Late jumping into this conversation but I get that it seems to fit a theme, although I don’t really think of the Alchemist as a “mad scientist” though it can be RP’d that way, But what I don’t feel fits is after 20 levels they still can’t quite figure out how to consistently make a potion on purpose without spending a spell slot. Especially for a LR feature.
They can make potions on purpose without spending spell slots; they are proficient with alchemist's supplies.
I mean, sure? But a level 1 Artificer without any subclass can also do the same, as can an Artificer who has gone into any of the other three subclasses, if they chose Alchemist's Supplies as one of their tool proficiencies.
I also don't really think of the Alchemist archetype as being a mad scientist/wild magic type, but rather a chemist who uses magic as one of the ingredients. So, repeatable and careful.
The idea of a Wild Magic Alchemist with a d20 or d100 randomizer table does sound fun as homebrew, but I kind of agree that the d6 table, and especially because the potions only last until you take a long rest, is underwhelming. Or, if the potions were permanent or lasted until you ran out of flasks, say, that would be more fun for me, in terms of thinking of it as a potion. Maybe this kind of potion uses a special magic flask and you have your intelligence modifier + proficiency bonus worth of these special flasks.
As it stands, the best way to think of it, I suppose, is 6 free spells known, plus maybe one of your spells wouldn't take a spell slot to cast.
Re Alchemist: I Homebrew it that your Alchemist got a number of Charges equal to his PB and that creating a random potion takes 1 charge and a selected one takes 2 charges. You could even introduce more powerful potions bases on higher charges.
I've already explained this, multiple times. In this thread. Today.
Artillerist gets free summon of their cannon, they get to choose instead of rolling 1d3, then spends spell slot to re-summon additional cannons. I just want that parity with that for the Alchemist.
1d6 is not a satisfying representation of Experimentation. It's just an obstacle in the way. An experiment is repeatable without being more expensive the 2nd time. An experiment that only has 6 possible outcomes all suspiciously beneficial becomes quickly pointless to run on repeat, every day. There's nothing to learn about running whatever experiment the 1d6 from Experimental Elixir represents.
If they want to make a more mechanically satisfying version of Experimental Elixir. I'm all for it, but a single 1d6 roll after a long rest is NOT it.
The artillerist's cannon does not have nearly the utility of the elixir., so I don't think that comparison holds water. It does damage or doles out temp HP, that's it.
So your argument here then is... because the utility of the elixir is greater than the utility of the cannon, that justifies the Alchemist's access to their subclass feature being different.
I.E. The free elixir at the end of a long rest being determined by 1d6 instead of chosen is a balancing measure. Because otherwise the Alchemist would be overpowered?
Or are you just correcting my analogies and comparisons because they aren't flawless? Well it's fine. At this point I've made my points abundantly clear. I have nothing further to add.
I'd say it's role as a utility half caster is fairly impaired. Alchemist, which leans the most into its "jack of all trades/support" ethos is the most sparse of all the subclasses, while the "artificer but tank" or the "artificer but blaster" or "artificer but tank again" subclasses seem much more robust.
I can't tell if the base class needs more support features, or if I just wish the alchemist was better designed.
I agree with this and it is why I came here. My Alchemist is probably the best character I've ever played in 20+ years of D&D but Alchemist is a very weak subclass. The elixirs don't offer anything really. The only real thing that is useful is the extra healing with the tools. I'll be honest I only played the class for the RP flavor and it only really worked because I took the Poisoner Feat, Alchemist Supplies, and an Herbalism Kit along with Brewer and Glassblowing Tools just to round it all off.
So your argument here then is... because the utility of the elixir is greater than the utility of the cannon, that justifies the Alchemist's access to their subclass feature being different.
Yes, that's how balance works. Especially since (a) the elixir lasts all day once created rather than 1 hour like the cannon and (b) the free elixirs scale up as you level. The random nature of the free one(s) offsets those inherent advantages.
Re Alchemist: I Homebrew it that your Alchemist got a number of Charges equal to his PB and that creating a random potion takes 1 charge and a selected one takes 2 charges. You could even introduce more powerful potions bases on higher charges.
I'd actually be okay with something like this too. Or each spell slot spent gives you one specific or two randoms etc.
So your argument here then is... because the utility of the elixir is greater than the utility of the cannon, that justifies the Alchemist's access to their subclass feature being different.
Yes, that's how balance works. Especially since (a) the elixir lasts all day once created rather than 1 hour like the cannon and (b) the free elixirs scale up as you level. The random nature of the free one(s) offsets those inherent advantages.
Re Alchemist: I Homebrew it that your Alchemist got a number of Charges equal to his PB and that creating a random potion takes 1 charge and a selected one takes 2 charges. You could even introduce more powerful potions bases on higher charges.
I'd actually be okay with something like this too. Or each spell slot spent gives you one specific or two randoms etc.
The free elixirs don't level you just get extras. By the time you can make extra without spending a spell slot they are almost unviable.
Healing - doesn't scale like Healing Word does and so it is out the door as soon as you get it.
Swiftness - Doesn't prevent opportunity attacks like Kinetic Jaunt so it also is a waste.
Resilience - There are a billion spells that do more than +1 AC and several available at level 3 also.
Boldness - Doesn't cover multiple people like Bless does.
Flight - Isn't as fast as Fly nor can it target multiple people. It is useful for two levels and then isn't.
Transformation - It is just Alter Self but worse because it is 10 min instead of an hour.
I love my Alchemist and will never play another class now because I have the best character in 20+ years of playing I have ever had but the Elixirs are horrible. And.... they take a full action to quaff. So there goes action economy also. They only advantage is they are potions and bypass Wild Magic or can be used when the spell slots are gone, but you cannot make enough for them to really replace a long rest to recover slots. Plus, they are random so you cannot plan on having a particular one when you need it. I ended up crafting potions during my downtime to use and selling my Elixirs to NPCs instead as a grift.
I like the PB idea and they should be a bonus action to drink one.
The free elixirs don't level you just get extras. By the time you can make extra without spending a spell slot they are almost unviable.
I know that, I meant they scale in quantity of free ones you get. That the elixirs effects themselves don't scale is regrettable, but since they only cost a 1st-level slot anyway that's fine, it's not like the cost is going up. As you level, 1st-level slots get less and less valuable.
The question of whether elixirs should become more powerful as you level is a different question than whether a randomness element makes sense for the subclass.
The free elixirs don't level you just get extras. By the time you can make extra without spending a spell slot they are almost unviable.
I know that, I meant they scale in quantity of free ones you get. That the elixirs effects themselves don't scale is regrettable, but since they only cost a 1st-level slot anyway that's fine, it's not like the cost is going up. As you level, 1st-level slots get less and less valuable.
The question of whether elixirs should become more powerful as you level is a different question than whether a randomness element makes sense for the subclass.
The two are different questions, but both stem from the overquestion of "Is the Alchemist weak?" So far, your defense of it has been: a) No, because one of the results is situationally useful briefly, potentially 2) No, because they can make potions and stuff that anyone has access to iii) No, random thematically totally fits the class, you guys! But don't ask if the effects need to scale, because now we're talking about random effects.
So why would you be open, exactly, to Bhurealea's idea if everything is so fine and dandy?
Although I don’t care for the randomness of the elixir I wonder if it would be a good change to either:
1. At 6th level you get two elixirs. You can pick one and roll for one. And at 15th level you get three elixirs and you pick two and roll for one.
or
2. at a certain level, maybe added to their 9th level feature, a Improved Experimental Elixir list with upgraded and/or new options that are better scaled for the higher tiers. And you roll.
or
3. a combination of 1 and 2. New table and can pick some, roll some.
The free elixirs don't level you just get extras. By the time you can make extra without spending a spell slot they are almost unviable.
I know that, I meant they scale in quantity of free ones you get. That the elixirs effects themselves don't scale is regrettable, but since they only cost a 1st-level slot anyway that's fine, it's not like the cost is going up. As you level, 1st-level slots get less and less valuable.
The question of whether elixirs should become more powerful as you level is a different question than whether a randomness element makes sense for the subclass.
The two are different questions, but both stem from the overquestion of "Is the Alchemist weak?" So far, your defense of it has been: a) No, because one of the results is situationally useful briefly, potentially 2) No, because they can make potions and stuff that anyone has access to iii) No, random thematically totally fits the class, you guys! But don't ask if the effects need to scale, because now we're talking about random effects.
So why would you be open, exactly, to Bhurealea's idea if everything is so fine and dandy?
Yeah, level 1 spells fall out of use as you level because they become less useful...
It might be better if they made Alchemist its own class and then gave it Schools like Wizards have but for different potions types like a Poisoner gets a bunch of different poisons as elixirs and healers get Healing potions, etc.
Or
Replace them with something useful like automatically getting Alchemist Fire, Tanglefoot Bags (this need to make a come back), Acid etc. I used these mundane Alchemical items way more often than the Elixirs.
There was so much wasted potential with the Alchemist subclass. The Artifacts from the class are what carry the entire subclass.
When you reach 10th level, you achieve a profound understanding of how to use and make magic items:
You can attune to up to four magic items at once.
If you craft a magic item with a rarity of common or uncommon, it takes you a quarter of the normal time, and it costs you half as much of the usual gold.
why does the crafting part of this never get better? a 20th level artificer crafts common/uncommon items just as fast as a 10th level one but if they both tried to make a rare item boom its still the same amount of time! at no point does this get better and it drives me up the wall so much! it would fit perfect in 18th level
Magic Item Master
Starting at 18th level, you can attune to up to six magic items at once.
its so empty! you could easily add something like
If you craft a magic item with a rarity of rare or very rare, it takes you a quarter of the normal time, and it costs you half as much of the usual gold.
At 11th level, you learn how to store a spell in an object. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one simple or martial weapon or one item that you can use as a spellcasting focus, and you store a spell in it, choosing a 1st- or 2nd-level spell from the artificer spell list that requires 1 action to cast (you needn’t have it prepared).
While holding the object, a creature can take an action to produce the spell’s effect from it, using your spellcasting ability modifier. If the spell requires concentration, the creature must concentrate. The spell stays in the object until it’s been used a number of times equal to twice your Intelligence modifier (minimum of twice) or until you use this feature again to store a spell in an object.
this feature is great! love this feature tho i wish it came online just a little bit sooner at like 6th level but was changed to only holding your int mod amount of charges for a 1st level spell only then at 11th it becomes what the feature is right now then somewhere around 14th it can include bonus action spells too
Every eldritch cannon you create is more destructive:
The cannon’s damage rolls all increase by 1d8.
As an action, you can command the cannon to detonate if you are within 60 feet of it. Doing so destroys the cannon and forces each creature within 20 feet of it to make a Dexterity saving throw against your spell save DC, taking 3d8 force damage on a failed save or half as much damage on a successful one.
1. the cannon exploding is 100% the last thing you want to happen its pretty much just a force damage shatter 2. this would have been a good point for the flamethrower to get a range upgrade to 30ft cone (or less if people think thats to much) 3. force ballista push or damage could have been improved more or added a second shot 4. eh the temp HP gen is fine no problem with it
i know the best part about an artificer is making your own items and modding your SD or armor or cannons or whatever but you can just hope the DM will work with you and let you make balanced (depends per game) changes like that with tinkering. some DMs run the class by the book and thats it (which is a fine way to play to everyone is different and thats why dnd is for everyone)
I've only played an artillerist, but there are a few things I would like to see altered to make it more interesting. Not necessarily playable, but interesting.
1) Mending should be a given cantrip, and not part of the few you have to choose from.
2) I think the homonculus should be a class feature, not a use of the few infusions you have. But then add in a couple of infusions for specific characteristics that you could add. For example, the force attack could be an infusion, or maybe an enhanced stealth package, or a sensor-bot (sound and sight relayed back to the artificer). Allow for a bit of customization. For reference, I took magic-initiate Wizard, and then Find Familiar. Now my weasel rides around inside the 'cockpit' of the homonculus and acts as an armored scout so I can see what it sees. Cheese, I know.
3) I would prefer an elemental cannon rather than a fire cannon. Allow me to choose from acid, fire, cold, or thunder (shock).
I've only played an artillerist, but there are a few things I would like to see altered to make it more interesting. Not necessarily playable, but interesting.
1) Mending should be a given cantrip, and not part of the few you have to choose from.
2) I think the homonculus should be a class feature, not a use of the few infusions you have. But then add in a couple of infusions for specific characteristics that you could add. For example, the force attack could be an infusion, or maybe an enhanced stealth package, or a sensor-bot (sound and sight relayed back to the artificer). Allow for a bit of customization. For reference, I took magic-initiate Wizard, and then Find Familiar. Now my weasel rides around inside the 'cockpit' of the homonculus and acts as an armored scout so I can see what it sees. Cheese, I know.
3) I would prefer an elemental cannon rather than a fire cannon. Allow me to choose from acid, fire, cold, or thunder (shock).
1) This does sound logical for an Artificer
2) Not entirely convinced the homunculus needs to be a general class feature. Its a relatively complex infusion and some people may just not want a pet to keep track of, though allowing some customisability for those that do would be good. Maybe one 'feature' for free and you can use an additional infusion for some greater feature? Actually, a "Bio-engineer" subclass that has the homunculus as a feature and allows for even more customisability sounds fun (perhaps a homunculus you can "wear" like a Venom suit)!
3) Absolutely. Fire is one of the most resisted elements (up there with poison). Needs some versatility here.
I've only played an artillerist, but there are a few things I would like to see altered to make it more interesting. Not necessarily playable, but interesting.
1) Mending should be a given cantrip, and not part of the few you have to choose from.
2) I think the homonculus should be a class feature, not a use of the few infusions you have. But then add in a couple of infusions for specific characteristics that you could add. For example, the force attack could be an infusion, or maybe an enhanced stealth package, or a sensor-bot (sound and sight relayed back to the artificer). Allow for a bit of customization. For reference, I took magic-initiate Wizard, and then Find Familiar. Now my weasel rides around inside the 'cockpit' of the homonculus and acts as an armored scout so I can see what it sees. Cheese, I know.
3) I would prefer an elemental cannon rather than a fire cannon. Allow me to choose from acid, fire, cold, or thunder (shock).
I like all of that except the Homonculus. I wouldn't use it as an Alchemist. I know I can but I wouldn't and as a DM pets, followers, and charms can be very taxing on players. I mean I allow them but they really slow down games unless you're playing with vets and even then. Pets used to be automatic but they aren't anymore except for some subclasses I think due to the tendency they have to slow down combat and stuff.
In our in-between campaign I play a prince and I have hired guards. The only reason it was allowed is because as a DM I can juggle multiple characters quickly. And I have seen more than one table where followers etc are banned except for limited use or under the control of the DM just because they are a hassle and really only useful in the hands of experienced players.
The base artificer needs two buffs, both based on the class fantasy:
They need to 1/level create a permanent magic item
They need to be at least as good as a wizard at "artificer spells" like Magic Mouth, Continual Flame, and Wall of Stone. The spells that create things
Then there are the subclasses.
Battle Smith: Great. No notes (other possibly than adding Weapon Masteries)
Artillerist: Great in a dungeon crawling campaign. Not great in a wilderness campaign because the cannon only lasts an hour and an artillerist that either doesn't summon a cannon in combat or summons in the first round is a sad panda.
Armourer: Whyyyy can't you enchant both their special weapon and their armour at the same time before level 10?
Alchemist: Needs serious buffs to be the 'cleric artificer' it's trying to be
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I mean, sure? But a level 1 Artificer without any subclass can also do the same, as can an Artificer who has gone into any of the other three subclasses, if they chose Alchemist's Supplies as one of their tool proficiencies.
I also don't really think of the Alchemist archetype as being a mad scientist/wild magic type, but rather a chemist who uses magic as one of the ingredients. So, repeatable and careful.
The idea of a Wild Magic Alchemist with a d20 or d100 randomizer table does sound fun as homebrew, but I kind of agree that the d6 table, and especially because the potions only last until you take a long rest, is underwhelming. Or, if the potions were permanent or lasted until you ran out of flasks, say, that would be more fun for me, in terms of thinking of it as a potion. Maybe this kind of potion uses a special magic flask and you have your intelligence modifier + proficiency bonus worth of these special flasks.
As it stands, the best way to think of it, I suppose, is 6 free spells known, plus maybe one of your spells wouldn't take a spell slot to cast.
Re Alchemist: I Homebrew it that your Alchemist got a number of Charges equal to his PB and that creating a random potion takes 1 charge and a selected one takes 2 charges. You could even introduce more powerful potions bases on higher charges.
So your argument here then is... because the utility of the elixir is greater than the utility of the cannon, that justifies the Alchemist's access to their subclass feature being different.
I.E. The free elixir at the end of a long rest being determined by 1d6 instead of chosen is a balancing measure. Because otherwise the Alchemist would be overpowered?
Or are you just correcting my analogies and comparisons because they aren't flawless? Well it's fine. At this point I've made my points abundantly clear. I have nothing further to add.
I agree with this and it is why I came here. My Alchemist is probably the best character I've ever played in 20+ years of D&D but Alchemist is a very weak subclass. The elixirs don't offer anything really. The only real thing that is useful is the extra healing with the tools. I'll be honest I only played the class for the RP flavor and it only really worked because I took the Poisoner Feat, Alchemist Supplies, and an Herbalism Kit along with Brewer and Glassblowing Tools just to round it all off.
"Life is Cast by Random Dice"
Burn my candle twice.
I have done my life justice
Against random dice.
Yes, that's how balance works. Especially since (a) the elixir lasts all day once created rather than 1 hour like the cannon and (b) the free elixirs scale up as you level. The random nature of the free one(s) offsets those inherent advantages.
I'd actually be okay with something like this too. Or each spell slot spent gives you one specific or two randoms etc.
The free elixirs don't level you just get extras. By the time you can make extra without spending a spell slot they are almost unviable.
I love my Alchemist and will never play another class now because I have the best character in 20+ years of playing I have ever had but the Elixirs are horrible. And.... they take a full action to quaff. So there goes action economy also. They only advantage is they are potions and bypass Wild Magic or can be used when the spell slots are gone, but you cannot make enough for them to really replace a long rest to recover slots. Plus, they are random so you cannot plan on having a particular one when you need it. I ended up crafting potions during my downtime to use and selling my Elixirs to NPCs instead as a grift.
I like the PB idea and they should be a bonus action to drink one.
"Life is Cast by Random Dice"
Burn my candle twice.
I have done my life justice
Against random dice.
I know that, I meant they scale in quantity of free ones you get. That the elixirs effects themselves don't scale is regrettable, but since they only cost a 1st-level slot anyway that's fine, it's not like the cost is going up. As you level, 1st-level slots get less and less valuable.
The question of whether elixirs should become more powerful as you level is a different question than whether a randomness element makes sense for the subclass.
The two are different questions, but both stem from the overquestion of "Is the Alchemist weak?"
So far, your defense of it has been:
a) No, because one of the results is situationally useful briefly, potentially
2) No, because they can make potions and stuff that anyone has access to
iii) No, random thematically totally fits the class, you guys! But don't ask if the effects need to scale, because now we're talking about random effects.
So why would you be open, exactly, to Bhurealea's idea if everything is so fine and dandy?
its a small buff but artificers should be the ones with a D10 hit die. two subclasses get extra attack so why not you know?
Although I don’t care for the randomness of the elixir I wonder if it would be a good change to either:
1. At 6th level you get two elixirs. You can pick one and roll for one. And at 15th level you get three elixirs and you pick two and roll for one.
or
2. at a certain level, maybe added to their 9th level feature, a Improved Experimental Elixir list with upgraded and/or new options that are better scaled for the higher tiers. And you roll.
or
3. a combination of 1 and 2. New table and can pick some, roll some.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Yeah, level 1 spells fall out of use as you level because they become less useful...
It might be better if they made Alchemist its own class and then gave it Schools like Wizards have but for different potions types like a Poisoner gets a bunch of different poisons as elixirs and healers get Healing potions, etc.
Or
Replace them with something useful like automatically getting Alchemist Fire, Tanglefoot Bags (this need to make a come back), Acid etc. I used these mundane Alchemical items way more often than the Elixirs.
There was so much wasted potential with the Alchemist subclass. The Artifacts from the class are what carry the entire subclass.
"Life is Cast by Random Dice"
Burn my candle twice.
I have done my life justice
Against random dice.
Because his idea preserves the random element of the elixirs as an option. I thought that was pretty obvious.
Magic Item Adept
When you reach 10th level, you achieve a profound understanding of how to use and make magic items:
why does the crafting part of this never get better? a 20th level artificer crafts common/uncommon items just as fast as a 10th level one but if they both tried to make a rare item boom its still the same amount of time! at no point does this get better and it drives me up the wall so much! it would fit perfect in 18th level
Magic Item Master
Starting at 18th level, you can attune to up to six magic items at once.
its so empty! you could easily add something like
and it wouldnt be broken at all
Spell-Storing Item
At 11th level, you learn how to store a spell in an object. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one simple or martial weapon or one item that you can use as a spellcasting focus, and you store a spell in it, choosing a 1st- or 2nd-level spell from the artificer spell list that requires 1 action to cast (you needn’t have it prepared).
While holding the object, a creature can take an action to produce the spell’s effect from it, using your spellcasting ability modifier. If the spell requires concentration, the creature must concentrate. The spell stays in the object until it’s been used a number of times equal to twice your Intelligence modifier (minimum of twice) or until you use this feature again to store a spell in an object.
this feature is great! love this feature tho i wish it came online just a little bit sooner at like 6th level but was changed to only holding your int mod amount of charges for a 1st level spell only then at 11th it becomes what the feature is right now then somewhere around 14th it can include bonus action spells too
Explosive Cannon
9th-level Artillerist feature
Every eldritch cannon you create is more destructive:
1. the cannon exploding is 100% the last thing you want to happen its pretty much just a force damage shatter
2. this would have been a good point for the flamethrower to get a range upgrade to 30ft cone (or less if people think thats to much)
3. force ballista push or damage could have been improved more or added a second shot
4. eh the temp HP gen is fine no problem with it
i know the best part about an artificer is making your own items and modding your SD or armor or cannons or whatever but you can just hope the DM will work with you and let you make balanced (depends per game) changes like that with tinkering. some DMs run the class by the book and thats it (which is a fine way to play to everyone is different and thats why dnd is for everyone)
I've only played an artillerist, but there are a few things I would like to see altered to make it more interesting. Not necessarily playable, but interesting.
1) Mending should be a given cantrip, and not part of the few you have to choose from.
2) I think the homonculus should be a class feature, not a use of the few infusions you have. But then add in a couple of infusions for specific characteristics that you could add. For example, the force attack could be an infusion, or maybe an enhanced stealth package, or a sensor-bot (sound and sight relayed back to the artificer). Allow for a bit of customization. For reference, I took magic-initiate Wizard, and then Find Familiar. Now my weasel rides around inside the 'cockpit' of the homonculus and acts as an armored scout so I can see what it sees. Cheese, I know.
3) I would prefer an elemental cannon rather than a fire cannon. Allow me to choose from acid, fire, cold, or thunder (shock).
1) This does sound logical for an Artificer
2) Not entirely convinced the homunculus needs to be a general class feature. Its a relatively complex infusion and some people may just not want a pet to keep track of, though allowing some customisability for those that do would be good. Maybe one 'feature' for free and you can use an additional infusion for some greater feature? Actually, a "Bio-engineer" subclass that has the homunculus as a feature and allows for even more customisability sounds fun (perhaps a homunculus you can "wear" like a Venom suit)!
3) Absolutely. Fire is one of the most resisted elements (up there with poison). Needs some versatility here.
I like all of that except the Homonculus. I wouldn't use it as an Alchemist. I know I can but I wouldn't and as a DM pets, followers, and charms can be very taxing on players. I mean I allow them but they really slow down games unless you're playing with vets and even then. Pets used to be automatic but they aren't anymore except for some subclasses I think due to the tendency they have to slow down combat and stuff.
In our in-between campaign I play a prince and I have hired guards. The only reason it was allowed is because as a DM I can juggle multiple characters quickly. And I have seen more than one table where followers etc are banned except for limited use or under the control of the DM just because they are a hassle and really only useful in the hands of experienced players.
"Life is Cast by Random Dice"
Burn my candle twice.
I have done my life justice
Against random dice.
The base artificer needs two buffs, both based on the class fantasy:
Then there are the subclasses.
Battle Smith: Great. No notes (other possibly than adding Weapon Masteries)
Artillerist: Great in a dungeon crawling campaign. Not great in a wilderness campaign because the cannon only lasts an hour and an artillerist that either doesn't summon a cannon in combat or summons in the first round is a sad panda.
Armourer: Whyyyy can't you enchant both their special weapon and their armour at the same time before level 10?
Alchemist: Needs serious buffs to be the 'cleric artificer' it's trying to be