I've tried to search in the internet a little bit about this, but had no luck. I guess Eyes of the Dark casts Darkness at level 2, if an enemy or someone in your party casts daylight, it will obviously be dispelled.
Two questions:
If I cast darkness at a higher level will I still be able to see, because of the previous use of the feature?
Or, is it possible to upcast darkness with the Eyes of the Dark feature?
A spell cast without a spell slot is always cast at its lowest level unless a rule says otherwise. Eyes of the Dark doesn't say otherwise, and you can only see through the darkness if you cast the spell using spell points.
Darkness is explicitly written that casting it as a higher level does little to nothing. As InquisitiveCoder says: "A spell cast without a spell slot is always cast at its lowest level unless a rule says otherwise"
Daylight isn't just a hard counter for a class feature, it's also a hard counter for a racial feature. A Tiefling Shadow Sorcerer of 3rd level can cast Darkness from her Racial Ability, her Class Ability, or her Spell Slots. That said only the Class Ability would allow her to see through it!
Darkness is hard countered by Daylight, no matter the spell slot used. A 17th level character casting Darkness with a 9th level slot will still be dispelled by a 3rd level Daylight. On the other hand I believe (and if I'm wrong InquisitiveCoder will tell me). I believe if a 17th lvl caster casts Darkness using a 9th level slot it would count as 9th level for Dispel Magic or Counterspell.
the 2015 & 2017 erratas states on page 9 (2015) and 14 (2017): Can you cast darkness with a higher level slot to end a spell of 3rd level or higher that creates light? No. The darkness spell can dispel only a light-creating spell of 2nd level or lower, no matter what spell slot is used for darkness. Similarly, the daylight spell can dispel only a darkness-creating spell of 3rd level or lower, regardless of the spell slot used.
I agree with you with the last sentence, I also belive it counts as a higher level spell for Dispel or Counter, but the other thing is that I believe that if you cast it at 4th lvl a 3rd lvl daylight wouldnt dispel it. But well that can be ruled by a DM
Something to keep in mind - when was the last time you saw a monster with Daylight prepared? In theory, the DM can hard counter you with an anti-magic field just as easily. Realistically, that's very rare.
And that's why you should never judge something by how something looks in a theoretical white room. I mean, you might as well be arguing that Daylight hard counters all of a Way of the Shadow Monk's abilities because there's too much light and it removes any good shadows that you can teleport to. That doesn't make the shadowdancer any less nifty or useful.
I mean, heck. Instead of worrying about Daylight, you should be worried about enemy casters with the far more common Counterspell or Dispel Magic. Those hard counter a lot of different abilities across every caster in the game, and at a far better range than Daylight - Daylight is still a touch-range spell, and you can just set up your Darkness outside of the radius. Shadow sorcerers are still walking artillery after all, who have the best nova damage of any caster in the game, and the only casters that can reliably inflict disadvantage on enemy saves.
Daylight is still a touch-range spell, and you can just set up your Darkness outside of the radius.
I agree with everything else you said but Daylight has a range of 60 feet and there can't be any overlap so you'd have to place the center of Darkness at least 20 + 60 feet away from the center of Daylight. That's huge. It's very likely the terrain would get in the way at those distances.
I don't see this as an issue that makes the Sorcerer underpowered. This is one of the edgiest edge cases to ever have edged.
A single bonus to the class feature can be hard countered by a 3rd level spell or any Counterspell or Dispel Magic. It's really not different from any other ability that is a spell.
Plus Daylight isn't a very common spell. I used to prepare it a lot in 3rd Edition, but in 3.5 Underdark Creatures like Drow treated the Daylight spell as daylight and took penalties. Which was amazing. Now it just gets rid of normal and Magical Darkness. That said if you're going to be fighting a Black Dragon, Drow and/or Devils... it's a good spell in your arsenal, since they use it commonly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I've tried to search in the internet a little bit about this, but had no luck. I guess Eyes of the Dark casts Darkness at level 2, if an enemy or someone in your party casts daylight, it will obviously be dispelled.
Two questions:
If I cast darkness at a higher level will I still be able to see, because of the previous use of the feature?
Or, is it possible to upcast darkness with the Eyes of the Dark feature?
Thanks
A spell cast without a spell slot is always cast at its lowest level unless a rule says otherwise. Eyes of the Dark doesn't say otherwise, and you can only see through the darkness if you cast the spell using spell points.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
So daylight practically counters a class feature? wow
Darkness is explicitly written that casting it as a higher level does little to nothing.
As InquisitiveCoder says: "A spell cast without a spell slot is always cast at its lowest level unless a rule says otherwise"
Daylight isn't just a hard counter for a class feature, it's also a hard counter for a racial feature.
A Tiefling Shadow Sorcerer of 3rd level can cast Darkness from her Racial Ability, her Class Ability, or her Spell Slots. That said only the Class Ability would allow her to see through it!
Darkness is hard countered by Daylight, no matter the spell slot used. A 17th level character casting Darkness with a 9th level slot will still be dispelled by a 3rd level Daylight.
On the other hand I believe (and if I'm wrong InquisitiveCoder will tell me). I believe if a 17th lvl caster casts Darkness using a 9th level slot it would count as 9th level for Dispel Magic or Counterspell.
Edited per Sixet's comment:
https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/SA_Compendium.pdf
http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf
the 2015 & 2017 erratas states on page 9 (2015) and 14 (2017):
Can you cast darkness with a higher level slot to end a spell of 3rd level or higher that creates light?
No. The darkness spell can dispel only a light-creating spell of 2nd level or lower, no matter what spell slot is used for darkness. Similarly, the daylight spell can dispel only a darkness-creating spell of 3rd level or lower, regardless of the spell slot used.
I agree with you with the last sentence, I also belive it counts as a higher level spell for Dispel or Counter, but the other thing is that I believe that if you cast it at 4th lvl a 3rd lvl daylight wouldnt dispel it. But well that can be ruled by a DM
Something to keep in mind - when was the last time you saw a monster with Daylight prepared? In theory, the DM can hard counter you with an anti-magic field just as easily. Realistically, that's very rare.
True but all this is just theorical, it just makes me feel that sorcerers are very underpowered
And that's why you should never judge something by how something looks in a theoretical white room. I mean, you might as well be arguing that Daylight hard counters all of a Way of the Shadow Monk's abilities because there's too much light and it removes any good shadows that you can teleport to. That doesn't make the shadowdancer any less nifty or useful.
I mean, heck. Instead of worrying about Daylight, you should be worried about enemy casters with the far more common Counterspell or Dispel Magic. Those hard counter a lot of different abilities across every caster in the game, and at a far better range than Daylight - Daylight is still a touch-range spell, and you can just set up your Darkness outside of the radius. Shadow sorcerers are still walking artillery after all, who have the best nova damage of any caster in the game, and the only casters that can reliably inflict disadvantage on enemy saves.
I agree with everything else you said but Daylight has a range of 60 feet and there can't be any overlap so you'd have to place the center of Darkness at least 20 + 60 feet away from the center of Daylight. That's huge. It's very likely the terrain would get in the way at those distances.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
fair enough, I misread the spell.
I don't see this as an issue that makes the Sorcerer underpowered. This is one of the edgiest edge cases to ever have edged.
A single bonus to the class feature can be hard countered by a 3rd level spell or any Counterspell or Dispel Magic. It's really not different from any other ability that is a spell.
Plus Daylight isn't a very common spell. I used to prepare it a lot in 3rd Edition, but in 3.5 Underdark Creatures like Drow treated the Daylight spell as daylight and took penalties. Which was amazing. Now it just gets rid of normal and Magical Darkness. That said if you're going to be fighting a Black Dragon, Drow and/or Devils... it's a good spell in your arsenal, since they use it commonly.