When it comes to damage, let's compare it to Fireball. Guiding Bolt will always do 2d6 less damage than Fireball when both are cast at the same level. Fireball requires a save and Guiding Bolt an attack roll. This makes Fireball more reliable to do damage but possibly less. If we take half damage rolls of both spells fireball will do 24 on a failed save and 12 on a successful save, and Guiding bolt will do 18 on a hit. Guiding Bolt in this instance takes the halfway point between Fireballs (average) max and min. Fireball can do damage to more opponents of course, which could put it ahead of Guiding Bolt. It is also saved based making Guiding Bolt worse against high AC enemies. HOWEVER. Guiding Bolt has one thing that I think makes it incredibly competitive. Its effect of giving all attacks against the target advantage. This ability is insane. Compared to Fireball, it only does 2d6 less damage, AND it gives your sorcerer with scotching ray advantage on EVERY SINGLE ATTACK roll against that poor, poor SOB. The combo potential is insane, and giving every single one of your allies attacks advantage against the creature is spectacular. This ability is similar to Faerie Fire, except it also does competitively good damage to a single target, which makes it more desirable against bosses and other brutes. Even though the target may have high AC, I still think its worth the cast, because your next attack with Guiding Bolt will also have advantage, snowballing into perma-advantage. (not to mention it procs rogues sneak attack). Why are people sleeping on this spell?
and the next attack roll made against this target before the end of your next turn has advantage
which means it is only one single attack roll that gets to be at advantage.
That means it's still an excellent cast just before your rogue's or paladin's attack or any other build that has significant benefit from advantage AND crazy nova damage. It's just not the auto cast that permanent advantage + significant damage would be.
Edit: Also of note, Guiding Bolt is one of only two leveled attack spells that clerics all have access to from first level and one of five total attack spells available to first level clerics outside of domain spells and bonus cantrips. It's often worth a preparation spot on boss fights, but over powers many other creatures. Bless on the other hand gives mini advantage to three different allies attacks and saving throws and it can affect multiple enemies (through the attacks of the three allies). If you happen to have multiple Nova-capable allies, this damage will usually outweigh the 4d6+1d6 per spell level above first. The increase in the saving throws means fewer resources required for healing later, allowing for more short rests between long rests, less gp spent on potions and spell scrolls, and more leveled spells spent to attack or support the party other than through heals.
For Warlocks or Sorcerers with access to the cleric list, they usually have better options for pure damage, but it can still be reasonable if they have to sit the line between damager and support (less so for Warlocks).
So after adjusting for your incorrect reading, it is a just ok spell that has less combo potential than faerie fire, less damage than fireball, and should not be used on enemies with high AC.
I think we solved why people don't talk about it much. Again, it is a perfectly fine spell, and I recommend it to clerics that want a ranged attack spell (most don't really get a better damage option until level 9).
Oh absolutely - it's a decent spell in certain situations and I never claimed otherwise! 😊
I wasn't intending to say that you had, just trying to clarify for those of us that tend to go from one extreme to the other. "It's awesome!" "No, it doesn't quite say that." "It's terrible, never take/prepare it!" is a chain that occurs occasionally on here.
Watching Laura Bailey wiff like 3 guiding bolts in a row on Critical Role has reinforced what I already know in my heart: never cast a spell with a slot which does nothing on a miss, when all that spell does is ~5 more damage than a cantrip. As cleric you aren’t the DPS, and literally anything else you cast will be more useful than GB , especially if it misses.
Watching Laura Bailey wiff like 3 guiding bolts in a row on Critical Role has reinforced what I already know in my heart: never cast a spell with a slot which does nothing on a miss, when all that spell does is ~5 more damage than a cantrip.
I agree with a caveat: If I have advantage on the attack roll I might drop an attack spell on the target. Attack spells have two points in their favor: they don't care about saves (and therefore Legendary Resistances or Magic Resistance) and they have a chance of landing a critical hit. Advantage mitigates the weakness and amplifies the strength. A cleric with a critical inflict wounds happens less than a paladin's smite does, but 6d10 damage at 1st level is not insignificant.
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Another medical problem. Indefinite hiatus. Sorry, all.
It does more average damage than Chromatic Orb, and doesn't require a 50 gp gem or any material components, and gives advantage on the next attack. It is a very good 1st level spell.
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I literally can’t picture a combat where Guiding Bolt is a better cast than Bless. Sure, at high levels once you start having multiple slots to throw around, maybe you could afford a GB to set up the rogue or Paladin if you already have Bless up... but at low levels (when you first get it) GB is ALWAYS a suboptimal risky cast.
I literally can’t picture a combat where Guiding Bolt is a better cast than Bless. Sure, at high levels once you start having multiple slots to throw around, maybe you could afford a GB to set up the rogue or Paladin if you already have Bless up... but at low levels (when you first get it) GB is ALWAYS a suboptimal risky cast.
Maybe a combat where it is turn 2 and the cleric is already concentrating on bless?
Guiding Bolt is a great spell and I love it, but that doesn’t mean it’s always a good choice. I’m DMing much more than I’m playing now and I don’t worry about the fact that two players in the games that I run use Guiding Bolt when I’m planning encounters because it doesn’t have that much of an impact on combat. It helps and when it hits it does nice damage and gives one PC advantage on one attack, but it’s not even close to overpowered. Spells like Faerie Fire and Slow give the PCs more bang for their buck than Guiding Bolt does.
The nature of 5e means that virtually all damaging spells that aren't cantrips are "wastes of a spell slot". Most martial characters can so easily outstrip the damaging potential of even really huge punchy spells that the only reason to use them is when you need a huge burst of damage all at once to burn down a particularly deadly threat, or when you're Dynasty Warriors-ing through a horde and area spells become efficient again.
This isn't a Guiding Bolt problem, this is a Spellcasting-in-general problem. GB is actually not too bad by the standards of a first-level damage spell; it's got good range and a nice rider effect that can help out against certain targets if, for example, a War cleric can force the Guiding Bolt through. It's simply that "BUFF THE MARTIALS!!1!" is so much more effective in most cases that it doesn't matter how crazy overpowered the 5e cleric is; nobody will ever let it be anything but a basic backline buffboi using all its resources to just passively make everyone else better so all the cleric's friends can have fun playing D&D.
Experiment for y'all: make a War or Tempest cleric with Strength as their primary stat and charge into the front lines behind a warhammer and chainmail to deliver your god's wrath in person. Watch the rest of the party just completely fail to compute as their Designated Heal*****, with just a little bit of creativity (namely acquiring the SCAG sword cantrips somehow), easily keeps up with a typical martial damage-dealer throughout most of the game. The average table will just not be able to handle it.
Experiment for y'all: make a War or Tempest cleric with Strength as their primary stat and charge into the front lines behind a warhammer and chainmail to deliver your god's wrath in person. Watch the rest of the party just completely fail to compute as their Designated Heal*****, with just a little bit of creativity (namely acquiring the SCAG sword cantrips somehow), easily keeps up with a typical martial damage-dealer throughout most of the game. The average table will just not be able to handle it.
Truth, and the Cleric domain doesn't even need to be as optimized as War or Tempest to see how effective it can be. Jaws tend to drop when my Life Cleric/Divine Soul Sorcerer tells a party to stay back, and then strolls through an entire combat encounter solo... with only mundane gear, and taking no damage. Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon, and Booming Blade / Green-Flame Blade is all that's needed. 20 base AC pumped up to 25 via Shield as a reaction. An optimized Cleric/Sorc can be even more sickening.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Watching Laura Bailey wiff like 3 guiding bolts in a row on Critical Role has reinforced what I already know in my heart: never cast a spell with a slot which does nothing on a miss, when all that spell does is ~5 more damage than a cantrip. As cleric you aren’t the DPS, and literally anything else you cast will be more useful than GB , especially if it misses.
As a cleric, you can provide significant damage, just usually not through spells that do nothing on a miss. The key to direct damage as a cleric is to get spirit guardians and then spiritual weapon up, and let them do most of the damage for you (then spend your actions on resource-free damage if possible). As you say though, you can be quite effective as a cleric by turning other peoples' misses into hits with bless or other buffs. But overall, I do agree that it is much better to expend resources on guaranteed effects.
The funny thing about Laura's character is I think she thinks she's hard on herself overall because she tends to be ineffective in combat, but Jester is by far the most effective character outside of combat.
Watching Laura Bailey wiff like 3 guiding bolts in a row on Critical Role has reinforced what I already know in my heart: never cast a spell with a slot which does nothing on a miss, when all that spell does is ~5 more damage than a cantrip. As cleric you aren’t the DPS, and literally anything else you cast will be more useful than GB , especially if it misses.
As a cleric, you can provide significant damage, just usually not through spells that do nothing on a miss. The key to direct damage as a cleric is to get spirit guardians and then spiritual weapon up, and let them do most of the damage for you (then spend your actions on resource-free damage if possible). As you say though, you can be quite effective as a cleric by turning other peoples' misses into hits with bless or other buffs. But overall, I do agree that it is much better to expend resources on guaranteed effects.
The funny thing about Laura's character is I think she thinks she's hard on herself overall because she tends to be ineffective in combat, but Jester is by far the most effective character outside of combat.
On a tangent, we're seeing her rely more on more on Spiritual Guardians. I don't think she was ever completely ineffective in combat and she doesn't make a lot of misplays (Fjord hex lol). She just falls a bit behind Caleb sometimes and Beau, especially when they let Beau benefit from Holy Weapon (or use all her ki in one fight).
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Another medical problem. Indefinite hiatus. Sorry, all.
One positive point to remember about GB is that it's non-concentration. Sure, faerie fire is a better way to grant advantage to your team, but it's not an option if you're concentrating on a polymorph or some other buff.
If you're using your concentration on something else, that's where guiding bolt is a nice option.
One positive point to remember about GB is that it's non-concentration. Sure, faerie fire is a better way to grant advantage to your team, but it's not an option if you're concentrating on a polymorph or some other buff.
If you're using your concentration on something else, that's where guiding bolt is a nice option.
Also, by default one is a Bard/Druid spell and the other is a Cleric spell so that shouldn't even be consideration unless you have specific means of "crossing the streams" so to speak ;-)
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When it comes to damage, let's compare it to Fireball. Guiding Bolt will always do 2d6 less damage than Fireball when both are cast at the same level. Fireball requires a save and Guiding Bolt an attack roll. This makes Fireball more reliable to do damage but possibly less. If we take half damage rolls of both spells fireball will do 24 on a failed save and 12 on a successful save, and Guiding bolt will do 18 on a hit. Guiding Bolt in this instance takes the halfway point between Fireballs (average) max and min. Fireball can do damage to more opponents of course, which could put it ahead of Guiding Bolt. It is also saved based making Guiding Bolt worse against high AC enemies. HOWEVER. Guiding Bolt has one thing that I think makes it incredibly competitive. Its effect of giving all attacks against the target advantage. This ability is insane. Compared to Fireball, it only does 2d6 less damage, AND it gives your sorcerer with scotching ray advantage on EVERY SINGLE ATTACK roll against that poor, poor SOB. The combo potential is insane, and giving every single one of your allies attacks advantage against the creature is spectacular. This ability is similar to Faerie Fire, except it also does competitively good damage to a single target, which makes it more desirable against bosses and other brutes. Even though the target may have high AC, I still think its worth the cast, because your next attack with Guiding Bolt will also have advantage, snowballing into perma-advantage. (not to mention it procs rogues sneak attack). Why are people sleeping on this spell?
Edit:
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D&D Beyond FoundersUnfortunately guiding bolt states:
which means it is only one single attack roll that gets to be at advantage.
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"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
That means it's still an excellent cast just before your rogue's or paladin's attack or any other build that has significant benefit from advantage AND crazy nova damage. It's just not the auto cast that permanent advantage + significant damage would be.
Edit: Also of note, Guiding Bolt is one of only two leveled attack spells that clerics all have access to from first level and one of five total attack spells available to first level clerics outside of domain spells and bonus cantrips. It's often worth a preparation spot on boss fights, but over powers many other creatures. Bless on the other hand gives mini advantage to three different allies attacks and saving throws and it can affect multiple enemies (through the attacks of the three allies). If you happen to have multiple Nova-capable allies, this damage will usually outweigh the 4d6+1d6 per spell level above first. The increase in the saving throws means fewer resources required for healing later, allowing for more short rests between long rests, less gp spent on potions and spell scrolls, and more leveled spells spent to attack or support the party other than through heals.
For Warlocks or Sorcerers with access to the cleric list, they usually have better options for pure damage, but it can still be reasonable if they have to sit the line between damager and support (less so for Warlocks).
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D&D Beyond FoundersOh absolutely - it's a decent spell in certain situations and I never claimed otherwise! 😊
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
So after adjusting for your incorrect reading, it is a just ok spell that has less combo potential than faerie fire, less damage than fireball, and should not be used on enemies with high AC.
I think we solved why people don't talk about it much. Again, it is a perfectly fine spell, and I recommend it to clerics that want a ranged attack spell (most don't really get a better damage option until level 9).
Absolutely
I wasn't intending to say that you had, just trying to clarify for those of us that tend to go from one extreme to the other. "It's awesome!" "No, it doesn't quite say that." "It's terrible, never take/prepare it!" is a chain that occurs occasionally on here.
Watching Laura Bailey wiff like 3 guiding bolts in a row on Critical Role has reinforced what I already know in my heart: never cast a spell with a slot which does nothing on a miss, when all that spell does is ~5 more damage than a cantrip. As cleric you aren’t the DPS, and literally anything else you cast will be more useful than GB , especially if it misses.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I agree with a caveat: If I have advantage on the attack roll I might drop an attack spell on the target. Attack spells have two points in their favor: they don't care about saves (and therefore Legendary Resistances or Magic Resistance) and they have a chance of landing a critical hit. Advantage mitigates the weakness and amplifies the strength. A cleric with a critical inflict wounds happens less than a paladin's smite does, but 6d10 damage at 1st level is not insignificant.
Another medical problem. Indefinite hiatus. Sorry, all.
It does more average damage than Chromatic Orb, and doesn't require a 50 gp gem or any material components, and gives advantage on the next attack. It is a very good 1st level spell.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I literally can’t picture a combat where Guiding Bolt is a better cast than Bless. Sure, at high levels once you start having multiple slots to throw around, maybe you could afford a GB to set up the rogue or Paladin if you already have Bless up... but at low levels (when you first get it) GB is ALWAYS a suboptimal risky cast.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Maybe a combat where it is turn 2 and the cleric is already concentrating on bless?
Or when the cleric wants to deal damage themselves, instead of being a support cleric?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Guiding Bolt is a great spell and I love it, but that doesn’t mean it’s always a good choice. I’m DMing much more than I’m playing now and I don’t worry about the fact that two players in the games that I run use Guiding Bolt when I’m planning encounters because it doesn’t have that much of an impact on combat. It helps and when it hits it does nice damage and gives one PC advantage on one attack, but it’s not even close to overpowered. Spells like Faerie Fire and Slow give the PCs more bang for their buck than Guiding Bolt does.
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The nature of 5e means that virtually all damaging spells that aren't cantrips are "wastes of a spell slot". Most martial characters can so easily outstrip the damaging potential of even really huge punchy spells that the only reason to use them is when you need a huge burst of damage all at once to burn down a particularly deadly threat, or when you're Dynasty Warriors-ing through a horde and area spells become efficient again.
This isn't a Guiding Bolt problem, this is a Spellcasting-in-general problem. GB is actually not too bad by the standards of a first-level damage spell; it's got good range and a nice rider effect that can help out against certain targets if, for example, a War cleric can force the Guiding Bolt through. It's simply that "BUFF THE MARTIALS!!1!" is so much more effective in most cases that it doesn't matter how crazy overpowered the 5e cleric is; nobody will ever let it be anything but a basic backline buffboi using all its resources to just passively make everyone else better so all the cleric's friends can have fun playing D&D.
Experiment for y'all: make a War or Tempest cleric with Strength as their primary stat and charge into the front lines behind a warhammer and chainmail to deliver your god's wrath in person. Watch the rest of the party just completely fail to compute as their Designated Heal*****, with just a little bit of creativity (namely acquiring the SCAG sword cantrips somehow), easily keeps up with a typical martial damage-dealer throughout most of the game. The average table will just not be able to handle it.
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Truth, and the Cleric domain doesn't even need to be as optimized as War or Tempest to see how effective it can be. Jaws tend to drop when my Life Cleric/Divine Soul Sorcerer tells a party to stay back, and then strolls through an entire combat encounter solo... with only mundane gear, and taking no damage. Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon, and Booming Blade / Green-Flame Blade is all that's needed. 20 base AC pumped up to 25 via Shield as a reaction. An optimized Cleric/Sorc can be even more sickening.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
As a cleric, you can provide significant damage, just usually not through spells that do nothing on a miss. The key to direct damage as a cleric is to get spirit guardians and then spiritual weapon up, and let them do most of the damage for you (then spend your actions on resource-free damage if possible). As you say though, you can be quite effective as a cleric by turning other peoples' misses into hits with bless or other buffs. But overall, I do agree that it is much better to expend resources on guaranteed effects.
The funny thing about Laura's character is I think she thinks she's hard on herself overall because she tends to be ineffective in combat, but Jester is by far the most effective character outside of combat.
On a tangent, we're seeing her rely more on more on Spiritual Guardians. I don't think she was ever completely ineffective in combat and she doesn't make a lot of misplays (Fjord hex lol). She just falls a bit behind Caleb sometimes and Beau, especially when they let Beau benefit from Holy Weapon (or use all her ki in one fight).
Another medical problem. Indefinite hiatus. Sorry, all.
One positive point to remember about GB is that it's non-concentration. Sure, faerie fire is a better way to grant advantage to your team, but it's not an option if you're concentrating on a polymorph or some other buff.
If you're using your concentration on something else, that's where guiding bolt is a nice option.
Also, by default one is a Bard/Druid spell and the other is a Cleric spell so that shouldn't even be consideration unless you have specific means of "crossing the streams" so to speak ;-)