Mod | Save | ||
---|---|---|---|
STR | 10 | +0 | +0 |
DEX | 14 | +2 | +2 |
CON | 12 | +1 | +1 |
Mod | Save | ||
---|---|---|---|
INT | 20 | +5 | +9 |
WIS | 15 | +2 | +6 |
CHA | 16 | +3 | +3 |
Magic Resistance. The archmage has Advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.
Multiattack. The archmage makes four Arcane Burst attacks.
Arcane Burst. Melee or Ranged Attack Roll: +9, reach 5 ft. or range 150 ft. Hit: 27 (4d10 + 5) Force damage.
Spellcasting. The archmage casts one of the following spells, using Intelligence as the spellcasting ability (spell save DC 17):
At Will: Detect Magic, Detect Thoughts, Disguise Self, Invisibility, Light, Mage Armor (included in AC), Mage Hand, Prestidigitation
2/Day Each: Fly, Lightning Bolt (level 7 version)
1/Day Each: Cone of Cold (level 9 version), Mind Blank (cast before combat), Scrying, Teleport
Misty Step (3/Day). The mage casts Misty Step, using the same spellcasting ability as Spellcasting.
Protective Magic (3/Day). The archmage casts Counterspell or Shield in response to the spell’s trigger, using the same spellcasting ability as Spellcasting.
I'm glad they simplified things for DMs who have never played a spell caster before, and gave them basic spell attacks against groups that abuse Silence/Counterspell/Grapple against anything in robes. Specifically that they no longer rely on the flowchart of Timestop > Globe of Invulnerability > Mirror Image > Fire Shield just to live long enough to successfully cast an offensive spell.
That said if you use a 9th level spell to cast Cone of Cold it begs the question: is your Intelligence really a 20?
Mage Armor seems pointless if AC isn't being properly reflected.
Why the hell does this thing out damage a LICH???? like if you want to make all spellcaster NPCs mega powerful glass cannons fine, I can homebrew them to still be actual spellcasters so whatever, but this thing is doing over 100 damage a round at CR12 and a LICH! at CR21 is only doing 93????? if you are going to make NPC spellcasters just use an overpowered cantrip at least be consistent. As it is this thing is a terrifying opponent, and honestly I appreciate that, though just having spell slots and spamming chain lightning is still better damage than this which is funny to me. I need someone to explain how they are calculating the CR for spellcasters in this new method, because by all metrics this thing is frankly more dangerous than a Lich, it makes more attacks, for some reason has a 30 foot longer range with that attack than the lich, and this has magic resistance and the Lich doesn't. fun fact, if this guy wins initiative and rolls just 3 damage higher than his average he would actually beat the CR21 lich if they started at 120 foot range, because the Lich has shorter range and his legendary action to do damage is to close range at just 20 feet to ever be used before the Lich dies. So yeah, if you want to be an almighty wizard just remember, becoming a Lich somehow means your attacks have less range and you get 1 less attack, and you get some legendary resistance instead of straight magic resistance so hopefully you only have to make 4 saving throws in a day, better off using clone to live forever instead.
I know that we got rid of the actually casting spells part of spellcasters, and while I think its sad as a DM i homebrew basically every spellcaster anyways so I don't really care. I just wish they would be consistent, because the fact that becoming a lich somehow makes a spellcaster weak seems completely ridiculous, not to mention that this guy who is 9 CR lower is arguably more dangerous. And just doubling health really doesn't matter if this is being used by an inexperienced DM. If the party gets to melee with this guy or a Lich, they are still screwed. A level 5 paladin or ranger can hit 4 attacks per round and add bonus damage to all attacks with hunters mark, so 4 level 5s that win initiative will still possibly beat this guy just as easily as they did the 2014 version because now players hit for WAY MORE DAMAGE than they did back then. I will agree that they are now easier to run at least in theory, but the balance is completely messed up.
EDIT: also what the hell is this things AC??? how is it 17? the Death Knight, a literal plate armor wearing knight who is CR17 has only 199 health and 20 AC, so this so called "Glass Cannon" has almost as much health, and because the AC seems to be calculated wrong plus uses of the Shield spell the archmage also has an effective AC of 22. This thing is more tanky than an actual freaking Death Knight, hits harder, and is somehow 5 CR lower........
sooo stupid question but since the Misty step doesn't take a spell slot does that mean this guy can cast both misty step and cone of cold in the same turn, since they aren't treating NPC spellcasters like player casters anymore?
One Spell with a Spell Slot per Turn
On a turn, you can expend only one spell slot to cast a spell. This rule means you can’t, for example, cast a spell with a spell slot using the Magic action and another one using a Bonus Action on the same turn.
Based on this wording, since no spell slot is ever used then it should work correct?
The Archmage doesn't out damage the Lich...
Lich damage is 146 to 196 per round.
Eldritch Burst x3 is 93 damage, then Disrupt Life x1 is 31, and Deathly Teleport x2 is another 22 giving you 146
If you replace the first of the three Eldritch Burst attacks with a successful Paralyzing Touch then the other two Eldritch Bursts at melee range automatically crit giving a total damage 196
Lich also has 315 HP, Legendary Resistance x5, AC 25 with Shield, and it has CON save proficiency. Range differences is a non issue because you are going to fight a Lich in the confines of their lair on their terms.
Yes. The Mage, Archmage, and Lich can use the Spellcasting action to cast a soell and then use the Misty Step bonus action and additionally use the Protective Magic (Shield/Counterspell) all on their turn. Meaning they can cast a spell and teleport and use a Counterspell to counter a player who attempts to use Counterspell on them.
This can be inferred to be intended as it is the same situation with Iggwilv the Witch-Queen from 2020 where she was given Fey Step and Negate Spell as unique bonus action/reactions that are "not spells" and would fall outside the 1 leveler spell per turn limit--except this was before Counterspell was changed and before the one spell *slot* per turn limit existed.
So first of all I meant in a 1 on 1 fight the archmage out does the Lich, since in 1 on 1 the lich only gets 1 legendary action and that also means that range becomes super important since he cannot teleport and use disrupt life, also Archmage gets misty step to ensure he has distance.
As for fighting a party the legendary actions rely on getting up close, something the lich would really not like to do. 25 AC is impressive for sure, but slap on a robe of the archmage and tada, the archmage basically ties the lich for AC and doesn't have a ton of extra weaknesses for being undead. My point is less that the Archmage is overpowered, though it somewhat is, and more that the Lich is frankly underpowered. one of the two is a thing, the question is whether the lich or the archmage is the issue. Sure, if you fight in the lair it is immensely powerful, but if you are fighting in the lair I would assume you knew the battle was coming, had prep time, and frankly as a Lich I would want my lair to be freaking huge to keep teleporting away from the damn paladins trying to smite me so range does become a factor. and outside the Lair, it gets even worse. generally speaking I would rather have advantage since at high levels its super easy to burn through 4 legendary resistances. Hell if you have a monk in the party you could make the lich burn all 4 in a single turn potentially, so I would like magic resistance back or at least turn resistance. Or maybe let the lich have all the condition immunities of the Demilich so it never worries about anything but spells anyways.
As for the Archmage itself, I honestly cannot figure out why it has such insane damage. At level 12 very few PCs can survive 104 damage, if any at all. This thing is a walking TPK for any part of 3 or less if the Archmage wins initiative. He will literally kill 1 player per round, and maybe even 2 or 3 if he high rolls and a lot of the party is squishy casters. Actually I think it downs anything short of a barbarian with a CON over 19 or some feat that boosts HP. This guy out damages the Arch-hag, potentially the Lich as I pointed out, and without legendary actions almost anything below CR19 in the new manual. Adult dragons even with legendary actions cannot do this much damage unless in their own lair for extra bonus actions. Since no other spell caster has 4 attacks, is this guy meant to only have 3 and its a miss print or did they just randomly decide to give this CR12 one of the highest damage outputs in the entire game? Also this thing is not in any way a glass cannon, it has the same HP almost as the Death Knight which isn't meant as a glass cannon. This also has almost the same HP as the Erinyes, a CR12 which again is not a glass cannon. This thing has the attack of a glass cannon but doesn't have the fragility of one, if anything it is incredibly tanky for CR12 with the shield spell giving it an effective AC of 22 and advantage on all saving throws.
Also any idea why the AC is somehow 17? because I cannot figure out how that math works for the life of me.
"Slap a Robe of the Archmage". It... doesn't change the Archmage AC....
Also, initiative difference is huge, if starting at 120feet (Or even 500...) Lich casts Dimension Door, Counterspell the Misty Step of the Archmage (Archmage needs a 19 to pass the save), then the Archmage is just done. I can guarantee the Lich wins that 1vs1 90% of the time
My bad, I saw 17 AC and assumed that mean +4 dex which is the only way it should have 17 AC. So if it had +4 dex then Robe of the Archmagi would have give 19 AC only 1 lower than the Lich. That is more to do with them screwing up the stats since it says mage armor, so if mage armor is a +3 and robe of the Archmagi is a +5 that means that the 17 AC would become 19. My apologies for assuming that WOTC did their own math correctly so I didn't have to check their work before citing to it. Also, the entire difference in their initiative is just CR difference, one is high CR therefore higher Proficiency and auto expertise, if I made Archmage a CR21 but changed no stat other than the proficiency bonus he would be just 1 Initiative lower than Lich and have the exact same to hit bonus. If I just made Archmage a Cr21, and said it gains 3 legendary actions that do nothing but use its attack, it wins every single time it wins initiative which would be roughly 50% of the time. funny enough the archmage makes more attacks with 4 to the Liches 3 so I could actually just give the Archmage only 2 legendary actions and he would still have the higher damage. On the brightside I guess this means that becoming a legendary creature means you gain 10 CR roughly, so at least it helps understand how they did CR since they didn't give us a guideline for homebrewing unlike in 2014. And again, I now have to ask how is this things AC 17? is the AC wrong or is the DEX score wrong, anyone know?
Once again, doesn't matter. Archmage doesn't have Expertise in Initiative like the Lich does. Dimension Door, wait for the Archmage to do the one turn it can, then stun-lock it by paralyzing it automatically (Archmage needs a 19 on the save to succeed)
As for the AC, it has a magical bonus of +2. Don't know where it comes from, but it's there. Just like the Lich has 20 AC yet not +10 to Dex
High CR automaticly gives expertise in initiative in this new manual, so like I said its still a 50/50. I will give you the stun lock, so yes that will give the lich the win. the AC issue is just lovely, so I guess its considered natural armor then with the magical +2 and just like the Cultist Hierophant the Mage armor included in the AC is just a misprint.
Edit* okay the Initiative is also messed up, Dex is +2 and PB is +4 how is Initiative 7?? This entire thing has stat issues, so I am honestly leaning towards the 4 attacks being a miss print and it was just supposed to be 3 attacks like every other spellcaster gets, since everything else on the damn thing is apparently messed up.
The whole "who would win in a fight" arguments are pointless. They ignore the complexities of real play and have no probative value. From a fair reading of each monster's stat block, the Lich will almost always defeat an Archmage in a straight fight, all else equal (also, any creature that only rolls low will almost certainly lose). Does that even mean anything? No.
Archmages have always been deadly (they didn't have to cast Time Stop; they could have cast Cone of Cold at 9th level instead). They're no deadlier. Recognize also that healing has been increased in this edition, so players can deal with high damage more easily than in 5e.
This entire discussion is based on an extremely bad faith reading both both the Archmage and Lich stat blocks. I welcome you to review these monsters, and rather than look for things to dislike, look at all the possibilities these stat blocks present.
Even if this does more damage to a single target then a Lich who cares. It's like focussing on a narrow aspect of a creature. A Lich gets way better defenses (especially saving throws) and initiative, more spells, Legendary actions, etc.
People overlook how bad the Strength, Dex and Con saves of this and the Mage statblock are. They have some pretty glaring weaknesses that can be exploited.
Initiative should probably be +6 (16) instead (+2 dex, +4 proficiency).
A DM that dont know how a spellcaster work shouldnt be a DM. You need to know how your players PC work before knowing how any creatures work. The thing that was cool and unique about archmage is it could be used for an intro to the wizard of what you could become once stronger. I really liked those type of humanoids really close to PC, so players could actually compare to them.
Now, its instead just a "I cast Piew Piew prepare to meet god" with negative level of flavor.
High INT answer
I don't like how much of a one man army these guys are now. That multi attack is disgusting. Why do they have more DPR than, Storm Giants? I will definitely be lowering the amount of attacks, no big deal.
Fake, no fireball. Real Wizards upcast Fireball at level 9