Nope. Plain language, “choose the action” you will take. The Attack action is the action you are choosing when you ready an attack for off-turn. And, it leads to the correct operation of features, no problems are created.
Further proof? There’s no WAY (absent another feature granting you one) to attack other than taking the Attack, it is by definition what a creature is doing when it attacks something, absent another special feature. “I’m using my action to attack, but not taking the Attack action” is nonsense gibberish in 5E.
And, Extra Attack, Thirsting Blade, and others have that “when you take the Attack action ON YOUR TURN” limiting language, which creates a clear inference that there must also be some way to take the Attack action NOT on your turn, where the feature would not apply. Extra Attack doesn’t say “when you take the Attack Action with your own character” or any other bizarre thing, because there’s clearly no way you ever would be in a position to be using the Attack action with someone else’s character. The fact that it warns you only Attack actions on your own turn get Extra Attack acknowledges you can take them not on your turn somehow too.
The action taken need not be any of the other 9 actions. And none of that changes the fact that Ready is listed both separately and alongside the other actions, clearly marking it so.
Also, now you decide to embrace plain language? When did this revelation occur?
You can't really argue here that because Ready is listed next to the other actions, thus you cannot use ready to make any of those actions. Especially since it's listed next to Cast A Spell and literally every action possible. Your argument is that Ready doesn't allow you to take a action because it says "take a action" in the same section as "Actions"?
Edit: Doesn't even matter either way, since due to how Extra Attack is worded both interpretations technically lead to the same result. Although I would be sort of concerned if you didn't allow someone to ready a Use an Object action, since that's literally one of the examples provided for how to use the Ready action.
You can't really argue here that because Ready is listed next to the other actions, thus you cannot use ready to make any of those actions. Especially since it's listed next to Cast A Spell and literally every action possible. Your argument is that Ready doesn't allow you to take a action because it says "take a action" in the same section as "Actions"?
Edit: Doesn't even matter either way, since due to how Extra Attack is worded both interpretations technically lead to the same result. Although I would be sort of concerned if you didn't allow someone to ready a Use an Object action, since that's literally one of the examples provided for how to use the Ready action.
The point I've been arguing is that Ready is its own distinct action, which CC erroneously disagrees on. What the action does is irrelevant. It exists and does something different than every other action.
The Ready action is its own action, but when you use your reaction you're taking whichever action you had prepared. Hence if you readied the Attack action, you are in fact taking the Attack action when you use your reaction. So Chicken_Champ is correct about the reason this doesn't work* being that you can't use Extra Attack/Thirsting Blade when it's not your turn.
*If you want to get really precise you can do this if the trigger occurs during your turn. That usually won't happen unless another creature uses a reaction during during your turn, since the whole point of readying actions is to wait for some circumstance beyond your direct control.
The Ready action is its own action, but when you use your reaction you're taking whichever action you had prepared. Hence if you readied the Attack action, you are in fact taking the Attack action when you use your reaction. So Chicken_Champ is correct about the reason this doesn't work* being that you can't use Extra Attack/Thirsting Blade when it's not your turn.
*If you want to get really precise you can do this if the trigger occurs during your turn. That usually won't happen unless another creature uses a reaction during during your turn, since the whole point of readying actions is to wait for some circumstance beyond your direct control.
This.
Jounichi, your point is correct: Ready IS an action, but your conclusion is wrong. CC is correct in that action you ready is ALSO an action (which you are taking as a reaction).
Dodge. You'd get the same benefits using the action immediately.
Dash or Disengage, which won't benefit you on someone else's turn.
Disengage would definitely be pointless - but you can ready a Dash ("you gain extra movement for the current turn").
The way I understand it, Dash doesn't actually move you - it's a kind of "self buff" that increases your movement speed. If you ready Dash, after the trigger your movement will be increased but you won't be able to move because it's not your turn. Then comes your turn - which is definitely not "current" which means it got wasted.
Dodge. You'd get the same benefits using the action immediately.
Dash or Disengage, which won't benefit you on someone else's turn.
Disengage would definitely be pointless - but you can ready a Dash ("you gain extra movement for the current turn").
Yeah, but you can't ready both an action and movement. It's one or the other. So you ready the Dash, but that only does something if, on that same turn, you're compelled (or otherwise allowed) to use your movement, which usually consumes your reaction anyway.
Dodge. You'd get the same benefits using the action immediately.
Dash or Disengage, which won't benefit you on someone else's turn.
Except that Readying a Dash action is how you would get movement from the Ready action.
In all cases, the Ready action allows you to choose what action you will take in response to the trigger.
No, Ready specifically says that you can take an action or move up to your speed:
Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your speed in response to it
This is how you move using Ready. Dash doesn't move you - if you read it carefully, by spending an action on your turn, you gain extra movement. As simple as that. You still have to move - I won't say "use move action" because there is no such thing. In 5e you can move and take an action. By taking the Dash action, you can move more.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Greetings fellow adventurers! Today I come seeking guidance on the RAW for the eldritch invocation Thirsting Blade and how it applies to held actions.
Now, the rules state that with this invocation, "You can attack with your pact weapon twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn."
But, and this crux of this post, does this apply to held actions as well?
Because I've often heard it ruled that a held action is essentially declaring your action to be in reaction to a agreed upon stimulus (i.e., I hold eldritch blast until I see an enemy walk through the door).
So, would this mean that a Hexblade who holds her melee attack action would get two attacks when the condition for her reaction is met?
Thanks in advance for your input, and may the chests you find be forever bereft of tongues and teeth.
The key is the phrase "[...] whenever you take the Attack action on your turn [...]". When you use your Reaction to complete the action you readied - you're extremely unlikely to be using it on your own turn. So no - the Extra Attack and Thirsting Blade features do not function with held actions (in the vast majority of cases). You get one attack.
Edit:
I agree with the others - the most important bit is the "on your turn". I've edited my post to reflect that.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Can't find any reason why you can't do that. It says you ready your action, in this case you ready the Attack action which allows you to attack twice. So you attack twice when the trigger occurs.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
No. As Emmber said, the Ready action and the Attack action are explicitly different.
Also, a reaction that triggers on someone else's turn is not "on your turn".
So, it is not possible for two separate reasons.
They actually aren't explicitly different. 4yulming4 and m4flyer (what's with the 4's, guys???) are correct, when you read it closely Ready allows you to prepare "the action" you will take as a reaction, which would include Attack, [Tooltip Not Found], [Tooltip Not Found], etc.
So why do we normally say it isn't a full Attack action when explaining how this works? It's actually us paraphrasing the right result the wrong way, in an attempt to communicate why the Extra Attack feature won't grant more attacks on a readied Attack action. Extra Attack provides more attacks " whenever you take the Attack action on your turn," and a readied Attack action is not "on your turn," so Extra Attack does not apply.
Thirsting Blade suffers the same limitation as Extra Attack:
Yes, you are taking an Attack action. No, you are not taking it on your turn. Thus, you do not get an extra attack from Thirsting Blade.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Right conclusion, wrong methodology. Ready is a wholly distinct action from Attack. They're explicitly listed as such.
Actions in Combat
Nope. Plain language, “choose the action” you will take. The Attack action is the action you are choosing when you ready an attack for off-turn. And, it leads to the correct operation of features, no problems are created.
Further proof? There’s no WAY (absent another feature granting you one) to attack other than taking the Attack, it is by definition what a creature is doing when it attacks something, absent another special feature. “I’m using my action to attack, but not taking the Attack action” is nonsense gibberish in 5E.
And, Extra Attack, Thirsting Blade, and others have that “when you take the Attack action ON YOUR TURN” limiting language, which creates a clear inference that there must also be some way to take the Attack action NOT on your turn, where the feature would not apply. Extra Attack doesn’t say “when you take the Attack Action with your own character” or any other bizarre thing, because there’s clearly no way you ever would be in a position to be using the Attack action with someone else’s character. The fact that it warns you only Attack actions on your own turn get Extra Attack acknowledges you can take them not on your turn somehow too.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
The action taken need not be any of the other 9 actions. And none of that changes the fact that Ready is listed both separately and alongside the other actions, clearly marking it so.
Also, now you decide to embrace plain language? When did this revelation occur?
Sorry but I agree with Chicken_Champ here.
You can't really argue here that because Ready is listed next to the other actions, thus you cannot use ready to make any of those actions. Especially since it's listed next to Cast A Spell and literally every action possible. Your argument is that Ready doesn't allow you to take a action because it says "take a action" in the same section as "Actions"?
Edit: Doesn't even matter either way, since due to how Extra Attack is worded both interpretations technically lead to the same result. Although I would be sort of concerned if you didn't allow someone to ready a Use an Object action, since that's literally one of the examples provided for how to use the Ready action.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
The point I've been arguing is that Ready is its own distinct action, which CC erroneously disagrees on. What the action does is irrelevant. It exists and does something different than every other action.
The Ready action is its own action, but when you use your reaction you're taking whichever action you had prepared. Hence if you readied the Attack action, you are in fact taking the Attack action when you use your reaction. So Chicken_Champ is correct about the reason this doesn't work* being that you can't use Extra Attack/Thirsting Blade when it's not your turn.
*If you want to get really precise you can do this if the trigger occurs during your turn. That usually won't happen unless another creature uses a reaction during during your turn, since the whole point of readying actions is to wait for some circumstance beyond your direct control.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
This.
Jounichi, your point is correct: Ready IS an action, but your conclusion is wrong. CC is correct in that action you ready is ALSO an action (which you are taking as a reaction).
This all does lead to an interesting - and completely useless - ability to Ready the Ready action.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Yeah. Funnily, this is technically possible.
It wouldn't be useless if you have multiple reactions somehow, but it would still be impractical.
Other fun and pointless uses of the Ready action:
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Except that Readying a Dash action is how you would get movement from the Ready action.
In all cases, the Ready action allows you to choose what action you will take in response to the trigger.
Disengage would definitely be pointless - but you can ready a Dash ("you gain extra movement for the current turn").
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
The way I understand it, Dash doesn't actually move you - it's a kind of "self buff" that increases your movement speed. If you ready Dash, after the trigger your movement will be increased but you won't be able to move because it's not your turn. Then comes your turn - which is definitely not "current" which means it got wasted.
Yeah, but you can't ready both an action and movement. It's one or the other. So you ready the Dash, but that only does something if, on that same turn, you're compelled (or otherwise allowed) to use your movement, which usually consumes your reaction anyway.
No, Ready specifically says that you can take an action or move up to your speed:
This is how you move using Ready. Dash doesn't move you - if you read it carefully, by spending an action on your turn, you gain extra movement. As simple as that. You still have to move - I won't say "use move action" because there is no such thing. In 5e you can move and take an action. By taking the Dash action, you can move more.