I'm pretty new to D&D so bare with me. I've created my first serious character and want to learn to play the game well with the character I have. I have some ideas for him and I would love some advice from more seasoned players.
I created a tiefling warlock 3/artificer 2 whose patron is a demon. Admittedly I multiclassed him on a whim as soon as I learned the Artificer class existed (so I'm kind of doing some course correction on him now since it doesn't seem Artificer and Warlocks mesh all that well from what I researched).
My guy is... let's be nice about it and say he's not a tank. Therefore I'm thinking of playing him as more like a summoner type, using the Summon demon spells, his homunculus, (possibly steel defender if I go that route) and engage more in minion management than getting up close in a fight.
This leads me to my first question. As an Artificer, what kind of specialist do you think would best suit my needs? Each one has a lure that draws me to them. I want to try and use my artificer class and warlock in conjunction as much as possible.
Alchemist: Could I use this one to potentially bolster my summons/allies?
Artillerist: So my DM has a 1 Summon policy (fair enough, don't want to drag combat out for everyone). Would the eldritch cannons count as a summon? If not, could that be a way to augment my offense in concert with my summons?
Battlesmith: The Steel Defender is the largest draw to this specialty for me. But same question as above. Does it count as a summon?
Any input on which specialist to take would be greatly appreciated.
Next, if I should level up as a warlock next, I'd get an ability score improvement. Should I devote the 2 points to bolstering my charisma (which is my best skill) to be able to control my summons easier or would it be better to spend it on intelligence to have a better artificer?'
Lastly, are Artificer prepared spells limited to spells designated for an Artificer or can it be for Warlock spells too? This one is probably the easiest one to answer, but still new to the game.
Thank you for any information you could provide! I wish Nat 20's to you all!
You would have to ask your DM about whether each thing counts as a "summon". Perhaps anything that has its own turn in combat is what the DM will class as a Summon.
The cannon might not, since it is only activated when you use a bonus action to make it do something.
The Steel Defender is likely to be classed as a Summons, because it creates a separate entity which has its own turn in combat.
Taking 4 levels in a class grants you an ASI, so going 3 levels in one and then switching isn't optimal.
The multiclassing rules say that you choose and prepare spells for each class separately.
thank you for your reply! That was a good tip about the cannon and multi-classing!
I however don’t think I'm understanding your advice on the ASI. I’m not planning on switching from one to the other. More I'm wondering if using it to enhance my charisma to better control my summons is a better idea or my intelligence to make better use of my artificer skills.
What Farling means is that you only get ASI increases (or feats if your DM allows them) at specific character class levels. For example if you were a level 3 Warlock Level 3 Artificer then you would get no ASI increases at all because both those classes require a minimum of 4 levels before granting a ASI increase. Whereas a similar level 6 character but with a split of say level 4 Warlock Level 2 Artificer would get a ASI increase because they have reached 4 levels in Warlock.
Multiclassing spellcasters can get a little bit hard to track especially when the 2 classes use a different ability score to determine spellcasting. This is because you have to keep track of what spell came from which class and use the appropriate spellcasting modifier if the spell requires one.
I guess it realy depends if you are an Art/War or a War/Art? If you are an ART/WAR then just keep the 13 Cha and Max your Int. The WAR addition is using primarily to get your "summons" (elixirs, cannons) back on a short rest.
If going WAR/ART then do the opposite, and you are mainly to pick up a could of infusion. Maybe a Hex blade that makes their own magic weapons, or your character treats the infusion like any other Eldric Invocation. A second prepared spell list is always a nice addition to a fixed per level list
I would need to know what your Warlock subclass is in order to make a good recommendation.
Hexblade and Battlesmith don't mix well, as one lets you used Cha for weapon attacks and the other lets you use Int, so you're making one of those redundant. And if your DM has a 1 summon rule, I would think that he would consider the SD as a summon because it has its own turn. Basically, your DM doesn't want one person to be taking half of the turns in combat all by himself.
Alchemist is not a great pick if you want to bolster you summons, because it takes an action to drink the Elixirs. So, you're using the limited time that you have your summon to spend its action to bolster/heal it.
I would think that Artillerist would mesh the best as it gives you another outlet for your spells. The Eldritch Cannon is most similar to Spiritual Weapon in that it moves and attacks on its own, but it all happens on your turn using your action economy (so it shouldn't be considered a summon).
Also, if you DM has issue with the Eldritch Cannon as a summons they might let you do protector cannon and either have it mounted on your shoulder or tag along behind the front liners to give Temporary HP each turn. If you do this I would boost INT for the extra THP. But it also depends on how far you plan on going in each class.
He started as a Warlock and I added in Artificer so I suppose WAR/ART is the way I'd more likely lean.
My patron is the Fiend, with Pact of the Tome if that helps at all. I'm not entirely sure I understand the concept of the Hexblade. Is it another subclass for Warlocks or some kind of spell? Thanks for your help!
He started as a Warlock and I added in Artificer so I suppose WAR/ART is the way I'd more likely lean.
My patron is the Fiend, with Pact of the Tome if that helps at all. I'm not entirely sure I understand the concept of the Hexblade. Is it another subclass for Warlocks or some kind of spell? Thanks for your help!
Hexblade is a popular Warlock subclass which, among other things, gives you the ability to make weapon attacks using Charisma instead of Strength or Dexterity.
As for my advice... I would say, since you've already got better CHA than INT, rather than try to switch gears you should keep Warlock as your primary class, and only go Artificer for a 3 level dip. Of the Artificer Subclasses, both Battlesmith and Armorer have important features that key off of your INT, so they're not particularly useful to you. As well, the Battlesmith's Steel Defender, although it fits your "summoner" character type, a number of its stats are dependent on your Artificer Level, so it's not a good subclass to dip into, since your Steel Defender will quickly become overpowered regularly if you don't have many levels in Artificer.
You've gotten some good advice already on how to take advantage of going Artillerist, and while that does work well, I think that Alchemist, despite being probably the least popular Artificer Subclass, has some interesting synergy with what you're trying to do.
For one, right off the bat at level 3 it gives you access to Healing Word, which is probably the best healing spell in the game. I assume you're not the primary healer of your party, but it's always helpful to have a ranged bonus action heal that can pop someone else up in an emergency. Remember that when someone is reduced to zero HP any amount of healing brings them back to consciousness, so this isn't something that's really useful for restoring health, but it is useful for just getting someone off the ground and stop them making Death Saving Throws.
Secondly, if you're going to focus on having summoned minions, it would be helpful to be able to give them your Experimental Elixirs. Now they can deliver them to your allies or possibly even consume them themselves. The Elixirs can be a bit of a hassle to use, since they take an action to consume, but they can really help in a pinch.
Finally, and here's the main reason I'm suggesting Alchemist... You can create Elixirs at-will as long as you spend a spell slot to do so, but it does not say that it needs to be an Artificer spell slot. Therefore, if you're about to take a short rest and you have any Warlock Spell Slots, you can use them to instantly create Elixirs, and when you create an elixir in this manner you get to pick which effect it has. Then you take a short rest, and you've recovered your spell slots and you have some free potions to hand out.
And this is kind of a small benefit, but another detail is that Alchemist's Supplies are some of the more easily useful Tools in the game, since, for example, the item description states that you can create common chemical supplies (such as Acid or Alchemist's Fire) as part of a Long Rest without needing to dedicate any additional time to the task, and only requiring half the cost of the item in supplies.
Thanks for your advice! That's definitely an angle I haven't thought of before! My group doesn't really have a designated 'healer' yet (we've all just barely started playing we're still finding our footing) so having that spell could be incredibly helpful for the future. Plus with the ability to deliver potions, bolster my summons/allies while still commanding the demons for offensive purposes could be very interesting. That tip about using the spell slots to create elixirs could be very useful!
The pact slots for elixers also works for eldric cannons. Also the force ballistica uses your range spell attack modifier to hit, and on a warlock this will be your charisma.
The economy for damage to spell slot for a turret is actually pretty good considering it last an hour. That's 60 force ballisticas or 60 "burning hands" flamethrower for the cost of one spell slot, not to mention the temporary hit points that can be refreshed for whole hour.
Since it also uses your bonus action it should not cause issues with slowing down game play.
The pact slots for elixers also works for eldric cannons. Also the force ballistica uses your range spell attack modifier to hit, and on a warlock this will be your charisma.
The economy for damage to spell slot for a turret is actually pretty good considering it last an hour. That's 60 force ballisticas or 60 "burning hands" flamethrower for the cost of one spell slot, not to mention the temporary hit points that can be refreshed for whole hour.
Since it also uses your bonus action it should not cause issues with slowing down game play.
No the canons all use INT not CHA as the modifier because they trigger off the Artillerist Artificer's spell casting modifier/DC not the Warlocks.
The pact slots for elixers also works for eldric cannons. Also the force ballistica uses your range spell attack modifier to hit, and on a warlock this will be your charisma.
The economy for damage to spell slot for a turret is actually pretty good considering it last an hour. That's 60 force ballisticas or 60 "burning hands" flamethrower for the cost of one spell slot, not to mention the temporary hit points that can be refreshed for whole hour.
Since it also uses your bonus action it should not cause issues with slowing down game play.
No the canons all use INT not CHA as the modifier because they trigger off the Artillerist Artificer's spell casting modifier/DC not the Warlocks.
You are correct. I am sorry for the misinformation. (I don't multiclass two magic classes often for this reason :) )
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Hello,
I'm pretty new to D&D so bare with me. I've created my first serious character and want to learn to play the game well with the character I have. I have some ideas for him and I would love some advice from more seasoned players.
I created a tiefling warlock 3/artificer 2 whose patron is a demon. Admittedly I multiclassed him on a whim as soon as I learned the Artificer class existed (so I'm kind of doing some course correction on him now since it doesn't seem Artificer and Warlocks mesh all that well from what I researched).
My guy is... let's be nice about it and say he's not a tank. Therefore I'm thinking of playing him as more like a summoner type, using the Summon demon spells, his homunculus, (possibly steel defender if I go that route) and engage more in minion management than getting up close in a fight.
This leads me to my first question. As an Artificer, what kind of specialist do you think would best suit my needs? Each one has a lure that draws me to them. I want to try and use my artificer class and warlock in conjunction as much as possible.
Alchemist: Could I use this one to potentially bolster my summons/allies?
Artillerist: So my DM has a 1 Summon policy (fair enough, don't want to drag combat out for everyone). Would the eldritch cannons count as a summon? If not, could that be a way to augment my offense in concert with my summons?
Battlesmith: The Steel Defender is the largest draw to this specialty for me. But same question as above. Does it count as a summon?
Any input on which specialist to take would be greatly appreciated.
Next, if I should level up as a warlock next, I'd get an ability score improvement. Should I devote the 2 points to bolstering my charisma (which is my best skill) to be able to control my summons easier or would it be better to spend it on intelligence to have a better artificer?'
Lastly, are Artificer prepared spells limited to spells designated for an Artificer or can it be for Warlock spells too? This one is probably the easiest one to answer, but still new to the game.
Thank you for any information you could provide! I wish Nat 20's to you all!
You would have to ask your DM about whether each thing counts as a "summon". Perhaps anything that has its own turn in combat is what the DM will class as a Summon.
The cannon might not, since it is only activated when you use a bonus action to make it do something.
The Steel Defender is likely to be classed as a Summons, because it creates a separate entity which has its own turn in combat.
Taking 4 levels in a class grants you an ASI, so going 3 levels in one and then switching isn't optimal.
The multiclassing rules say that you choose and prepare spells for each class separately.
Hi Farling,
thank you for your reply! That was a good tip about the cannon and multi-classing!
I however don’t think I'm understanding your advice on the ASI. I’m not planning on switching from one to the other. More I'm wondering if using it to enhance my charisma to better control my summons is a better idea or my intelligence to make better use of my artificer skills.
What Farling means is that you only get ASI increases (or feats if your DM allows them) at specific character class levels. For example if you were a level 3 Warlock Level 3 Artificer then you would get no ASI increases at all because both those classes require a minimum of 4 levels before granting a ASI increase. Whereas a similar level 6 character but with a split of say level 4 Warlock Level 2 Artificer would get a ASI increase because they have reached 4 levels in Warlock.
Multiclassing spellcasters can get a little bit hard to track especially when the 2 classes use a different ability score to determine spellcasting. This is because you have to keep track of what spell came from which class and use the appropriate spellcasting modifier if the spell requires one.
I guess it realy depends if you are an Art/War or a War/Art? If you are an ART/WAR then just keep the 13 Cha and Max your Int. The WAR addition is using primarily to get your "summons" (elixirs, cannons) back on a short rest.
If going WAR/ART then do the opposite, and you are mainly to pick up a could of infusion. Maybe a Hex blade that makes their own magic weapons, or your character treats the infusion like any other Eldric Invocation. A second prepared spell list is always a nice addition to a fixed per level list
Also, if you DM has issue with the Eldritch Cannon as a summons they might let you do protector cannon and either have it mounted on your shoulder or tag along behind the front liners to give Temporary HP each turn. If you do this I would boost INT for the extra THP. But it also depends on how far you plan on going in each class.
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Hi Lonely Magi,
That's good to know! Thanks for clarifying!
Hi Utsu_Yami,
He started as a Warlock and I added in Artificer so I suppose WAR/ART is the way I'd more likely lean.
My patron is the Fiend, with Pact of the Tome if that helps at all. I'm not entirely sure I understand the concept of the Hexblade. Is it another subclass for Warlocks or some kind of spell? Thanks for your help!
Hi Arntlthebest,
My subclass is the Fiend with Pact of the Tome. And that's good advice on the Artillerist. Thank you so much!
Hi ThriKreenWarrior,
That's a good idea with the protector cannon! I'll have to look into that! Thanks for your advice!
Hexblade is a popular Warlock subclass which, among other things, gives you the ability to make weapon attacks using Charisma instead of Strength or Dexterity.
As for my advice... I would say, since you've already got better CHA than INT, rather than try to switch gears you should keep Warlock as your primary class, and only go Artificer for a 3 level dip. Of the Artificer Subclasses, both Battlesmith and Armorer have important features that key off of your INT, so they're not particularly useful to you. As well, the Battlesmith's Steel Defender, although it fits your "summoner" character type, a number of its stats are dependent on your Artificer Level, so it's not a good subclass to dip into, since your Steel Defender will quickly become overpowered regularly if you don't have many levels in Artificer.
You've gotten some good advice already on how to take advantage of going Artillerist, and while that does work well, I think that Alchemist, despite being probably the least popular Artificer Subclass, has some interesting synergy with what you're trying to do.
For one, right off the bat at level 3 it gives you access to Healing Word, which is probably the best healing spell in the game. I assume you're not the primary healer of your party, but it's always helpful to have a ranged bonus action heal that can pop someone else up in an emergency. Remember that when someone is reduced to zero HP any amount of healing brings them back to consciousness, so this isn't something that's really useful for restoring health, but it is useful for just getting someone off the ground and stop them making Death Saving Throws.
Secondly, if you're going to focus on having summoned minions, it would be helpful to be able to give them your Experimental Elixirs. Now they can deliver them to your allies or possibly even consume them themselves. The Elixirs can be a bit of a hassle to use, since they take an action to consume, but they can really help in a pinch.
Finally, and here's the main reason I'm suggesting Alchemist... You can create Elixirs at-will as long as you spend a spell slot to do so, but it does not say that it needs to be an Artificer spell slot. Therefore, if you're about to take a short rest and you have any Warlock Spell Slots, you can use them to instantly create Elixirs, and when you create an elixir in this manner you get to pick which effect it has. Then you take a short rest, and you've recovered your spell slots and you have some free potions to hand out.
And this is kind of a small benefit, but another detail is that Alchemist's Supplies are some of the more easily useful Tools in the game, since, for example, the item description states that you can create common chemical supplies (such as Acid or Alchemist's Fire) as part of a Long Rest without needing to dedicate any additional time to the task, and only requiring half the cost of the item in supplies.
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Hi TransmorpherDDS,
Thanks for your advice! That's definitely an angle I haven't thought of before! My group doesn't really have a designated 'healer' yet (we've all just barely started playing we're still finding our footing) so having that spell could be incredibly helpful for the future. Plus with the ability to deliver potions, bolster my summons/allies while still commanding the demons for offensive purposes could be very interesting. That tip about using the spell slots to create elixirs could be very useful!
The pact slots for elixers also works for eldric cannons. Also the force ballistica uses your range spell attack modifier to hit, and on a warlock this will be your charisma.
The economy for damage to spell slot for a turret is actually pretty good considering it last an hour. That's 60 force ballisticas or 60 "burning hands" flamethrower for the cost of one spell slot, not to mention the temporary hit points that can be refreshed for whole hour.
Since it also uses your bonus action it should not cause issues with slowing down game play.
No the canons all use INT not CHA as the modifier because they trigger off the Artillerist Artificer's spell casting modifier/DC not the Warlocks.
You are correct. I am sorry for the misinformation. (I don't multiclass two magic classes often for this reason :) )