I have tried to research this on line, and read a lot of emotion alongside very little fact. I know that Table Rules vary and that a DMs opinion is final regardless of what the rules say. But I would like to discuss this topic based on the actual rules in the book if possible. I can see pros and cons for allowing it, but am I missing anything in the rules, has there been an official ruling on the subject, etc
As I see it
Page 107 Players manual Pact of the Blade says "You can choose the form that this melee weapon takes each time you create it (see chapter 5 for weapon options)" This refers to Chapter 5 in the same way the section Pact Magic, on the same page, refers to chapters 10 and 11. "See chapter 10 for the general rules of spellcasting and chapter 11 for the Warlock spell list."
If anything the Pact Magic section is worded stronger than the Pact of the Blade section, as it is a separate sentence rather than a qualification in brackets, and it refers to "THE Warlock spell list." whereas the Pact magic section refers to just plain "weapon options)" with out a THE.
So if are allowed spells from Xaanathar's Guide to Everything then there is strong precedence for allowing Adamantine Melee Weapons to be summoned by Warlocks' Pact of the Blade"
For me "the form" it takes is whether or not its a sword or axe or club or glaive or what have you. It does not say anything about the material the pact weapon is made from. If you were permitted to make it from an unusual substance (adamantine, silver, etc.) than it would say that. Since it doesn't say it, it doesn't do it. People can probably split hairs all day over the difference between being magical vs. "counts as magical" but I don't think there's anything that allows you to make it from something unusual.
As far as the "the," there is only one warlock spell list, so its "the" list. There are more than one melee weapon options, and you can choose a different one every time, so there isn't a "the" options. It's a grammar thing, not a rules thing.
And I'm not sure what you're getting at with the XGE reference.
Role play is about exploring boundaries, every game we do things that aren't specifically allowed. So I'd say it is more about if it doesn't well maybe you can :)
If your DM let's you do it, good for you. Don't expect any sane DM to let you abuse the "common language" that is standard for 5e rule books.
If adamantine or slivered weapons were permitted by default, that would make the entire line of standard weapons obsolete, which obvious isn't what is intended. Having a magic weapon is benefit enough.
Sorry, this was a mistake, I was looking for rule interpretation, rather than multiple statements of "cos you can't".
I have been looking at this further since I posted and have answered my own question.
The pact of the blade states "you can choose the form that this melee weapon takes", so the answer is you can only control the FORM (shape) of the weapon, not its composition.
This could be an interesting plot twist, could you be handed a paper sword :)
Role play is about exploring boundaries, every game we do things that aren't specifically allowed. So I'd say it is more about if it doesn't well maybe you can :)
That's not how it works. There are two basic pillars within the rules. 1: You can only do what the rules say you can do - and 2: The DM can do anything. So sure - if your DM let's it happen then it can happen. Otherwise - the rules have to explicitly allow it.
I mean - put it this way - are you going to let a level 1 character shapechange into a dinosaur? The rules don't say you can't...
Role play is about exploring boundaries, every game we do things that aren't specifically allowed. So I'd say it is more about if it doesn't well maybe you can :)
That's not how it works. There are two basic pillars within the rules. 1: You can only do what the rules say you can do - and 2: The DM can do anything. So sure - if your DM let's it happen then it can happen. Otherwise - the rules have to explicitly allow it.
I mean - put it this way - are you going to let a level 1 character shapechange into a dinosaur? The rules don't say you can't...
I agree with you, to a degree, that's why I was looking at the rules, and if you look above I have managed to answer my own question, from the rules.
However, the rules require interpretation and in interpreting them you follow precedence of how similar rules have been interpreted. So, in answering the person you quoted, I picked up that you only have control of the form of the weapon. Question answered.
Thankyou for your help in getting there
PS I'll pass on commenting about the dinosaur comment if you don't mind :)
I would say as written you can't conjure a silvered or adamantine weapon. In the interest of fun, I wouldn't be opposed to allowing a Bladelock to create one, IF they had the appropriate amount of silver or adamantine when they create it(and they can't choose both, it's either/or). I would say that the metal is consumed in the conjuration, and the effect lasts until the Bladelock chooses a new form for their weapon, at which point they'd need another supply of the metal. If they merely dismiss the weapon and then re-summon it in the same form, it would still be silvered/adamantine. I would make it part of the Improved Pact Weapon invocation.
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I have tried to research this on line, and read a lot of emotion alongside very little fact. I know that Table Rules vary and that a DMs opinion is final regardless of what the rules say. But I would like to discuss this topic based on the actual rules in the book if possible. I can see pros and cons for allowing it, but am I missing anything in the rules, has there been an official ruling on the subject, etc
As I see it
Page 107 Players manual Pact of the Blade says "You can choose the form that this melee weapon takes each time you create it (see chapter 5 for weapon options)" This refers to Chapter 5 in the same way the section Pact Magic, on the same page, refers to chapters 10 and 11. "See chapter 10 for the general rules of spellcasting and chapter 11 for the Warlock spell list."
If anything the Pact Magic section is worded stronger than the Pact of the Blade section, as it is a separate sentence rather than a qualification in brackets, and it refers to "THE Warlock spell list." whereas the Pact magic section refers to just plain "weapon options)" with out a THE.
So if are allowed spells from Xaanathar's Guide to Everything then there is strong precedence for allowing Adamantine Melee Weapons to be summoned by Warlocks' Pact of the Blade"
Opinions? :) :) :)
Dum Vivimus vivamus
I read it more restrictively than that.
For me "the form" it takes is whether or not its a sword or axe or club or glaive or what have you. It does not say anything about the material the pact weapon is made from. If you were permitted to make it from an unusual substance (adamantine, silver, etc.) than it would say that. Since it doesn't say it, it doesn't do it. People can probably split hairs all day over the difference between being magical vs. "counts as magical" but I don't think there's anything that allows you to make it from something unusual.
As far as the "the," there is only one warlock spell list, so its "the" list. There are more than one melee weapon options, and you can choose a different one every time, so there isn't a "the" options. It's a grammar thing, not a rules thing.
And I'm not sure what you're getting at with the XGE reference.
Exactly. If it could make adamantine or silvered weapons it would say so. It doesn't - so it can't.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Role play is about exploring boundaries, every game we do things that aren't specifically allowed. So I'd say it is more about if it doesn't well maybe you can :)
Dum Vivimus vivamus
Semantically "The" implies one and only
Spells from XGtE are allowed to be used, so why not melee weapons from XGtE
You are allowed to create a melee weapon, an Adamantine Long Sword is a Melee Weapon as stated on page 78 of XGtE
Dum Vivimus vivamus
If your DM let's you do it, good for you. Don't expect any sane DM to let you abuse the "common language" that is standard for 5e rule books.
If adamantine or slivered weapons were permitted by default, that would make the entire line of standard weapons obsolete, which obvious isn't what is intended. Having a magic weapon is benefit enough.
Sorry, this was a mistake, I was looking for rule interpretation, rather than multiple statements of "cos you can't".
I have been looking at this further since I posted and have answered my own question.
The pact of the blade states "you can choose the form that this melee weapon takes", so the answer is you can only control the FORM (shape) of the weapon, not its composition.
This could be an interesting plot twist, could you be handed a paper sword :)
Thanks for you time
Dum Vivimus vivamus
That's not how it works. There are two basic pillars within the rules. 1: You can only do what the rules say you can do - and 2: The DM can do anything. So sure - if your DM let's it happen then it can happen. Otherwise - the rules have to explicitly allow it.
I mean - put it this way - are you going to let a level 1 character shapechange into a dinosaur? The rules don't say you can't...
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
I agree with you, to a degree, that's why I was looking at the rules, and if you look above I have managed to answer my own question, from the rules.
However, the rules require interpretation and in interpreting them you follow precedence of how similar rules have been interpreted. So, in answering the person you quoted, I picked up that you only have control of the form of the weapon. Question answered.
Thankyou for your help in getting there
PS I'll pass on commenting about the dinosaur comment if you don't mind :)
Dum Vivimus vivamus
I would say as written you can't conjure a silvered or adamantine weapon. In the interest of fun, I wouldn't be opposed to allowing a Bladelock to create one, IF they had the appropriate amount of silver or adamantine when they create it(and they can't choose both, it's either/or). I would say that the metal is consumed in the conjuration, and the effect lasts until the Bladelock chooses a new form for their weapon, at which point they'd need another supply of the metal. If they merely dismiss the weapon and then re-summon it in the same form, it would still be silvered/adamantine. I would make it part of the Improved Pact Weapon invocation.