It seems to me that there is a bit of a hole in the fact that there is not an intelligent undead monster version of all the classes. Sorcerers and Wizards become liches, Paladins become Death Knights, Clerics have the Mummy Lord through old lore stuff. We also now have the Lichen Lich for druids from Candlekeep. Third party wise we have Pact Liches, Hierophant Liches, and Virtuoso Liches for Warlocks, Clerics, and Bard respectively from Kobold Press' monster books.
I want to come up with ideas for all the other classes. You can obviously apply vampire to anything. Barbarian Fighter Monk Rogue Ranger Artificer
This is just a fun theory crafting thread. no concrete mechanics unless a great idea comes forth.
It seems to me that there is a bit of a hole in the fact that there is not an intelligent undead monster version of all the classes.
Well, it really isn't. Undeads are more a racial description than it is a class description but it's a bit weird since it's monsters that we talk about. A mummified ranger would be both a ranger and a mummy, for example.
It seems to me that there is a bit of a hole in the fact that there is not an intelligent undead monster version of all the classes.
Well, it really isn't. Undeads are more a racial description than it is a class description but it's a bit weird since it's monsters that we talk about. A mummified ranger would be both a ranger and a mummy, for example.
You're right, the high level undead that have origins similar to PC character classes are because those classes have a clear path to "prestige undeath" (necromancy, death gods, failing or infernal oaths). But I think this is a fun thought experiment. I once played an "alternate future" dungeon, where it turned out the Mummy Lord was actually a "possible future" of one of the PCs (sorcerer with fiendish origins, homebrew) and the major denizens of the pyramid were undead interpretations of higher power versions of the rest of the party. It wasn't clear until they fought the undead tortle....
Just had a moment to dig through my old books. In the 1E Fiend Folio, there's a Skeleton Warrior that is said to be 'prestige undead' version of a powerful fighter.
And a mummy ranger would obviously be a Mumm-Ra. Glad I could help.
Deathlocks are warlocks, a fighter would probably be a sword wraith commander, a skull lord is a sorcerer, a boneclaw is essentially a rogue or shadow monk, and an eidolon could be a barbarian.
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All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
To everyone who replied, thank you. However, I was more looking for coming up with new high level intelligent undead ideas, not just comparing classes to the middle tier undead. Basically for my next campaign I am making a villain group that is composed of all powerful undead and function like a shadow organization across the world. They have one of each class and I wanted to apply the "templates" of the high-tier undead to them.
To everyone who replied, thank you. However, I was more looking for coming up with new high level intelligent undead ideas, not just comparing classes to the middle tier undead. Basically for my next campaign I am making a villain group that is composed of all powerful undead and function like a shadow organization across the world. They have one of each class and I wanted to apply the "templates" of the high-tier undead to them.
If that's the case I would just start out with "basic" undead and give them more powers. How about a zombie barbarian? Why zombie and barbarian? No particular reason except that this zombie can really take a punch and gets *really* mad sometimes. Or maybe it was a barbarian when it was alive? Do you want a mummy druid? Just change the spells to be more in line with the druid spell list and add some shape shifting. Vampires can of course be all sorts of classes so you can go wild with them. :)
A super powered revenant for a fighter. They have died but refuse to stay down we could call it a remnant due to it’s single minded nature of completing the goal it was doing before it died.
The more I think about it, undead is too limiting for the final form of each class. It makes sense for a necromancer wizard to become a lich, and it there's irony in an undead form for paladins and clerics. But I really want a druid to become an awakened plant. A pact of the fiend warlock should become a fiend, and a pact of the great old one warlock should become an aberration. Draconic bloodline sorcerers could become full dragons. A fey seems like a good evolution for a ranger. Maybe a barbarian could become a giant.
clerics also had Huecuevas iirc. Also, just as a neutral outsider, i doubt an enemy party entirely made out of liches would be too fun to deal with. too many phylacteries to hunt down imo.
i also second whoever said artificers would be a construct rather than undead. makes no sense why a powerful would let himself become an undead when he could become a construct.
clerics would make most sense as a vampire servant of some evil god.
So I'll just headcanon/homebrew some of my own: (some of these were stolen from my own ttrpg i am building)
names can be changed if you wish
Ragewraith: undead high level barbarian who was too ******* angry to stay dead. constantly in rage and filled with overbearing hatred; good abilities include causing nearby hostiles to become overflowing with rage and attack everyone else. Also should hit REALLY hard in melee.
Transcendent: undead high level monk. stolen from the idea of some buddhist monks mummifying themselves. So this is the endgame: mummifying yourself, and then willing yourself to life again. I'm not too sure on the mechanics, but probably innate magic spellcasting, and also quivering palm and the like.
Left Hand: undead high level fiend pact warlock. this one should be interesting, like basically a half-fiend half-undead warlock, revived by his patron and basically having a utility they could never outlive. the name is a reference to the left-hand path, but if you want more fun, they could have one shriveled cursed hand (left hand) which can cast, and one relatively normal one, for wielding weapons. should also have fiend characteristics and abilities, like maybe being able to summon fiends without a spell slot.
Shadow of Death: undead high level rogue. so just a really high level shadow. invisibility, teleportation, hard to detect, just a shadow scaled up to CR 16 or higher.
Aptrganga: undead high level barbarian. name stolen from old norse meaning after-walker. The idea of this one is that a village or so finds an ancient berserkr that served them in life, and by way of magic, resurrected them to protect them or fulfill a quest. Ideally this character wouldn't be evil (god i hate the assumption that undead = evil, this is what playing dos2 does to you), maybe dragged along to kill an evil PC or just having a common motive. Abilities may include an ability to nullify magical resistances.
(some play on the word) Genius Loci: undead high level druid. shouldn't be an actual genius loci, but the idea is that a sufficiently powerful druid should become one with nature, even if they are undead. the idea is that the druid isn't just themselves, but also a localized patch of nature, but all controlled by it. no physical body either -- you gotta burn the whole place down to kill it. this is probably my favorite idea, even if i don't have a name. if you need some inspiration, check out Ragnorra's second form from Elder Evils (3.5e book) but imagine druidic.
Baneshee: sorry for the bad pun. undead high level bard. would work best for a bardy bard with focus on music playing, so basically an enemy support, with powerful buffs and debuffs in range, with spellcasting too. have fun getting your fighter disabled via ottos irresistible dance
For the other classes I suspect you can build a regular undead/vampire/whatever + class levels like in 3.5e but that's kinda boring. but its better than nothing i guess.
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"h"
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It seems to me that there is a bit of a hole in the fact that there is not an intelligent undead monster version of all the classes. Sorcerers and Wizards become liches, Paladins become Death Knights, Clerics have the Mummy Lord through old lore stuff. We also now have the Lichen Lich for druids from Candlekeep. Third party wise we have Pact Liches, Hierophant Liches, and Virtuoso Liches for Warlocks, Clerics, and Bard respectively from Kobold Press' monster books.
I want to come up with ideas for all the other classes. You can obviously apply vampire to anything.
Barbarian
Fighter
Monk
Rogue
Ranger
Artificer
This is just a fun theory crafting thread. no concrete mechanics unless a great idea comes forth.
An artificer would probably be some kind of Frankenstein, stitched together and still functioning through some weird science. I'd call it a Patchwork.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Artificer wouldn't have an undead one, they'd have a construct one. If it had to be undead; it'd be Brain-in-a-Jar.
Rogue is already halfway there with the Phantom, probably just becomes some sort of incorporeal apparition.
Monk, I'm thinking stat some denizen of the Mortal Kombat Netherrealm.
Ranger, some sort of Undead Treant?
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Well, it really isn't. Undeads are more a racial description than it is a class description but it's a bit weird since it's monsters that we talk about. A mummified ranger would be both a ranger and a mummy, for example.
You're right, the high level undead that have origins similar to PC character classes are because those classes have a clear path to "prestige undeath" (necromancy, death gods, failing or infernal oaths). But I think this is a fun thought experiment. I once played an "alternate future" dungeon, where it turned out the Mummy Lord was actually a "possible future" of one of the PCs (sorcerer with fiendish origins, homebrew) and the major denizens of the pyramid were undead interpretations of higher power versions of the rest of the party. It wasn't clear until they fought the undead tortle....
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Just had a moment to dig through my old books. In the 1E Fiend Folio, there's a Skeleton Warrior that is said to be 'prestige undead' version of a powerful fighter.
And a mummy ranger would obviously be a Mumm-Ra. Glad I could help.
There are the Deathlocks for warlocks.
Fighters are Revenants or Wites
Paladins are Death Knights
Druids and rangers probably have some obscure thing
Bards are too bardy.
My only good homebrews: Races, Subclasses.
An aspiring DM and Homebrewer. Ask me if you need anything.
Deathlocks are warlocks, a fighter would probably be a sword wraith commander, a skull lord is a sorcerer, a boneclaw is essentially a rogue or shadow monk, and an eidolon could be a barbarian.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
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Homebrew (Mostly Outdated): Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
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If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
warlock: deathlock
fighter: wight
rogue: this is from an adventure, but shadow assassin works well enough.
I am an average mathematics enjoyer.
>Extended Signature<
I'm a giraffe
To everyone who replied, thank you. However, I was more looking for coming up with new high level intelligent undead ideas, not just comparing classes to the middle tier undead. Basically for my next campaign I am making a villain group that is composed of all powerful undead and function like a shadow organization across the world. They have one of each class and I wanted to apply the "templates" of the high-tier undead to them.
If that's the case I would just start out with "basic" undead and give them more powers. How about a zombie barbarian? Why zombie and barbarian? No particular reason except that this zombie can really take a punch and gets *really* mad sometimes. Or maybe it was a barbarian when it was alive? Do you want a mummy druid? Just change the spells to be more in line with the druid spell list and add some shape shifting. Vampires can of course be all sorts of classes so you can go wild with them. :)
A super powered revenant for a fighter. They have died but refuse to stay down we could call it a remnant due to it’s single minded nature of completing the goal it was doing before it died.
Mostly nocturnal
help build a world here
Not exactly undead, but I think the bard should be something like a Harpy with its luring song ability.
Druid maybe something like a Shambling Mound.
Monk could be based on Poltergeist.
The more I think about it, undead is too limiting for the final form of each class. It makes sense for a necromancer wizard to become a lich, and it there's irony in an undead form for paladins and clerics. But I really want a druid to become an awakened plant. A pact of the fiend warlock should become a fiend, and a pact of the great old one warlock should become an aberration. Draconic bloodline sorcerers could become full dragons. A fey seems like a good evolution for a ranger. Maybe a barbarian could become a giant.
clerics also had Huecuevas iirc. Also, just as a neutral outsider, i doubt an enemy party entirely made out of liches would be too fun to deal with. too many phylacteries to hunt down imo.
i also second whoever said artificers would be a construct rather than undead. makes no sense why a powerful would let himself become an undead when he could become a construct.
clerics would make most sense as a vampire servant of some evil god.
So I'll just headcanon/homebrew some of my own: (some of these were stolen from my own ttrpg i am building)
names can be changed if you wish
Ragewraith: undead high level barbarian who was too ******* angry to stay dead. constantly in rage and filled with overbearing hatred; good abilities include causing nearby hostiles to become overflowing with rage and attack everyone else. Also should hit REALLY hard in melee.
Transcendent: undead high level monk. stolen from the idea of some buddhist monks mummifying themselves. So this is the endgame: mummifying yourself, and then willing yourself to life again. I'm not too sure on the mechanics, but probably innate magic spellcasting, and also quivering palm and the like.
Left Hand: undead high level fiend pact warlock. this one should be interesting, like basically a half-fiend half-undead warlock, revived by his patron and basically having a utility they could never outlive. the name is a reference to the left-hand path, but if you want more fun, they could have one shriveled cursed hand (left hand) which can cast, and one relatively normal one, for wielding weapons. should also have fiend characteristics and abilities, like maybe being able to summon fiends without a spell slot.
Shadow of Death: undead high level rogue. so just a really high level shadow. invisibility, teleportation, hard to detect, just a shadow scaled up to CR 16 or higher.
Aptrganga: undead high level barbarian. name stolen from old norse meaning after-walker. The idea of this one is that a village or so finds an ancient berserkr that served them in life, and by way of magic, resurrected them to protect them or fulfill a quest. Ideally this character wouldn't be evil (god i hate the assumption that undead = evil, this is what playing dos2 does to you), maybe dragged along to kill an evil PC or just having a common motive. Abilities may include an ability to nullify magical resistances.
(some play on the word) Genius Loci: undead high level druid. shouldn't be an actual genius loci, but the idea is that a sufficiently powerful druid should become one with nature, even if they are undead. the idea is that the druid isn't just themselves, but also a localized patch of nature, but all controlled by it. no physical body either -- you gotta burn the whole place down to kill it. this is probably my favorite idea, even if i don't have a name. if you need some inspiration, check out Ragnorra's second form from Elder Evils (3.5e book) but imagine druidic.
Baneshee: sorry for the bad pun. undead high level bard. would work best for a bardy bard with focus on music playing, so basically an enemy support, with powerful buffs and debuffs in range, with spellcasting too. have fun getting your fighter disabled via ottos irresistible dance
For the other classes I suspect you can build a regular undead/vampire/whatever + class levels like in 3.5e but that's kinda boring. but its better than nothing i guess.
"h"