Glad to see artifacts mechanically differentiated from other magical items. They're supposed to be distinct & theoretically more powerful then other magical items, at least in older editions. But 5e tended to treat all magic equipment as nigh-indistructible, when everything that's not an artifact should have a breaking point. 

Any ruling on what happens to it in anti-magic fields ? Since its not an artifact, does it just become a black beachball ?

Yes, but it's formally referred to as the Black Beach Ball of Annihilation. 

Shouldn’t it be “you control the sphere until the END of your next turn?”

The sphere says you use a Magic action to take control of the sphere, but it only lasts until the start of your next turn, while the Talisman of the Sphere item says you can use a Magic action to move the sphere further when you start your turn in control of the sphere. If you only control it ***until*** the start of your next turn, you can never start your turn in control of it. There would be no window to use the Talisman in that way. So I think there’s either an error here or in the Talisman of the Sphere entry in the 2024 DMG. 

I wish the DMG would offer just a sentence or two on the origin of powerful legendary magic items like this.  I don't need something like that for an uncommon sword +1, but for an item like this I'd loved to have some sort of background information.  Who created this, what was it's original purpose?

I mean, it really depends on the game.

Homebrew campaigns change things all the time, and what fits one campaign might not fit the other.

I know some people like lore they can use, but I have yet to encounter a campaign where someone sticks to the lore written by the creators 100%

In Advanced D&D (1st Edition) the Goddess Hecate controlled 2 of these in Deities and Demigods.
That's back when they were instant death if they touched you.

Quote from OdinAllFather94 >>

Shouldn’t it be “you control the sphere until the END of your next turn?”

The sphere says you use a Magic action to take control of the sphere, but it only lasts until the start of your next turn, while the Talisman of the Sphere item says you can use a Magic action to move the sphere further when you start your turn in control of the sphere. If you only control it ***until*** the start of your next turn, you can never start your turn in control of it. There would be no window to use the Talisman in that way. So I think there’s either an error here or in the Talisman of the Sphere entry in the 2024 DMG. 

 I says you can take a bonus action to move the sphere, so on the same turn that you took control, you can move it as a bonus action.

Quote from Howie503 >>

Quote from OdinAllFather94 >>

Shouldn’t it be “you control the sphere until the END of your next turn?”

The sphere says you use a Magic action to take control of the sphere, but it only lasts until the start of your next turn, while the Talisman of the Sphere item says you can use a Magic action to move the sphere further when you start your turn in control of the sphere. If you only control it ***until*** the start of your next turn, you can never start your turn in control of it. There would be no window to use the Talisman in that way. So I think there’s either an error here or in the Talisman of the Sphere entry in the 2024 DMG. 

 I says you can take a bonus action to move the sphere, so on the same turn that you took control, you can move it as a bonus action.

Quote from Howie503 >>

Quote from OdinAllFather94 >>

Shouldn’t it be “you control the sphere until the END of your next turn?”

The sphere says you use a Magic action to take control of the sphere, but it only lasts until the start of your next turn, while the Talisman of the Sphere item says you can use a Magic action to move the sphere further when you start your turn in control of the sphere. If you only control it ***until*** the start of your next turn, you can never start your turn in control of it. There would be no window to use the Talisman in that way. So I think there’s either an error here or in the Talisman of the Sphere entry in the 2024 DMG. 

 I says you can take a bonus action to move the sphere, so on the same turn that you took control, you can move it as a bonus action.

 That actually did not address what I said at all. My concern was this description in conjunction with the description of the Talisman of the Sphere — which says “when you START YOUR TURN” in control of the sphere. And the description of the Sphere says you only control it *until* the start of your NEXT turn. So you can never *start* your turn in control of one. Yes you can use the Magic action to control it and then subsequent bonus action to move it, but that’s not the issue. 

So it's a shere that destroys all matter except for artefacts...unless it runs into someone, in which case it leaves all their posessions in a neat pile?

Imprisonment Minimus Containment: "indestructible gemstone or a similar object" + "nothing else can pass through by any means"

Sphere of Annihilation: "The sphere obliterates all matter it passes through and all matter that passes through it. Artifacts are the exception. Unless an Artifact is susceptible to damage from a Sphere of Annihilation, it passes through the sphere unscathed. Anything else that touches the sphere but isn’t wholly engulfed and obliterated by it takes 8d10 Force damage."

We effectively have an Immovable Object vs Unstoppable Force paradox.

I could see an argument for a 9th level spell trumping a Legendary Magic Item, and allowing the gemstone to pass through the Sphere without being harmed. But the gemstone, even if "indestructible" does not become an artifact by simple means of this spell.

Considering the spell is intended to have a termination condition " high likelihood of happening within the next decade", for my games I think I might be inclined towards the Sphere's obliteration effect taking precedence, given that the gemstone is matter, is not an artifact, and is likely to be small enough to be "wholly engulfed" by the "2-foot-diameter black sphere" which is "a hole in the multiverse".  Although the Imprisonment spells states that "nothing else can pass through by any means"... the Sphere itself is *literally* "nothing", as in more or less the definition of non-existence. Sure there is an argument to be made against the "magical field" stabilizing the nothing hole to preventing the gem from passing into it. But the gem isn't an artifact, and you don't need the "field" to "pass through" into the gem, you just need the gem to "pass through" the field intact and then be "wholly engulfed" by the Sphere. 

I know the Sphere is no longer an Artifact itself as in earlier Versions of the game (I'm an veteran from way back), but wording wise, it looks like it's the more powerful of the two effects given the "artifact" stipulation on the Sphere, and especially if the older 2014 version's "The gemstone can't be cut or broken while the spell remains in effect." wording points towards it's intent without being explicit any longer.

I'm curious how other people would rule this, I'm open to other interpretations & still pondering the implications.

Quote from OdinAllFather94 >>

Shouldn’t it be “you control the sphere until the END of your next turn?”

The sphere says you use a Magic action to take control of the sphere, but it only lasts until the start of your next turn, while the Talisman of the Sphere item says you can use a Magic action to move the sphere further when you start your turn in control of the sphere. If you only control it ***until*** the start of your next turn, you can never start your turn in control of it. There would be no window to use the Talisman in that way. So I think there’s either an error here or in the Talisman of the Sphere entry in the 2024 DMG. 

 
I think you are correct that the wording is imprecise and not well defined. But as a DM I'm going to venture a guess the *intent* RAI, rather than as written RAW has a particular mechanical meaning they were hoping to capture.

So as written, there is a diving line at the start of your turn.

---- Before your turn / until the start of your next turn ---- | start of your turn | ---- the rest or remainder of your turn -----

lets call that:
X - until the start
Y - start
Z - the remainder

X & Y do not overlap with the interaction of the Sphere of Annihilation & Talisman of the Sphere RAW.

They probably ought to have written the Sphere's language as "On a successful check, you control the sphere until immediately after the start of your next turn, and if it was under another creature’s control, that creature loses control of the sphere."

That would clear up the confusion. Alternatively they could have written the Talisman's language to use "In addition, if you were in control of a Sphere of Annihilation immediately before the start of your turn, you retain control of the Sphere and can take a Magic action on your turn to move it 10 feet plus a number of additional feet equal to 10 times your Intelligence modifier."

Why?

What I think the intent of these items are in combination are to allow you to maintain a more consistent and smooth control over the Sphere.

You gain Advantage on the Arcana checks with the Talisman, making it easier to hit the DC 25 skill check threshold. That works rules as written.

But without the Talisman, how does the Sphere operate? You are required to regain control of the Sphere with your action, then only are able to move it with your Bonus action.

Part of the Talisman's language is clearly attempting to enable you to move the Sphere again with your action on the following turn, rather than needing to regain control over it.

If you have both the Sphere and the Talisman, it's still possible for you to lose control of the Sphere *if* another creature successfully makes the DC 25 Arcana check as a Magic action on their turn in between your turns. Nothing about the Talisman prevents that. If they succeed, you lose control regardless.

So I think what they are going for is that, if you have both the Talisman & the Sphere itself, so long as another creature does not wrest control of the Sphere away from you before the start of your next turn, you can continually move it, both as a Magic action with the Talisman's properties on the following turn, and with the Bonus action of the Sphere itself.

So with both and as long as your control of the Sphere is not interrupted, it would look like this:
Turn 1 - Succeed on a DC 25 Arcana check as an Action, then move the Sphere INT mod x5 feet as a Bonus Action.
Turn 2 - Move the Sphere INT mod x10 feet as an Action, then move the Sphere INT mod x5 feet as a Bonus Action.
Turn 3 - Repeat

Or, at least that's what it would be if you don't use your Action or Bonus action for other things.

With another creature involved attempting to take control of the Sphere, now it gets more complicated.

We'll designate their turns as x.5, so it *could* look as follows:

Turn 1 - Succeed on a DC 25 Arcana check as an Action, then move the Sphere INT mod x5 feet as a Bonus Action.
Turn 1.5 - Another creature attempts and fails a DC 25 Arcana check as a Magic action, the Sphere moves 10 feet towards them, and you don't lose control.
Turn 2 - Move the Sphere INT mod x10 feet as an Action, then move the Sphere INT mod x5 feet as a Bonus Action.
Turn 2.5 - Another creature attempts and succeeds on a DC 25 Arcana check as a Magic action, you lose control of the Sphere, they can move it INT mod x5 as a Bonus action.
Turn 3 - Repeat Turn 1 - Succeed on a DC 25 Arcana check as an Action, then move the Sphere INT mod x5 feet as a Bonus Action.

If that is *not* the way the Talisman functions, it's a completely useless Legendary magic item that takes an attunement slot, because there are a lot of ways to get Advantage on Arcana checks otherwise, and if it doesn't work like that then Advantage on Arcana to move the sphere is the only thing it can ever do for you.

That seems pointless.

So that's the way I would rule it works to remove the confusion around how they operate in conjunction.

Personally, I'm toying around with the notion of a different set of Sphere mechanics as a Home Brew solution, I love the concept of the item and I always have, but as a DM it is a real pain in the neck to include in a campaign and not have it get out of control. It's easily abused to bypass dungeon and other encounter mechanics that can negate the specialness of certain classes, and typically since it operates with INT, it's going to the one class that's already the jack of all trades as the Wizard (although obviously there are some other classes like Artificer or possibly even other subclasses in other classes like the Eldritch Knight Fighter or Psi Warrior Fighter that could have decent synergy.

Regardless... there are some very game breaking things the Sphere can do, and I've seen it get very out of hand before, which is a shame because it's a Legendary (no longer an Artifact like earlier versions of the game) which should feel pretty cool and powerful, but because it can break the game often doesn't even show up in a campaign because it can devolve into a game of chicken between determined Players and the DM. And even when it does, it rarely becomes a lasting campaign item, because you tend to have to place it somewhere that involves planar mechanics that make it difficult to take with you in any reliable fashion. Which is fine if you just want it as a part of a dungeon. But less so if you'd like to explore something more like the old 3.5e Entropomancer concept, which personally I thought was interesting back in the day.

It's also incredibly easy for this item to turn into a TPK if the DM includes a decent INT based boss fight. I've done that to a party before a long while ago  with Acererak and it didn't feel great for anyone, myself included. It felt like it needed better play testing, and that was on top of crazy Tomb of Annihilation was anyway.

So I'm toying with the idea of more stable control over a similar Sphere operation, but maybe where you have to Attune the Sphere itself, and can't have control easily wrested away from you, without having attunement broken, but to also prevent it from being used for mundane things like boring holes in walls, hiding it somewhere and using it for body or garbage disposal, digging tunnels, trenches, etc. And that would be relatively easy to do by making it a Sentient magic item that simply refuses to be used for such mundane tasks.

I'm still playing around with the concept and working out the details for play testing, but the other part I've been considering is swapping the movement mechanics from "DC 25 Arcana to move INT mod x10 or x5" to "you can make an Arcana check and move it a number of feet up to the number you rolled on the skill check". As it is, a Wizard with 20 INT is going to have INT mod 5, and with the Talisman & Sphere, that's a possible 75 feet a movement (50 feet Action, 25 feet Bonus action). Tying it to how high you roll on Arcana would still leave the INT based classes as the most efficient users of the item, but it could open up the possibility of it having usefulness to more classes & characters, although it's highly likely you would not be able to move it as far in any particular turn.

But if I take away the game breaking mechanics in my campaigns, it'll be easier to bring the item in and let Players have fun with it, and I could think of a lot of fun ways to create a Sentient Sphere of Annihilation's personality. So, I'll have to see how that goes. It's an idea I've been mulling over recently anyway.

But hopefully, I'm not too far off in how the RAI for the existing Sphere of Annihilation & Talisman of the Sphere is intended to operate despite the RAW in it's current format.

It's a long winded way around saying, I agree & I think you're right, but it's also fairly obvious what they were going for and an easy enough fix so semantics don't make it ridiculous.

Quote from Uncletrog >>

So it's a shere that destroys all matter except for artefacts...unless it runs into someone, in which case it leaves all their posessions in a neat pile?

 I don't think I would run it that way despite it's wording here, and in fact never has been. DMs are free alter things how they like, and I'm not sure that I've ever run this in a 5e campaign, but when I've used it in the past, it destroys everything but Artifacts. That would include non-Artifact magic items.

Which is still the case here, but apparently not when the item is held, worn, or wielded. I guess there's precedent for that in other spells. I personally like the way the Ravenous Void 9th level spell works in Explorer's Guide to Wildemount. It's immediate destruction of anything non-magical. I think in the case of the Sphere of Annihilation, which does some similar things, it would make sense to work like that, but with slight alteration.

I'd probably have it instantly obliterate non-magical stuff, like the Ravenous Void spell, but maybe put something in place to ensure the Sphere does also obliterate magic items too. I'd probably like to give it just enough wiggle room that characters may have the opportunity for a last ditch effort to get a magic item out of the way before the Sphere consumes it (assuming they aren't Artifacts, which is probably the case).

I might do something like add in "Creatures within 5 feet of the one the Sphere just annihilated can make a DC 19 Dexterity saving throw to snatch magic items out of the square before the Sphere obliterates them as well. On a success, they move those magic items into their own square, and on a failure they fall into the Spheres square and suffer it's effects. If after all reactions are resolved there are any remaining magic items in the Spheres square, they are also obliterated."

That could give some interesting options, characters making mad cap dangerous moves to lunge after items they dont want to lose, at the risk of their own lives, or set up potential ways for things like the Contingency spell with Drawmij's Instant Summons, or maybe something Otilukes Resilient Sphere to at least have a chance of saving items players dont want to lose, but otherwise leave the risk in tact.

I'd have to think about it a little more.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/236231-i-may-not-have-a-brain-gentlemen-but-i-have-an

genius plan guys

D&D gremlins: assemble

Quote from Vanloot >>

Any ruling on what happens to it in anti-magic fields ? Since its not an artifact, does it just become a black beachball ?

The only magical thing about it is the stabilizing magic field, so this is what I think

run

the universe is over

you are cooked

RUn