Also I do realize that i can manually override but as it has been pointed out before in the above thread that is just a meager work around for an issue that shouldn't be hard to fix.
Thanks in advance for any positive input on the issue.
As always, put a link to your character's URL so the mods can look at it.
In order for Beyond to use the Monk's AC calculation, the Monk's AC calculation must be higher than the Tortle's AC calculation. Also make sure the character is not wielding any shields nor armor.
I can recreate this. Tortle also still doesn't work with bracers of defense or barbarian unarmored defence (shield and plate still change AC, only unarmored AC can't overwrite it).
Bracers of Defense work fine on a Tortle. The only issue is interference between Tortle's Natural Armor and Monk/Barbarian Unarmed Defense, due to DEX being ignored in general for Tortle AC calculations, not just for their shell. It's a current limitation of the system.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Bracers of Defense work fine on a Tortle. The only issue is interference between Tortle's Natural Armor and Monk/Barbarian Unarmed Defense, due to DEX being ignored in general for Tortle AC calculations, not just for their shell. It's a current limitation of the system.
The problem is that Tortle Unarmored AC calculations ignore Dex, so your Monk would need to have Wis of +8 or more to see any change in their Unarmored Defense.
Other than having to customize the AC value, a possible workaround is to homebrew a personal magic item (call it "Tortle Monk Unarmored Defense") with the following modifier:
Set -> Unarmored Armor Class, Ability Score: WIS, Fixed Value: 5 (or your Tortle Monk's DEX modifier, update as needed)
The problem is that Tortle Unarmored AC calculations ignore Dex, so your Monk would need to have Wis of +8 or more to see any change in their Unarmored Defense.
Other than having to customize the AC value, a possible workaround is to homebrew a personal magic item (call it "Tortle Monk Unarmored Defense") with the following modifier:
Set -> Unarmored Armor Class, Ability Score: WIS, Fixed Value: 5 (or your Tortle Monk's DEX modifier, update as needed)
That shouldn’t be an issue since they should be two distinct AC calculations, one at a flat 17, the other with the usual 10+Dex+Wis (or Con for Barbs). However, as you stated, the Tortle has that “Ignore” Modifier mucking things up for both calculations since Unarmored Defense only adds the additional Ability mod because every other race automatically includes Dex. It might be simpler to homebrew the Tortle race without that Modifier for any Monk or Barbarian PCs. (Customizing the AC with an Override of 17 for those weird edge case scenarios in which Unarmored Defense is somehow negated would seem like less remembering would be required. 🤷♂️
The problem is that Tortle Unarmored AC calculations ignore Dex, so your Monk would need to have Wis of +8 or more to see any change in their Unarmored Defense.
Other than having to customize the AC value, a possible workaround is to homebrew a personal magic item (call it "Tortle Monk Unarmored Defense") with the following modifier:
Set -> Unarmored Armor Class, Ability Score: WIS, Fixed Value: 5 (or your Tortle Monk's DEX modifier, update as needed)
That shouldn’t be an issue since they should be two distinct AC calculations, one at a flat 17, the other with the usual 10+Dex+Wis (or Con for Barbs). However, as you stated, the Tortle has that “Ignore” Modifier mucking things up for both calculations since Unarmored Defense only adds the additional Ability mod because every other race automatically includes Dex. It might be simpler to homebrew the Tortle race without that Modifier for any Monk or Barbarian PCs. (Customizing the AC with an Override of 17 for those weird edge case scenarios in which Unarmored Defense is somehow negated would seem like less remembering would be required. 🤷♂️
I could've sworn the Tortle race used to use Minimum Base Armor: 17, at one point. I imagine that that ran into problems since you could give your Tortle with +2 DEX a set of Medium armor, or even just Heavy armor, that brought them above AC 17. (Tortles really need a "NO ARMOR ALLOWED" modifier more than anything else...)
I don’t actually own the Tortle package, so I can’t use one as a template to see how it ticks. (And I have access to it so I’m not gonna buy it just for one piece of “exploratory dissection.”) If anyone does have it and would be so kind as to use it as a template and confirm the Modifiers it uses, I would greatly appreciate it.
I don’t actually own the Tortle package, so I can’t use one as a template to see how it ticks. (And I have access to it so I’m not gonna buy it just for one piece of “exploratory dissection.”) If anyone does have it and would be so kind as to use it as a template and confirm the Modifiers it uses, I would greatly appreciate it.
Set - Unarmored Armor Class: 7
Set - AC Max Dex Modifier: 0
Ignore - Unarmored Dex AC Bonus
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
I don’t actually own the Tortle package, so I can’t use one as a template to see how it ticks. (And I have access to it so I’m not gonna buy it just for one piece of “exploratory dissection.”) If anyone does have it and would be so kind as to use it as a template and confirm the Modifiers it uses, I would greatly appreciate it.
Set - Unarmored Armor Class: 7
Set - AC Max Dex Modifier: 0
Ignore - Unarmored Dex AC Bonus
Thanks. Much obliged.
I wonder, if that middle modifier setting the Max Dex AC Bonus to 0 were removed, what does it do to a character sheet? If that modifier isn’t actually accomplishing anything to make the Tortle work the way it is supposed to work, then why is it there? I might be missing something Tortle specific, but why double down by both setting that number to 0, and ignoring it too? The Tortle’s Natural Armor Trait says that their Dex mod doesn’t get added to the shell, and they can obviously not use amor so there’s no technical*1 reason I can think of to worry about their “Armored Dex bonus to AC.”
So why did they use both Modifiers?!? Tis a puzzlement. Don’t get me wrong, both of those modifiers should be interfering with Unarmored Defense if they are working correctly. So it’s not like removing it would fix anything I can imagine. But the fewer extraneous Modifiers anything adds to a character sheet, the better. I mean, ya kn’atamen?
Honestly, you could more accurately represent Natural Armor on your character sheet by homebrewing the Tortle to delete those thee Modifiers and slapping a suite of Modified splint as a magic item onto the sheet, equipping it, and then hurrying it in a container designed for convenience hacks. Think about it, make it weightless and drop the Str prerequisites and the disadvantage to [skill]Stealth[/akill]. Bingo-bingo, all you gotta do left is rename it to “Tortle Shell” add the snippet from the racial trait in as the description, and hit [SAVE CHANGES].
As to the “No Armor Allowed” modifier, meh. What I think they should consider is to add a “Natural Armor” designation separate from “Unarmored.” Kinda like how Natural Weapons have a different designation from Unarmed Strikes. Either that or make it something non-Modifier related entirely and handle it with either the trait name (like Spellcasting/Pact Magic & Hex Warrior were done), or else whatever invisible shenanigans they pulled with the Metamagic Adept feat. (Or was it the Warlock one? Whichever. 🤷♂️) Either of those solutions should work I would imagine. What do you think?
*Even if there is no digital mechanism to prevent a player from putting armor on their Tortle, so what? People played D&D for the last quarter of the last century with pencil and paper, and still do now almost a quarter way into this century too. I’m pretty sure the Honor system and a certain modicum of personal responsibility will still suffice by and large.
The Natural Armor of a Tortle (AC 17) is not appropriately overridden by the unarmored defens of the monk.
I have been reading this thread https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/bugs-support/9729-tortle-monk-ac-should-use-unarmored-defense but it is marked resolved and I do not understand why since the issue persists. Also it says we should choose one form of calculating AC but there is no Beyond feature that allows for it or is there?
Also I do realize that i can manually override but as it has been pointed out before in the above thread that is just a meager work around for an issue that shouldn't be hard to fix.
Thanks in advance for any positive input on the issue.
As always, put a link to your character's URL so the mods can look at it.
In order for Beyond to use the Monk's AC calculation, the Monk's AC calculation must be higher than the Tortle's AC calculation. Also make sure the character is not wielding any shields nor armor.
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I can recreate this. Tortle also still doesn't work with
bracers of defense orbarbarian unarmored defence (shield and plate still change AC, only unarmored AC can't overwrite it).[Edit]Item works fine if you attune it...
Bracers of Defense work fine on a Tortle. The only issue is interference between Tortle's Natural Armor and Monk/Barbarian Unarmed Defense, due to DEX being ignored in general for Tortle AC calculations, not just for their shell. It's a current limitation of the system.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Yeah, they do. That was a user error on my end.
The problem is that Tortle Unarmored AC calculations ignore Dex, so your Monk would need to have Wis of +8 or more to see any change in their Unarmored Defense.
Other than having to customize the AC value, a possible workaround is to homebrew a personal magic item (call it "Tortle Monk Unarmored Defense") with the following modifier:
Set -> Unarmored Armor Class, Ability Score: WIS, Fixed Value: 5 (or your Tortle Monk's DEX modifier, update as needed)
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
That shouldn’t be an issue since they should be two distinct AC calculations, one at a flat 17, the other with the usual 10+Dex+Wis (or Con for Barbs). However, as you stated, the Tortle has that “Ignore” Modifier mucking things up for both calculations since Unarmored Defense only adds the additional Ability mod because every other race automatically includes Dex. It might be simpler to homebrew the Tortle race without that Modifier for any Monk or Barbarian PCs. (Customizing the AC with an Override of 17 for those weird edge case scenarios in which Unarmored Defense is somehow negated would seem like less remembering would be required. 🤷♂️
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I could've sworn the Tortle race used to use Minimum Base Armor: 17, at one point. I imagine that that ran into problems since you could give your Tortle with +2 DEX a set of Medium armor, or even just Heavy armor, that brought them above AC 17. (Tortles really need a "NO ARMOR ALLOWED" modifier more than anything else...)
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
I don’t actually own the Tortle package, so I can’t use one as a template to see how it ticks. (And I have access to it so I’m not gonna buy it just for one piece of “exploratory dissection.”) If anyone does have it and would be so kind as to use it as a template and confirm the Modifiers it uses, I would greatly appreciate it.
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Set - Unarmored Armor Class: 7
Set - AC Max Dex Modifier: 0
Ignore - Unarmored Dex AC Bonus
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Thanks. Much obliged.
I wonder, if that middle modifier setting the Max Dex AC Bonus to 0 were removed, what does it do to a character sheet? If that modifier isn’t actually accomplishing anything to make the Tortle work the way it is supposed to work, then why is it there? I might be missing something Tortle specific, but why double down by both setting that number to 0, and ignoring it too? The Tortle’s Natural Armor Trait says that their Dex mod doesn’t get added to the shell, and they can obviously not use amor so there’s no technical*1 reason I can think of to worry about their “Armored Dex bonus to AC.”
So why did they use both Modifiers?!? Tis a puzzlement. Don’t get me wrong, both of those modifiers should be interfering with Unarmored Defense if they are working correctly. So it’s not like removing it would fix anything I can imagine. But the fewer extraneous Modifiers anything adds to a character sheet, the better. I mean, ya kn’atamen?
Honestly, you could more accurately represent Natural Armor on your character sheet by homebrewing the Tortle to delete those thee Modifiers and slapping a suite of Modified splint as a magic item onto the sheet, equipping it, and then hurrying it in a container designed for convenience hacks. Think about it, make it weightless and drop the Str prerequisites and the disadvantage to [skill]Stealth[/akill]. Bingo-bingo, all you gotta do left is rename it to “Tortle Shell” add the snippet from the racial trait in as the description, and hit [SAVE CHANGES].
As to the “No Armor Allowed” modifier, meh. What I think they should consider is to add a “Natural Armor” designation separate from “Unarmored.” Kinda like how Natural Weapons have a different designation from Unarmed Strikes. Either that or make it something non-Modifier related entirely and handle it with either the trait name (like Spellcasting/Pact Magic & Hex Warrior were done), or else whatever invisible shenanigans they pulled with the Metamagic Adept feat. (Or was it the Warlock one? Whichever. 🤷♂️) Either of those solutions should work I would imagine. What do you think?
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting